Would you recommend Starcraft II?

[Astrella]

So I've been looking for a new RTS and saw that the Starcraft II collection is only 40 euros right now and I was wondering if you'd recommend it. I know there's been a lot of debate on how it compares with the original so I'm not sure if it'd be worthwile but as I see it it's also 3 campaigns and there aren't many rts's out there.

[The Glyphstone]

If you like the single-player campaigns, I'd definitely get it. The story is good, if you're willing to accept Blizzard playing a bit fast and loose with previously established mythology ( ret-conning "canon" OOC lore), and each of the three games in the trilogy has as much SP content as the original game+xpac. At 40E, it's probably worth the buy.

[Psyren]

I would probably wait for a little further into the summer as most of the big publishers time their sales to be around when Steam does it these days, but overall yes, the game is worth it. In particular I'd recommend the co-op challenge modes that have you join forces with a friend and complete various objectives against AI opponents, and level up a champion with unique abilities (some of whom are represented by a "hero unit" in the game you can control, and some who are not) taken from the story campaign.

Also, the game is still getting content today; the co-op mode I mentioned just released Fenix as a new commander recently. Now that I've beaten Mass Effect Andromeda, I plan to get more into this game mode myself, and also play through the whole campaign end to end.

[Iruka]

Blizzard offers a free trial version of SC II. You can play three of the Co-op commanders, unranked multyplayer games and the beginning of one campaign, IIRC.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Absolutely recommend, but just go check out the trial IMO. But from my perspective, SCII came with some much-needed user interface improvements (and more sensible pathfinding for units, which is a bigger deal than you'd think), a spiffy graphical overhaul, and some shiny new units.

Also, the original is currently free, and I'd recommend checking out the campaigns (six!) there if you haven't.

[Psyren]

There are also mods like Starcraft Mass Recall that let you basically play through SC1 inside of SC2's engine.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

My two cents:

If you have not yet played the original Starcraft and Broodwars, do so first. As someone earlier linked, it's completely free now. Download it, play it. Yes, the graphics are from over a decade ago, but the story is amazing, and the controls aren't really all that bad.

Now, having played Starcraft and Brood Wars, ask yourself: Do you want more of this in 1080p with even more interesting units and with a plotline that goes from amazing (Wings of Liberty) to okay (Heart of the Swarm) to completely Bethesda-esque awful (Legacy of the Void)? If so, put your money down.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I never played the originals, but have enjoyed the heck out of SCII after a friend recommended it to me. It's a fairly demanding game, at least compared to what I'm used to, but I always have fun playing it, whether trying to complete the single player achievements or improving my hopelessly bad multiplayer skills. As others have said, Blizzard offers a trial version free, where you can actually do a fair amount of the game, and more if you have a friend with the game.

[Vitruviansquid]

It's not just that I'd recommend Starcraft II if you want a new RTS.

It's that I don't even know if I'd recommend anything else besides Starcraft II.

Besides Starcraft 2, there are a few fossils from a bygone age you could dig up - Starcraft 1 and Brood War, Age of Empires 2, Age of Mythology, Dawn of War 2

There are a few new franchises like Grey Goo and Planetary Annihilation (spiritually hearkening back to Supreme Commander) that more or less never got off the ground

There are the few newer titles that seem to have released in a pretty milquetoast fashion - Cossacks 3, Dawn of War 3.

You might hold out for... I dunno, Spellforce 3. Do people even know the Spellforce series?

edit:Oh shoot, I'd forgotten. Total War: Warhammer is actually a really decent modern RTS, if you don't mind it also being kind of a hybrid with TBS.

[Knaight]

The graphics of Starcraft are fine too - it's a style that aged well.

[The_Jackal]

Yes, I'd recommend Starcraft II to anyone who likes the RTS form, it's a competent sequel to the original Starcraft: Brood War which arguably is the apogee of the form. As others have pointed out, you can play the original Starcraft: Brood War for free, and you should, because the original does a much better job of establishing the setting, and coupling the single-player campaign with the competitive format.

This isn't to say that Starcraft II is bad, it's a fine game, it's just that there are stark differences in how the single-player content works, mechanically, and the mulltiplayer game. The single-player campaigns include progression components that don't work at all in the instanced format of a multiplayer match. Also, while Starcraft II comes with a different suite of units, better AI, and improved user-interface, those changes drastically affect how the game is played in multiplayer. Of particular note, Brood War limits you to selecting 12 units at once. This means that you've got to devote a great deal more energy toward micro-management of your units, rewarding good control and management skills to players who develop them, where SCII tends to hinge much more on the economic meta-game and understanding available build timings. If you get behind on production, or fail to counter a certain unit type when it becomes available, the odds of you using superior micro-management to fight your way back into the game are much, much smaller.

[Hiro Protagonest]

and with a plotline that goes from amazing (Wings of Liberty) to okay (Heart of the Swarm) to completely Bethesda-esque awful (Legacy of the Void)?

Nah man, things were already turning bad with Wings of Liberty.

Spoiler: WoL

Show

The sudden arrival of a prophecy made "what will Raynor do about Kerrigan" a non-option. Also the fact that it went from sci-fi to prophecy. Warcraft time.

Also some loss of subtlety, but old Starcraft/Brood War was still something of a b-movie anyway.

But yeah, LotV is the worst (aside from the three-faction epilogue). Blizzard hates the Protoss' themes, so they couldn't even commit fully to making something about how awesome the Protoss are (as a whole, not just energy blades and big-ass lasers) and had to add how awesome Terrans are.

[Dienekes]

So, this is a weird one for me to answer, because on the whole SC2 may be my most played modern video game, but a lot of it I straight don't like. But I'm used to the changes so going back to SC1 feels weird now. While I think SC:BW was the best game of the bunch, and I've gone back to play it now that it's free, Zealots without charge, no Blink, the crap unit movement, and the original starting workers all make the gameplay feel worse.

In any case, yes SC2 is a great game, despite some very clear missteps to me. And there is a lot in the game to enjoy.

There's Co-Op mission, which would be great. If only it wasn't attached to a silly leveling system and each of the commanders had about 1/3 of a full cast of units drastically limiting the strategies available for them.

There's normal multiplayer games, which are great. Except that until you get to the higher levels of play, the giant sized unit control groups makes the most effective strategy creating a bigger deathball than your opponent and A-moving forward.

There's a campaign mode, which have really interesting gameplay and mission design. But, each of the stories is pretty bad, even by video game standards. The first one starts well, but devolves into an odious prophecy narrative and a lot of Raynor complaining about his ex-girlfriend. There is a system of space in eternal conflict over resources, with space monster, and political corruption. Why do people think I care about one man's love life? The second one also starts alright, but the big dramatic punch moment turns out to be a lie for the illusion of drama. The third one is just bad, because Blizzard doesn't know what to do about the Protoss, which was clear the last two game since they're mostly uninvolved. Except for the idiotic prophecy which is now in full force. And, the Toss were my favorite race. So disappointing.

Then there's custom games. No real complaints here. Not all of them are gems, but buying Starcraft 2 is nearly the equivalent of buying a whole new game system. There are a bunch of games to choose from, and some of them are really great.

[Spore]

Reinstalled C&C 3 Tiberian War on Steam yesterday because it was on sale and I've lost my CDs (yes CD, not DVDs). Played a bit of GDI missions and the story holds up. The gameplay....not so much. I can't find my units on the ground, most hotkeys are laid out terribly unintuitive, the game has too many hard counters making a whole army die to 2-3 units of a specific counterplay. Spellcasters almost don't exist - or high tier - or spawn without their 'spell' researched.

Meanwhile, SC 2 has precise movement, smartly laid out hotkeys for spells (or e.g. warp-ins) you can easily find your units and gauge the enemy strength at a glance. You can still (soft)counter enemy units comps but if your enemy brings 20+ marines to a battle his ability to micro can still safe him from 2-3 Ultralisks/Archons.

I enjoy both stories (though the GDI could really dislodge the stick up their behinds a bit) but considering RTS games Starcraft is really the best one out there. And it is not as addictive as other Blizz titles (which is a plus in itself). You play when you want. Not to complete daily quests, or push your XP bar that bit further. Yes, I know coop commanders have an XP bar. Blizz is slowly giving any and all games RPG elements.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

The graphics of Starcraft are fine too - it's a style that aged well.

Yeah; it's really great how well they look--the graphics were designed to look good within their constraints, not as attempts to look realistic that fall apart as technology marches on.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Also it is a bit of a stretch to call Kerrigan Raynor's 'girlfriend'. They were in all of three missions together. The first one, she calls him a pig at introduction, and the other two Jim wasn't technically a unit at all.

Granted, he does blow up about Kerrigan being abandoned, but that's more "WTF are you doing abandoning your best unit AND your Lieutenant?" kind of thing. He'd be almost as upset about him abandoning anyone else significant (assuming there was anyone in that role) except perhaps Duke.

Now, mind you, he could've had one of those 'after the fact' crushes where he realizes what he lost and somewhat obsesses over it, despite the fact that there was literally NOTHING going on between them other than a one-liner offering camaraderie comfort at being assigned a difficult mission, and then she could've developed a case of Hero Worship after Jim saves her at the end of WoL, but this whole romance thing... didn't really have much of a basis there.

WoL's story is still the best out of the three. HotS I loved mostly because of the ending cutscene. I'll be honest, I would've paid the price of HotS just for Mengsk getting his just deserts.

LotV just... throws all that away. It's like they fired the previous writers and the new crew came in with a new broom, ret-conned everything, changed fundamental underlying concepts, and then trolled fans with BS moments specifically designed to insult the previous writing team and the people who actually cared about the plotline. They may as well have had a character flat out state "WTF are you doing playing the Campaign anyway, go do multiplayer n00b"

LotV is the ONLY Blizzard offering to date that I have never beaten, and likely never will. It is a disappoint.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Also it is a bit of a stretch to call Kerrigan Raynor's 'girlfriend'. They were in all of three missions together. The first one, she calls him a pig at introduction, and the other two Jim wasn't technically a unit at all.

Granted, he does blow up about Kerrigan being abandoned, but that's more "WTF are you doing abandoning your best unit AND your Lieutenant?" kind of thing. He'd be almost as upset about him abandoning anyone else significant (assuming there was anyone in that role) except perhaps Duke.

In fairness, there's the potential for a good amount of time to have elapsed in between missions, and in Kerrigan's last Terran mission, she gets this line: "Jimmy, drop the knight in shining armor routine. It suits you sometimes, just...not now."

To me, that suggests (at bare minimum) a strong familiarity that probably developed during the downtime we never see. Maybe it was negligent dialogue-writing, but it reads like Kerrigan has spent enough time with/around Jim to get a good sense of who he is. There's a strong possibility that something was going on behind the scenes there.

[Olinser]

I recommend it, its still one of the best RTS games ever made.

The question is what are you really looking for?

The campaign has some great missions but the story is pretty 'eh'. It's basically an excuse plot to go around showcasing all the units and gameplay, but its still a good time.

Multiplayer is pretty well balanced at this point and there are a large number of pro tournaments at which all races are competitive. Depending on how skilled you are, sure some strategies are pretty cheese, but all races are playable and games are relatively quick.

Custom games the engine allows a HUGE amount of customization so you can always find entertaining things to play.

If you are an RTS player at all I'd definitely recommend picking it up.

[Keltest]

I enjoy the single player and the coop mode myself. The ladder is a mess right now, IMO. The arcade is always worth checking out, but its a little hard to get into unless you have a community or group of friends you like to play maps with consistently.

[thorgrim29]

Also it is a bit of a stretch to call Kerrigan Raynor's 'girlfriend'. They were in all of three missions together. The first one, she calls him a pig at introduction, and the other two Jim wasn't technically a unit at all.

Granted, he does blow up about Kerrigan being abandoned, but that's more "WTF are you doing abandoning your best unit AND your Lieutenant?" kind of thing. He'd be almost as upset about him abandoning anyone else significant (assuming there was anyone in that role) except perhaps Duke.

There was a novelization of the terran campaign in the first game called Liberty's Crusade. I haven't read it in a while but I remember it being pretty good. The viewpoint character is a journalist called Michael Liberty who was on Mar Sara for the first mission and ends up being swept up in everything. It expands a lot on the Confederacy lore, such as the resocialized marines and stuff like that and also expands quite a bit on Jim and Sara's relationship. From the viewpoint of a guy fighting on the frontlines that whole universe is pretty damn terrifying.

[hamishspence]

The Zerg campaign (and bits of the Protoss campaign) - also got one - Queen of Blades, by Aaron Rosenberg. Not quite as good - but then, Jeff Grubb is unusually good when it comes to tie-in fiction - he's written Forgotten Realms novels, a Star Wars novel, and probably a lot of other stuff.

[Dienekes]

There was a novelization of the terran campaign in the first game called Liberty's Crusade. I haven't read it in a while but I remember it being pretty good. The viewpoint character is a journalist called Michael Liberty who was on Mar Sara for the first mission and ends up being swept up in everything. It expands a lot on the Confederacy lore, such as the resocialized marines and stuff like that and also expands quite a bit on Jim and Sara's relationship. From the viewpoint of a guy fighting on the frontlines that whole universe is pretty damn terrifying.

Yeah I remember reading some of the Starcraft tie-in books as a kid. I also remember reading one passage where 4 Zealots kill an Ultralisk with ease. I was annoyed when I couldn't recreate it, in game.

[The Glyphstone]

Yeah I remember reading some of the Starcraft tie-in books as a kid. I also remember reading one passage where 4 Zealots kill an Ultralisk with ease. I was annoyed when I couldn't recreate it, in game.

Maybe the Zealots had maxed out upgrades and the Ultralisk was stock? I can't find any solid numbers for Brood War Ultralisk's DPS to actually math it out (yes, I'm bored).

[Olinser]

Yeah I remember reading some of the Starcraft tie-in books as a kid. I also remember reading one passage where 4 Zealots kill an Ultralisk with ease. I was annoyed when I couldn't recreate it, in game.

4 zealots can kill an ultralisk.

They just can't stand next to each other and you micro the first couple low health zealots back so the ultra picks another target and they can keep doing DPS while the ultra works on a full health one.

[Gandariel]

Yeah, if they attack from the 4 cardinal directions and you micro them, they should he able to do it. Especially in sc2, where shield regen is super fast.

Anyways, SC2 is great. Sc1 too.

[GloatingSwine]

Yes, you should get Starcraft 2.

It has basically the best RTS campaign ever (Wings of Liberty) and two others that are okay too (even if the story falls on its ass the actual missions remain great).

[GolemsVoice]

SC 2 was great, definitely recommended. Also, while SC1 might be better story-wise, it took me a replay of the old games to notice just how much better the new SC is, mission-wise, and how positively it differs from other RTS games. In SC2, each mission will have something that makes it unique, unlike SC1 or other games, where missions were usually just base-building with a different map.

Also, the graphics are pretty good, still.

[Dienekes]

4 zealots can kill an ultralisk.

They just can't stand next to each other and you micro the first couple low health zealots back so the ultra picks another target and they can keep doing DPS while the ultra works on a full health one.

Yeah, probably. I only know 12 year old Dienekes couldn't get it to work without losing a couple of my glorious Zealots.

[VoxRationis]

LotV just... throws all that away. It's like they fired the previous writers and the new crew came in with a new broom, ret-conned everything, changed fundamental underlying concepts, and then trolled fans with BS moments specifically designed to insult the previous writing team and the people who actually cared about the plotline. They may as well have had a character flat out state "WTF are you doing playing the Campaign anyway, go do multiplayer n00b"

LotV is the ONLY Blizzard offering to date that I have never beaten, and likely never will. It is a disappoint.

Yeah... You can really tell that someone at Blizzard really hates the Protoss when the Protoss-centric expansion not only gave the Terrans better multiplayer units, but had a campaign based on destroying pretty much all Protoss culture.

Reinstalled C&C 3 Tiberian War on Steam yesterday because it was on sale and I've lost my CDs (yes CD, not DVDs). Played a bit of GDI missions and the story holds up. The gameplay....not so much. I can't find my units on the ground, most hotkeys are laid out terribly unintuitive, the game has too many hard counters making a whole army die to 2-3 units of a specific counterplay. Spellcasters almost don't exist - or high tier - or spawn without their 'spell' researched.

Meanwhile, SC 2 has precise movement, smartly laid out hotkeys for spells (or e.g. warp-ins) you can easily find your units and gauge the enemy strength at a glance. You can still (soft)counter enemy units comps but if your enemy brings 20+ marines to a battle his ability to micro can still safe him from 2-3 Ultralisks/Archons.

See, to me the LotV-era thinking of soft counters, rather than hard counters, is irksome. I like hard counters. I like having a unit that will perform its role without me having to force it to perform its role, because frankly I'm just a regular human being and don't have god-level micro. By the time LotV came around, I think Blizzard had just about given up on the idea of anyone but extremely-hardcore types actually playing the game, so they reduced the strategy element in favor of twitch-level tactics and micro-intensive abilities. That they did this to the Protoss (my favorite civ, from a lore/aesthetics level) in particular bothered me especially.

[Keltest]

LotV just... throws all that away. It's like they fired the previous writers and the new crew came in with a new broom, ret-conned everything, changed fundamental underlying concepts, and then trolled fans with BS moments specifically designed to insult the previous writing team and the people who actually cared about the plotline. They may as well have had a character flat out state "WTF are you doing playing the Campaign anyway, go do multiplayer n00b"

LotV is the ONLY Blizzard offering to date that I have never beaten, and likely never will. It is a disappoint.

Ok, HOTS was awful. Like, really really awful. were treated to such marvels as Kerrigan justifying the killing of protoss in the present day because they've killed a lot of zerg.

You say it seems like LoV had a new writing team? They did. The prologue and LoV were written by a new guy and team (as was Covert Ops), and it shows because it is so much less painful to listen to. The epilogue was almost certainly written back during WoL, at least in broad strokes.

Much like Star Wars, HotS is what happens when a guy with some good ideas is given free reign and has nobody to act as a filter for the bad stuff.