let's consider Kickstarter done

[Psyren]

No, that's how the price of something is determined. The very fact that it conflates value with price is part if the problem of a stock market. A stock has a value of 0, as long as it doesn't pay dividends - and many stocks never pay dividends - and many others pay so little you'll never make back what you paid for them. The only difference between collecting beanie babies and collecting Apple stock is that the bubble of one has popped and the other has not. Or, in a less cynical way, a stock with no dividends is a zero-sum game with a value of 0.

It's all relative. If those "Beanie Babies" retain their price for the longer than your lifespan (or at least, the window from your own retirement to when your next of kin can use them as collateral to jump-start their own lives) then that is actually value, not merely price.

No. They can have dividends, but many companies don't bother - and indeed, it is considered "bad" that a company gives dividends instead of "reinvesting profits into future growth" - and indication that a company is becoming a cash cow... which tends to drive investors away, therefore shattering the illusion and popping the bubble.

Grey Wolf

Many don't, and many do. They are a thing that exist, your opinion of them aside.

[factotum]

So I think the Patience-tier backers have much the same grounds for complaint as anyone else. Since they have to wait for everything else to be delivered first, and the delivery of "everything else" has missed its deadline by about 1500%, they're still suffering more than they might reasonably have expected.

Also I am not from the US and bought hard copies. Postage (and more significantly, import tax) was a bit painful, if I remember rightly, but the effective discount for getting the books as an investment reward rather than at retail price still made it worthwhile.

I was a Patience for a signed book backer, and I received mine already--so it's not like *all* Patience backers have had to wait for everything else.

Agreed on the second point. Live in the UK, have bought every single hard copy book Rich has released (SoD twice, since I got a signed one too!). I prefer having a nice solid object than a stream of bits and bytes.

[warmachine]

Burlew created his own problems with the Kickstarter campaign but it'd be interesting to know what problems he thinks he avoided by avoiding banks or venture capitalists.

[Ellye]

The main comic would probably be finished by now if it wasn't for the kickstarter rewards.

I believe the KS killed the comic, for me, as I lost pretty much all interest I once had in it due to how long it is taking.

[ThatNickGuy]

The main comic would probably be finished by now if it wasn't for the kickstarter rewards.

I believe the KS killed the comic, for me, as I lost pretty much all interest I once had in it due to how long it is taking.

I HIGHLY doubt the comic would be all done and over with by now.

[factotum]

The main comic would probably be finished by now if it wasn't for the kickstarter rewards.

I think it more likely that the comic would have stopped a long time ago without the Kickstarter, because the Giant would have run out of money and been forced to do something else to make ends meet.

[King of Nowhere]

The main comic would probably be finished by now if it wasn't for the kickstarter rewards.

I believe the KS killed the comic, for me, as I lost pretty much all interest I once had in it due to how long it is taking.

I have to be honest, I also lost some interest for the main comic because of how long it takes between updates, but it was unavoidable. without kickstarter, rich would run out of money. and while the regular comic would certainly have advanced far more without the kickstarter, we got plenty of goodies that are still related to the main comic.

[littlebum2002]

Fiscally, the strategy of the Kickstarter didn't make much sense to me. The proceeds were over $1 million! Assuming people mostly donated to support Rich and get the goodies, he could have lived comfortably off that for the rest of his life with no work except writing the comic and the goodies, and sold the books as PDFs rather than hardcopy. (Since shipping costs more than the books, those of us who aren't from the US won't buy hardcopies anyway.)

Getting over $1 million and ending up without a net profit of at least that much seems like a poor business model, especially when it loads you down with an unmanageable pile of work in the bargain.

You're right, taking people's money for a product then never giving them that product is an excellent way of making money.

Unfortunately, it's also extremely immoral and illegal. But, you know, who has time to worry about all the fiddely details?

(I mean, you do realize you are advocating Rich steal from his most ardent fanbase, right? You're saying he should have promised people books in the kickstarter then just never printed those books and kept the money. Can you please explain how this was a good idea in your head?)

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Can you please explain how this was a good idea in your head?)

Remember, she started with the assumption that everyone that donated would've been happy with pdfs instead of printed books. Given that the premise is completely flawed, what conclusions are deduced could be anything.

GW

[Kish]

I'd just like to mention that people have complained constantly that the comic is too slow since long, long before the Kickstarter.

I am getting the impression that some people think that without the Kickstarter work*, the comic would either 1) reliably update three times a week, or 2) ditch whichever of its plots the person doing the thinking considers the most Obviously, Definitely and Objectively Filler. I promise that that is not the case.

*This also ignores the damage to Rich's thumb, but, again, the complaints have been constant for years before the thumb injury. The comic's pace is what it is. I'll be surprised if it hasn't finished by 2030, but that's all I'm saying.

[littlebum2002]

Remember, she started with the assumption that everyone that donated would've been happy with pdfs instead of printed books. Given that the premise is completely flawed, what conclusions are deduced could be anything.

GW

But...PDFs don't require overhead, thus negating the need for a kickstarter

I'm guessing she wanted him to do something more like a gofundme, with the objective of "give me money so I can work faster". And while I'm sure that would have raised money, I doubt it would have made a million.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I think it more likely that the comic would have stopped a long time ago without the Kickstarter, because the Giant would have run out of money and been forced to do something else to make ends meet.

Without the pressure from the Kickstarter rewards, the comic may well have ended after the thumb injury.

[littlebum2002]

I HIGHLY doubt the comic would be all done and over with by now.

Correct.

Anyone want to guess what comic was done halfway between September 29, 2003 (the date of the first comic) and today? #738. It came out in July, 2010, before the kickstarter, before the injury, before most of the health issues. So even without these, the best scenario would be that we would be at comic #1476 right now. There is no way this comic would be done right now in any circumstances.

Also, as others have pointed out, without the Kickstarter he probably would have had to write this comic in his free time with a normal full time job, so it's probably going faster if anything.

[pearl jam]

I don't understand why this thread is still going.

The presumption that we have any right to "consider Kickstarter done" is absurd from the very premise.

If the situation were reversed and the Giant were attempting to beg out of the remaining commitments then backers would have a right to voice their opinions in support or disagreement with his decision.

But the idea that the forum can just declare the Giant free of his commitment and think that declaration would be relevant at all?



It seems pretty clearly to me to be a thinly veiled way to wish for more frequent updates to the main comic while skirting the rules about not discussing that.

I would have expected this thread to be locked by now.