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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    1dominator's Avatar

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    Default Re: What's good in AV software these days?

    The best and most reliable defense against ransomware is to backup your data on a removable media of some sort, on a remote server or an isolated machine. As long as you do that regularly you will always be able to retrieve almost anything the malware encrypts.

    To anyone reading this thread, I would be wary of relying on the advice in this thread. Security is definitely not my field and I have not by any means read the entire thread, but of the things I have read nothing has inspired in me any great confidence. There is some really silly and pompous stuff in here.

    I would advise you look through dedicated tech forms, or perhaps try to find something on stackexchange.com which is a site that has served me very well on technical matters. Note that it may not be very comforting, I believe the general consensus is that no AV software is particularly reliable and that the best defense is prudent and cautious behaviour.

    Personally, I use Avast as an active AV and malwarebytes for scans when I feel I need them.
    Last edited by 1dominator; 2017-05-16 at 12:27 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: What's good in AV software these days?

    Quote Originally Posted by scalyfreak View Post
    How many self-made geeks do you know who recommend McAfee? No one in this thread has suggested it. Do you have a link that proves Avast, AVG, Avira, or BitDfender, have the same problem?
    No, I don't have any proof of similar issues. I also don't have any way of monitoring what resources antivirus software is actually using, because they typically inject their behaviour into other applications. The Norton example is worth mentioning because it was particularly severe, and looked like a memory leak in firefox.

    I should make clear that this is not advice. It is a general rant on the mercenary nature of AV software. I run linux on my main computer, and refresh windows periodically on my old one, (I don't need malware to break it!). I am simply commenting that there is no 'good' AV, at least as far as developers are concerned. AV insists on an interface to the inards of all software, and the existance of such an interface is inherently insecure. As a developer you can either attempt to seal off your software, in which case AV will just hack it's way in (leaving an entrance), or deliberately open up an attack surface.

    AV companies hamstring and hold to ransom developers, no matter how good their intentions.

    The third party thing is about modularity. Modules from different developers are fine, that's the whole point. Companies that were not involved in the development of a module modifying that module is not. 3rd party security experts being involved in the creation of software is to be encouraged, but once that software is in the wild it should not have more than one developer with access to it's behavior. AV breaks down modularity.


    As for not having a virus for 6 or 7 year, how do you know it is doing anything then? With no confirmed positives, how do you know that the flags it is throwing are not false positives (in the sense that the exploits they aim at would not work on your computer anyway)? It's the old "not been ill for years, must be this snake oil" line of logic. Not saying that AV doesn't work, just that you can't know if you are safer without it without trying to go without it.

    I'm also not a security expert, but there certainly are experts who are advocating this approach. Personally I work on the assumption that I am not safe either way, and then try the option that avoids overheads that may be unneccesary (I need to guard against failure either way anyway). It is a question of being able to afford the risk. I certainly can, and it has not bitten me yet.
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    ElfRogueGirl

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    Default Re: What's good in AV software these days?

    Quote Originally Posted by ace rooster View Post
    I should make clear that this is not advice. It is a general rant on the mercenary nature of AV software.
    As opposed to other kinds of software, that isn't in any way at all attempting to make a profit for its developers? You make less sense with every post you make.

    We can go in circles about this forever... OP's question has been answered by those who actually attempted to give helpful advice. Hopefully anyone else who comes to this thread looking for just that is smart enough to see through the white noise and obfuscation and benefit from the helpful suggestions that some of the posters have given.
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  4. - Top - End - #34
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: What's good in AV software these days?

    Quote Originally Posted by Avilan the Grey View Post
    Oh third party AV's does indeed protect against it. It's called "Ransom Ware Protection" and is most definitely part of BitDefender (and I assume Norton).
    All of this reminds me of old frontier guys, or rather wannabe old frontier guys: "You can't trust your fancy security system or the police to do your work! The only thing that makes me sleep well at night is not sleeping at night but patroling my yard with my shotgun!".
    I mean yes, I know what I'm doing, but BitDefender still jumps to the rescue from time to time (mainly blocking suspect webpages; so far I have not had an infected file on my computer for 6 or 7 years).
    Yep, ditto. I'm a sophisticated PC user, but even I can get fooled at times.

    I inadvertently got my PC infected with a bug back a few months ago. It was a clever thing, too - nothing detected it, and it only installed the payload a full 24 hours afterwards. Windows Defender didn't stop the payload from installing (though it kept trying to kill the process, which is how I knew I had a problem in the first place.) What's more, my usual stand-by for removal - Hitman Pro - didn't even detect it. I was able to do a manual removal with some process-killers and file unlockers, and then MalwareBytes took care of the remnants. Little to no damage was done, fortunately. This could have been ransomware instead of a random trojan trying (and failing) to steal my bank info.

    Moral of the story - I bought a subscription to BitDefender that night, and slept more soundly. The ability to have it installed on my PC, my laptop, and my 70-year-old parents' laptop for like $25 a year was a no-brainer. Since then it's killed a few suspicious web pages.
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  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: What's good in AV software these days?

    Quote Originally Posted by ace rooster View Post
    It is a general rant on the mercenary nature of AV software.
    What mercenary nature?
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  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: What's good in AV software these days?

    I switched to a DNS service with some basic protection too, as extra security. Meaning it blocks known phishing sites and weird redirects. I also opted in on filter for known adware and spam sites.
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  7. - Top - End - #37
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    ElfPirate

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    Default Re: What's good in AV software these days?

    Quote Originally Posted by Avilan the Grey View Post
    What mercenary nature?
    I would assume it refers to the propensity for AV programs to play up their usefullness. I've seen them "overreport" threats, often you'll get the same kind of message for say tracking cookies as actual honest viruses.

    And the whole spiel to sign up to ever more services. I get that AVG Free kinda has to bug me for upselling, but that can continue even if you buy a product.

    Oh, and if you want to get rid of an AV installation they are as tenacious as viruses.

  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: What's good in AV software these days?

    Oh I recognize that, but again it depends on the product. Bitdefender and Norton are quiet as soon as you purchase their product.
    (I have Internet Security and could upgrade to Ultimate but Bitdefender never bugs me about it or the fact that I have turned off the anti-spam). Also never yells about tracking cookies. If you run a free malware scanner though you usually get 500+ warnings about security threats that are just normal cookies.

    Though you of course can cut down on those as well if you block most tracking in your browser.
    Last edited by Avilan the Grey; 2017-05-18 at 03:13 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: What's good in AV software these days?

    Quote Originally Posted by snowblizz View Post
    I would assume it refers to the propensity for AV programs to play up their usefullness. I've seen them "overreport" threats, often you'll get the same kind of message for say tracking cookies as actual honest viruses.

    And the whole spiel to sign up to ever more services. I get that AVG Free kinda has to bug me for upselling, but that can continue even if you buy a product.
    I like to call it the Shareholder death spiral. Shareholders want more dividends, making a quality product and keeping up with the current threats takes a back seat to marketing and adding as much bloated "Added product value" as possible, until eventually the antivirus is so bloated it slows your computer down. As insult to injury, around this time it will also start displaying a dialog box that you can't get rid of, containing an advertisement the devs based on a "system optimizer" malware they saw a few weeks ago- with a little bit of customization detailing how it can speed up their shareholder earnings your computer for you if you just buy this one extra feature.
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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: What's good in AV software these days?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alent View Post
    I like to call it the Shareholder death spiral. Shareholders want more dividends, making a quality product and keeping up with the current threats takes a back seat to marketing and adding as much bloated "Added product value" as possible, until eventually the antivirus is so bloated it slows your computer down. As insult to injury, around this time it will also start displaying a dialog box that you can't get rid of, containing an advertisement the devs based on a "system optimizer" malware they saw a few weeks ago- with a little bit of customization detailing how it can speed up their shareholder earnings your computer for you if you just buy this one extra feature.
    Again, in my experience only products that have a free option do that.
    Avira, Avast and AVG among others.
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  11. - Top - End - #41
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    ElfRogueGirl

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    Default Re: What's good in AV software these days?

    Quote Originally Posted by Avilan the Grey View Post
    Again, in my experience only products that have a free option do that.
    Avira, Avast and AVG among others.
    This.

    Personally, I found Avira and AVG to be a lot more persistent and annoying than Avast, but that is of course up to personal preference in the end. I am currently happy with my free version of BitDefender, and have yet to see a single nagging ad.
    I say we can go where we want to, a place where they will never find. And we can act like we come from out of this world, leave the real one far behind. We can dance.

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  12. - Top - End - #42
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: What's good in AV software these days?

    Quote Originally Posted by Avilan the Grey View Post
    Again, in my experience only products that have a free option do that.
    Avira, Avast and AVG among others.
    This matches my experience, too.

    The only annoyance with BitDefender is that it wants me to use its sandboxed web browser for financial sites. It's easy enough to turn off, though.
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  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: What's good in AV software these days?

    Quote Originally Posted by Avilan the Grey View Post
    Again, in my experience only products that have a free option do that.
    Avira, Avast and AVG among others.
    They've all done it at varying points in time. Last time I saw Norton AV it was advertising their online backup service with excessive toast notifications that ignored the disable checkmark while breaking TCP/IP because their firewall broke, and McAfee has a longstanding tradition of releasing nagware along with every copy of Adobe Acrobat Reader ever, just for the easy starters.

    If they don't do it now, they will in the future when their shareholders get antsy because numbers are down.
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  14. - Top - End - #44
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: What's good in AV software these days?

    I don't think you can make general pronouncements about AV software based on Norton, which is now and always has been a terrible piece of software. I'd rather put Wannacry on my machine than Norton--it gets broken either way, but at least Wannacry isn't pretending to do anything good!

  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: What's good in AV software these days?

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    I don't think you can make general pronouncements about AV software based on Norton, which is now and always has been a terrible piece of software. I'd rather put Wannacry on my machine than Norton--it gets broken either way, but at least Wannacry isn't pretending to do anything good!
    Have you used Norton the last 5 years? Norton went from Good to Terrible and had a terrible reputation between 10 and 5 years ago (approx). Nowadays it is really good and constantly up among the top 3 in all AV tests.
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  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Default Re: What's good in AV software these days?

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    I don't think you can make general pronouncements about AV software based on Norton, which is now and always has been a terrible piece of software. I'd rather put Wannacry on my machine than Norton--it gets broken either way, but at least Wannacry isn't pretending to do anything good!
    Others had already been pointed out how naggy the A* free antiviruses were. I didn't think I needed to rehash that or tirade about every naggy AV I've ever used was, just point out that every antivirus will become naggy and unviable eventually.

    Quote Originally Posted by Avilan the Grey View Post
    Have you used Norton the last 5 years? Norton went from Good to Terrible and had a terrible reputation between 10 and 5 years ago (approx). Nowadays it is really good and constantly up among the top 3 in all AV tests.
    Symantec's taken that program from Good to Terrible so many times that it isn't a question of "if" but "when" it becomes unusable again. Trust them at your own peril.
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  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Default Re: What's good in AV software these days?

    Quote Originally Posted by Winter_Wolf View Post
    ... Question for Domochevsky/Sandboxie users, how well does it play with AV? I'd like to cover my bases, seems from my experience (limited yet first hand via family--or is that secondhand?) that Win10 is prone to getting smacked around by seemingly innocuous things. Then again said users have 10 Home and I'm hopeful that my planned upgrade to Pro will help a little.
    ...
    Pretty well, I'd say. It tries to not get in the way of AV programs, due to the way it works at the low level.

    (Btw, upgrading from Home to Pro is likely gonna do very little beyond unlock various features and allowing you to disable more things. It's not gonna make it more secure.)
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  18. - Top - End - #48
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: What's good in AV software these days?

    Quote Originally Posted by Domochevsky View Post
    Pretty well, I'd say. It tries to not get in the way of AV programs, due to the way it works at the low level.

    (Btw, upgrading from Home to Pro is likely gonna do very little beyond unlock various features and allowing you to disable more things. It's not gonna make it more secure.)
    Going for the pro upgrade is not about making it secure. It's about the features and disabling more things.

    In any case, I do more "high risk" online stuff than my mother, but she's the one who gets viruses, malware, and ransom ware on a regular basis. When I had to do a clean reinstall for her the last time, I gave her all the tools and showed her how to use them. That she chose not to use them was her choice. When she told me about the ransomware scam she fell for (she had no clue until I clued her in), I decided I have to wash my hands of trying to save her computer. It's like a person dying of thirst in the desert refusing water. Whereas I actually implement security practices and programs.
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  19. - Top - End - #49
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: What's good in AV software these days?

    Quote Originally Posted by Avilan the Grey View Post
    Oh third party AV's does indeed protect against it. It's called "Ransom Ware Protection" and is most definitely part of BitDefender (and I assume Norton).
    Wannacry is covered by the IPS module in Symantec/Norton.
    General ransomware protection is not very reliable yet. Threats tend to be polymorphic and/or based on commercial encryption software that is difficult to blacklist without risking a lot of false positives.
    Besides black hats are putting more resources into ransom-/extortion-ware, since it pays well. The number of attacks has been growing exponentially for the last few years.

    A year or so ago Sophos developed a new type of ransomware defense that is called Intercept X.
    Instead of relying on file fingerprinting or meta-behaviour, it actually keeps an eye on your files and checks if they start getting encrypted. If so, it takes backup copies of the affected files, and asks the user after a number of files have been encrypted if they want to allow the detected behaviour to continue.
    Haven't checked it out yet, but the idea seems sound, and the reviews I've read were pretty favorable.
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  20. - Top - End - #50
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: What's good in AV software these days?

    Quote Originally Posted by Misereor View Post
    Wannacry is covered by the IPS module in Symantec/Norton.
    It was also preemptivly blocked by Microsoft more than a month before it hit, because they identified and patched the vulnerability that it used. The only people that got hit were Windows pirates (who don't get updates), people that took measures to block Windows Update, and people with no-longer-supported versions of Windows (which don't get regular patches, although Microsoft did release an anti-Wannacry patch for XP when the ransomware hit).

  21. - Top - End - #51
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: What's good in AV software these days?

    Actually, Windows XP didn't really get hit by Wannacry, mainly because it would usually bluescreen when the worm hit rather than getting infected. It was newer versions of Windows that were not kept up to date that were the main problem.

  22. - Top - End - #52
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: What's good in AV software these days?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnoman View Post
    The only people that got hit were Windows pirates (who don't get updates), people that took measures to block Windows Update, and people with no-longer-supported versions of Windows (which don't get regular patches
    And institutions who have a low compliance rate for their patch process.
    Unfortunately there are quite a few of those, but they often keep their mouths shut to avoid broadcasting their incompetence.
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