Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

[Cikomyr]

It was neither necessary nor desirable however, for them to do yet another prequel

What the hell does that mean, "necessary"?

Was it necessary to make TNG?
Was it necessary to make Empire Strikes Back?
Was it necessary to make a Marvel Cinematic Universe?

And regarding desirability; speak for yourself. I dont care prequel, sequel, requel. I just want a good show with good stories. I dont care a fig where or when it is located.

If setting it at that time period really stirred the writers's boggle, good for them. . As long as they try to make something interesting and entertaining with it.

And they have.

[ImperiousLeader]

This show clearly celebrates many essential things about classic Star Trek, and yes, the they talk like they do in a Trek show, but we still have people cutting into the thread several months in just to snipe and say this show isn't Star Trek.

That's fandom. I've had similar ... shall we say, discussions ... about the reboot movies, even TNG and DS9. Everyone has their own Star Trek purity scale. What bugs me is when it's from people that haven't bothered to watch the show. I don't discuss The Orville, because I no longer watch the show.

[Cikomyr]

That's fandom. I've had similar ... shall we say, discussions ... about the reboot movies, even TNG and DS9. Everyone has their own Star Trek purity scale. What bugs me is when it's from people that haven't bothered to watch the show. I don't discuss The Orville, because I no longer watch the show.

I discuss what I saw of the Orville.

Which was good humor, good plot, atrocious pacing.

[Reddish Mage]

I discuss what I saw of the Orville.

Which was good humor, good plot, atrocious pacing.

And I still think comparing Orville to Discovery is like comparing beer to expensive wine.

Ok, I said Big Macs to filet Mignon, before but you get the idea.

Discovery is on a whole other level.

[Cikomyr]

And I still think comparing Orville to Discovery is like comparing beer to expensive wine.

Ok, I said Big Macs to filet Mignon, before but you get the idea.

Discovery is on a whole other level.

Both can be good. Its like Marvel V DC. There is nothing wrong with both being successful, the genre as a whole will just be more popular.

Someone told Orville gets much better after a few episodes. I may try one day.

[Scowling Dragon]

And I still think comparing Orville to Discovery is like comparing beer to expensive wine.

I know. You pick up that expensive wine and you see that really the ingredients are cheap despite the flashy label, how its actually a dollar store brand poured into a recognizable bottle for value recognition. How all the money and jazz is being used to prop up something cheap and trashy on the inside.

And you see socialites drink it and talk about its smooth advanced tast and all you can do is keep your distaste to yourself and let out deep sighs and wonder if they can even tell the difference in wine at all, and would it make any difference.


Then you open up that cheap beer and its not great. But for what it is its way better then you expected.

[Cikomyr]

I know. You pick up that expensive wine and you see that really the ingredients are cheap despite the flashy label, how its actually a dollar store brand poured into a recognizable bottle for value recognition. How all the money and jazz is being used to prop up something cheap and trashy on the inside.

And you see socialites drink it and talk about its smooth advanced tast and all you can do is keep your distaste to yourself and let out deep sighs and wonder if they can even tell the difference in wine at all, and would it make any difference.

...?

Wait. So in that fancy scenario of yours, you can read cheap ingredients on top of a fancy bottle that contains cheap wine?

Can't you just admit that the series is just not to your taste without claiming your judgement is some sort of objective evaluation of quality?

[Scowling Dragon]

...?

Wait. So in that fancy scenario of yours, you can read cheap ingredients on top of a fancy bottle that contains cheap wine?

The metaphor still sustains itself because apparently this bottle lists its ingredients but people drink it and call it expensive anyway.

Can't you just admit that the series is just not to your taste without claiming your judgement is some sort of objective evaluation of quality?

Im happy with people having a taste for things (Varying levels of violence, blood, archetype, character, music, plot structure), but I evaluate quality of those elements in executing that direction.

If your a Fan of JJ Abrams ster Trek good for you. As not a fan of that work and most of his work in general it deeply disapoints me that this new Series follows in his footsteps. I find it pretty generic outside of its Star Trek namebrand.

I do find it distasteful that it wears the Franchises name.
You can find the show to YOUR taste as much as you like, but if I evaluate it as a Star Trek show, Id say its...pretty terrible.

The Orville is wrapped in Seth Mcfarlens style and execution (That Im not a fan of), but I see it having elements that are indeed much closer to the thematic elements Star Trek.

[Bohandas]

JJ Abrams is kind of mediocre in general

[Scowling Dragon]

JJ Abrams is kind of mediocre in general

No he's pretty smart. But smart in ways I dislike. Hes the master of misdirection and "I have your money now" storytelling.

Hes the master of making massive mysteries, and pretty looking things, but he never HAS plans for those mysteries. He literally makes it up as he goes along.
So the end result is never satisfying, but he has your money.
And its not good, but it is pretty smart to make that.

[Reddish Mage]

The metaphor still sustains itself because apparently this bottle lists its ingredients but people drink it and call it expensive anyway.

The metaphor doesn't hold up because just about nothing about Discovery is cheap. I suppose they could have gotten A-list actors, but everything from the acting, to the set-design, the CGI, the camera action, all screams prestige TV, while they write complex multi-story plots for each episode.

This is stuff closer to an expensive HBO show than a TNT drama. There's a lot of criticisms you can level at Discovery but cheap is not one of them.

[Scowling Dragon]

complex multi-story plots for each episode.

PFFFFFFFFFFF
Man, I haven't had a good joke like that in a while.

Its all zazz. The fundamental nature of the show feels low rent and cheap. The exact sort of parody that is "Star Trek as done by Hollywood".
Its expensive sets, and special effects for really cheap and shlocky writing.

And so I say that no amount of expensive sets and pretty looking actors compensate for a weak script, and weak thematic content.

[Reddish Mage]

PFFFFFFFFFFF
Man, I haven't had a good joke like that in a while.

Its all zazz. The fundamental nature of the show feels low rent and cheap. The exact sort of parody that is "Star Trek as done by Hollywood".
Its expensive sets, and special effects for really cheap and shlocky writing.

And so I say that no amount of expensive sets and pretty looking actors compensate for a weak script, and weak thematic content.

Please enlighten me by pointing out these these “cheap” components of the script. What is sounds like to me is your just taking a “cheap” shot.

[Scowling Dragon]

Please enlighten me by pointing out these these “cheap” components of the script. What is sounds like to me is your just taking a “cheap” shot.

Well much of the stuff has been listed already before me, but to me it was making Klingons even dumber (they managed it somehow), as well as regressing to simpler faction dynamics.

DS9 repeatedly suprised me with its neat interfaction play, and the universe felt much more lived in. The dominion is a cool villian, but its the slow boil and how each faction reacted to them which made it cool.

Also the show wants to wallow in nostalgia, but also play the “treat me differently” card whenever compared.

[Cikomyr]

Well much of the stuff has been listed already before me, but to me it was making Klingons even dumber (they managed it somehow), as well as regressing to simpler faction dynamics.

DS9 repeatedly suprised me with its neat interfaction play, and the universe felt much more lived in. The dominion is a cool villian, but its the slow boil and how each faction reacted to them which made it cool.

Also the show wants to wallow in nostalgia, but also play the “treat me differently” card whenever compared.

I love DS9. And I totally remember all of the bolded to appear in the first 9 episodes of the show.

Totally, Discovery is crap because it hasnt risen to the same standards

[Scowling Dragon]

I love DS9. And I totally remember all of the bolded to appear in the first 9 episodes of the show.

Totally, Discovery is crap because it hasnt risen to the same standards

And it doesn't even have to be the SAME standards. It could be great under different standards (Assuming it still feels like Star Trek).

Voyager feels pretty bad for trying to copy the Standards of TNG (And having pretty crap writing).
But DS9 made me realise that no, my standards are not too high. DS9 is more then 20 years old now.
But the people behind the show repeatedly don't care. They are not people who where interested in going forwards.

[Cikomyr]

Again. First 9 episodes of DS9.

Vs first 9 episodes of DIS.

[Scowling Dragon]

Again. First 9 episodes of DS9.

Vs first 9 episodes of DIS.

No for sure Discovery is an embarrassment. I meant that if it wanted to try to build on the franchise in its own way I would be happy with that as well.
But it didn't, it reset, became dumber then even Enterprise......Welll...OK slightly smarter then Enterprise and became the same blockbuster war Shlock.

Even in terms of that If I wanted a more gritty war Space opera I would watch the Expanse.

[Reddish Mage]

Scowling, you don't seem to differentiate between "bad," "cheap" and "I don't like it."

DS9 is hardly the barometer at which "less good than this" indicates lousy writing, and it certainly doesn't provide for "cheap writing" vs. a more sophisticated style. Cheap writing conjures fan-fiction themes, recycled plot-lines, adhering to simplistic formulas, and abundance of cliches. Possibly heavy doses of fan-service, gratuitous violence and titillation is thrown in for good measure.

Discovery does have a pretty sophisticated style and there is plenty of inter-factional struggle going on among the Klingons (Also, I'm pretty sure L'Rell has been on every side at some point).

Also, the Federation is pretty at odds with themselves too. The Vulcans, Admirals, the Admiral that visits, Sarek, Vulcan extremists, all have very different opinions on what to do and factions fight among themselves during the series even more often than they have fought with each other.

[Cikomyr]

No for sure Discovery is an embarrassment. I meant that if it wanted to try to build on the franchise in its own way I would be happy with that as well.
But it didn't, it reset, became dumber then even Enterprise......Welll...OK slightly smarter then Enterprise and became the same blockbuster war Shlock.

Even in terms of that If I wanted a more gritty war Space opera I would watch the Expanse.

Again, your arguments are all purely subjective, arguing that you dont like it instead of making an objective appraisal of its quality.

I meant that if it wanted to try to build on the franchise in its own way I would be happy with that as well.
But it didn't, it reset, became dumber then even Enterprise

Appraising DIS's quality on wheter or not its a prequel is using an arbitrary argument. Its irrelevant; Voyager was dumb as hicks and yet it "built on" the Franchise. Rogue One is a prequel, and yet its a great movie.

You dont get or lose point based on "its a prequel". You get and lose points on the quality of the product you present. You are making the same mistakes other Hollywood producers make to rationalize badness: "Oh, people think our prequel movie sucked. Must mean they dont like Prequels". No, it means you made a sucky movie. Just like sucky Pirate movies made everyone at Hollywood believe Pirate movies would never work until PotC.

OK slightly smarter then Enterprise and became the same blockbuster war Shlock.

You are being fully disingenuous here. Discovery has the overall war plot hanging over everyone's head. The same was DS9 did. The war is not the focus of every individual episode plots tho; it may be the overarching motivator for an episode's plot, but not the focus.

Actual war stuff is minimal. Sure, you could argue that "Lorca gets captured by the Klingon" is a full war episode, but tell me how many episode of Star Trek revolve around "the Captain gets captured"? Its a standard trope that they decided to apply within the overall storyarc.

And comparing DIS to ENT in any measure is just closing your eyes on why ENT sucked. ENT's Characterisation was stupid and mindless archetypal. The Captain was making nonsensical decisions and yet everyone insisted that he is awesome. The writers themselves had no idea what the overall plot would be.

Enterprise's list of failures is a long, sad story of people who just wanted to make a Star Trek series because they had to make a Star Trek series because there always been a Star Trek series for the past 14 years. They had no passion, they had no joy, they had no thoughts.

Compare Season 1-2 to Season 3 (where Braga finally got to.write a 24-like plot like he always wanted so he put a bit of his soul into this) and Season 4 (where the main writer was actually passionate about making stories).

People insist that the Abrams film were stupid, but they were all a mile above the dredge that was Voyager and Enterprise at their worst.

And Discovery? Discovery's worst has proven to be above Voyager's average so far. Just because their Best doesnt come close to TNG/DS9's best either doesnt mean they shouldnt get their chance.

Discovery's first 9 episodes certainly blow out of the water the first 9 episodes of any modern Trek series. Its better than DS9's, better than VOY's, better than ENT's and certainly better than TNG.

[Scowling Dragon]

Again, your arguments are all purely subjective, arguing that you dont like it instead of making an objective appraisal of its quality.

Jeez I was being facetious.

Appraising DIS's quality on wheter or not its a prequel is using an arbitrary argument. Its irrelevant; Voyager was dumb as hicks and yet it "built on" the Franchise.

You missed my point completly. I didn't mean prequel or not. I meant that TOS, then TNG, then DS9 all built on themes and complexity of each of the previous series, challenging their own characters and world more then before.
...OOH. I get it, I got the impression you hated Discovery as well.
I couldn't tell apart your sarcastic text. . Use blue color or make it more clear next time.

Honestly its not worth my time talking about a show thats just utter garbage. You enjoy it? Alright.

[Cikomyr]

Honestly its not worth my time talking about a show thats just utter garbage. You enjoy it? Alright.

For someone who doesnt have the time to talk about it, you post here a lot.

[Reddish Mage]

Its one thing to come on over to a fan thread to say you don't like something, and its another thing to come over and indiscriminately hurl insults at the material.

Then when you are called out, you admit being facetious, call the show "utter garbage" and say its beneath you to talk about it. This after you started the discussion in the first place.

You are trolling. Stop it.

[Bohandas]

Appraising DIS's quality on wheter or not its a prequel is using an arbitrary argument. Its irrelevant; Voyager was dumb as hicks and yet it "built on" the Franchise. Rogue One is a prequel, and yet its a great movie.

Rogue One was terrible. Most of the characters were unlikable, there was frequent diabolus ex machina, that rebel extremist guy did nothing and had no personality, the big slow motion explosion after the death star fires had people moving at normal speed in the foreground, bad writing turned Tarkin into an over the top cartoon (to say nothing of him also literally being a cartoon), and the last scene completely undermined the first scene of the original movie

[Cikomyr]

Rogue One was terrible. Most of the characters were unlikable, there was frequent diabolus ex machina, that rebel extremist guy did nothing and had no personality, the big slow motion explosion after the death star fires had people moving at normal speed in the foreground, bad writing turned Tarkin into an over the top cartoon (to say nothing of him also literally being a cartoon), and the last scene completely undermined the first scene of the original movie

Rogue One was awesome. The characters were interesting; broken people who decided to give it all for the Cause. Saw was useless, but the scenes on Jeddah were cool overall.

The death Star firing scenes were pure awesome. It made you feel much deeper what it felt to be under the gun of this Technological Terror. And how oppressive it would be to the Galaxy.

Tarkin was always an over the top cartoon villain, and the entire movie just enhanced the struggle for the Plans and the Rebels of ANH.

[Bohandas]

The death Star firing scenes were pure awesome. It made you feel much deeper what it felt to be under the gun of this Technological Terror. And how oppressive it would be to the Galaxy.

I think it seems a bit less threatening. It causes a lot of property damage to be sure but it would be easy to safely outrun in any kind of vehicle. Honestly it seemed like something out of an old Invader Zim cartoon

[Cikomyr]

I think it seems a bit less threatening. It causes a lot of property damage to be sure but it would be easy to safely outrun in any kind of vehicle. Honestly it seemed like something out of an old Invader Zim cartoon

Woth?

The explosion is literally outpacing the U-wing going at top speed. The only people who escape it did so by going into freakkin' FTL.

You know, just because a nuclear explosion's forcewave seems slow when watched from orbit doesnt meant its slow.

[Bohandas]

Woth?

The explosion is literally outpacing the U-wing going at top speed. The only people who escape it did so by going into freakkin' FTL.

You know, just because a nuclear explosion's forcewave seems slow when watched from orbit doesnt meant its slow.

The view from orbit was fine (which was sort of a problem itself, the rate of expansion was inconsistent between views; in the view from space it took out an entire octant of the planet, in the view on the ground it barely took out the area surrounding Jedha City), it was the explosion as seen from the ground that was an issue.

They spent a couple of minutes fleeing the outskirts of that city, it should have been gone in a couple of seconds

[Cikomyr]

New episode!!

Mirror Universe! Amazingly beautiful uniforms!! Goddamn gay killer!

[Sinewmire]

The view from orbit was fine (which was sort of a problem itself, the rate of expansion was inconsistent between views; in the view from space it took out an entire octant of the planet, in the view on the ground it barely took out the area surrounding Jedha City), it was the explosion as seen from the ground that was an issue.

From orbit you're seeing the ejecta and dust cloud from all the stuff that was dropping on them. Saw Guerrera's base was a decent distance from Jedha City, and there was an exaggerated mushroom shape above the main action, if I recall correctly.

Anyway.

yay, alternate universe terran empire!

Their uniforms and attitude were pretty cool. it made me want to go and play Star Wars: The Old Republic again, because of how much it made me think of the Sith Empire.

I loved that Lorca, in both universes, doesn't seem to be able to play by the rules.
I loved "Captain Killy"
I loved how the evil alternate of the federation... was basically the Klingons.

Both me and my partner were hoping out loud that the main characters would decide to stay and rule the galaxy as father and son.... friend and friend.... you know what I mean.

Who is the Emperor? Please don't let it be Mudd.