Alien: Covenant

[Scowling Dragon]

A Freakin-gain.

More people dumbly walking up to evil eggs and getting their faces attacked by monsters.

Just....ENOUGH

[Kantaki]

A Freakin-gain.

More people dumbly walking up to evil eggs and getting their faces attacked by monsters.

Just....ENOUGH

Isn't that pretty much how the whole franchise started?

[Donnadogsoth]

A Freakin-gain.

More people dumbly walking up to evil eggs and getting their faces attacked by monsters.

Just....ENOUGH

At least there should be an in-film explanation for why they don't send smart people into Space.

Blecchh.

[Berserk Mecha]

Personally, I'm more miffed about the xenomorphs acting repetitive than about the way that the human characters act. The aliens are some of the most iconic movie monsters and yet they're being presented to the audience as if they're something new and unexpected. Sure, they can still be scary, but we already know what they're capable of and what their weakness are. At least give us a new variant of the typical xenomorph to keep things fresh.

[An Enemy Spy]

As far as I'm concerned, the Alien Franchise died with Alien^3. It really says something that Prometheus is the best one they've made since Aliens.

[90,000]

Remember when popular culture had original ideas.

But I dream, don't I?

[Vogie]

Remember when popular culture had original ideas.

But I dream, don't I?

Sometimes they do.

Other times, Ridley Scott thinks "I need a new Yacht"

[Anonymouswizard]

As far as I'm concerned, the Alien Franchise died with Alien^3. It really says something that Prometheus is the best one they've made since Aliens.

I haven't seen Alien³, but I have to say I enjoyed Prometheas more when it was it's own thing, I hated that pseudo xenomorph at the end. Wasn't ​an awesome must see work of art, bit it wasn't something I regretted seeing.

[golentan]

What's wrong with enjoying a work for what it is? What's wrong with hoping that art is well executed more than hoping it's original? Shakespeare borrowed liberally from other playwrights, especially in his early work, but he did it well and he left a lasting legacy.

Ridley Scott's Alien is one of my favorite films of all time, and the only horror film I really enjoy. Ridley Scott in general is a good director. I'm not sorry to see him get another proper crack at the setting, and hopefully devoid of the baggage left by other directors in the (mostly bad) Ellen Ripley storyline.

Maybe it'll be bad, but the quest for novelty in the series gave us this idiotic abomination:

Spoiler

Show

It gave us evil voodoo sharks in Jaws. It gave us Superman IV: the Quest for Peace. And in terms of creating new series, it gave us things like Plan 9 From Outer Space, The Happening, and various other drek.

There's plenty of new ideas in pop culture, just that 90% of them are drek. Same with many of the old ideas. Even if the idea is good, if it's executed poorly the result is unwatchable. Sturgeon's law cuts across everything: genre, time periods, medium, all of it.

So damn it, even if it's just me, I will stand here and proudly proclaim that I think Xenomorphs are an interesting idea and I am hoping that Ridley Scott handles them well a second time, and if the reviews are good I will go see this film! All I ask from artists are non-stupid ideas executed well, and I hope that people will join me in promoting quality over novelty for novelty's sake! You know what else is novel? Liver and pineapple ice cream!

[Scowling Dragon]

What's wrong with hoping that art is well executed more than hoping it's original?

One doesn't counteract the other, and is a false equivalency anyway. Under that argument, you would enjoy a shot for shot remake of a good movie over and over just with new actors and technology.

Because withe each repeat, unless its somehow mind-blowingly better then the last, its just the same stuff. You can be a great actor as possible, with the best lines as possible but I already saw people stupidly poking thier heads at alien eggs at least 3 times now.

Why would I care to see it a 4rth time?

And YES. I would rather take new bad ideas then doing the same good one over and over. Because at least with a bad new idea I can think about how I could do it better.

But with the same idea it either supplants the old one or just is inferior.

Because your missing the point:

The something new was what gave us the original "Alien" in the first place.

We can never GET a new thing that could be as good as aliens if we just keep remaking aliens forever!"

[Donnadogsoth]

We can never GET a new thing that could be as good as aliens if we just keep remaking aliens forever!"

Have the Alien movies basically turned into the Hammer Horror's endless Dracula films?

[The Glyphstone]

Have the Alien movies basically turned into the Hammer Horror's endless Dracula films?

We've yet to see Alien Meets The Harlem Globetrotters, or Alien Meets Abbot and Costello.

[No brains]

You know what I want out of the Alien (or almost any monster movie) series? A nature documentary of the monsters going about their day in their habitat. Like in the vein of Planet Earth or something. Even if they're no longer frightening, they're still neat to look at! I'd also like the see puzzles set up to mess with the monsters like scientists do with kea parrots.

[golentan]

One doesn't counteract the other, and is a false equivalency anyway. Under that argument, you would enjoy a shot for shot remake of a good movie over and over just with new actors and technology.

Because withe each repeat, unless its somehow mind-blowingly better then the last, its just the same stuff. You can be a great actor as possible, with the best lines as possible but I already saw people stupidly poking thier heads at alien eggs at least 3 times now.

Why would I care to see it a 4rth time?

And YES. I would rather take new bad ideas then doing the same good one over and over. Because at least with a bad new idea I can think about how I could do it better.

But with the same idea it either supplants the old one or just is inferior.

Because your missing the point:

The something new was what gave us the original "Alien" in the first place.

We can never GET a new thing that could be as good as aliens if we just keep remaking aliens forever!"

No you couldn't, for the same reason a paint by numbers version of the Mona Lisa won't live up to the original. On the other hand, taking a similar pose and doing a different portrait as an homage can work really well.

And in this case, this is the first time Ridley Scott is returning to Alien properly. It's not... fanfic, is what I'm saying. Which isn't to say fanfic is bad, just that it doesn't belong lumped in with the original. This isn't "J.R.R. Tolkien's 'The Hobbit,' In three parts as told by Peter Jackson" this is a chance for Tolkien to write lord of the rings: Same monsters, same universe, new cast, wider scope.

As best I can tell, this movie has nothing to do with the Nostromo, Ellen Ripley, LV426. There's a whole planet with a whole ecosystem, so maybe we can get away from the tight corridors and vent scares. And that's a good thing. It's a jumping off point by the original author, who probably has no need to make lots of filthy lucre at this point and so is returning because he has found something to say.

And we WILL get a new thing which is as good as the original Alien, we just don't know where it will come from. There's new stuff being made all the time, most of it is bad. Much of the return to old stuff is bad, also. But the good stuff will rise to the top if you give it time, we will all enjoy the next new thing which will change cinematography forever just as we enjoyed the first Matrix, or Psycho, or Casablanca, or whatever you wanna talk of. Most of which didn't actually change cinematography forever, but did introduce some new techniques for at least a bit.

But most of the new stuff will be bad, just as most of the old stuff was bad, and in the meantime when an artist I like starts making stuff similar to stuff I like, I'm gonna keep my ears perked to hear the first reviews.

Also, the thing with the eggs is kinda a silly insult. Most of the characters who lumber into the egg trap thusfar have no foreknowledge and are usually wearing spacesuits at the time. If you're in protective clothing in an anoxic environment, and you see a big brown lump, and you have no foreknowledge that this is a lethal organism or that you are in a horror film, are you that convinced that you know to keep the minimum 5 meter safe radius?

Edit: Also, No brains, that would be a nifty thing... Maybe they could give it to us as a DVD extra at some point...

[warty goblin]

You know what I want out of the Alien (or almost any monster movie) series? A nature documentary of the monsters going about their day in their habitat. Like in the vein of Planet Earth or something. Even if they're no longer frightening, they're still neat to look at! I'd also like the see puzzles set up to mess with the monsters like scientists do with kea parrots.

I love the hell out of this idea.

Then you could make it horror again by having it be an alien nature documentary, set on Earth halfway through it being terraformed for its new residents. Film it so the monsters are the protagonist animals, the human survivors prey - the monsters being weapons and tools of the terraforming process. Use the same sorts of language for the humans we use in nature documentaries - "the mother has only hours to find water and shelter, or the infant will die."

[lord_khaine]

Also, the thing with the eggs is kinda a silly insult. Most of the characters who lumber into the egg trap thusfar have no foreknowledge and are usually wearing spacesuits at the time. If you're in protective clothing in an anoxic environment, and you see a big brown lump, and you have no foreknowledge that this is a lethal organism or that you are in a horror film, are you that convinced that you know to keep the minimum 5 meter safe radius?

I think thats a pretty good point, it is really easy to spot traps in hindsight. And exploding eggs are something that would takes most people by complete surprise.

[The Troubadour]

What's wrong with enjoying a work for what it is? What's wrong with hoping that art is well executed more than hoping it's original? Shakespeare borrowed liberally from other playwrights, especially in his early work, but he did it well and he left a lasting legacy.

In addition to that being a false equivalence, Shakespeare borrowed liberally from other sources, but he always did his own thing with it - "MacBeth" and "King Lear" aren't the same thing as "Holinshed's Chronicles", "Hamlet" isn't the same thing as Saxo's story about Amleth, and so on and so forth.

[137beth]

Remember when popular culture had original ideas.

Yea. Back in my day, we had plays like Hamlet, Prince of Denmark. Except that play wasn't original in the slightest: it is a longer, drawn out rip-off of Aeschylus' The Libation Bearers with a bigger budget. But then, it's not like Aeschylus' writings were original either. Every single character in The Libation Bearers had already been described centuries earlier by Homer and other poets, and they in turn were recycling stories and characters from earlier oral tradition.

I guess what I'm saying is that no, I don't remember the very first work of fiction. I'm not that old. Nothing after that was original.

[Scowling Dragon]

I guess what I'm saying is that no, I don't remember the very first work of fiction. I'm not that old. Nothing after that was original.

I remember a time before that! When people were less defensive about which media they consumed and didn't make false equivalency arguments...Those where the days!

[Rogar Demonblud]

A-Freakin-gain.

More people dumbly walking up to evil eggs and getting their faces attacked by monsters.

Just....ENOUGH

People might learn about this faster if the Xenomorphs didn't keep killing off everyone they encounter. Kind of derails the learning curve.

[137beth]

We've yet to see Alien Meets The Harlem Globetrotters, or Alien Meets Abbot and Costello.

Well, Rogue One showed us that we have the technology for a dead actor to appear in a new movie. There's no technical reason why they couldn't do a meeting between CGI Abbot and Costello and a xenomorph.

[No brains]

Well, Rogue One showed us that we have the technology for a dead actor to appear in a new movie. There's no technical reason why they couldn't do a meeting between CGI Abbot and Costello and a xenomorph.

Now seeing THAT again would be scary!

[warty goblin]

Now seeing THAT again would be scary!

Yeah, every scene with Tarkin in it made me wonder why nobody seemed to be noticing the robot wearing a bad skin suit giving orders to everybody. And Leia at the end was just scary. That wasn't the uncanny valley, that was the bottom of the uncanny lake.

[Dr.Samurai]

A Freakin-gain.

More people dumbly walking up to evil eggs and getting their faces attacked by monsters.

Just....ENOUGH

I would walk up to a giant unknown egg. Humans are curious creatures. I also inspect strange noises. I like to confront the unknown instead of dealing with ambiguity.

[The Troubadour]

Yea. Back in my day, we had plays like Hamlet, Prince of Denmark. Except that play wasn't original in the slightest: it is a longer, drawn out rip-off of Aeschylus' The Libation Bearers with a bigger budget.

That you think "Hamlet" is the same story as "Coephoroi" tells me you haven't read either play. :-)

[Scowling Dragon]

I would walk up to a giant unknown egg. Humans are curious creatures. I also inspect strange noises. I like to confront the unknown instead of dealing with ambiguity.

Thats why you would not be on a science team on a bajillion dollar spaceship to colonize/ explore planets, best in your field.

[golentan]

Thats why you would not be on a science team on a bajillion dollar spaceship to colonize/ explore planets, best in your field.

One: the human explorers in the alien universe are not the best in their field, generally speaking. They're working stiffs who argue about not getting enough breaks and complain about corporate memos.

Two: Have you ever met any biologists? We're a curious, xenophilic breed as a rule, though we can be counted on to wear gloves, breathmasks, and eye protection in potentially infectious environments.

Which brings me to the crux of several of my complaints, in three: Complaining about things you have little to no information about.

[90,000]

I guess what I'm saying is that no, I don't remember the very first work of fiction. I'm not that old. Nothing after that was original.

A line of influence and a direct sequel?

Not exactly comparable, bud.

Unless you wanna say Ulysses is functionally the same thing as The Odyssey.

If that's the case we're going to have to take it outside.

[Callos_DeTerran]

You know what I want out of the Alien (or almost any monster movie) series? A nature documentary of the monsters going about their day in their habitat. Like in the vein of Planet Earth or something. Even if they're no longer frightening, they're still neat to look at! I'd also like the see puzzles set up to mess with the monsters like scientists do with kea parrots.

I love the hell out of this idea.

Then you could make it horror again by having it be an alien nature documentary, set on Earth halfway through it being terraformed for its new residents. Film it so the monsters are the protagonist animals, the human survivors prey - the monsters being weapons and tools of the terraforming process. Use the same sorts of language for the humans we use in nature documentaries - "the mother has only hours to find water and shelter, or the infant will die."

I also love the hell out of the idea, not least of which because it would be utterly fascinating and horrifying to see the FULL Xenomorph life-cycle in action. We only ever get to see face hugger-chest burster-xenomorph. Where do Queen's come from? Do they have other uses for their prey? Where's that resin they cover their hives in come from? Are there other variants than the regular xenomorph? 'cause we always see them in other Aliens media!

You don't even need to have humans in it at all at that point...though..it would reduce the budget considerably I imagine. Not to mention it would be a legitimate challenge to...try to make the Xenomorphs look like the protagonists of a nature documentary but pretty horrific to watch them do some of their bloody business to people while a narrator lovingly tries to portray it as some beautiful thing rather than the aberration it is.

Can we get this idea for more movie monsters? Pretty please?

[Frozen_Feet]

One doesn't counteract the other, and is a false equivalency anyway. Under that argument, you would enjoy a shot for shot remake of a good movie over and over just with new actors and technology.

And why wouldn't he?

Think for a moment. Before modern technology made recording and copying those records so cheap as to be an afterthought, how did plays, songs, stories etc. stay in circulation? "Shot for shot remake with new actors and technology."

If any piece of entertainment is worth re-experiencing, it's also worth re-enacting. I'd probably be just as happy watching four different re-enactions of Alien as I was watching a recording of the original movie four times, provided the production is on the same level as the original. Just like I'd be happy to listen to four different bands play the same song, provided all the musicians are equally skilled.

In practice, quality of re-enactions vary, because skills of the re-enactors vary, so a re-enaction might fail to be as good. A recording, on the other hand, stays the same over repetitions. But that is not an issue of "originality".

Likewise repetition can get boring, but that is not a problem of originality either. Watch a recording of the first Alien enough times, and it will probably bore just as well as watching a similar number of quality re-enactments. You can have too much of a good thing.

I completely reject the idea that re-enactments are doomed to be inferior to the "original".