PLAYERS that irk you as a player??

[KleineVampir]

Hey guys... Alright, I got pissed off at my d&d session last night and I woke up pissed off about it still! I just can't get over it this time!

Alright, so I just want to say that my friends are usually really great friends but sometimes they totally piss me off and are annoying, and this is one of those times. So the DM and one of the players are brothers, both my friends for a long time. But I want to preface by saying they are brothers and sometimes they will give each other benefit of the doubt and stuff like that...they can be biased in whatever way suits them, especially the guy playing this character. Yes they are those sorts of people. May seem minor but I'm thinking it may be an important contextual detail in this case.

So this guy, who has been my friend for years and we generally get along, basically made the most annoying character of all time. I mean at least to me. I'm sure some other people here would be annoyed too though. I generally like him because he's a smart guy, but I guess I don't like the way he plays D&D sometimes because of the ways he tries to exploit every little thing about it, and go against the spirit of the game. Frankly, both of these brothers are high-functioning autistic kids, and the idea of "The spirit of the game" is totally lost on them. They just see the rules but they don't read between the lines or understand that D&D is meant to be played a certain way. They also haven't been in other D&D games, and I have, btw. So they have practically no perspective. Only as much as I've provided and they don't always listen to me. (This is one of those times..)

So alright, about his character: It's a female gnome wizard, age 15. Ok that's already annoying and goes against the spirit of the game because a wizard should not be 15 years old. Or if it was, it would be a total prodigy which is also really annoying. But that isn't all guys: It's also a character who rolled the most amazing stats ever. This character, at level 6 right now, has 17 AC and 72 hit points. Yes, a little 15 year old gnome girl. 20 int, 18 con, 18 dex...

And that's not all. It's also an extremely immature gnome who is constantly playing tricks on people. Like I made a ranger dude with a wolf, and the first thing she does is cast a minor illusion of a steak on the ground... Tell me that isn't annoying as hell. And yeah apparently my wolf didn't have the discipline to not go after it.

It's like everything she does is designed to take away as much dignity from people as possible, a notion I'm totally against and they should dang well know that about me.

So ok, if I was that pissed off I could just kill her, right? What's a little gnome girl going to do against a dude with a shield and sword, a cloak of protection, and a wolf? Well! Last time on D&D, last night, I straight up attacked her after she made our dwarf paladin's nose glow neon pink. (Like anybody would know what neon pink is back in the medieval days...but that concept is also apparently lost on them.) I was going to give her a chance in that session, but that was literally the first thing she did. I stabbed her with my rapier for a meager 11 damage, on a crit, then she used fog cloud, and then rope trick and hid like a little b****. Yes, that happened.

So basically, she's annoying in every way, and I can't kill her either...which makes her even more annoying. Also I made my character with 20 AC with his shield on, and I didn't put everything into Con...I put some into charisma for RPing purposes. He's a noble and I figured he would most likely have charisma instead of a bunch of toughness. Excuse me for not rolling all 18's. Also note, I'm a proponent of rolling your stats randomly and of course he rolls all 18's on this character. Totally the bane of my existence. (Ok not literally all 18's, but 3 18's and I think he has a +2, a +1, and a 0.)

And yeah even if I fought her head on, I'd probably lose because he has high AC but only 40 health. Lo and behold, she knows magic missile, meaning my AC counts for nothing and she can hit me for about 18 a couple times. Oh and don't you know she has the conjuration school perk so she can teleport a crapload too. It refreshes ever time she uses a conjuration spell level 1 or higher. And with mage armor, she has 17 AC and 72 health like I said. I even caught her after using a lot of her spells, but after the rope trick, I had to wait up to an hour, so I "released aggro" on her because sure I guess he made his feelings known and also made her run away. So probably not just gonna attack her on sight again I guess. So of course I end up letting her grab a few more spells with arcane recovery and now she's totally unbeatable again. Not only that, but the part will try to prevent me from fighting her, so it's not like me and my party even feel the same way about this.

Excuse me, but the rest is just rambling and venting. Read at your own risk!

Then the session proceeds to put us in an 'airship' like a zeppelin kind of thing, which shouldn't exist in D&D but of course our DM is a fan of steampunk and thinks that everything in D&D would be more advanced because of "technomagic" and so forth. I kinda get that, but it gets even more ridiculous. So we actually somehow get this thing to fly which I find very hard to believe. I mean it's a paladin and a monk, and they get this airship to fly? Ok... Then they even find something that's like a modern device that allows them to communicate with the "company" who controls the whole airship thing. And of course he talks while being interrupted by white noise, another concept completely and utterly alien to the D&D world.

Believe it or not, we proceed to fly this thing into a dark cloud that's also invisible for some reason. Turns out it's some kind of advanced technomagic airship of enormous proportions that flies around and blows stuff up I guess. Anyways the rest keeps me thinking about Star Wars because there's some kind of battle going on between this ship and smaller airships like the one we're in. Of course only one player has vague control over the ship and every other player is just standing around with nothing to do other than to observe all this completely absurdity. That one attack I did? Yeah that was like all I did the entire 6 hour session that is an hour drive away. Yep.

We end up landing in an enormous bay inside the huge airship, and some other airships land next to us. So at this point, it really is like those bays in Star Wars where ships land and take off from. Yeah you might think this is actually kind of cool, and yeah it kind of is, but this is D&D. It's supposed to just be fantasy and medieval, and this is, once again, annoyingly stretching the boundaries of the game. It was very hard for me to take the session seriously at all at this point. And you know, I might be able to forgive this if it was the first wild thing that's happened, but trust me even crazier things have happened in the past. We've even been to weird places with no gravity in between dimensions somehow... The DM has a history of making things totally unbelievable and over-the-top. He has a taste for that kind of thing and I don't. I just can't suspend that much disbelief. I just feel like it's all one big joke and none of this would ever happen, so I stop taking the session seriously.

Oh and this gnome wizard is also "chaotic good." Does playing tricks on people against their will even go along with that alignment? Once again, pushing it...

Anyways please pardon me for venting so much, but maybe it will be entertaining for you guys to read. Tell me what you think about the situation and maybe share some stories about players annoying the heck out of you.

Edit: I also wanted to make the argument that since playing all these tricks is so annoying that my character would leave the party, that his character was making the group dysfunctional which I believe to, at the very least, go against the spirit of the game and possibly against the actual rules. In my understanding, the characters are supposed to work together. When it gets to the point that one of the characters wouldn't even want to stay with the group, I'd say the character being so annoying should cut it out on the basis that it's making the group dysfunctional. I'd also like to hear what you have to say about that!

[GPS]

While I can see your problems with the player, it sounds like you have some ridgid views of the "right" way to play d&d. You seem to think that child progidies shouldn't exist, and that 15 year olds can't be supernaturally strong (almost as if the world is magical or something). You also seem to be under the impression that the DM can't make himself a custom setting. This is a roleplaying fantasy game, your way isn't the only way just because you have your own traditional conventions set in stone. Your way of playing isn't "wrong", but that doesn't mean their way isn't "right".

Aside from that, a character using their resources to prevent you from killing them is doing so out of self defense. Sometimes, a wizard just has to run when faced with a fighter. Does it make them a coward? Possibly, definitely in your eyes, but they're really just being practical if you look at it from their perspective.

Final note, how does a wizard have 72 HP while a fighter has 40? I don't care if the brother dude rolled an 18 in con, something is up. Even without that 72 HP, the fact that he rolled an 18 in all stats is incredibly suspicious. Did you see him roll these?

[KleineVampir]

While I can see your problems with the player, it sounds like you have some ridgid views of the "right" way to play d&d. You seem to think that child progidies shouldn't exist, and that 15 year olds can't be supernaturally strong (almost as if the world is magical or something). You also seem to be under the impression that the DM can't make himself a custom setting. This is a roleplaying fantasy game, your way isn't the only way just because you have your own traditional conventions set in stone. You're way of playing isn't "wrong", but that doesn't mean their way isn't "right".

Yeah...but like I said, even if the airship did exist I don't think we could have actually got it airborn, much less fly it successfully into the bay of a huge technomagical airship. At that point I just can't believe it anymore. Though I still think it's bad practice to use modern concepts in a fantasy game.

[KleineVampir]

Aside from that, a character using their resources to prevent you from killing them is doing so out of self defense. Sometimes, a wizard just has to run when faced with a fighter. Does it make them a coward? Possibly, definitely in your eyes, but they're really just being practical if you look at it from their perspective.

Final note, how does a wizard have 72 HP while a fighter has 40? I don't care if the brother dude rolled an 18 in con, something is up. Even without that 72 HP, the fact that he rolled an 18 in all stats is incredibly suspicious.

I didn't say I don't understand why she hid, but I am saying it's really really annoying.

And yeah D&D can be really dumb if you exploit everything. To be fair, my guy has 0 Con and his character has +4. So he starts with 14 and gains 10 five times to level 6, so at that point he's got 64 HP. Then don't you know he took the "Tough" feat so it added some more to get him up to 72. So yeah a little gnome wizard can have more HP than my ranger. I just think it's dumb because if you're going to be so little, you wouldn't likely be incredibly tough. So he designed the character to be good which I get, but he didn't make it a dwarf wizard or anything like that, it had to be a little gnome.

And he didn't roll literally all 18's. I think he did roll 3 though, so half his stats are at least +4. Then his other rolls were decent too so it's just an insanely highly statted character. Not necessarily wrong, just really really annoying once again.

[PeteNutButter]

Yeah...but like I said, even if the airship did exist I don't think we could have actually got it airborn, much less fly it successfully into the bay of a huge technomagical airship. At that point I just can't believe it anymore. Though I still think it's bad practice to use modern concepts in a fantasy game.

Have you never heard of Eberron? There is no "right" way to play D&D, and DMs are free to make settings however they like. If you don't like it, complain to your DM or leave the group.

As far as player conflicts go, a conflict between players should never affect in game characters and a conflict between characters should never affect players. I.E. you should never attack the gnome because you are annoyed with the player, only if your character is sufficiently motivated to attack based on the actions of the other character.

Generally PVP is frowned upon by most tables, and it seems like you were provoked into being the aggressor, so fault is on both sides here. Consider maybe beating him at his own game, playing tricks on him.

It sounds like there is a good chance there is cheating going on though, with him as a wizard having almost double your hit points and "rolling" such great stats. What were your rolling methods? 4d6 drop lowest doesn't have even a remotely good chance at generating more than 1 18... 3 is just outlandish and well in the realm of cheaty-ville.

If you are so set on fighting him (highly discouraged), consider taking your next level in sorcerer and cast shield whenever he tries to magic missile you. Best if you fight before he knows you can, so he wastes his first turn shooting that missile. If he does the rope trick thing again, just ready an attack for whenever he gets out.

Going back to the DM, seems like any adventure that forced all but 1 player to do nothing, is a total **** adventure. Maybe try and switch DMs? I'd never design an adventure where all my players don't contribute.

[BurgerBeast]

Just quit the group.

I would be just as annoyed as you are, but that's why I would quit playing with them. Don't let the fact that someone else annoys you become an excuse for behaving like this.

Walk away.

You say that these people are your friends, but here you are, on an online forum, bashing them more-or-less publicly. You're not making them look bad.

Leave them play how they like. If you don't like it, don't partake. If you want to host your own game, go for it. If you want to invite them, go ahead. If you don't, don't.

[Hrugner]

I have suspiciously good luck with rolling characters, enough that I feel the need to roll publicly for character creation, but I've never had 3 18s in 24 years of playing. This player does sound like they're cheating, and they do sound obnoxious, but I'd be careful not to encourage their behavior by giving strong responses to their shenanigans.

[KleineVampir]

Have you never heard of Eberron? There is no "right" way to play D&D, and DMs are free to make settings however they like. If you don't like it, complain to your DM or leave the group.

As far as player conflicts go, a conflict between players should never affect in game characters and a conflict between characters should never affect players. I.E. you should never attack the gnome because you are annoyed with the player, only if your character is sufficiently motivated to attack based on the actions of the other character.

Generally PVP is frowned upon by most tables, and it seems like you were provoked into being the aggressor, so fault is on both sides here. Consider maybe beating him at his own game, playing tricks on him.

It sounds like there is a good chance there is cheating going on though, with him as a wizard having almost double your hit points and "rolling" such great stats. What were your rolling methods? 4d6 drop lowest doesn't have even a remotely good chance at generating more than 1 18... 3 is just outlandish and well in the realm of cheaty-ville.

If you are so set on fighting him (highly discouraged), consider taking your next level in sorcerer and cast shield whenever he tries to magic missile you. Best if you fight before he knows you can, so he wastes his first turn shooting that missile. If he does the rope trick thing again, just ready an attack for whenever he gets out.

Going back to the DM, seems like any adventure that forced all but 1 player to do nothing, is a total **** adventure. Maybe try and switch DMs? I'd never design an adventure where all my players don't contribute.

Shield just raises AC by 5 though, doesn't it? It wouldn't work in that case.

I honestly don't think I can beat him, so I don't think I'll actually fight him again. I made my feelings known and honestly he hasn't messed with me since I stabbed him. I still highly doubt it's over though.

And I don't think he cheated. Now, he rolled the stats a really long time ago and I think I was there to see those stats being rolled...though honestly I don't really remember that. At this point I doubt the DM would make him re-roll his character. And yeah he did it the "4d6 drop the lowest" way. I like that way of generating stats because I think it's a lot more interesting than copying them from a chart...but then THAT'S what he rolls. Like I'm saying, not necessarily wrong, just insanely annoying.

And yeah I could camp him out, but I don't think my character would do that. And trust me my character had reason to be mad along with me, the player. The first thing he ever did involving me was he "soiled" my pants with prestidigitation. Originally they told me that it felt like I crapped myself, but then I called BS on that one and lo and behold soiled just means he made it dirty. He did this totally unprovoked. I literally just finished making this character and he rode up on his horse to see what was going on with this downed airship, and that's what happened. Also, he hasn't cleaned them off so he just made my pants dirty for no reason and now they are just still dirty.

Also I forgot to mention that after I made my character, with the revised rules, which are doable but complicated, I didn't think of giving my wolf a name. So his character constantly insists that his name is Graywind Poop-smear the third. He knows dang well that I hate crap like this and he's doing it anyways. First of all you don't presume to name somebody's wolf. Second of all calling them that is basically a totally disrespectful insult. So that was also a large factor in me attacking her. Also he tricked my wolf to embarrass us both even further. This is right off the bat, when our characters first met. So there is no understood funny shennanigans or anything like that.

[KleineVampir]

Just quit the group.

I would be just as annoyed as you are, but that's why I would quit playing with them. Don't let the fact that someone else annoys you become an excuse for behaving like this.

Walk away.

You say that these people are your friends, but here you are, on an online forum, bashing them more-or-less publicly. You're not making them look bad.

Leave them play how they like. If you don't like it, don't partake. If you want to host your own game, go for it. If you want to invite them, go ahead. If you don't, don't.

Yeah but you don't know our lives and everything. They should know darn well that I am trapped inside almost all the time and that D&D is one of the very few things I enjoy going and doing. So it's more messed up than you think. Under normal circumstances I'd agree with you but this is just bad.

And you're saying I can't be mad at them? You guys have no clue who they are, so it's not like public shaming. I know not everybody is going to agree with me on this one, but I think I can say what I want without being put on the moral low ground.

[Yuki Akuma]

Yeah but you don't know our lives and everything. They should know darn well that I am trapped inside almost all the time and that D&D is one of the very few things I enjoy going and doing. So it's more messed up than you think. Under normal circumstances I'd agree with you but this is just bad.

And you're saying I can't be mad at them? You guys have no clue who they are, so it's not like public shaming. I know not everybody is going to agree with me on this one, but I think I can say what I want without being put on the moral low ground.

Man, have you seen this forum? The person who shares his story always ends up being called out on how he went wrong.

[KleineVampir]

I have suspiciously good luck with rolling characters, enough that I feel the need to roll publicly for character creation, but I've never had 3 18s in 24 years of playing. This player does sound like they're cheating, and they do sound obnoxious, but I'd be careful not to encourage their behavior by giving strong responses to their shenanigans.

Yeah I could try to convince the DM to make him reroll because his stats are absolutely ludicrous. I know this guy and I believe he's honest but I could be wrong.

And yeah that was my next strategy. I'm just going to say that my character has gotten over it and will endure the dumb tricks and hope they go away.

[jitzul]

On one of your points. I know it may be hard for you to believe but not every d&d setting is generic medieval western European tolkien ripoff fantasy land. Heck not sure but have you heard about eberron or dark sun? That's about as far away from generic medieval western European tolkien ripoff fantasy land as wotc has made. But for real just quit and fand like minded players.

[KleineVampir]

Man, have you seen this forum? The person who shares his story always ends up being called out on how he went wrong.

Actually no I haven't seen this forum. Well, you can blame me if it makes you feel better, but I just wanted other people's opinion on the situation as people who know D&D, and just let me vent my frustrations.

[KleineVampir]

On one of your points. I know it may be hard for you to believe but not every d&d setting is generic medieval western European tolkien ripoff fantasy land. Heck not sure but have you heard about eberron or dark sun? That's about as far away from generic medieval western European tolkien ripoff fantasy land as wotc has made. But for real just quit and fand like minded players.

Ok it's interesting that people would say that. I thought you guys would probably be lotr rip-off purists, lol. Yeah I have a strong preference for a dark fantasy setting. That's me. And a lot of the time the DM does the dark stuff, which I really like. Otherwise D&D is as you said, just generic lotr rip-off with goblins and other generic crap. That's why it has to be dark for me.

I think I will just endure this crap because I have little other choice and I think they will leave me alone in the end. I guess they just can't accept a noble showing up with any grace. They have to make a complete fool out of him to make themselves feel better. Very annoying but like I said I think it will pass and I will get my dark fantasy setting stuff later on in the campaign.

[Keltest]

Actually no I haven't seen this forum. Well, you can blame me if it makes you feel better, but I just wanted other people's opinion on the situation as people who know D&D, and just let me vent my frustrations.

A common saying on this forum is "no gaming is better than bad gaming", which is a fancy way of saying "if you aren't having fun, stop doing it." If the value you get out of social interaction and the fun from the game isn't enough to justify the frustration, youre better off not participating at all.

[StoicLeaf]

ok, 72hp for a level 6 wizard isn't kosher.
a wizard with 18 con and tough has the following hp:

level 1 max: 6
5 levels of half+1: 20
6 levels of con mod: 24
tough hp: 12
total: 62

Hp missing = 10, which oddly enough is what you'd get with max rolled hp dice. For every level.

Listening to you rant, I can see errors on both sides, but ultimately I don't think this group is a good fit for you.
And if you really wanted to kill the gnome ... slit her throat while she sleeps.
No amount of HP or AC are going to save you from rapid exsanguination.

[KleineVampir]

ok, 72hp for a level 6 wizard isn't kosher.
a wizard with 18 con and tough has the following hp:

level 1 max: 6
5 levels of half+1: 20
6 levels of con mod: 24
tough hp: 12
total: 62

Hp missing = 10, which oddly enough is what you'd get with max rolled hp dice. For every level.

Listening to you rant, I can see errors on both sides, but ultimately I don't think this group is a good fit for you.
And if you really wanted to kill the gnome ... slit her throat while she sleeps.
No amount of HP or AC are going to save you from rapid exsanguination.

Oh really?? Because I told the player to his face that my character could do that, and he said: "Good luck. I have 72 HP man..." So do tell how to present this argument because he and the DM are brothers who always tilt things in their favor. I think I've read stuff like that in 3rd edition where you can just straight up kill people in one hit if you just slam your rapier through their eye or something!

[KleineVampir]

A common saying on this forum is "no gaming is better than bad gaming", which is a fancy way of saying "if you aren't having fun, stop doing it." If the value you get out of social interaction and the fun from the game isn't enough to justify the frustration, youre better off not participating at all.

Yeah... you guys could be right. My life really has a lot of weird circumstances so it's not as easy to just quit and join another group as it probably would be for you guys. But that's my problem and I'm not asking you guys to help me with that. But you still might be right. If it's more frustration than fun, why do it? I'll definitely be thinking about that for sure.

[Clone]

After reading through all of this, it just looks like you need to sit down with the player out of character and tell them that they are annoying you to the level it is.
Will that solve the problem? Maybe, maybe not. While I understand that you mightn't have as much freedom to choose who you game with as you like, the only way you can get the player to respect how you are feeling is to talk it out.

Much of what you have said the Gnome is doing is just simple, harmless trickery. Dirtying pants, changing nose colors, and creating illusory steaks appear are all harmless and the player probably doesn't see anything wrong with it. Unless they are actually endangering anyone, its simple one-sided fun even if it is annoying.

It doesn't mean you're unjustified by being irritated by the character, that's perfectly fine and understandable, but if its so bad it is ruining your experience?
Talk to them and get your point across, but respect them and their character. They're there to have fun just as you are and created a character which they seem to enjoy playing. Its fine to have character conflict, its not fine to let that create a schism between yourself and that player. Especially not character violence.

In regards to how you view the HP of the wizard or if they make sense, that's a mechanics issue. A 7 foot tall Goliath with a 20 STR score can be less resilient than a Halfling wizard depending on player choices and rolls, no matter how silly that sounds. I know many who would find that hilarious even. It not fitting how you seemingly view things is nothing to do with the player unfortunately, so I can't offer advice there.

In regards to the setting? Well that is pure DM choice. Like people said, Eberron is a classic example of a steampunk D&D setting with technology infused with magic. If that isn't something you're interested in, talk to the DM about it. Ask them to explain situations or ideas in such as way which is more believable to you, so they don't need to change any ideas they have but you get your immersion. With 6 hours and no combat, either that means it was bad DMing for not knowing what their players want or it was just a combat-light session. I've had sessions where we don't roll any dice whatsoever and they can be the most fun at times.

TLDR:
Talk to them in a fair and honest manner or else try find a more like-minded group online if there aren't any other close groups. You can't make them look at the way you view things and find things fun, but there is ALWAYS a middle-ground. It is just a matter if both parties are willing to work towards that middle-ground.

Edited, said CON when meant to say STR

[GPS]

Shield just raises AC by 5 though, doesn't it? It wouldn't work in that case.

Shield raises AC by 2. Is this sarcasm, or is this Shield of faith and I'm misinterpretinf.?

[Keltest]

Oh really?? Because I told the player to his face that my character could do that, and he said: "Good luck. I have 72 HP man..." So do tell how to present this argument because he and the DM are brothers who always tilt things in their favor. I think I've read stuff like that in 3rd edition where you can just straight up kill people in one hit if you just slam your rapier through their eye or something!

In 3.5, the term is coup-de-grace. Its an automatic crit with whatever weapon youre using, so it deals however much damage that is for your weapon. On top of that, theres a fortitude save with a DC of 10 plus the damage you deal, to prevent outright death irrespective of the damage dealt. If youre a rogue, you can also add the sneak attack damage bonus to the damage and DC. A wizard is unlikely to survive such an attack from any martial of comparable level without some serious cheese.

you put this in the 5e forum though, so I'm assuming that's the edition youre using.

[KleineVampir]

After reading through all of this, it just looks like you need to sit down with the player out of character and tell them that they are annoying you to the level it is.
Will that solve the problem? Maybe, maybe not. While I understand that you mightn't have as much freedom to choose who you game with as you like, the only way you can get the player to respect how you are feeling is to talk it out.

Much of what you have said the Gnome is doing is just simple, harmless trickery. Dirtying pants, changing nose colors, and creating illusory steaks appear are all harmless and the player probably doesn't see anything wrong with it. Unless they are actually endangering anyone, its simple one-sided fun even if it is annoying.

It doesn't mean you're unjustified by being irritated by the character, that's perfectly fine and understandable, but if its so bad it is ruining your experience?
Talk to them and get your point across, but respect them and their character. They're there to have fun just as you are and created a character which they seem to enjoy playing. Its fine to have character conflict, its not fine to let that create a schism between yourself and that player. Especially not character violence.

In regards to how you view the HP of the wizard or if they make sense, that's a mechanics issue. A 7 foot tall Goliath with a 20 CON score can be less resilient than a Halfling wizard depending on player choices and rolls, no matter how silly that sounds. I know many who would find that hilarious even. It not fitting how you seemingly view things is nothing to do with the player unfortunately, so I can't offer advice there.

In regards to the setting? Well that is pure DM choice. Like people said, Eberron is a classic example of a steampunk D&D setting with technology infused with magic. If that isn't something you're interested in, talk to the DM about it. Ask them to explain situations or ideas in such as way which is more believable to you, so they don't need to change any ideas they have but you get your immersion. With 6 hours and no combat, either that means it was bad DMing for not knowing what their players want or it was just a combat-light session. I've had sessions where we don't roll any dice whatsoever and they can be the most fun at times.

TLDR:
Talk to them in a fair and honest manner or else try find a more like-minded group online if there aren't any other close groups. You can't make them look at the way you view things and find things fun, but there is ALWAYS a middle-ground. It is just a matter if both parties are willing to work towards that middle-ground.

Ok, wise words! Guys, typically I am just a totally relaxed D&D player but only until now have I become irate.

Also I don't have a ton of principles that I'm constantly guarding, but I believe everybody should be treated with respect and allowed to have their dignity intact. Doing things just to humiliate people and 'take them down a notch' is just not acceptable in my book; and my friends should know this by now. I'm sure my friend did not actually intend to annoy me this much, but even OOC we disagree on who is in the wrong. I don't get why this would be my fault because I was definitely not the one to initiate these tricks...but I guess I did initiate the violence! But seriously, my guy did nothing wrong and he just started utterly disrespecting me and my wolf. I don't think my character would take that! He's a noble and I don't think he would take that affront to his dignity.

[KleineVampir]

In 3.5, the term is coup-de-grace. Its an automatic crit with whatever weapon youre using, so it deals however much damage that is for your weapon. On top of that, theres a fortitude save with a DC of 10 plus the damage you deal, to prevent outright death irrespective of the damage dealt. If youre a rogue, you can also add the sneak attack damage bonus to the damage and DC. A wizard is unlikely to survive such an attack from any martial of comparable level without some serious cheese.

you put this in the 5e forum though, so I'm assuming that's the edition youre using.

Yeah it's 5e. So I guess that means there's no 'official' argument for a coup de grace? I like this edition but honestly it's starting to leave much to be desired! No more coup de grace? So I could crit just like I did before, but it wouldn't be nearly enough to kill her. Yeah, I'm the kind of guy who likes things to be as realistic and believable as possible, even though it is a fantasy setting. If I shove my rapier through her throat while she's asleep, she should be a goner!

[KleineVampir]

Shield raises AC by 2. Is this sarcasm, or is this Shield of faith and I'm misinterpretinf.?

Are we both talking about "Shield" from 5e? 1st level abjuration.. +5 AC and totally blocks magic missile, so I get what you're saying in that case. Funny that they would target that spell particularly to be able to block, but I guess it makes sense.

[Knaight]

Yeah... you guys could be right. My life really has a lot of weird circumstances so it's not as easy to just quit and join another group as it probably would be for you guys. But that's my problem and I'm not asking you guys to help me with that. But you still might be right. If it's more frustration than fun, why do it? I'll definitely be thinking about that for sure.

The statement is explicitly that if a group is bad enough (or a bad enough fit) you should quit, even when there is no fallback group. "You should just play that other game with an opening that's much better" doesn't tend to show up as advice much, mostly because it's a pretty obvious course of action.

[Yuki Akuma]

Are we both talking about "Shield" from 5e? 1st level abjuration.. +5 AC and totally blocks magic missile, so I get what you're saying in that case. Funny that they would target that spell particularly to be able to block, but I guess it makes sense.

Shield blocks Magic Missile because Shield has blocked Magic Missile in every edition where both of those spells existed.

[GPS]

Are we both talking about "Shield" from 5e? 1st level abjuration.. +5 AC and totally blocks magic missile, so I get what you're saying in that case. Funny that they would target that spell particularly to be able to block, but I guess it makes sense.

Oh, my bad. I thought you were talking about the equipment, not the spell

[StoicLeaf]

Yeah it's 5e. So I guess that means there's no 'official' argument for a coup de grace? I like this edition but honestly it's starting to leave much to be desired! No more coup de grace? So I could crit just like I did before, but it wouldn't be nearly enough to kill her. Yeah, I'm the kind of guy who likes things to be as realistic and believable as possible, even though it is a fantasy setting. If I shove my rapier through her throat while she's asleep, she should be a goner!

5e is a different beast.
From my DMing perspective, combat is there for people that are armed and looking for or prepared for trouble.

Someone sleeping, with no armor, and no opportunity to defend themselves doesn't even get to roll initiative.
You're dead, game over.

His argument of "I have 72 hp, dur hur good luck" is moot. HP is an abstraction of how much punishment you can take before falling over.
A sleeping person doesn't require this abstraction.

If the DM is going to tilt stuff in favour of his brother then just leave.
It sounds like a total bummer.

[KleineVampir]

5e is a different beast.
From my DMing perspective, combat is there for people that are armed and looking for or prepared for trouble.

Someone sleeping, with no armor, and no opportunity to defend themselves doesn't even get to roll initiative.
You're dead, game over.

His argument of "I have 72 hp, dur hur good luck" is moot. HP is an abstraction of how much punishment you can take before falling over.
A sleeping person doesn't require this abstraction.

If the DM is going to tilt stuff in favour of his brother then just leave.
It sounds like a total bummer.

Ha, well said man.

It is, but it can also be the best campaign. I doubt anyone in my area would have a taste for dark stuff like this DM. It's just that this adventure is totally over the top and unbelievable to me...so this one isn't for me I guess. So what I'm saying is that he'll take me into the 'dark fantasy' setting that I like so much, at some point in the future.

Overall, it's just frustrating because they have a pattern of doing BS and not listening to me. I'm the one with the most experience and knowledge in the group. I helped the DM to become a good DM because I thought he would ultimately be better than me at doing it. But yeah they have their whole brother thing going on and they like to have things their way all the time. Usually the DM is pretty reasonable and not anti-fun or anything like that, so it's usually a good session. I'll have to tell you guys what happens next week! I'm hoping we'll at least be out of the airship and done with that by the end of it.

[Sigreid]

Actually, it sounds like he's playing a gnome the way they are described in the lore. Gnomes love practical jokes at the expense of others.

Other than that, even with a 18 con and toughness he would have to roll max hitpoints every level for 6 levels to have 72 hit points and that does sound a bit suspicious. Never even once in those 5 rolls rolled a 5 or lower?