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  1. - Top - End - #511
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    Default Re: Kickstarter Discussion Thread - How the Paladin Got His Scar (SPOILERS!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    No, I can see the logic to not immediately promoting O-Chul- I just don't see the particular logic to promoting Miko faster than the guy with actual leadership skills, given they both got in at the ground floor.
    It's always possible that they didn't. Miko was convinced of her own divine superiority, and was the highest level paladin in the Guard, but neither necessarily mean she was actually leading it. I still think all the evidence in the online strip points to Shojo having taken over direct control of the Sapphire Guard and using Miko as his personal attack dog, sending her after anything he thought might threaten the security of the Gate. In the meantime I think Hinjo was probably doing the day-to-day running of the Guard, in the name of his sadly incapacitated uncle, of course.

  2. - Top - End - #512
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    Default Re: Kickstarter Discussion Thread - How the Paladin Got His Scar (SPOILERS!)

    I definitely got the impression from this story that the existence of a commander of the Sapphire Guard separate and largely independent from Shojo was meant to be one of the things that had changed by the time of the main story. Gin-Jun may have been the last one.
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  3. - Top - End - #513
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    Default Re: Kickstarter Discussion Thread - How the Paladin Got His Scar (SPOILERS!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Second, divination spells exist. Even if one doesn't wish to more exactly when or how, a rough ballpark of when they expire is relatively easily attainable, especially by the wealthy. I'm not saying Shojo did know anything about that, but it is very much possible that he could.
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas View Post
    Xykon and followers showing up and destroying most of [Hinjo's] loyal army was a completely unexpected event that surprised everyone.
    Very true, but I'm not sure a standing army would save the situation. (I'd also hope that Hinjo would be trying for 'find ways to convict specific conspirators' rather than 'use autocratic military suppression of malcontents'.)

    I'm afraid that divination spells capable of seeing that far ahead raise many, many more questions of their own.

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    It's always possible that they didn't. Miko was convinced of her own divine superiority, and was the highest level paladin in the Guard, but neither necessarily mean she was actually leading it...
    In practical terms she clearly wasn't, but you have to ignore multiple points of evidence to conclude she wasn't of high official rank within the organisation.

    EDIT: I guess what I'm driving at is that Miko's not exactly wrong about higher powers nudging her down a chosen path, given she was plucked from obscurity to survive lethal dangers and gain steady promotion in the eyes of both gods and men. The OOTSverse is a place where there really are patterns in the noise.

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    Last edited by Lacuna Caster; 2017-06-04 at 06:41 AM.
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  4. - Top - End - #514
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    Default Re: Kickstarter Discussion Thread - How the Paladin Got His Scar (SPOILERS!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post

    EDIT: I guess what I'm driving at is that Miko's not exactly wrong about higher powers nudging her down a chosen path, given she was plucked from obscurity to survive lethal dangers and gain steady promotion in the eyes of both gods and men. The OOTSverse is a place where there really are patterns in the noise.

    .
    Mmm-huh. And that higher power was named Shojo. He really got what was coming to him.
    Think it's War and XP where Rich mentions the plucking from obscurity brougth to the heights of society by Shojo as something not having a very stabilising influence on Miko. The woman who thinks divine intervention washed her laundry (she put on the shirt backwards and can't see the stain).
    For a glimpse of his Miko mangement style in action there's the scene where he orders her to go get the OOTS to which she replies "their blood shall bathe on my sowrds"to which she is vaguely instructed that "Mr Scruffy says not to kill them" to which she promsies to try really hard not to. And no I can't say where that exchange is, and it sucks big time not to have ones books available.

  5. - Top - End - #515
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    Default Re: Kickstarter Discussion Thread - How the Paladin Got His Scar (SPOILERS!)

    It's here.

  6. - Top - End - #516
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    Default Re: Kickstarter Discussion Thread - How the Paladin Got His Scar (SPOILERS!)

    Quote Originally Posted by snowblizz View Post
    And no I can't say where that exchange is, and it sucks big time not to have ones books available.
    Sorry about that.

    For what it's worth, everything you said this time around I could definitely verify as being in War and XPs.

    (Round 6)

    As a result of being hand-picked from an orphanage and ushered to the very heights of her civilization's power, [Miko] truly believed that she had a destiny[... etc.]
    And the comic is 308a.

    I appreciate the accuracy.

  7. - Top - End - #517
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    Default Re: Kickstarter Discussion Thread - How the Paladin Got His Scar (SPOILERS!)

    Quote Originally Posted by snowblizz View Post
    Mmm-huh. And that higher power was named Shojo. He really got what was coming to him.
    Think it's War and XP where Rich mentions the plucking from obscurity brougth to the heights of society by Shojo as something not having a very stabilising influence on Miko.
    Here, however, The Giant suggests that Miko would have been worse without the influence of Shojo and the Sapphire Guard:

    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...0#post12240910

    If anything, I attribute most of her positive traits to the way she was raised by Shojo and her subsequent membership in the Sapphire Guard. Which is not to say that he did a perfect job, but he recognized that she needed discipline in order to function, and gave her life meaning and purpose that it wouldn't have otherwise had. I've always felt that someone who had come to him with less underlying issues (whether due to her inherent personality or the trauma of losing her parents and getting sent to a monastery) could have been raised the same way and not turned out to be like Miko. Likewise, if Miko had never met Shojo, she probably would have left the monastery as an angry unstable loner with no purpose. Shojo's guidance was the tape that was held her together for so long, which is why she went to pieces when it was ripped off.
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    Default Re: Kickstarter Discussion Thread - How the Paladin Got His Scar (SPOILERS!)

    On the other hand, an angry unstable loner with no purpose probably wouldn't have had the discipline to get to be a high level in whatever class they chose to be, so she would have caused considerably less damage than she did.

  9. - Top - End - #519
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    Default Re: Kickstarter Discussion Thread - How the Paladin Got His Scar (SPOILERS!)

    I guess O-Chul's backstory explains why he's so good at pickpocketing Xykon. and you thought that was just a throw away line about theft being illegal.
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    Default Re: Kickstarter Discussion Thread - How the Paladin Got His Scar (SPOILERS!)

    Quote Originally Posted by The MunchKING View Post
    I guess O-Chul's backstory explains why he's so good at pickpocketing Xykon. and you thought that was just a throw away line about theft being illegal.
    Oh that's brilliant.
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    Default Re: Kickstarter Discussion Thread - How the Paladin Got His Scar (SPOILERS!)

    Quote Originally Posted by The MunchKING View Post
    I guess O-Chul's backstory explains why he's so good at pickpocketing Xykon. and you thought that was just a throw away line about theft being illegal.
    I love it! Subtle continuity is the best continuity.

  12. - Top - End - #522
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    Default Re: Kickstarter Discussion Thread - How the Paladin Got His Scar (SPOILERS!)

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    On the other hand, an angry unstable loner with no purpose probably wouldn't have had the discipline to get to be a high level in whatever class they chose to be, so she would have caused considerably less damage than she did.
    I dunno. The borderline-chaotic-evil gender-flipped version seems to be ostentatiously badass while having his own regrets.

    I suspect this is the kind of micro-analysis that will drive the author to distraction, but I am curious as to why or whether Miko would leave the monastery at all, given she'd already taken monk levels. Was the abbot going to kick her out, or something?
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  13. - Top - End - #523
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    Default Re: Kickstarter Discussion Thread - How the Paladin Got His Scar (SPOILERS!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    I dunno. The borderline-chaotic-evil gender-flipped version seems to be ostentatiously badass while having his own regrets.

    I suspect this is the kind of micro-analysis that will drive the author to distraction, but I am curious as to why or whether Miko would leave the monastery at all, given she'd already taken monk levels. Was the abbot going to kick her out, or something?
    What? First, if that vagueness was supposed to mean Belkar, aside from arguably not being borderline in anything, he's far from a gender-flipped Miko. Also, are your links just going to random things now? They used to beat least tangentially related tvtropes that I imagine you tossed in for people who didn't understand what you meant with certain words or phrases (though I doubt anyone was ever confused), but a gundam video? Even if you can say it's related (I didn't bother to watch), you could just make your case yourself instead of linking it away.

    Also. Have you thought that maybe Miko isn't a powergamer, and is just a person living her life in a world run by 3.5 rules? She was left at the monastery as a child. She took levels in monk, because it made sense at the time. She later decided the monastery and/or monkness wasn't what and where she wanted to be.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2017-06-05 at 09:49 AM.
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  14. - Top - End - #524
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    Default Re: Kickstarter Discussion Thread - How the Paladin Got His Scar (SPOILERS!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post

    Also. Have you thought that maybe Miko isn't a powergamer, and is just a person living her life in a world run by 3.5 rules? She was left at the monastery as a child. She took levels in monk, because it made sense at the time. She later decided the monastery and/or monkness wasn't what and where she wanted to be.
    She was orphaned - presumably the monastery doubled as an orphanage - and later, recruited from the monastery (and adopted, we now know) by Shojo:

    http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0406.html

    After HoPGtS, she started taking levels in paladin.
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  15. - Top - End - #525
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    Default Re: Kickstarter Discussion Thread - How the Paladin Got His Scar (SPOILERS!)

    Whoa there, Peelee. To explicate, I thought that Guts from Berserk is a fair example of the 'angry unstable loner with no sense of purpose in life', and the video just explains some of his development, which I think parallels Miko's in various respects. I thought it was an interesting what-if point of comparison, and I'm sorry if this was off-topic or not immediately apparent in context.

    Trust me, no 3.5e powergamer is going to take more than 2 levels in monk. It's just that, institutionally speaking, most kids who were adopted into feudal monasteries were expected to stay there for life. And we do know she wept on leaving to join the guard. I know that OOTSverse doesn't map precisely to any real-world medieval culture, I just thought it was interesting.

    Anyhoo- for all my griping, part of me is inclined to give Shojo the benefit of the doubt as to his motives, but I wonder if the simplest explanation for a lot of his later behaviour is that he's not faking the senility. :P

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    Last edited by Lacuna Caster; 2017-06-05 at 10:26 AM.
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  16. - Top - End - #526
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    Default Re: Kickstarter Discussion Thread - How the Paladin Got His Scar (SPOILERS!)

    Quote Originally Posted by The MunchKING View Post
    I guess O-Chul's backstory explains why he's so good at pickpocketing Xykon. and you thought that was just a throw away line about theft being illegal.
    Oh man, that totally went past me! Nice catch. There were so many connections in there. For a moment I though O'Chul's biological mother was Haley's mom, but no. Great story, and amazing length and quality for what could have just been a Kickstarter extra.

  17. - Top - End - #527
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    Default Re: Kickstarter Discussion Thread - How the Paladin Got His Scar (SPOILERS!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    To explicate, I thought that Guts from Berserk is a fair example of the 'angry unstable loner with no sense of purpose in life', and the video just explains some of his development, which I think parallels Miko's in various respects. I thought it was an interesting what-if point of comparison, and I'm sorry if this was off-topic or not immediately apparent in context.
    Ah, so the comparison was to the video, not to an OotS character? Gotcha. Not getting that was what threw me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    It's just that, institutionally speaking, most kids who were adopted into feudal monasteries were expected to stay there for life. And we do know she wept on leaving to join the guard. I know that OOTSverse doesn't map precisely to any real-world medieval culture, I just thought it was interesting.
    "Most" and "expected" are the key words there. This story has one who wasn't in that group.
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  18. - Top - End - #528
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    Default Re: Kickstarter Discussion Thread - How the Paladin Got His Scar (SPOILERS!)

    Quote Originally Posted by The MunchKING View Post
    I guess O-Chul's backstory explains why he's so good at pickpocketing Xykon. and you thought that was just a throw away line about theft being illegal.
    Eh, "good" seems like a stretch. He grabbed the phylactery from behind and Xykon noticed immediately. In real life, almost anyone could do that.
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  19. - Top - End - #529
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    Default Re: Kickstarter Discussion Thread - How the Paladin Got His Scar (SPOILERS!)

    I don't remember seeing this definitively addressed in the 18 pages of the thread, but I may have missed it. Do we know what kind of animal was eating melons at the hobgoblin encampment? The body shape is similar, but the ears and coloration are wrong for a honey badger, and wolverines are more carnivorous.

    Any ideas?

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    Default Re: Kickstarter Discussion Thread - How the Paladin Got His Scar (SPOILERS!)

    Coyotes, maybe? Their claws are out at all times, indicating more likely to be canid than feline, and coyotes are known to eat watermelons.

  21. - Top - End - #531

    Default Re: Kickstarter Discussion Thread - How the Paladin Got His Scar (SPOILERS!)

    Coyotes eat damn near anything. One even munched a neighbor's chili pepper plant a couple years ago.

  22. - Top - End - #532
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    Default Re: Kickstarter Discussion Thread - How the Paladin Got His Scar (SPOILERS!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yxylu View Post
    I don't remember seeing this definitively addressed in the 18 pages of the thread, but I may have missed it. Do we know what kind of animal was eating melons at the hobgoblin encampment? The body shape is similar, but the ears and coloration are wrong for a honey badger, and wolverines are more carnivorous.

    Any ideas?
    I definitely thought it was some kind of badger.
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  23. - Top - End - #533
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    Default Re: Kickstarter Discussion Thread - How the Paladin Got His Scar (SPOILERS!)

    It's just occurred to me - headcanon has to be that O-Chul's aunt either died peacefully earlier or made it out of the city when Team Evil attacked. Too sad otherwise. She can't be doomed by canon.
    Last edited by Juggling Goth; 2017-06-14 at 12:35 PM.

  24. - Top - End - #534
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    Default Re: Kickstarter Discussion Thread - How the Paladin Got His Scar (SPOILERS!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Juggling Goth View Post
    It's just occurred to me - headcanon has to be that O-Chul's aunt either died peacefully earlier or made it out of the city when Team Evil attacked. Too sad otherwise. She can't be doomed by canon.
    It's mentioned as being a town, so I assume it was one of Azure City's holdings. Azure City's territories has 500'000 people in it, only 250'000 actually live in the city itself. It was probably spared the bulk of the fighting.
    Last edited by MReav; 2017-06-15 at 10:18 AM.

  25. - Top - End - #535
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    Default Re: Kickstarter Discussion Thread - How the Paladin Got His Scar (SPOILERS!)

    Quote Originally Posted by MReav View Post
    It's mentioned as being a town, so I assume it was one of Azure City's holdings. Azure City's territories has 500'000 people in it, only 250'000 actually live in. It was probably spared the bulk of the fighting.
    Hooray! *Fridge horror evaporates*

  26. - Top - End - #536
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    Default Re: Kickstarter Discussion Thread - How the Paladin Got His Scar (SPOILERS!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Juggling Goth View Post
    Hooray! *Fridge horror evaporates*
    I'd also add that Zhou ponders moving her mother "out here away from the city" on the final page.
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  27. - Top - End - #537
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    Default Re: Kickstarter Discussion Thread - How the Paladin Got His Scar (SPOILERS!)

    Finally got around to reading this PDF. It was awesome! I haven't taken the time to read through this thread but I wanted to share a few thoughts.

    Do we have any idea when Mr. Scruffy came into Lord Shojo's company? I guess cat's don't generally live a ton more than 12 years. It didn't appear that Shojo had started his senile shtick yet. Maybe he was just being candid with those two?

    I'm curious how reading order should go with the books and these new expanded stories. Based on the choice of black and white, I'm assuming that Rich plans on printing the Kickstarter stories as a collection. I guess he'll just have "Recommended pre-reading" before each story?

    I think the Ettin dude was sort of representative of the entire message of this book. As a single entity, you can't be aggressive and pretend that you're passive. He shows his true form at the end. We see this play out throughout the book between the Azurites and Gobbos.

    O'chul is pretty freaking awesome. All his comments about being the one to get hit really panned out in later books! Does he have special abilities that make him ridiculously resilient?

    Anyways, thanks Rich for taking the time to write this excellent story! It was refreshing reading a longer piece rather than the general trickle we get from the online comics. The pacing is very different which I appreciate. Anyways, I look forward to re-reading the whole series when we eventually get closer to the next big book (I'm happy to wait years).

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    Default Re: Kickstarter Discussion Thread - How the Paladin Got His Scar (SPOILERS!)

    According to War & XPs (character portrait at the start of the book) Mr Scruffy was 7 during the events of that book.

    Nearly a year has gone by since then, so he should be close to or a bit over 8 in the present-day.
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    Default Re: Kickstarter Discussion Thread - How the Paladin Got His Scar (SPOILERS!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubble View Post
    I guess cat's don't generally live a ton more than 12 years.
    Doesn't make a difference in this case since Mr Scruffy is still pretty young, but in my experience, housecats live more like 18-20 years. A 12 year old cat should still have many years to live, barring an accident or health condition.

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    Default Re: Kickstarter Discussion Thread - How the Paladin Got His Scar (SPOILERS!)

    I recall reading that the Guinness record for a housecat was one who lived to 36 years old, or something like that? Obviously that's a total outlier, but cats do seem to be generally more long-lived than dogs, and a dog in decent health can get to 14 easily.

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