MC Paladin/Warlock before level 5

[Elkreeal]

If I go for Warlock MC I'm gonna go for hexblade or great old one (this is ongoing, still have time to decide as I level up) .

For context:
I'm a Oath of Vengeance Fallen Aasimar following a Lawful Neutral god of Protection that because of ongoing events is not gonna be able to redeem himself (as in I won't become a normal aasimar again).
I wish to mercilessly bring down a cult leaded by the parties main antagonist (a random spell caster) and to me, in character, it would make sense to fight fire with fire given how things have gone so far. I've been getting visions but not given to me by a Deva because "it" doesn't speak to me. I took the Magic Initiate Feat because of this and now it would either make sense to take 3 levels in fighter to become a Eldritch Knight and become more physically resilient while exploring the arcane or to go for a warlock of some sort because of the same reason and the visions. (My Cha is the same as my Str, 16)

Warlock seems more "profitable" in the long run because I have more slots to dump into Divine Smite.

(Edit: a lot of my ineptitude comes from being "new" to 5e; I say I mostly played 2e and 4e, and for that reason I don't have many concepts of how to optimize this)

[Escribblings]

Well unlike you, I'm just completely new to DnD at any level!

However, look back at my brainstorming, because I laid out some of the points of fighter (up to L4) taking either Battle Master or Eldritch Knight. (Including spell multiclassing).

Bear in mind if you take EK it will affect your spell slots.

Warlock doesn't affect spell slots when Multiclassing.

To work out your spell level is ½ Paladin (rounded down) + ⅓ Eldritch Knight (rounded down)

For a 6/4 P/EK that's level 4 (3+1). Then reference the multiclass spell table to see what slots you have. NOT the Paladin or EK tables.

[Escribblings]

OK - I bought the DM SCAG ;)

So SCAG is now in, giving me BB and GFB options...

AND - XGtE is also in, giving me the CELESTIAL patron

Suddenly this is getting betterer and betterer...

Character creation imminent!

[CircleOfTheRock]

So I haven't played 5E, though I'm interested. But how in the hell (heh) do you fluff such a character?
I keep seeing this combo of Paladin Warlock come up because 'optimized'. But...like...how?

I can understand the devil wanting a paladin's soul, but how does the paladin not instantly fall? Even if its not Infernal patronage, a Great Old One is just as bad, on the chaos spectrum, possibly the evil spectrum, and definitely the madness spectrum. Even an Arch Fey, being so alien in thought and expectation, should make a Paladin fall. Any major oath to any service other than the God in question should be grounds for dismissal.
Do players explain this for their characters? Or do DMs not care? "Palock? Cool. Smiting Hex all over my face. Lets do this." It just makes so little sense to me.

In addition to all the other brilliant arguments already stated, you can also consider what this kind of dialogue implies:

NPC: Hey, uh, what's a Paladin doing making pacts with forces dark beyond imagining?
Pallock: Well, I'll just say that there's a reason I don't drink anymore.

[Escribblings]

...

As for where I want to take it after P6/W4, I'm undecided.

Looking at the levels, there are some things I definitely want and others that don't seem that useful (right now anyway)

Paladin

1. • Devine Sense - Meh
   • Lay On Hands - Yes
2. • Fighting Style - Yes (probably Duelling although they all bring something to the table)
   • Spells - Yes
   • Divine Smite - Hell Yes
3. • Divine Health - Nice
   • Sacred Oath (Devotion)
     • (Channel Divintiy) Sacred Weapon - Yes
     • (Channel Divinity) Turn the Unholy - Meh
4. ASI - Always Welcome
5. Extra Attack - Always Welcome
6. Aura Of Protection - Yes
7. Aura Of Devotion - Meh
8. ASI - Always Welcome
9. Nothing
10. Aura of Courage - Meh
11. Improved Divine Smite - Yes
12. ASI - Always Welcome
13. Nothing
14. Cleansing Touch - Meh
15. Purity of Spirit - Meh
16. ASI - Always Welcome

Warlock

1. • Pact Magic - Yes (and not subject to spell Multiclassing rules)
   • Patron Feature (GOO), Awakened Mind - Yes
2. Eldritch Invocations - Yes
3. Pact Boon (Blade) - Hell yes
4. ASI - Always Welcome
5. Nothing
6. Entropic Ward - Meh
7. Nothing
8. ASI - Always Welcome
9. Nothing
10. Thought Shield - Nice
11. Mystic Arcanum - Nice
12. ASI - Always Welcome
13. Mystic Arcanum - Nice
14. Create Thrall - Meh
15. Mystic Arcanum - Nice
16. ASI - Always Welcome

Looking at those lists next to each other, aiming for Improved Divine Smite seems better than Thought Shield.

With that in mind, to squeeze the ASI I think I would aim for a L20 P12/W8.

It's that or freeze Warlock at 4 and take Paladin to 16.

I think the former as the Warlock spell slots and Invocations are probably more useful.

Or not...

The difference is 2 long rest level 5 spells or 2 invocations.

Ok, the Celestial Patron is definitely the path I want to tread.

Now I definitely want Paladin to 6...

Before Celestial I was going to go Paladin 12 / Warlock 8 as the final goal...

But the Celestial Patron Features at 10 and 14 are quite good.

Celestial Resilience and Searing Vengeance...

Which puts me in another quandary...

I really wanted Aura Of Protection and Improved Divine Smite, but Searing Vengeance is soo good.

So... Bearing in mind I get the extra attack benefits in different ways...

Should I change from P12/W8 to P6/W14?

Or should I forgo Aura of Protection and Extra Attack and go P4/W16 to maintains ASI's and gain Mystic Arcanum?

I think I'm going to go P4 off the bat, then P4/W4 and then see how it goes.

[OldTrees1]

Which puts me in another quandary...

I really wanted Aura Of Protection and Improved Divine Smite, but Searing Vengeance is soo good.

So... Bearing in mind I get the extra attack benefits in different ways...

Should I change from P12/W8 to P6/W14?

Or should I forgo Aura of Protection and Extra Attack and go P4/W16 to maintains ASI's and gain Mystic Arcanum?

I think I'm going to go P4 off the bat, then P4/W4 and then see how it goes.

I am currently running a Paladin 4 / Warlock 1 that will end up as a Paladin 13 (Ancients) / Warlock 7 (Hex, Chain)

1) Eldritch Blast will improve at 5th level regardless of if you get extra attack or not. So I found Paladin 2 / Warlock 1 / Paladin +3 to be ideal for 1st-6th level. However it depends heavily on what your first feat/ASI will be.

2) I find 13:7 a good ratio because it gives me Warlock slots at the same levels as my Paladin slots (kinda makes me a short rest Paladin). My alternatives are 12:8 and 14:6. 12:8 gives you an extra feat (what is your 5th feat/ASI going to be?) at the cost of 4th level Paladin auras. 14:6 gives you cleansing touch (a powerful ability but you would get it rather late) at the cost of 4th level short rest spell slots from warlock.

3) You are looking at Searing Vengeance (Celestial Warlock 14) where you get free contingent healing up to half your max hp once per long rest. To get that from your current plan you will lose 3rd level Paladin spells (Paladin 9), Improved Divine Smite, and possibly a feat, but gain Searing Vengeance and some Mystic Arcanum(1 6th & 1 7th per long rest). I would look up the 3rd level Paladin spells (like Aura of Vitality) before deciding.

4) I have heard that high level saves are near impossible without proficiency or Aura of Protection. (1d20+2 vs DC 19 is only a 20% chance of success and some monsters get higher DCs than that, and I was presuming your 3rd major save had an ability score of 14)

[SkylarkR6]

I'm doing a similar build. Currently Paladin1/Warlock2. End goal is Paladin11/Lock9 for 5th level lock slots and improved smite. Ancients paladin and celestial warlock. Aasimar just because I really want to abuse spellless healing.
Next level doing 2/2 (125 xp to go) so I can have 4 spell slots can start smiting. Then 3rd lock for pact(probably tome for ritual fun) and then paladin up to 7 for oath, extra attack, and both auras

[CircleOfTheRock]

As for where I want to take it after P6/W4, I'm undecided.

Looking at the levels, there are some things I definitely want and others that don't seem that useful (right now anyway)

Paladin

1. • Devine Sense - Meh
   • Lay On Hands - Yes
2. • Fighting Style - Yes (probably Duelling although they all bring something to the table)
   • Spells - Yes
   • Divine Smite - Hell Yes
3. • Divine Health - Nice
   • Sacred Oath (Devotion)
     • (Channel Divintiy) Sacred Weapon - Yes
     • (Channel Divinity) Turn the Unholy - Meh
4. ASI - Always Welcome
5. Extra Attack - Always Welcome
6. Aura Of Protection - Yes
7. Aura Of Devotion - Meh
8. ASI - Always Welcome
9. Nothing
10. Aura of Courage - Meh
11. Improved Divine Smite - Yes
12. ASI - Always Welcome
13. Nothing
14. Cleansing Touch - Meh
15. Purity of Spirit - Meh
16. ASI - Always Welcome

Warlock

1. • Pact Magic - Yes (and not subject to spell Multiclassing rules)
   • Patron Feature (GOO), Awakened Mind - Yes
2. Eldritch Invocations - Yes
3. Pact Boon (Blade) - Hell yes
4. ASI - Always Welcome
5. Nothing
6. Entropic Ward - Meh
7. Nothing
8. ASI - Always Welcome
9. Nothing
10. Thought Shield - Nice
11. Mystic Arcanum - Nice
12. ASI - Always Welcome
13. Mystic Arcanum - Nice
14. Create Thrall - Meh

Woah, woah, woah... Third level spells... at W5, you get third. Level. SPELLS. How is that nothing?

[Escribblings]

Woah, woah, woah... Third level spells... at W5, you get third. Level. SPELLS. How is that nothing?

VERY good point! I had completely overlooked spell progression... So now I have created a ready-reckoner

+-------+---------------------------+---------------------------+-----------------+---------------------------+---------------------------+
| Level | Paladin Spell Slots (L/R) | Warlock Spell Slots (S/R) | Mystic Arcanum  | Spells per day (1 s/rest) | Spells per day (2 s/rest) |
| Pd/Wl | TOTAL 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th | TOTAL 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th | 6th 7th 8th 9th | TOTAL 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th | TOTAL 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th |
+-------+---------------------------+---------------------------+-----------------+---------------------------+---------------------------+
| --/20 |   -    -   -   -   -   -  |   4    -   -   -   -   4  |  1   1   1   1  |   8    -   -   -   -   8  |  12    -   -   -   -  12  |
|  1/19 |   -    -   -   -   -   -  |   4    -   -   -   -   4  |  1   1   1   1  |   8    -   -   -   -   8  |  12    -   -   -   -  12  |
|  2/18 |   2    2   -   -   -   -  |   4    -   -   -   -   4  |  1   1   1   1  |  10    2   -   -   -   8  |  14    2   -   -   -  12  |
|  3/17 |   3    3   -   -   -   -  |   4    -   -   -   -   4  |  1   1   1   1  |  11    3   -   -   -   8  |  15    3   -   -   -  12  |
|  4/16 |   3    3   -   -   -   -  |   3    -   -   -   -   3  |  1   1   1   -  |   9    3   -   -   -   6  |  12    3   -   -   -   9  |
|  5/15 |   6    4   2   -   -   -  |   3    -   -   -   -   3  |  1   1   1   -  |  12    4   2   -   -   6  |  15    4   2   -   -   9  |
|  6/14 |   6    4   2   -   -   -  |   3    -   -   -   -   3  |  1   1   -   -  |  12    4   2   -   -   6  |  15    4   2   -   -   9  |
|  7/13 |   7    4   3   -   -   -  |   3    -   -   -   -   3  |  1   1   -   -  |  13    4   3   -   -   6  |  16    4   3   -   -   9  |
|  8/12 |   7    4   3   -   -   -  |   3    -   -   -   -   3  |  1   -   -   -  |  13    4   3   -   -   6  |  16    4   3   -   -   9  |
|  9/11 |   9    4   3   2   -   -  |   3    -   -   -   -   3  |  1   -   -   -  |  15    4   3   2   -   6  |  18    4   3   2   -   9  |
| 10/10 |   9    4   3   2   -   -  |   2    -   -   -   -   2  |  -   -   -   -  |  13    4   3   2   -   4  |  15    4   3   2   -   6  |
| 11/ 9 |  10    4   3   3   -   -  |   2    -   -   -   -   2  |  -   -   -   -  |  14    4   3   3   -   4  |  16    4   3   3   -   6  |
| 12/ 8 |  10    4   3   3   -   -  |   2    -   -   -   2   -  |  -   -   -   -  |  14    4   3   3   4   -  |  16    4   3   3   6   -  |
| 13/ 7 |  11    4   3   3   1   -  |   2    -   -   -   2   -  |  -   -   -   -  |  15    4   3   3   5   -  |  17    4   3   3   7   -  |
| 14/ 6 |  11    4   3   3   1   -  |   2    -   -   2   -   -  |  -   -   -   -  |  15    4   3   7   1   -  |  17    4   3   9   1   -  |
| 15/ 5 |  12    4   3   3   2   -  |   2    -   -   2   -   -  |  -   -   -   -  |  16    4   3   7   2   -  |  18    4   3   9   2   -  |
| 16/ 4 |  12    4   3   3   2   -  |   2    -   2   -   -   -  |  -   -   -   -  |  16    4   7   3   2   -  |  18    4   9   3   2   -  |
| 17/ 3 |  14    4   3   3   3   1  |   2    -   2   -   -   -  |  -   -   -   -  |  18    4   7   3   3   1  |  20    4   9   3   3   1  |
| 18/ 2 |  14    4   3   3   3   1  |   2    2   -   -   -   -  |  -   -   -   -  |  18    8   3   3   3   1  |  20   10   3   3   3   1  |
| 19/ 1 |  15    4   3   3   3   2  |   1    1   -   -   -   -  |  -   -   -   -  |  17    6   3   3   3   2  |  18    7   3   3   3   2  |
| 20/-- |  15    4   3   3   3   2  |   -    -   -   -   -   -  |  -   -   -   -  |  15    4   3   3   3   2  |  15    4   3   3   3   2  |
+-------+---------------------------+---------------------------+-----------------+---------------------------+---------------------------+

[Escribblings]

What follows is part of my own comprisons to work out where I am going, and as a future reference too...

It only covers the Patron and Oath I have selected, so please don't rely on it for anything else.

I putting it here mainly as a resurce for myself...

Levels	Paladin Oath of Devotion	Warlock The Celestial Patron
-- / 20		• Eldritch Master
1 / 19	• Divine Sense • Lay On Hands	• Ability Score Improvement
2 / 18	• Fighting Style • Spellcasting (1st Level Spells) • Divine Smite	-
3 / 17	• Divine Health • Sacred Oath (of Devotion) Oath Spells Channel Divinity Sacred Weapon Turn the Unholy	9th Level Mystic Arcanum
4 / 16	• Ability Score Improvement	• Ability Score Improvement
5 / 15	• Extra Attack • 2nd Level Spells	• 8th Level Mystic Arcanum
6 / 14	• Aura of Protection	• Celestial Patron Searing Vengeance
7 / 13	• Sacred Oath of Devotion Aura of Devotion	• 7th Level Mystic Arcanum
8 / 12	• Ability Score Improvement	• Ability Score Improvement
9 / 11	• 3rd Level Spells	• 6th Level Mystic Arcanum
10 / 10	• Aura of Courage	• Celestial Patron Celestial Resilience
11 / 9	• Improved Divine Smite	• 5th Level Spells
12 / 8	• Ability Score Improvement	• Ability Score Improvement
13 / 7	• 4th Level Spells	• 4th Level Spells
14 / 6	• Cleansing Touch	• Celestial Patron Radiant Soul
15 / 5	• Sacred Oath of Devotion Purity of Spirit	• 3rd Level Spells
16 / 4	• Ability Score Improvement	• Ability Score Improvement
17 / 3	• 5th Level Spells	• 2nd Level Spells • Pact of the Blade Boon
18 / 2	• Aura Improvements	• Eldritch Invocations
19 / 1	• Ability Score Increase	• Cantrips • 1st Level Spells • Otherworldly Patron, The Celestial Bonus Cantrips Healing Light
20 / --	• Sacred Oath of Devotion Holy Nimbus

Paladin Spells Order of Devotion
1st Level	2nd Level	3rd Level	4th Level	5th Level
• Bless • Command • Compelled Duel • Cure Wounds • Detect Evil and Good • Detect Magic • Detect Poison and Disease • Divine Favor • Heroism • Protection from Evil and Good • Purify Food and Drink • Searing Smite • Shield of Faith • Thunderous Smite • Wrathful Smite • Ceremony XGtE • Sanctuary	• Aid • Branding Smite • Find Steed • Lesser Restoration • Locate Object • Magic Weapon • Protection from Poison • Zone of Truth	• Aura of Vitality • Blinding Smite • Create Food and Water • Crusader's Mantle • Daylight • Dispel Magic • Elemental Weapon • Magic Circle • Remove Curse • Revivify • Beacon of Hope	• Aura of Life • Aura of Purity • Banishment • Death Ward • Locate Creature • Staggering Smite • Find Greater Steed XGtE • Freedom of Movement • Guardian of Faith	• Banishing Smite • Circle of Power • Destructive Wave • Dispel Evil and Good • Geas • Raise Dead • Holy Weapon XGtE • Commune • Flame Strike

Walock Spells The Celestial Patron
1st Level	2nd Level	3rd Level	4th Level	5th Level
• Armor of Agathys • Arms of Hadar • Charm Person • Comprehend Languages • Expeditious Retreat • Hellish Rebuke • Hex • Illusory Script • Protection from Evil and Good • Unseen Servant • Witch Bolt • Cause Fear XGtE • Cure Wounds • Guiding Bolt	• Cloud of Daggers • Crown of Madness • Darkness • Enthrall • Hold Person • Invisibility • Mirror Image • Misty Step • Ray of Enfeeblement • Shatter • Spider Climb • Suggestion • Earthbind EE XGtE • Mind Spike XGtE • Shadow BladeXGtE • Flaming Sphere • Lesser Restoration	• Counterspell • Dispel Magic • Fear • Fly • Gaseous Form • Hunger of Hadar • Hypnotic Pattern • Magic Circle • Major Image • Remove Curse • Tongues • Vampiric Touch • Enemies Abound XGtE • Thunder Step XGtE • Summon Lesser Demons XGtE • Daylight • Revivify	• Banishment • Blight • Dimension Door • Hallucinatory Terrain • Charm Monster XGtE • Elemental Bane EE XGtE • Shadow of Moil XGtE • Sickening Radiance XGtE • Summon Greater Demon XGtE • Guardian of Faith • Wall of Fire	• Contact Other Plane • Dream • Hold Monster • Scrying • Danse Macabre XGtE • Enervation XGtE • Far Step XGtE • Infernal Calling XGtE • Negative Energy Flood XGtE • Synaptic Static XGtE • Wall of Light XGtE • Flame Strike • Greater Restoration

Warlock Cantrips The Celestial Patron and Mystic Arcanum
Cantrips	6th Level	7th Level	8th Level	9th Level
• Blade Ward • Chill Touch • Eldritch Blast • Friends • Mage Hand • Minor Illusion • Poison Spray • Prestidigitation • True Strike • Booming Blade SCAG • Green Flame Blade SCAG • Lightning Lure SCAG • Sword Burst SCAG • Create Bonfire EE XGtE • Frostbite EE XGtE • Infestation XGtE • Magic Stone EE XGtE • Thunderclap EE XGtE • Toll the Dead XGtE • Light • Sacred Flame	• Arcane Gate • Circle of Death • Conjure Fey • Create Undead • Eyebite • Flesh to Stone • Mass Suggestion • True Seeing • lnvestiture of Flame EE XGtE • lnvestiture of Ice EE XGtE • lnvestiture of Stone EE XGtE • lnvestiture of Wind EE XGtE • Mental Prison XGtE • Scatter XGtE • Soul Cage XGtE	• Etherealness • Finger of Death • Forcecage • Plane Shift • Crown of Stars XGtE • Power Word Pain XGtE	• Demiplane • Dominate Monster • Feeblemind • Glibness • Power Word Stun • Maddening Darkness XGtE	• Astral Projection • Foresight • Imprisonment • Power Word Kill • True Polymorph • Psychic Scream XGtE

Eldritch Invocations
2nd Level		3rd Level	5th Level
• Agonizing Blast (Eldritch Blast) • Armor of Shadows • Beast Speech • Beguiling Influence • Devil's Sight • Eldritch Sight • Eldritch Spear (Eldritch Blast) • Eyes of the Rune Keeper • Fiendish Vigor • Gaze of Two Minds • Mask of Many Faces • Mire the Mind • Misty Visions • Repelling Blast (Eldritch Blast) • Theif of Five Fates	Pact of the Chain • Voice of the Chain Master • Gift of the Ever-Living Ones XGtE • Grasp of Hadar (Eldritch Blast) XGtE • Lance of Lethargy (Eldritch Blast) XGtE Pact of the Tome • Book of Ancient Secrets • Aspect of the Moon XGtE	Pact of the Blade • Improved Pact Weapon XGtE	• Dreadful Word • One with Shadows • Sign of Ill Omen • Cloak of Flies XGtE • Gift of the Depths XGtE • Maddening Hex (Hex Spell or Curse Feature) XGtE • Tomb of Levistus XGtE Pact of the Blade • Thirsting Blade • Eldritch Smite XGtE
7th Level	9th Level	12th Level	15th Level
• Bewitching Whispers • Sculptor of Flesh • Ghostly Gaze • Relentless Hex (Hex Spell or Curse Feature) XGtE • Trickster's Escape XGtE	• Ascendent Step • Minions of Chaos • Otherworldly Leap • Whispers of the Grave	Pact of the Blade • Lifedrinker	• Master of Myriad Forms • Visions of Distant Realms • Witch Sight • Shroud of Shadow XGtE Pact of the Chain • Chains of Carceri

Now all I have to do is prioritise what I want out of my charcater ;)

[SkylarkR6]

Gotta say, love the reference tables. I really should make similar ones for my own padlock heh

[Escribblings]

Right - I think I have this sussed now (I hope)

Weighing up the pros and cons, L20 (if I ever get that far) is too long to wait for an ASI/Feat. However, ignoring the ASI at 20 will also delay an ASI at an earlier level.

That being said, I feel I am going to aim for the 11/9 split as suggested above.

I am not willing to give up Improved Divine Smite for an additional 1d8 to ALL my melee attacks on top of any spell slots expended.

By going 11/9 over 12/8 I lose 1 ASI/Feat - BUT my 2 Warlock spell slots inrease from level 4 to level 5 AND I gain 1 invocation (and some of those are equivalent to feats).

Going any higher on the Paladin levels doesn't really gain much in the way of spell slots or slot power, especially as I will be primarily sword and board. And the weakening of the short rest warlock spell slots does not appeal.

Similarly, I do not feel the Mystic Arcanum and additional Patron features and invocations are a fair exchange for giving up Improved Divine Smite. Although, your opinion may differ.

Now I'm not naive enough to believe I will ever get to 20, may not even get past 10 - BUT, I see my progression along the lines of...

P1
P2
P2/W1
P2/W2
P2/W3
P3/W3
P4/W3
P5/W3
P6/W3
P6/W4
P6/W5
P6/W6
P7/W6
P8/W6
P9/W6
P10/W6
P11/W6
P11/W7
P11/W8
P11/W9

What do you think?

[Arkhios]

If I ever made a Paladin/Warlock, I'd definitely aim for EITHER A) Paladin 11/Warlock 9 OR B) Paladin 13/Warlock 7

A) If I really, absolutely, wanted those 5th level warlock spells for whatever reason.

B) If I'm content with having "only" 4th level warlock spells, but also wanted those 4th level paladin spells. Plus, Divine Smite already caps at 4th level spell slot, so warlock's 5th level spell slots aren't really necessary in that regard.

But, at first - at 5th level, I'd probably go for Paladin 4/Warlock 1. Warlock gains quite a bit even from 1st level, such as those cantrips which "bandaid" the lack of extra attack for a while longer.

[Escribblings]

Interesting... I had missed the cap on divine smite...

Question...

Do you think a 2 level dip into fighter for the action surge is worth it? That and second wind are both short rest features and I would get a second fighting style...

Thinking 2/11/7 And taking the 2 levels in fighter first.

[Escribblings]

OK - on reflection the fighter dip isn't worth it...

But I'm still weighing up the the options for levelling up to 5.

Whatever happens I'm starting at P1 for the armour proficiency...

Going sword and board with longsword.

Rolls are 10, 10, 14, 15, 17, 18.

Var Human gives 2 +1's so I have

Str - 18 (+4)
Dex - 14 (+2)
Con - 16 (+3)
Int - 10 (+0)
Wis - (+0)
Cha - 18 (+4)

So to start with I have AC18 and a 1d8+4 to hit

Taking a 2nd level of Paladin gives divine smite and 2 long rest slots with which to use it.

Taking a 3rd level of Paladin gives a 3rd spell slot and for 1 minute per short rest an extra +4 (cha) to attacks.

Whereas taking the 1st level of Warlock adds 1 short rest spell slot and allows cantrips such as Green Flame Blade which adds +4 damage (cha) to a nearby enemy to the one attacked..

Going 2 levels deep into Warlock adds a 2nd short rest slot, and invocations.

Going 3 levels deep gives the pact weapon, the improved pact weapon invocation which adds +1 to attack and damage, and the 2 short rest spell slots increase to level 2.

Whichever way I go to 5, the cantrip Green Flame Blade does an additional 1d8 to both the initial target and one close by. Helping relieve the fact that I have yet to get an extra attack.

P2/W2 gives an attack value of 1d8+5 with a +1 to attack and 4 damage to a second enemy per round, with 2 long and 2 short rest slots to smite with, which is 6 smites a day with 1 short rest, and 8 with 2.

P4 gives an attack value of 1d8+4, only 3 long rest slots to smite with and no cantrips. The only saving grace is 1 per short rest +4 to attacks for 1 minute.

So I *think* I am going to stick to
P2 - P2/W3 - P6/W3 - P6/W6 - P11/W6 - P11/W9

[SkylarkR6]

Your way of thinking seems much less circular then mine but you sussed out all the points the same way I did when I chose 11/9. 5th level slots might be a minor waste for smiting but hold monster can make for some fun times. And for AoA or hex all day if you roll that way

[OldTrees1]

But I'm still weighing up the the options for levelling up to 5.

Taking a 3rd level of Paladin gives a 3rd spell slot and for 1 minute per short rest an extra +4 (cha) to attacks.

Going 2 levels deep into Warlock adds a 2nd short rest slot, and invocations.

Going 3 levels deep gives the pact weapon, the improved pact weapon invocation which adds +1 to attack and damage, and the 2 short rest spell slots increase to level 2.

Whichever way I go to 5, the cantrip Green Flame Blade does an additional 1d8 to both the initial target and one close by. Helping relieve the fact that I have yet to get an extra attack.

P2/W2 gives an attack value of 1d8+5 with a +1 to attack and 4 damage to a second enemy per round, with 2 long and 2 short rest slots to smite with, which is 6 smites a day with 1 short rest, and 8 with 2.

P4 gives an attack value of 1d8+4, only 3 long rest slots to smite with and no cantrips. The only saving grace is 1 per short rest +4 to attacks for 1 minute.

So I *think* I am going to stick to
P2 - P2/W3 - P6/W3 - P6/W6 - P11/W6 - P11/W9

I think the comparison of
P3/W1 --> P4/W1 vs P2/W2 -> P2/W3 is of more relevance than P4 vs P2/W2.

Doing such a comparison depends on knowing what your first second Feat (you missed this in your comparison?) would be spent on.

Edit: I forgot they were a Var Human

Level	Paladin 2 / Warlock 1 / Paladin 2	Paladin 2 / Warlock 3
4th	• Sacred Oath (of Devotion) Oath Spells Channel Divinity Sacred Weapon Turn the Unholy • +1 1st level spell slot per long rest	• Eldritch Invocations ________ ________
4th	• +0 attack, 1d8+4 & 4 • 9 1st level smites if 2 short rests	• +0 attack, 1d8+4 & 4 • 8 1st level smites if 2 short rests
5th	• Feat (+2 Cha or better) • Sacred Oath (of Devotion) Oath Spells Channel Divinity Sacred Weapon Turn the Unholy • +1 1st level spell slot per long rest	• 2nd Level Spells • Pact of the Blade Boon • Eldritch Invocations Improved Pact Weapon ________
5th	• +1 attack, 2d8+5 & 1d8+5 • 9 1st level smites if 2 short rests	• +1 attack, 2d8+5 & 1d8+4 • 2 1st level & 6 2nd level smites

[Escribblings]

Apologies.

My character is Var Human, we have a house rule that the feat isn't granted until L4...

So I'll be getting 1 feat at L4 anyway.

But it's still a valid point...

[OldTrees1]

Apologies.

My character is Var Human, we have a house rule that the feat isn't granted until L4...

So I'll be getting 1 feat at L4 anyway.

But it's still a valid point...

Sorry, I forgot you were Var Human. I guess I meant to talk about your 2nd Feat. Aka the one you get at Paladin 4 (whether that be at Pal 4, Pal 2/War 1/Pal 2, or Pal 2/War 3/Pal 2).

[Escribblings]

I've beeen looking through the feats and tying myself up in knots as there is some crossover with invocations or class abilities.

That said, I'm probably going to take spell sniper at L4, and then elemental adept at P4. My plan is to take Fire - and then negate the most resisted damage in the game.

[OldTrees1]

I've beeen looking through the feats and tying myself up in knots as there is some crossover with invocations or class abilities.

That said, I'm probably going to take spell sniper at L4, and then elemental adept at P4. My plan is to take Fire - and then negate the most resisted damage in the game.

If Elemental Adept is your P4 feat/ASI, then Pal 2/War 3 is the better path to 5th over Pal 2/War 1/Pal 2. The benefit from Improved Pact Weapon will be more valuable than the benefit from Elemental Adept.