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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default The Wizard (primary non-Vancian spellcasting class replacing all others)

    I had 2 aims for this class (I kept the 'wizard' name since it was easier when copy-pasting everything from the SRD ):

    1) Make a Tier 1 spellcaster that pays the price for being Tier 1 (in this case by being MAD, gaining level adjustment, and more), yet encourages brief dips in it when multiclassing, so that you could end up with a fighter-wizard a la the Witch King from Lord of the Rings or the old AD&D.

    2) Make one holistic "magic" class to subsume all others. I've always been fond of the mystic theurge for breaking down the barriers between arcane and divine magic, and this class takes it much further. It uses the spellpoint mechanic because that appeals to me too- this wizard can spend magic points freely, it's the other restrictions she has to worry about. Clerics, druids, specialist wizards, etc will all still exist, you just have to take the appropriate feats as listed below.

    Before we start, a brief note:

    Spellcasting Bonus: This type of bonus is usually applied to a character's mental ability scores. It improves ability scores solely for the purposes of spellcasting (typically spells memorised, magic points per day and save DCs) but provides no other benefits (nor does it worsen any of a character's Curses of the Magi). Spellcasting bonuses stack with each other.

    Wizard

    Alignment
    Any.

    Hit Die
    d4.

    Class Skills
    The wizard’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).

    Skill Points at 1st Level
    (4 + Int modifier) ×4.

    Skill Points at Each Additional Level
    4 + Int modifier.
    Spoiler: Notes
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    Diplomacy, Heal, and Sense Motive to represent the subtler aspects of wizardry, and more skill points than 3.5 to encourage use of those skills.

    Table: The Wizard
    Saves
    Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Magic Points/Day Maximum Spell Level Known
    1st +0 +0 +0 +0
    Curses of the Magi 2 1st
    2nd +1 +0 +0 +0
    6 1st
    3rd +1 +1 +1 +1 11 1st
    4th +2 +1 +1 +1 17 2nd
    5th +2 +1 +1 +1
    25 2nd
    6th +3 +2 +2 +2
    35 3rd
    7th +3 +2 +2 +2
    46 3rd
    8th +4 +2 +2 +2
    58 4th
    9th +4 +3 +3 +3 Wages of Power (+2 bonus, LA+1) 72 4th
    10th +5 +3 +3 +3
    88 5th
    11th +5 +3 +3 +3
    106 5th
    12th +6/+1 +4 +4 +4 126 6th
    13th +6/+1 +4 +4 +4 147 6th
    14th +7/+2 +4 +4 +4 170 7th
    15th +7/+2 +5 +5 +5 195 7th
    16th +8/+3 +5 +5 +5 221 8th
    17th +8/+3 +5 +5 +5 250 8th
    18th +9/+4 +6 +6 +6 Wages of Power (+4 bonus, LA+2) 280 9th
    19th +9/+4 +6 +6 +6 311 9th
    20th +10/+5 +6 +6 +6
    343 9th
    Spoiler: Notes
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    Note that the wizard has poor saves across the board. Fiction is replete with wizards who were corrupted by power (either their own or from some malign entity); if you want a good Will save you'll have to invest in Wisdom.

    As you can surmise from the table, wizards are a hybrid of 3.5 wizards and psions. The figures given for spell points are by no means set in stone; if the consensus is that the class is too powerful/weak they can be easily adjusted.

    Class Features
    All of the following are class features of the wizard.

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency
    Wizards are proficient with the club, dagger, heavy crossbow, light crossbow, and quarterstaff, but not with any type of armor or shield.
    Spoiler: Note
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    Armor no longer interferes with spellcasting.

    Spells
    A wizard casts spells which are drawn from the master spell list. She can cast any spell she has memorised, and may also cast ritual spells (see Spellbook and Spells Known, below).
    Spoiler: Note
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    The master spell list is all 3.5. spell lists combined. If a spell appears at different levels on different 3.5 spell lists, use the sorcerer/wizard versions. If the spell in question is not a sorcerer/wizard spell, then default to cleric, druid, bard, paladin, and ranger, in that order. If a spell requires a divine focus the wizard must provide one but need not use one of a particular deity unless thay have the Cleric feat.
    Note also that wizards don't have to prepare spells in advance.

    To learn or cast a spell, the wizard must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a wizard’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the wizard’s Charisma modifier.

    To cast a spell a wizard must spend magic points equal to the minimum wizard level needed to know that spell (e.g. 6 magic points for a 3rd-level spell), minus their Wisdom modifier. This may reduce the magic point cost of a spell to 1 but not below. Cantrips cost 0 magic points.

    A wizard's caster level is equal to their class level plus one-half their levels in all other classes plus their Charisma modifier.

    Magic Points/Day
    A wizard’s ability to cast spells is limited by the magic points he has available. His base daily allotment of magic points is given on Table: The Wizard, above. In addition, he receives bonus magic points per day if he has a high Wisdom score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Magic Points, below). His race may also provide bonus magic points per day, as may certain feats and items.

    A wizard automatically regains magic points equal to their Wisdom modifier every hour, and completely regains their total magic points after 8 hours of rest.

    Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Magic Points
    Spoiler: Note
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    Yes I know it's for power points, just play along. I couldn't figure out how to import the table here :D

    Spellbook and Spells Known
    All of a wizard's spells known must be inscribed in their spellbook. Thereafter they are divided into memorised spells and ritual spells.

    Spellbook: A wizard begins play with a spellbook containing all 0-level spells plus three 1st-level spells of your choice. For each point of Intelligence bonus the wizard has, the spellbook holds one additional 1st-level spell of your choice. At any time, a wizard can also add spells found in other wizards’ spellbooks to her own, or research her own spells. There is no limit to how many spellbooks (and corresponding inscribed spells) a wizard may accumulate.
    Spoiler: Note
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    Wizards do NOT gain any new spells when they level up. They must rely on the DM to be generous with scrolls found in hoards/shops or otherwise research their own spells.

    Memorised Spells: These are spells that a wizard has committed to memory. A wizard may memorise a number of spells of each level she can cast equal to her Intelligence modifier, and thereafter may cast them freely without referring to her spellbook. She may replace a memorised spell with a different one from her spellbook by studying her spellbook for one hour per level of the spells to be exchanged.

    Ritual Spell: Wizards can cast spells directly from their spellbooks without having them memorised, but the process is a lengthy and painstaking ritual. For spells with a base casting time of less than one hour, a ritual to cast that spell requires one hour per spell level. For spells with a base casting time greater than one hour, multiply the casting time by the spell level instead to see how long the ritual will take. A wizard must spend twice the usual number of magic points when casting a spell as a ritual, and their spellbook becomes an additional focus component required by the spell during the ritual. All other requirements and effects of a spell cast as a ritual are unchanged.

    Curses of the Magi
    Wizards are an eccentric lot, on the whole; magic and the pursuit of knowledge can often twist the minds of those who are unprepared to pay the price. At first level a wizard gains the three curses listed below.

    Brightest Candle: A wizard's supernatural might risks overwhelming their mortal frame. A wizard subtracts their Wisdom bonus (to a limit of their class level) from their Constitution modifier when determining hit points per die. An undead wizard has an effective Constitution modifier of 0 for this purpose.

    Sagacious Hermit: A wizard's arcane studies stunt their other skills, social and otherwise. A wizard gains a penalty equal to their Intelligence bonus (to a limit of their class level) on all non-Int-based skill checks other than Concentration.
    Spoiler: Note
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    May be kind of a weak curse depending on how you play your character, so the penalty could apply to Concentration too.

    Power Corrupts: In their drive to exert their wills on the universe, wizards overreach and become vulnerable to other influences. A wizard gains a penalty equal to their Charisma bonus (to a limit of their class level) on all saves.

    Wages of Power
    As a wizard grows in magical ability they find it harder and harder to progress further. At 9th level a wizard gains a +2 spellcasting bonus to each of their mental ability scores and a level adjustment of +1. At 18th level this increases to a +4 spellcasting bonus and a level adjustment of +2.
    Spoiler: Note
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    Unless you are a lich with the Phylactery Focus feat, your 9th-level spells will be the capstone for your effectively-20th-level character. And if you ARE a lich, LA+4 says hello.
    Last edited by rferries; 2017-06-24 at 02:54 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: The Wizard (primary non-vancian spellcasting class replacing all others)

    Wizard Feats

    Magic Grace
    Your supernatural powers protect you from harm.

    Prerequisite
    Wizard level 6th

    Benefit
    Add your Charisma bonus to all your saves and as a deflection modifier to your Armor Class. Include any spellcasting bonuses you possess when calculating your Charisma modifier for this purpose.

    Master Magician
    You have overcome some or all of the trials of your profession.

    Prerequisite
    Wizard level 12th

    Ignore the penalties of one of your Curses of the Magi. At 15th level you ignore an additional Curse, and at 18th level you ignore all three Curses.

    Phylactery Focus
    Lichdom has granted you release from the arcane limitations you suffered in life, as your soul has escaped them via your phylactery.

    Prerequisites
    Lich.

    Benefit
    You lose the Curses of the Magi class feature. Ignore the level adjustment increase from the Wages of Power class feature (you retain the spellcasting bonus).

    Special
    If you have taken the Master Magician and/or Resist Power feats, you may replace each of them with any other feat for which you qualify when you take this feat.

    Resist Power
    Unlike other who have practiced sorcery, you had the strength of will to follow other paths as well.

    Prerequisite
    Wizard level 1st.

    Benefit
    While you have fewer levels of wizard than levels in all your other classes combined, you ignore the penalties of the Curses of the Magi class feature.

    Special
    You lose the benefit of this feat if your levels of wizard ever equal or exceed your total levels in all other classes, but can regain it if the reverse ever becomes true again.

    A character may select Resist Power in place of any other bonus feat that would be granted by his class (e.g. as a fighter bonus feat, in place of Unarmed Strike or another other monk bonus feat, etc.).

    Cleric
    You worship a particular deity.

    Prerequisites
    Wizard level 3rd, alignment matching your deity.

    Benefit
    You gain the turn (or rebuke) undead class feature as appropriate for your alignment. You may turn and rebuke outsiders as well, depending on their alignment and the DM's discretion (for example, if your deity is good-aligned you may turn evil outsiders and rebuke good outsiders).

    You gain a +2 spellcasting bonus to your mental ability scores.

    Add one spell of each level you can cast to your spellbook. Each spell you add in this way must come from one of your deity's domains or the 3.5 cleric spell list.

    You may ignore the penalties of one of your Curses of the Magi.

    Special
    You must act in all ways as a loyal member of your deity's religion, advancing the cause whenever possible. If you fail in this duty you lose the benefits of this feat and may suffer additional penalties (at your DM's and deity's discretion) until such time as you atone.

    You may not take this feat more than once unless you posses the Polytheist feat.

    Druid
    You have become a wizard of the wild.

    Prerequisites
    Wizard level 3rd, any neutral alignment

    Benefits
    You gain the wild empathy class feature. You may rebuke and command animals, plant creatures, and elementals as an evil wizard with the cleric feat commands undead.

    You gain a +2 spellcasting bonus to your mental ability scores.

    Add one spell of each level you can cast to your spellbook. Each spell you add in this way must come from the Air, Animal, Earth, Fire, Plant, Sun, Water, or Weather domains or from the druid spell list.

    You may ignore the penalties of one of your Curses of the Magi.

    Survival is always considered a class skill for you. You gain 1 skill point for each cross-class rank you invested in Survival when you take this feat.

    Special
    You must respect and protect the natural world from the depredations of civilisation. You lose the benefits of this feat if you ever act against this ethos until such time as you make amends (at the DM's discretion).

    You may take this feat and the Cleric feat, but the deity you select for the Cleric feat must be a nature or elemental deity unless you also possess the Polytheist feat.

    Implement of Power
    You have imbued an item with some of your own power.

    Prerequisites
    Wizard level 3rd.

    Benefits
    You craft an item or imbue a pre-existing one with magical power. The item can be virtually anything - a weapon, amulet, piece of clothing, crystal ball, even a spellbook or a throne. You may select a magic item to be enhanced by this feat. While you are wielding, bearing, or otherwise in contact with the item you gain a +4 spellcasting bonus to all of your mental ability scores.

    If you lose possession of this item you instead take a -2 spellcasting penalty to all your mental ability scores until you recover it or craft a new one.

    You may transfer this benefit from the item to a new one, or replace a lost or destroyed item in a special ritual lasting 24 hours.

    Special
    You may select this feat more than once. Each time you do, you may apply the benefits to a new item or the same one (and may later merge or split the benefits between items as you choose via the ritual).

    Necromancer
    You are adept at the magic of the dead.

    Prerequisite
    Wizard level 3rd.

    Benefits
    You gain a +2 spellcasting bonus to each of your mental ability scores. Add one spell of the Necromancy school to your spellbook for each spell level you can cast.

    You may rebuke and command undead as an evil wizard with the Cleric feat. Undead you create are automatically commanded (unless you choose to free them or their HD exceeds the maximum HD of undead you can command).

    Polytheist
    You don't believe in limiting your beliefs.

    Prerequisite
    Wizard level 6th, Cleric.

    Benefit
    You gain a +2 spellcasting bonus to each of your mental ability scores.

    You may select the Cleric feat more than once, each time selecting a different deity. Your alignment does not have to match those of your deities but must be within one step of theirs on each axis. Deities you select for the Cleric feat should be allied or at least friendly with each other.

    Summon Familiar
    You acquire the service of a familiar, and having such a friend helps you centre yourself.

    Prerequisite
    Wizard level 3rd.

    Benefits
    You gain the summon familiar class feature.

    While your familiar is within one mile of you, the penalties for all your Curses of the Magi are reduced by 2.

    Special
    If you are 18th level and have selected the Master Magician feat, this feat insteads grants you a +2 spellcasting bonus to all your mental ability scores.
    Last edited by rferries; 2017-05-04 at 12:00 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: The Wizard (primary non-vancian spellcasting class replacing all others)

    Whew! In summary:

    Pros
    -spell point variant for more versatility than the base caster classes, including regenerating points and point cost reduction
    -no Arcane Spell Failure Chance for armor
    -healing magic useable by any character type
    -two sets of spells (innate/memorised spells like a sorcerer, but can refer to spellbook for others like a wizard albeit at the cost of time)
    -multiclass-friendly

    Cons
    -MAD as hell
    -no good saves
    -self-inflicted Curses that will gobble up your feats or encourage you to branch out into other classes
    -built-in level adjustment
    -no free spells known after 1st level (hope you have cash to burn on all the research/scrolls you'll need!)
    -slow spell progression (as sorcerer), even aside from the level adjustment


    Potential Edits and Houserules

    Any [General] feat that grants a bonus to two skills based off of the same ability modifier grants a +2 spellcasting bonus to that ability. For example, Alertness grants a +2 spellcasting bonus to Wisdom. This could be expanded to other feats and is intended to offset the MAD nature of this wizard class.

    Whenever a wizard casts a spell,they must wait 1d4 rounds (or minutes, or longer) before casting the same spell or a spell of the same school. Magic doesn't appreciate being spammed over and over.

    Magic point regeneration is intended to avoid the "our wizard is out of spells so the adventuring day is over" phenomenon. It may be too strong (or too weak, in which it could be increased to regaining points every minute or even round), perhaps out of combat. Similarly, the cost reduction granted by your Wisdom modifier could be increased, reduced, or removed.

    There's a lot of room for growth in the feats - additional Druid feats in a chain could provide an animal companion, wildshape, etc.; a Master Necromancer feat could increase or remove the cap on the HD and types of undead you can command, a High Priest feat could grant a cleric all his deity's domains' granted powers etc. Note that the divine feats (Cleric, Necromancer, Polytheist) alleviate the Curses of the Magi in exchange for your service, whereas the one specialist feat I've posted (Necromancer) doesn't protect you from your ambition...

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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: The Wizard (primary non-vancian spellcasting class replacing all others)

    First off this is a beautiful piece of home brew, absolutely everything in it is amazing, and in my opinion a much more interesting spell caster than the normal wizard and cleric. Secondly is there any way you would convert this to pathfinder?

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    Devil

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    Default Re: The Wizard (primary non-vancian spellcasting class replacing all others)

    Quote Originally Posted by Digitalfruitz View Post
    First off this is a beautiful piece of home brew, absolutely everything in it is amazing, and in my opinion a much more interesting spell caster than the normal wizard and cleric. Secondly is there any way you would convert this to pathfinder?
    To convert it over all you have to do really is change the class skills and then decide how your group handled the change LA took from 3.5 to PF.

    I do think that the fact that you take a penalty to your max hp, all non int skills, anhp d then having all bad saves, AND then a penalty to ALL saves from a stat you need for the class to function and the class forces it to go up. Your saves at 20 if you start with a 10 in all stats are a grand total of +4. You litteraly couldn't resist anything that's coming at you.
    Then with the hp (assuming 10 con/wis at 1) you have a measly 36 hp at level 20, IF you got max to every level.
    Then you literally can't do anything that isn't an not based skill at 20 because it's your primary stat, and then it gets a +4 So getting a modifier of 6 or higher would be pretty trivial, you'd by taking anything from -6 to -10 to do literally anything outside of think.
    The idea is there and cool, but the execution executed the playability of this class.
    Last edited by nikkoli; 2017-05-03 at 08:04 PM.

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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: The Wizard (primary non-vancian spellcasting class replacing all others)

    While I like the premise, I think you went waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overboard with the nerfs. Giving them literally every spell in the book and then adding super-harsh penalties doesn't make for good class design, IMO.
    Last edited by Lemmy; 2017-05-03 at 08:20 PM.
    Homebrew Stuff:

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: The Wizard (primary non-vancian spellcasting class replacing all others)

    Good, except for one problem:

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use.
    Spoiler: Quotes in the Playground!
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    Quote Originally Posted by JumboWheat01 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    Welcome to the Dark Side. We have scented hand towels.
    I thought you were supposed to have cookies. I was promised cookies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    Speaking as a necromancer, I just don't get why people can't leave a guy to raise a family in peace.

    And they get all offended when I take some commonly-given advice and go out to make new friends.





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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: The Wizard (primary non-vancian spellcasting class replacing all others)

    While it is an interesting take on the wizard archetype, the class isn't very well suited for adventuring. As a NPC it would probably work quite well as the DM can use various divinations to give the wizard ample time to prepare for any upcoming encounters, but in most campaigns the players typically don't have the time (or want to take the time) to spend weeks on divining whatever possible threats the future might hold and then spend another couple of weeks preparing for said threats.

    As pointed out, the drawbacks make this wizard a glass cannon which will be easily neutralised unless he has prepared exactly the right spells for the occasion, and even then a single save-or-lose spell will probably put him out of action in the first round of combat.

    The way I see it, this class will either stomp everything in its way, given enough time and information, or be utterly crushed when faced with something it did not prepare properly for. Neither scenario sounds like a lot of fun for a group of players.

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    khadgar567's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Wizard (primary non-vancian spellcasting class replacing all others)

    this is beautiful best wizard class i ever see keep up the good spanking LMAO from sheer similarities with my style of thinking
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Shadow View Post
    Threads are like cats. They go where they want, and never listen to what you want them to do.


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    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Wizard (primary non-vancian spellcasting class replacing all others)

    What if a warforged getting the wages of power effect try to get rid of the la by using incarnate construct?
    Last edited by noob; 2017-05-04 at 09:20 AM.

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    Devil

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    Default Re: The Wizard (primary non-vancian spellcasting class replacing all others)

    Quote Originally Posted by noob View Post
    What if a warforged getting the wages of power effect try to get rid of the la by using incarnate construct?
    Can you use incarnate construct on constructs with the living subtype?
    Side note, since it doesn't say "spellcasting" nonuses to mental stats stack takeing any of the feats isn't going to give that boost after level 9. It's even better to PRC out of this sooner than wizard because the penalties are capped at class level, which when PRC stacking you usually only have 5 base class levels, and you don't have to take any LA. Also the fact that the class has LA built into it discourages multiclassing because you lose even more levels of the class.
    Last edited by nikkoli; 2017-05-04 at 10:14 AM.

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    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Wizard (primary non-vancian spellcasting class replacing all others)

    I forgot if it was allowed but what I meant was that a construct with ecl lower than 1 could then be incarnated.

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: The Wizard (primary non-vancian spellcasting class replacing all others)

    Thanks everyone for the feedback! A common thread seems to be that people think the Curses are harsh (which they're intended to be), but I want to make sure that everyone noticed the various feats to ameliorate them at low levels (Cleric and Druid if you want to be "divine", Summon Familiar if you want to be "arcane", or both), plus Master Magician/Phylactery focus for higher levels. I envisaged a low-level character overcoming the Constitution curse first, then the Saves curse, and finally the Skills curse when/if they felt like it.

    Note that Magic Grace in particular overcomes the Saves curse and exceeds it (since the includes spellcasting bonuses and an AC bonus).

    Note also that this class is MAD but you can select your ability scores to minimise your weaknesses at character creation. e.g. go for average or low Wisdom if you want to preserve your hp at the cost of spellpoints, etc. The spellcasting bonus feats you take later will reduce the MADness once you've survived the first few levels.

    Of course, if everyone's well-aware of the ameliorating feats and still thinks they aren't sufficient, I could lower their prerequisites!

    Quote Originally Posted by nikkoli View Post
    Can you use incarnate construct on constructs with the living subtype?
    Side note, since it doesn't say "spellcasting" nonuses to mental stats stack takeing any of the feats isn't going to give that boost after level 9. It's even better to PRC out of this sooner than wizard because the penalties are capped at class level, which when PRC stacking you usually only have 5 base class levels, and you don't have to take any LA. Also the fact that the class has LA built into it discourages multiclassing because you lose even more levels of the class.
    Spellcasting bonuses do stack (see "spellcasting bonus" way at the top), a la dodge bonuses.

    PRCs would be revised or eliminated in a system using this wizard, or more likely broken down into more feats that the wizard could use e.g. an Archmage feat. There's probably too may conflicts otherwise.

    Multiclassing will cost you higher-level spells, but you have up to 8 levels of wizard (and get 4th-level spells) without incurring any LA and use the Resist Power feat to ignore the curses. If you build it right you could have a Fighter 9/Wizard 8 "paladin" or "Witch-King" etc. depending on your character theme and spell selection.

    Note also for multiclassing I'm considering making caster level = wizard level plus 3/4s of your other levels (the example Witch-King would have CL 12 + Cha mod for a 17th-level character, whereas with 3/4 CL it would be 14 + Cha mod).
    Last edited by rferries; 2017-05-04 at 08:15 PM.

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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: The Wizard (primary non-vancian spellcasting class replacing all others)

    Quote Originally Posted by rferries View Post
    Thanks everyone for the feedback! A common thread seems to be that people think the Curses are harsh (which they're intended to be), but I want to make sure that everyone noticed the various feats to ameliorate them at low levels (Cleric and Druid if you want to be "divine", Summon Familiar if you want to be "arcane", or both), plus Master Magician/Phylactery focus for higher levels. I envisaged a low-level character overcoming the Constitution curse first, then the Saves curse, and finally the Skills curse when/if they felt like it.

    Note that Magic Grace in particular overcomes the Saves curse and exceeds it (since the includes spellcasting bonuses and an AC bonus).
    You see... The problem with that is that it makes the curses completely pointless. It's no longer an actual mechanic... It's a feat tax. Besides, generally speaking, it isn't at low-levels that caster power becomes an issue, so giving them at bunch of harsh penalties right at the start is unnecessary and extra harsh.

    Right now, each curse is either way too harsh, completely pointless (except as a feat tax) or both.

    I like the general idea of the homebrew, I really do. And I think there's a lot of potential here... But the execution is too punishing to make it work.
    Homebrew Stuff:

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: The Wizard (primary non-vancian spellcasting class replacing all others)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    You see... The problem with that is that it makes the curses completely pointless. It's no longer an actual mechanic... It's a feat tax. Besides, generally speaking, it isn't at low-levels that caster power becomes an issue, so giving them at bunch of harsh penalties right at the start is unnecessary and extra harsh.

    Right now, each curse is either way too harsh, completely pointless (except as a feat tax) or both.

    I like the general idea of the homebrew, I really do. And I think there's a lot of potential here... But the execution is too punishing to make it work.
    Right then! Which (if any) of these solutions would make the class more playable?

    1) Removing the curses entirely. Arguably since this class will exist in a caster vacuum by replacing all the others it needn't be balanced against them.

    2) Pushing the curses back to later levels, and/or spacing them out so they are only gained one at a time (presumably at PC's choice).

    3) Removing the LA. I'm loathe to do this; the idea was to make 9th-level spells a capstone and to keep the wizard from COMPLETELY outdoing non-casters of equivalent level.

    3) Replacing the curses and/or LA with something else entirely.

    4) Scrapping the class and trying again from scratch. No harm no foul, sometimes the patient dies on the operating table :D

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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: The Wizard (primary non-vancian spellcasting class replacing all others)

    Quote Originally Posted by rferries View Post
    3) Removing the LA. I'm loathe to do this; the idea was to make 9th-level spells a capstone and to keep the wizard from COMPLETELY outdoing non-casters of equivalent level.
    Any caster with access to all spells in the game will completely rofl-stomp any other class given enough time, and 'enough time' happens to be exactly 1 week.

    The curses makes the class annoying to play as a 'regular' adventurer while the crazy spell access ensures that any player skilled enough to survive won't need a party.

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    Default Re: The Wizard (primary non-vancian spellcasting class replacing all others)

    Quote Originally Posted by fire_insideout View Post
    Any caster with access to all spells in the game will completely rofl-stomp any other class given enough time, and 'enough time' happens to be exactly 1 week.

    The curses makes the class annoying to play as a 'regular' adventurer while the crazy spell access ensures that any player skilled enough to survive won't need a party.
    Ha, point! In fairness that's at 20th level for this wizard though, and that's practically as hard as balancing epic characters so I'm not really going to attempt it.

    At earlier levels tier 1 casters generally start to outperform noncasters around levels 7-9, hence the first LA being applied then. The idea is to slow them down enough that they don't outpace noncasters by too much; should more LA be added and/or should I edit the levels at which LA is applied? Same with curses?

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    Default Re: The Wizard (primary non-Vancian spellcasting class replacing all others)

    I've got to say I love what you've done! I use a very similar system, but in many ways it's very different too, being a point buy system that allows characters to "purchase" any 'special' class feature, feat, etc, but the magic system is exactly the same.

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    Default Re: The Wizard (primary non-Vancian spellcasting class replacing all others)

    Quote Originally Posted by AOKost View Post
    I've got to say I love what you've done! I use a very similar system, but in many ways it's very different too, being a point buy system that allows characters to "purchase" any 'special' class feature, feat, etc, but the magic system is exactly the same.
    Ha, the ultimate versatility! Any character can do anything (but not everything). Cool system, and thanks for the comment.

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    Default Re: The Wizard (primary non-vancian spellcasting class replacing all others)

    Quote Originally Posted by rferries View Post
    Ha, point! In fairness that's at 20th level for this wizard though, and that's practically as hard as balancing epic characters so I'm not really going to attempt it.

    At earlier levels tier 1 casters generally start to outperform noncasters around levels 7-9, hence the first LA being applied then. The idea is to slow them down enough that they don't outpace noncasters by too much; should more LA be added and/or should I edit the levels at which LA is applied? Same with curses?
    Well, the problem with this class, as I explained before, is that in the hands of a skilled player it'll completely steam roll every encounter, perhaps even from very low levels (since you can access every no-save-you-lose spell ever printed) and once you reach, as you say, the 7-9 range no other class can match this. This is assuming that the player has a good grasp of the rules and spells available, and how to apply them in different situations. If you on the other hand put this class in the hands of a new player it'll probably result in a character death since it's quite squishy and the win buttons are spread across multiple splat books.

    In short, this is a class that increases the issues that the wizards have (low optimization floor, extremely high ceiling), and it's something I generally not enjoy playing or DM:ing.

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    Default Re: The Wizard (primary non-vancian spellcasting class replacing all others)

    Quote Originally Posted by fire_insideout View Post
    Well, the problem with this class, as I explained before, is that in the hands of a skilled player it'll completely steam roll every encounter, perhaps even from very low levels (since you can access every no-save-you-lose spell ever printed) and once you reach, as you say, the 7-9 range no other class can match this. This is assuming that the player has a good grasp of the rules and spells available, and how to apply them in different situations. If you on the other hand put this class in the hands of a new player it'll probably result in a character death since it's quite squishy and the win buttons are spread across multiple splat books.

    In short, this is a class that increases the issues that the wizards have (low optimization floor, extremely high ceiling), and it's something I generally not enjoy playing or DM:ing.
    That's a valid criticism, but I'd like to point out that this wizard can only buy and research spells; it doesn't get any from leveling up and therefore everything is subject to DM approval (I'd hope that a fair DM would give blanket authorization for all core spells though!). In a sense this is a burden on the DM -but then, if it's the kind of player who's looking for every OP esoteric spell they'd probably be doing that already with the 3.5 wizard.

    Munchkinism is always a horrible disease but I think this class safely averts it. I think the other part of your criticism is probably more applicable - the class might be too unfriendly for less experienced players, so I may remove the curses entirely or give the class something like a warlock's eldritch strike.

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