Tashalatora / unarmed strike

[schreier]

The tashalatora feat allows you to count a specific psionic class towards ac, flurry of blows, and unarmed damage. None of the prereqs seem to require monk levels.

If you don't have monk levels, do you get improved unarmed strike as a bonus feat? It is mentioned under the paragraph for unarmed damage and is not broken out as a bonus feat on the class table.

My gut says no, but can see it both ways

[Crake]

You aren't going to get a consensus on the topic most likely. There are two trains of thought regarding the feat:

1) Your monk level is 0, plus your psionic levels = gaining monk abilities

2) Your monk level is - and you cannot add to a non-existent number, thus no monk abilities without at least 1 level in monk.

[schreier]

If you go with 2, which I am inclined to do - would you grant improved unarmed strike as part of the "unarmed damage" progression?

[Crake]

If you go with 2, which I am inclined to do - would you grant improved unarmed strike as part of the "unarmed damage" progression?

If I went with 2, tashalatora would do nothing until gaining your first level in monk, so no.

[schreier]

Oops - meant 1 (silly me and my attempting to reply while multitasking)

[ZamielVanWeber]

Going with one, no it would not. Improved Unarmed Strike is a bonus feat granted by monk and Tashlatora does not call out granting it. That being said, your unarmed damage would continue to scale but you would be stuck dealing with the considerable downside of doing unarmed strikes without IUS. That being said you could simply take IUS as a feat on your own and be good.

Also the biggest consequence I can think of of allowing monk level to be 0 instead of NAN will crop up on anima mage. You can enter without binder but progress its abilities and that would be affected by the ruling as well.

[Keld Denar]

Monk2 is VERY feat heavy, any of which you can swap out for Monastic Training to save you from early level sag. If you don't want Imp Grapple or Stunning Fist or Deflect Arrows or whatever, you can swap them out.

It's also worth noting that you don't really need Tash until at LEAST level 6. You'll be SLIGHTLY behind on level 5 if you don't have it, but only slightly. Heck, you might not even really miss it if you wait until 9.

[Andezzar]

Monk2 is VERY feat heavy, any of which you can swap out for Monastic Training to save you from early level sag. If you don't want Imp Grapple or Stunning Fist or Deflect Arrows or whatever, you can swap them out.

Retraining only allows you to exchange one feat for another one that you could have chosen in the first place. So the monk bonus feats can only be exchanged for other monk bonus feats. To truly choose any feat (you meet the prerequisites for) you need to do the DCFS. Good luck finding a level 15+ caster willing to help you at level 1 or 2.

[Dagroth]

Retraining only allows you to exchange one feat for another one that you could have chosen in the first place. So the monk bonus feats can only be exchanged for other monk bonus feats. To truly choose any feat (you meet the prerequisites for) you need to do the DCFS. Good luck finding a level 15+ caster willing to help you at level 1 or 2.

He meant instead of getting the standard Monk Bonus Feat, you could swap it out for Monastic Training at that level... which is a prereq for Tash.

[Crake]

He meant instead of getting the standard Monk Bonus Feat, you could swap it out for Monastic Training at that level... which is a prereq for Tash.

To be more clear, monastic training can be taken as a monk bonus feat at monk level 1, 2 or 6. The use of the word "swap" in this context is just confusing.

Going with one, no it would not. Improved Unarmed Strike is a bonus feat granted by monk and Tashlatora does not call out granting it. That being said, your unarmed damage would continue to scale but you would be stuck dealing with the considerable downside of doing unarmed strikes without IUS. That being said you could simply take IUS as a feat on your own and be good.

Or you could just wear gauntlets. They deal damage equal to your unarmed strike, make you no longer considered unarmed for provoking attacks of opportunity, and allow you to deal lethal damage with your strikes (though you can no longer deal nonlethal damage without taking the standard -4 penalty to attack rolls)