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  1. - Top - End - #271
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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Clertar View Post
    Also, we don't know if the general population is as well informed as the members of a Starfleet crew.
    The criminal civilians on the transport seemed to be well informed...

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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    It might have been inspired by real life. Ones in a while we have a huge spree shooting or terrorist attack or start of a war and everybody knows the same five things about it because for a week or so they're everywhere. That number of Federation vessels getting completely creamed in the opening shots of a new war against a supposedly reclusive species they've barely had contact with so far could have been one of those big media events, and the fact (quite possibly not actually a fact) that she was the first mutineer in the history of Starfleet could have een one of those things every channel picked up on.
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  3. - Top - End - #273
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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    I haven't watched Discovery yet, but...

    I'm a fan of Enterprise. Yeah, it has it's problems, and I'm not going to say it was the best show or anything.... but there was stuff about it that I really did love. So...

    I'm curious. Have there been any Enterprise call-backs, cameos, or so forth in Discovery? Any planned, teased or announced?
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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Quiver View Post
    I haven't watched Discovery yet, but...

    I'm a fan of Enterprise. Yeah, it has it's problems, and I'm not going to say it was the best show or anything.... but there was stuff about it that I really did love. So...

    I'm curious. Have there been any Enterprise call-backs, cameos, or so forth in Discovery? Any planned, teased or announced?
    I haven't spotted any so far. The look of the ships and technology is kind of similar, and I'm pretty sure Archer will come up at some point. But nothing solid so far.
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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    If they had fired first, T’Kuvma wouldn’t have been able to unite the houses based on the Federation’s insidious promise “we come in peace”. There’d still be a fight, but it would be a border skirmish with a minor Klingon faction not a war.
    Eh, if they'd fired first it would have proven T'Kuvma's point to the other Houses, that the Federations 'we come in peace' is a lie. The war would still have started but the Federation would have fired the first shot.

    Anybody else feel uncomfortable with the Captains decision to bobby trap the Klingon dead as a tactic ? Which I've got to think is against the Federation's code of conduct
    All Comicshorse's posts come with the advisor : This is just my opinion any difficulties arising from implementing my ideas are your own problem

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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Quiver View Post
    I'm curious. Have there been any Enterprise call-backs, cameos, or so forth in Discovery? Any planned, teased or announced?
    We're only three episodes in so far, but there have been a couple.

    In the first big battle, there is a ship called the USS Shran.

    At one point the main character uses Suus Mahna, Vulcan martial arts, which were first introduced in ENT.

  7. - Top - End - #277
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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by comicshorse View Post
    Eh, if they'd fired first it would have proven T'Kuvma's point to the other Houses, that the Federations 'we come in peace' is a lie. The war would still have started but the Federation would have fired the first shot.
    I'm not so sure. The great houses don't commit to the war until the fleet warps in and that's only after they've had enough time for T'Kuvma to work the room. It's possible the Klingon Council ends up dismissing T'Kuvma either for getting defeated or if communication cuts out. Ironically it's Saru who ends up correct. If the Shenzhou flee the scene T'Kuvma has no case to make for war against the Federation.

  8. - Top - End - #278
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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Quiver View Post
    I'm curious. Have there been any Enterprise call-backs, cameos, or so forth in Discovery? Any planned, teased or announced?
    The whole look of the show is based on Enterprise and Classic Trek, with some reboot movie and new stuff sprinkled in.

    For example, Starfleet of 2255 is a bunch of ''Enterprise'' style ships. The older ships still use phase cannons(but the new ones have phasers banks). Planet Archer IV is mentioned. And the the USS Shran.

    Quote Originally Posted by comicshorse View Post
    Anybody else feel uncomfortable with the Captains decision to bobby trap the Klingon dead as a tactic ? Which I've got to think is against the Federation's code of conduct
    To be fair, Starfleet has all ways had this problem. But I guess you could say they were ''at war'', if that counts?

  9. - Top - End - #279
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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by comicshorse View Post
    Eh, if they'd fired first it would have proven T'Kuvma's point to the other Houses, that the Federations 'we come in peace' is a lie. The war would still have started but the Federation would have fired the first shot.
    No, T'Kuvma's point was that the Federation would claim to "come in peace". It's when Giorgiou said specifically that that the other houses rallied around him.

    If they had fired, he would be exposed as a liar and a fool.

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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by JadedDM View Post
    In the first big battle, there is a ship called the USS Shran.

    At one point the main character uses Suus Mahna, Vulcan martial arts, which were first introduced in ENT.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Ultron View Post
    The older ships still use phase cannons(but the new ones have phasers banks). Planet Archer IV is mentioned.
    And that shows what I know. So yes, plenty of Enterprise stuff so far.
    Last edited by Lvl 2 Expert; 2017-10-09 at 02:22 AM.
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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    I liked episode 4 quite a bit (Probably no surprise there).

    The stinger from last episode came to the front right away and was central to the story of this episode - right along with a rather Trek feeling twist.

    We got an old staple of "Distress call and we're the only ship in range" with both a dark edge and heroic twist on it. Also sets up an interesting discussion for later - and possible explanation for how it fits into canon (i.e. why this technology doesn't exist in the future).

    Saw some more from the Klingons ... still not used to their new look but there was a tease which might tie into Enterprise season 4 - which would be quite amusing if it actually does.

    Also the mushroom engineer was much more fun this episode.

    This was my spoiler free thoughts. The show seems to be finding its feet within "Star Trek" and they really are suggesting that they've been going for a "its darkest just before the dawn" style of show - I remain optimistic that they can pull this off.
    Last edited by SuperPanda; 2017-10-09 at 07:11 AM.

  12. - Top - End - #282
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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Spoiler: The creature and episode 4
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    The tardigrade/water bear monster is one of those things I both like and dislike in Science fiction.

    The nerd in me thinks it's pretty cool that more people get to know the coolness of tardigrades, and that such a thing gets used at all in a series like this.

    The bigger nerd in me completely misses the point and just wants to yell at the screen that a tardigrade's abilities don't scale like that. Those limbs are bags of fluid that can be pumped to a full or an empty position, and that's about it (slightly exaggerating). It's functionally an insect without an exoskeleton. The extreme hardiness of the creatures is not due to armor like properties of its skin or related to its physical strength, and there's no reason an upscaled superevolved version that's also a navigation genius would be any good in a knife or a gun fight. (Or you know, any good at being a navigation genius, but I've accepted that that's a thing that can happen in Star Trek, it's even kind of cooler to see creatures with abilities they would never have on earth than weird extrapolations of normal animal abilities and I'm sure there's an explanation coming for that one eventually.) The whole thing is a "T. rex couldn't see motion" in reverse, logic is abandoned to overestimate the abilities of a creature. Just aaaah!

    Still really cool of course.

    This also sets up a story line. The tardigrade seemed to be hurt by the two jumps they made, which means that unless this series is about a slave ship allegory where slavery is totally cool as long as you kick Klingon ass they're going stop using it pretty soon, probably by means of Michael releasing it, or at the very least heavily restrict their use of the spore drive.

    I'm not sure I can rate the episode in itself, it seems heavy on season arc, so as long as that pays off this episode will turn out to have been a good one.
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    Spoiler: Objection!
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    Given what they did with the security chief, I'm pretty sure this series is going nowhere while juggling Idiot Balls.

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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Lvl 2 Expert View Post
    Spoiler: The creature and episode 4
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    This also sets up a story line. The tardigrade seemed to be hurt by the two jumps they made, which means that unless this series is about a slave ship allegory where slavery is totally cool as long as you kick Klingon ass they're going stop using it pretty soon, probably by means of Michael releasing it, or at the very least heavily restrict their use of the spore drive.
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    What? I am sure Captain Lucius Malfoy is going to turn out to be a fine upstanding Federation captain who will live up to the finest ideals of Starfleet at all times.

    And totally probably not in Section 31 at all.

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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Spoiler: Lorca
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    I really want the Captain to be a morally complex character...but so far all indications seem to be pointing toward simple well intentioned extremist territory. Given the relative simplicity of this episode's introspection about war, I'm bracing for disappointment...which would be a real waste of Isaac's chops.

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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    Spoiler: Objection!
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    Given what they did with the security chief, I'm pretty sure this series is going nowhere while juggling Idiot Balls.
    I'm pretty annoyed by that, too. In fact, it took me the rest of the episode to actually accept that really happened, and wasn't some kind of weird dream sequence or holodeck simulation or alternate reality nonsense.

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    Did they really just "Tasha Yar" Landry? What the hell?

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    Having watched the fourth Episode it is unlikely that I will follow this Show any further.

    It doesn't feel like Trek. I hate the Klingon's portrayal. But what sealed the deal for me was the Prometheus-Level stupidity of the characters, the worn-out Dialoge and predictable turn of Events.

    Spoiler: Exhibit A
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    Lorca wants to make a jump. Lt. Staments says no. Lorca then Plays the last Transmission from the attacked planet ship-wide: a obviously constructed tear Jerker crowned with the confused and frightened plea of a Little Girl.




    It's really a shame. There is stuff I like. The idea of the main character is good and the actor's Performance is great.

  18. - Top - End - #288
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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombimode View Post
    Having watched the fourth Episode it is unlikely that I will follow this Show any further.

    It doesn't feel like Trek. I hate the Klingon's portrayal. But what sealed the deal for me was the Prometheus-Level stupidity of the characters, the worn-out Dialoge and predictable turn of Events.

    Spoiler: Exhibit A
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    Lorca wants to make a jump. Lt. Staments says no. Lorca then Plays the last Transmission from the attacked planet ship-wide: a obviously constructed tear Jerker crowned with the confused and frightened plea of a Little Girl.




    It's really a shame. There is stuff I like. The idea of the main character is good and the actor's Performance is great.
    While I'll keep going along further, it's becoming a considerably less enjoyable trip. The combination of the Klingons - which I have negative interest in - and the "we have to do something, this is something, therefore we must do it!" attitude displayed frequently is eroding my enthusiasm.

    It's wanting to be this critique of "for the greater good any methods are justified"-type mentality but they lack the context to make it feel justified or compelling and they're not smart about it -- merely emphatic.

    Spoiler
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    Firstly, Section 31 made some horrifically amoral decisions on DS9 but everything they did still made pragmatic sense, whereas - for instance - Lorca was expending valuable resources (his tactical officer's life and the science officer he bent Federation law to smuggle on board who could've easily died pointlessly as well in mindless zeal for the cause) in a crisis situation to research an alien organism which in his estimation maybe could have potentially yielded some long-term military advancements with sufficient examination. The fact that it turned out to be a vital tool in resolving their main technical issue in the A plot was purely coincidental, and somewhat maddening.

    Secondly, this is all coming from a position which feels extremely artificial, the Klingon Empire was never such an overwhelming force as to rendering the Federation nearly so pathetic and while first-season TNG might've viewed warfare as beneath the dignity of Star Fleet the general consensus across the franchise is that they're the equal to any of the main players in their quadrant. The Klingons weren't even using the cloaking technology which was displayed as their greatest tactical strength franchise-wide, the Federation is just that bad. Do you really defend the main material source of your energy - which powers your goddamned military and entire space-faring way of life - with such a small compliment that you need to call in your secret weapon science ship while its blink drive is still in its Alpha stages as a last-ditch Hail Mary effort? It was only a few Birds of Prey too... just, really? This is particularly grating on the Discovery, where the crew comes off as a bunch of ivory tower academics IN SPACE whinging and whimpering at their Captain's militant mind-set.

    But... putting that aside, the more important bit is that we're expected to feel these dire straits that they're in because they keep saying how dire it is from the get-go. There's no lead-up, we don't see the incremental strain this is putting on them, the gradual hardening of their spirits as their comrades die and Federation planets conquered... war is just a thing which has happened and now we have to go to whatever extreme we can to fight it. This is like if In the Pale Moonlight was an immediate follow-up to the Dominion War's start, it doesn't work when you jump into this theme whole-hog from the beginning... particularly with a Captain whose whole characterization thus far has been obnoxiously shady puppeteer guy.


    Really... it's just trying too hard while not having breathing space for any of its potential impact to land.

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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    This show is far from perfect and there is alot of valid criticism here - though a few things I noticed on that front:

    Spoiler: Getting Tasha-Yar'd
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    Landry got very little screen-time overall so I feel like she was more of a named Red-Shirt than Yar was, but that aside.

    What we saw of her was someone fanatically devoted to Lorca. She knew Lorca's plan for getting Michael on Discovery when Saru didn't and arranged transport of the creature - which Saru didn't seem to know much, if anything, about. When the distress beacon played it seemed to cause something inside her to snap. In many ways that moment was very similar to Burnnam's own PTSD fueled mutiny in episode 1.

    Now with all of that said - the monitors behind her did now the creatures vitals drop in ways one might expect it to under sedation. She had every reason to believe that it was sedated until it was very clear that it wasn't at which point she did what I think most of us would do - shoot to kill the very dangerous wild animal she just let loose. Really the only piece of evidence she had for the thing not being dangerous was that it hadn't eaten any bodies on the Glenn - and that wasn't a point brought up by Michael earlier (nor did they search enough of the ship to know about it).

    So this definitely was a "We need to do something and this is something" moment - it was also a "Right now, with that child's cry in my ears I cannot accept failure."

    All of this would be fifty times better if they slowed it down a bit more and gave us a chance to know the characters. If we had had a single Landry focused episode prior to this going into her backstory - maybe security on a colony at the start of the war where she failed to save a group of colonist including a school because of "standard protocols" - and Lorca managed to save some of them earning her respect and devotion - then the hints I saw in this episode would have been clear and meaningful. The show seems to be trying to skip all the "boring"
    character development because it needs to be a "hit" right out the gate when it really needs to build some character first.


    Spoiler: Re: Lorca being wasteful
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    I wouldn't put Lorca being willing to sacrifice Burnham as being wasteful - she is basically officially dead to Star Fleet - any data he gets,
    including from her autopsy - is more use than she'd be in prison. The bug-creature was also securely locked away, without someone doing something incredibly stupid there was no risk. Lorca himself wasn't even focused on this side project, he was just trying to guilt trip Stamets and that had a horrible unexpected consequences. So far the show has been more about people being far too emotional.

    So he's not pragmatic like Seciton 31 is - he has a fanatic devotion to his cause and an obsession with war. He tells Star Fleet he is ready because he feels that he alone can save Starfleet - the same feeling he instilled in Landry - the same feeling he saw in Michael Burnam.
    He's a mirror of Michael's character at the start of the show, before she had to deal with failure.


    Complaints about the poor defenses at the Dilithium mining facility and equally poor attack group - 100% agree. That is my single biggest gripe with Discovery to date so far. The whole show suffers form moments like that because the show-runners seem so desperate that everything feels big and important - its a shame because all the best parts have been quiet and understated so far.

    A lot of great characterization has been so quiet and understated it gets drowned by the visuals and FX department - then lost.

    Second is the look of the Klingons - every other aesthetic choice I either like or is growing on me, even the Discovery herself. They still look like an aweful mash-up of Xenomorphs (head shape in profile), Cardassians (The clothing feels like spiky, ornate DS9 Cardassian to me and I don't know why), Klingons, and Orcs.

    Spoiler: Re: Comparison to Pale Moonlight
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    I think this is worse than the example you gave - because even then there were episodes building up the Dominion and how scary it was before that. What Discovery is doing is trying to Start the Dominion War and have Pale Moonlight in their first two-part episode and then draw out Pale Moonlight's delima because the first attempt failed, the Star Fleet officer's honor was spent for no gains and others are not going to make the same mistake. This could work - but I think we need more time with each person


    I am still enjoying it - it could be alot better, but it also could be a lot worse.

  20. - Top - End - #290
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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Agree with most of the comments. For me the mushroom drive is particularly stupid. The ship design is rubbish. Shenzhou was much better. The spinning saucer rings have me wincing as an engineer imagining how messed up that will make the internals.

    And Landry was definitely holding an idiot ball.

    Still watching, but episodes 3 and 4 have been notably worse than 1 and 2.

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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Spoiler: Episode 4
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    The travels of the USS Discovery continue...

    Spinning rings? Er, don't really like that at all.

    I do like the ''Federation at war'' idea....but I also think I got my fill with DS9. And DS9 started the war after several seasons of letting us get to know the characters. Having a war with ''um character x what was there name'' is just not engaging. The TNG ''Family'' where the whole episode is (mostly) the after effects for Picard in the ''Borg war'' or the DS9 one "Er, what was it's name" where the entire episode is Nog and his war post dramatic stress/new leg. But both came after knowing the character for years.

    And so the Captain is ''misleading'' command...at best.


    Things that Don't Make Sense

    *So the computer ''synthesized'' a uniform? Kinda like ''replicated'' one? Or is there a sewing machine robot hidden somewhere?

    *the holo mirror way more advanced then anything seen in The Original Series, Original Movies or any Next Generation era TV show.

    *Did USS Discovery 'teleport' like right above a star...with no shields...were like even a 24th century ship, with shields, would not survive? And they talk about 'heat', but no radiation?

    *So the monster is phaser proof...so why did the security chief think her phaser would have any effect on the creature?

    *The scans of the monster are way more advanced then anything seen in The Original Series, Original Movies or any Next Generation era TV show.

    *And could not she scan a claw of the monster, without cutting it off?

    *Sure is amazing , that the ‘monster’ can..um..talk to the fungus and navigate space/substace/whatever.

    *And it is even more amazing that not only can Starfleet, somehow communicated with the creature…but also communicate really complex astronomical data.

    *Amazingly, the USS Discovery ‘jumps’ to the planet like three seconds after they loose their shields…

    *And does the USS Discovery ‘teleport’ into the planets atmosphere? That seems a bit low, to make a jump.

    *The most logic fail of the show: USS Discovery is a fungus teleport special ship…..not a Super Dreadnaught Battlestar. It is the science ship that is testing and creating the fungus drive. It is not a warship. So why does the Captain, or even Starfleet think that ‘teleporting’ the ship into battle is a good idea?

    *And, all most as bad....how, oh, how does the telescope get to Michael? The telescope is ON the USS USS Shenzhou when they abandon ship. So in that life or death situation...someone ran and got the telescope?


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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Discovery isn't perfect, but I continue to be impressed with the show. It's still Star Trek, but it's different from its predecessors. I like the exploration of the tension of explorer vs. soldier that is part of Starfleet. I love Burnham, and like Stamets, Tilly and Saru. Lorca is interesting.

    The weakest part, for me, is that the show grinds to a halt whenever the Klingons appear. I don't mind the subtitles, it's just that none of the Klingon characters have done much to interest me.

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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    The Klingons remind me of Voldemort when they speak. They don't even sound like TNG era Klingons. I think this throws me even more than the cosmetic changes.
    Last edited by RCgothic; 2017-10-13 at 04:55 AM.

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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    There have been Klingon-dominated episodes in TNG and DS9, I get without prompting that when they're speaking Klingon to Klingon they're actually conversing in their native tongue to one another - it's a nicety for the sake of the actors and the audience so they can perform well - and I would argue that those episodes would've sucked if they took this approach to them regardless of the strength of the writing otherwise.

    They sound like they're literally barking half the time. Klingon's fine when used sparingly but actually doing lengthy dialogue-heavy sequences with it is a pall on what is already fairly underwhelming material here.

    This is just my opinion of course, and I get people who want greater verisimilitude than what the quasi-magical Universal Translators and the like do for the series, but practical use of fictional languages in Star Trek should only be employed when they intend to express something significant about communication. Darmok is the most famous and best example, but there have been others. There's no point to it otherwise.

    Every time I hear them talk on Discovery my mind just goes wondering.
    Last edited by Kitten Champion; 2017-10-13 at 02:49 AM.

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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiousLeader View Post
    The weakest part, for me, is that the show grinds to a halt whenever the Klingons appear. I don't mind the subtitles, it's just that none of the Klingon characters have done much to interest me.
    I find the massive over use of sub titles boring as it forces me to ''watch the screen'' and the words slowly..slowly...slowly are put up. The Klingons bark a bunch of sounds....then slowly we get ''In order to save our Empire---BIG HUGE CUT" "CUT BACK--- we must get everyone together---BIG HUGE CUT" "CUT BACK---and have an honorable dance party!"


    Watching the show....I kind of get the idea that the story was made to take place in the 24th century, like say ''10 years after Voyager/DS9''. Like:

    *The Super Advanced Tech- Well everything we see like holo communicators, holo mirrors and holo graphic displays all make much, much, much more sense ''after Voy/DS9''. But shows that the ''start'' of such tech, that slowly expanded over the years. Like the USS Discovery has holo emitters all throughout the ship, when all most no 24th century ship had that until mid ''VOY/DS9''.

    The same is true of the Super Advanced AI computers, smarter then all most any 24th century computer....until you get to Data and The Doctor.

    *The ''fungus warp drive'' might even make a tiny bit of sense for a 24th century ship with Bio-Neural Gel Packs, as you could make...um...Bio-Neural Jello Molds, or something like that. But it does provide a nice ''link'' between ''bio'' and ''tech''. And it would make even more sense in the 24th century with Starfleet having ''Borg Tech'' and ''Tin Man'' Tech(saying him and Tam come back to the Federation at some point).

    *AND most of all the ''Evil Traditional Klingons " Make much, much, much, much more sense in the (late 23rd and) 24th century. All the way back to Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country we have the ''Evil Traditional Klingons " that don't like change and want to stay with the Old Ways. The first time we see Klingons on TGN, they are rebel ''Evil Traditional Klingons ". Later on TNG we get the whole Worf Arc of ''Worf's Federation Way'' vs the ''Evil Traditional Klingons ", most notably the Duros family. This arc carries over into DS9 where the ''Evil Traditional Klingons " DO break the Empire away from the pack'tha Federation and go back to the Old Ways. Then the Dominion War heats up, and alone the Klingons can't fight the Dominion...so they have to join the ''Alliance''. Fighting as allies, a lot of Klingons find they ''like'' the Federation and lots of freindships are made. We see lots of this on DS9.

    Then the Dominion War ends...and the Klingon Empire is in shambles.....AND it has a new pro Federation ''peace'' Emperor. DS( really, really, really highlighted this in the ''root beer scene''. Where Quark has Garik (both from very different, but very Not Like the Federation societies) try some root beer, and he does not like it. Quark compares root beer to the Federation...it is a happy bubbly drink, that tastes bad at first, but you learn to like it.....Just Like the Federation. And both the Fengrengi and the Cardassians get ''Federation-ized''.....just like the Klingons.

    Now with all that as a back ground the ''Evil Traditional Klingons " of T'Vkvma makes a LOT more sense.


    But then ''CBS person'' gets a hold of the show....and for ''whatever'' reason...though likely to ''copy the reboot movie'', make the show ''a prequel''. So they give the Story to random writer A, who most likely is a typical sci fi hating monster writer who just ''scribbles whatever together'' to make the show. So they mark and ''x'' on anything that says ''24th century star trek'' and then scribble in ''add old, dumb sci fi stuff''. And they did have just enough sense to hire ''writer Z'' and tell them ''quick look over this awesome show and add any stupid dumb refrences to that stupid dumb Trekkie stuff that you and the idiot viewers think is important. So this guy like added ''the USS Shran'' at the battle, but could not change any of the big, huge, dumb stuff (Like he'd say ''um fungus drive sounds kinda dumb". And CBS Suit would be like ''Of course it sounds dumb, it's super stupid dumb sic fi crap..lets just hope it makes us some money. muhahahahaha!) And you get: Discovery.

  26. - Top - End - #296
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    I see where some of what you're going with comes from Darth Ultron and I think it is very possible that something along those lines happened, just with a whole lot less cynicsm.

    For one thing - I really contest the idea that this must have been handed to someone who hated Sci-Fi if only because of how many nods I see to so many other sci-fi stories. If Discovery has a problem on that front is that it doesn't want to just be Star Trek, it wants to be all the sci-fi.

    The Tardigrade "Navigator" - Dune
    The spinning Saucer - Stargate
    The new bird of prey's look like Gu'oald fighters to me (Possible stargate)
    The profile design of the Klingon skull makes them look like young xenomorphs (Alien)
    The DASH drive (mushroom warp) works like a Blink Drive (Dark Matter)
    One of the bridge officers looks like Nebula from Guardians of the Galaxy (I am groot)
    Mirco-biology based "force" connecting the everything? (Starfleet discovered Midichlorines)
    I'm sure we will get some Battlestar Galacticca like moments soon.

    You could cynically read this as "writer hates sci-fi and just throws anything that looks sufficiently sci-fi at script to see if it sticks"
    you could also read this as "writers are fans of sci-fi and want to put pieces of all their favorite sci-fi's into one sci-fi"

    I don't think either of them is particularly good writing, but it doesn't have to come about through apathy.

    As for the Federation Klingon war happening after Voyager, that's what Star Trek Online went with for their plot (though of course it was just Dominion War 2.0 with Species (Number with an 8 a 6 and a 4... can't remember it) manipulating both sides into conflict... exactly like the Dominion had done before) and that war then takes a back seat to a Borg invasion and other things because its an MMO and needs lots of reasons to blow stuff up.

    If they had done this post-voyager it would have actually worked better with the Romulans than with the Klingons.

    All this said, I'm pretty sure the reason the show is not set post-Voyager is that it has been a very long time since Voyager and most "new" fans they could hope to grab were introduced to Trek through the JJ-verse films. While the show wanted to go back to the Prime universe, there was a rights issue that came up in a very odd way. They wanted to make a prime-verse show but were required to use JJ-verse aesthetics. Trying to create a JJ-verse show set post Voyager would be even more jarring than what we have now.

    Add into that any show set post Voyager has the anti-borg bio ship baddies, borg, Klingons, Romulans post destruction of Romulus, Cardassians in the Federation, Bajor, the wormhole, access to the Gamma Quadrant, all of Voyager's tech upgrades, slipstream travel, possible access to the Delta Quadrant...

    That's a whole lot of things to balance because you know the fans will want to see it all. I think the choice to set it when they did was a combination of "The story they want to tell," "Riding on the popularity of the nuTrek films," "Hedging their bets" (If it really bombs with fans in the end they can shove it into the JJ-Verse and make it non-canon).

    So I think its equal parts Marketing saying the this time period is a safer bet, Graphics saying they've already got an established aesthetic they can run with, and writers saying -This time period works well.

    They want a Federation which is second guessing its own ideals - this can't happen post Voyager (If the Borg and the Dominion didn't break the Federation a few radical Klingons won't have a shot). Post Voyager the Feds are hands down the strongest force in the known galaxy. With Voyager's tech they're easily 50 years ahead of everyone else in the Alpha and Beta quadrants and can knock Borg cubes out of the sky like there were tie-fighers. Romulus is gone, Cardassia is reliant on Federation aid, the Ferengi are defacto allies (there is no one else left to trade with), The Klingons have a pro-federation emperor.

    That's a perfect time to do a story dealing with radical terrorist factions threatening the peace and fracturing the unity of the Federation on its outer rim - leading to the rise of separatist movements among old allies and a weak ability to respond to old threats growing strong again. That would also be a very topical show, it might even be the better show - heck it might have been the original pitch... but I'm pretty sure Graphics said they've already got JJ-era FFX done and developing new ones would cost too much while Marketing said it was too risky, making something which looks like a JJ-verse TV tie in is much safer.

  27. - Top - End - #297
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Ultron View Post
    I find the massive over use of sub titles boring as it forces me to ''watch the screen'' and the words slowly..slowly...slowly are put up. The Klingons bark a bunch of sounds....then slowly we get ''In order to save our Empire---BIG HUGE CUT" "CUT BACK--- we must get everyone together---BIG HUGE CUT" "CUT BACK---and have an honorable dance party!"
    While I have no issues with subtitles (and generally find complaints about them to be poorly justified) the decisions made with regard to Klingon dialogue in Discovery are just bad in general. The actors are very clearly memorizing their Klingon lines phonetically and then being forced to sound out every syllable with extreme care, which results in everyone talking very slowly, speaking in monotone presentation voice all the time, and also someone sounding like they are perpetually out of breath - honestly I worry that those prosthetics are hard to breathe through or something. The actors consistently look like they are experiencing severe discomfort. It's painful to watch, reminds me of Colin Firth acting out a severe speech impediment in The King's Speech, and ruins any sense of intimidation or menace the Klingons might be meant to invoke.

    I understand the impulse to have the Klingons not speak English on screen, but how could anyone have looked at the test footage and not said, 'hey, guys, I get what you're trying to do here, but this is positively painful to listen to.'
    Resvier: a P6 homebrew setting

  28. - Top - End - #298
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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperPanda View Post
    Post Voyager the Feds are hands down the strongest force in the known galaxy. With Voyager's tech they're easily 50 years ahead of everyone else in the Alpha and Beta quadrants and can knock Borg cubes out of
    the sky like there were tie-fighers.
    I presume they used some temporal prime directive stuff to get rid of those future Janeway upgrades because they weren't anywhere in Nemesis which is post Voyager return.

  29. - Top - End - #299
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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Chen View Post
    I presume they used some temporal prime directive stuff to get rid of those future Janeway upgrades because they weren't anywhere in Nemesis which is post Voyager return.
    Yeah, well we only ever see the Voyager herself with those upgrades and its entirely possible that they got temporal-paradoxed out of existance / only work against the borg / only work on an Intrepid Class (i.e. Voyager) / hadn't been reverse engineered yet...

    I didn't have any problem with Enterprise not having been refit to post-voyager silliness for many reasons - not the least of which I found voyager's silliness less visually interesting than default starfleet stuff. On the level of hand-wavium its similar to how Star Trek Into Darkness introduces transporters which can instantaneously transport someone from earth to Q'onos (I'm sure I spelled that wrong) [And warp-drives which can get you there in minutes unless JJ-verse Scotty is the type to sit around in a bar for a whole week complaining about not being on a mission] only to have these technologies vanish without another word.

    Trek doesn't have a lot of consistency with its technology.

    TMP - "go to the center of the galaxy? sure that's a day or two out of our way."
    Voyager - "1/4 across the galaxy? That's 70 years at best."
    TNG - "Warp 14"
    Voyager "Warp 10 makes you a lizard and is a blink drive."
    Discover "Blink drives run on mushrooms"
    Enterprise "The center of the Klingon empire is 5 days away at warp 5."

    I love the franchise to bits, but most of it is an internally consistent as the uniforms in Star Trek: Generations. Its the biggest reason why the aesthetic changes in Discovery mostly don't bother me. (mostly... the TNG era Klingons still look good enough, some updates to their clothes, weapons, ships, some extra details and we're good. I think the Discovery team went to far but I'm still hopeful there will be some sort of payoff for the new aesthetic (no idea what).

  30. - Top - End - #300
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperPanda View Post
    All this said, I'm pretty sure the reason the show is not set post-Voyager is that it has been a very long time since Voyager and most "new" fans they could hope to grab were introduced to Trek through the JJ-verse films. While the show wanted to go back to the Prime universe, there was a rights issue that came up in a very odd way. They wanted to make a prime-verse show but were required to use JJ-verse aesthetics. Trying to create a JJ-verse show set post Voyager would be even more jarring than what we have now.
    I'm sure they were trying to ''grab'' the new fans too. After all ''they'' never care about the 54% of real Star Trek fans. If they would make good Trek, they would have like 100 million fans.....but they only ever really care about the 10,000 who will be like ''Trekz is cool, pew pew!"

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperPanda View Post
    That's a perfect time to do a story dealing with radical terrorist factions threatening the peace and fracturing the unity of the Federation on its outer rim - leading to the rise of separatist movements among old allies and a weak ability to respond to old threats growing strong again.
    Well, I think it could work ''post 24th century''.

    You would get the whole idea of the ''federation riding high'' and being all happy, but have the much darker side of the whole cost. DS9 touched on this a lot with the Dominion War and the loss of people and ships. And that little bit where like 75% of the fancy new TNG ships were all destroyed early in the war and Starfleet had to pull all the old ships out of mothballs and use them.

    So it would not quite be a dark age, but more a ''well it will be a bit until things will be back to normal"


    Quote Originally Posted by Chen View Post
    I presume they used some temporal prime directive stuff to get rid of those future Janeway upgrades because they weren't anywhere in Nemesis which is post Voyager return.
    It is possible future Janeway sabotaged the tech so that it could not be used/duplicated.

    Also Janeway does say all the tech is anti-borg, so it might only work vs them.

    And assuming some dumb Federation person does not say something dumb like ''this tech is too cool for us to use."

    Even if they had the tech, it would still take a lot of time to use it fleet wide.

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