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2017-09-25, 11:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer
I went looking for spoilers of the second episode, since I don't plan to watch it. I found this Q&A, which does indeed have some spoilers. There's one part that intrigues me enough to speculate on it:
Spoiler: Speculation!TVLINE | We do see Sarek in the premiere, and we know Harry Mudd is coming, and Discovery is only set a decade before the original Trek series. Any chance we might see more familiar characters, or even just nods to the original series?
For sure. We’re operating in a time that has been referenced within canon, but not entirely elaborated on. So that gives us some freedom to invent certain details, as long as we’re consistent with the details that everybody knows about. Harry Mudd is a great example of that. Yes, we can, and should, meet characters who exist within the universe at the time, and the question is: How do you present them in a way that is consistent to the vision of the original characters, but also bring something new to the table? To me, it’s the hardest part about doing Trek, but it’s the most rewarding if you get it right.
I'm inclined to think there will at least be mention of Captain Pike and the Enterprise, which means they might cast another Spock (I doubt they could get Zachary Quinto for the series, but maybe for a one-off cameo it would be possible).
I imagine they might have Andorians at some point, maybe Tellarites as well.
Commodore Matt Decker seems like another possibility.
I imagine there will be at least a passing reference to the USS Farragut and its captain Garrovick. I wonder whether we'll hear about promising young lieutenant James T. Kirk.
I also wonder whether they can restrain themselves from showing Romulans, since the Enterprise encounter with them in the episode "Balance of Terror" was supposed to be the first ever visual contact with them (I didn't watch enough Enterprise to know whether they already retconned this).
Who else might we see?
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2017-09-25, 12:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer
Spoiler: Balance of TerrorEnterprise did have a Romulan episode, although this was vaguely kept in continuity by not having them seen. It's at least less egregious than the nonsense with the Borg or Ferengi.
As the Federation has already fought a war with them, having them appear would more be a matter of narrative limitations. Does the audience want a continuing dramatically ironic arc where the crew confronts mysterious ships the audience is familiar with? Keep the Romulans isolated? Seems unlikely.
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2017-09-25, 01:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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2017-09-25, 01:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer
Spoiler: also spoilerI too like it. I'm still a bit on the fence about the new and improved Klingons. Parti cu larly thei-r speech pat tern is a bit anno ying, even in a made up language I'm reading the subtitles too. I remember them being able to string more than two syllables together. I like how Starfleet technology looks. They grabbed some bits and pieces from everywhere and together it works. I love the shot where we are first shown the bridge, actually showing us where it's located on the ship. It may or may not be the best place for it on a ship that gets shot at, but it's just nice to have a clear location. The story seems to be heading in a slightly grimdark direction, which I'm not sure I'd be a fan of, on the other hand. I also want to see what they're going to do with a series focused heavily on humans, klingons and vulcans. And maybe we'll even get to see a little more of the more elusive Federation members. They actually namedropped a whole bunch up to and including the tellarites (space pigs) in this episode, so I have good hopes. For a modern, binge watchable, season arc driven series it might even work better than a strange alien of the week exploration show, which most of the series were for their first few seasons.Spoiler: double spoilered for people who have only seen one episode yetwe already pretty much know there's going to be a prisoner promoted to captain, so good things can happen to these characters
The Orville I guess is on the to watch list for when I can handily find it somewhere, so I can't compare at this point.
EDIT: Oh, by the way, I'm definitely sold on the new bat'leth. It pretty much looks like a weapon now. I look forward to the first Klingon duel.Last edited by Lvl 2 Expert; 2017-09-25 at 02:56 PM.
The Hindsight Awards, results: See the best movies of 1999!
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2017-09-25, 02:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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2017-09-25, 02:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer
It would just be super confusing to "mix" the timelines like that. Not necessarily in universe as an explanation but definitely out of universe. Not to mention Zachary Quinto is in fact older than Leonard Nimoy was when TOS started and they look NOTHING alike.
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2017-09-25, 06:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer
Interesting. Thank you.
I am leaning - should either eventually appear in a position for me to view them in the UK, but maybe trying the former; but as someone who is not a fan of high drama1 (serious business I can cope with), and the very idea of the main character, Discovery holds less appeal for me to make an effort to see.
1Unless you can do it like Babylon 5 did it (though that is literally the gold standard). If you can call what B5 did high drama, 'cos if it wasn't I probably don't wanna know what high drama is...!
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2017-09-25, 06:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer
O gods, what dreck. What beautifully detailed, thoroughly overhyped dreck.
From the very first dialogue between the captain and the XO, it was clear that the show was poorly written and lushly produced, and nothing for the rest of that hour changed that impression.
The first sequence on the desert planet made absolutely no sense—the action seemed to follow a stream-of-consciousness approach to writing dialogue, without any logic or consistency. Worse, virtually all of the dialogue was blatant exposition, thoroughly unnecessary for the characters themselves.
Why do they need the captain and the XO to walk around the desert for hours before shooting a laser rifle down a well? How are desert-garbed, highly visible bipeds any less a violation of the proto-Prime Directive than a dune buggy would be?
I wanted to like this, I really did. Here are a few of the reasons why I can’t.
Spoiler: Klingons Are Fishfolk NowSeriously, the assembled Klingons looked like nothing so much as angry merfolk in some undersea castle. I think it was the spiny armor; all they needed were nets and tridents.
Spoiler: Mobile Suit Gundam FTW!!!!No, not really. The spacesuit looked thoroughly ridiculous with its oversized Japanimation shoulders.
Also, frustratingly, it looked nothing like the TOS suits. Granted those were extremely clunky, but at least a nod to the lineage would have been nice, rather than going for the Gundam look.
Spoiler: Contrived, Contrived, ContrivedIt’s hard to say which element was more ridiculous and contrived—the fact that a front-line exploratory starship has no remote probes, forcing a crew member to fly recon in a spacesuit; or the accidental impalement of the Klingons’ annointed champion on his own weapon by a clumsy Federation officer.
The first element was contrived for extra drama, and as a setup for the second element, which was contrived to make the XO a living causus belli. Apparently the Klingons’ champion was a real butterfingers. This is one small step from pure slapstick, and yet another plot point that feels like it was dreamed up in the bleachers during middle-school recess.
“Dude! It would be so awesome if she jams her thrusters and runs right into him, and stabs him with his own space sword!”
Seriously, the Shenzou doesn’t have a single shuttle? Or did I miss some contrived dialogue about how they were all out of commission?
Spoiler: Collect Call from the Outer RimThe technology in this show is so radically different from TOS that it seems clear we’re in yet another alternate timeline. The most glaring discrepancy is an obvious borrowing from Star Wars—the holoconference, which was never shown in TOS. Given the fade effects that were used in TOS in conjunction with the transporter-sparkle, some version of this could have been done in TOS if they’d had the concept, so it can’t just be excused as something digital effects have only recently allowed.
In terms of the story, it’s remarkably convenient that Sarek is available to give the XO his advice the instant she calls—even though for all she knows, he could be in the shower, or meditating, or in a council meeting, or off on a diplomatic mission.
But even allowing for plot convenience, it says nothing good about the XO that when she’s faced with a crisis, she immediately turns to her father figure rather than trying to work it out for herself. This is like a college student calling her dad when there’s a problem with her class schedule.
And really, wouldn’t the so-called “Vulcan Hello” be common knowledge in Starfleet, given the close association of Vulcans and humans at this point? And wouldn’t it be especially well-known among those ships most likely to encounter Klingons? There seemed to be no real point to the holoconference with Sarek, other than to make a little more use of James Frain.
Spoiler: Court-Martial That *****The interactions between the officers quickly went from casual to ridiculous to utterly unacceptable. Banter is one thing, but senior officers pushing back and forth over a console is childish and unprofessional. I can’t imagine the command crew of a top Federation ship behaving that way. Maybe they were trying to give the crew a family vibe, but it came across as thoroughly juvenile.
That was bad enough, but the XO’s behavior towards the captain—lying, physical assault and usurpation of command—deserved instant dismissal from active duty and a court-martial at the earliest opportunity. There is absolutely nothing that justified the XO’s actions—an officer of her supposed caliber would never behave so unprofessionally. Disrupting the chain of command during a standoff crisis could lose the entire ship, and every minute of the XO’s training and experience would only reinforce the bedrock importance of obeying rather than assaulting your captain.
And all this, over a point of tactics? Seven years the XO has served with the captain, and she can’t bring herself to trust the woman in a moment of crisis? This XO has no business being in uniform.
Spoiler: The Klingon Bat-Signal, or A Brief Lesson in LightspeedSo the much-ballyhooed Klingon Beacon, aka the Glowstick of Destiny, is supposed to be a signal to call the two dozen noble houses to rally at the rally point of heroic rallying, or something like that—basically a giant Klingon bat-signal.
And it relies on a giant burst of light to speed across the universe, waking fire in the hearts of all true Klingons and urging them to speed towards it, etc. etc.
Except these Klingons are scattered all over the quadrant or whatever, which is probably quite a few lightyears across. And yet, the Klingons all show up within moments of the beacon being fired, before all that light could even start to cross the protoplanetary disk, much less crawl across those intervening lightyears.
Star Trek has played fast and loose with pretty much every branch of science there is—but this is such a glaring failure of basic astronomy that it left a sour taste in the mind. They did a better job of following known science in TOS than with this dreck.
Spoiler: Warp Drive, Hyperspace, It's All the SameSo Klingons are now flying Star Destroyers, at least to judge how they came out of hyperspace. The effects were absolutely identical to Star Wars ships dropping out of hyperspace, and the obvious imitation completely ruined what should have been a dramatic, stomach-dropping moment.
Spoiler: I Can't Wait to Stream This!o god no.
The writing is juvenile, the premise contrived, the lead character’s behavior unprofessional and entirely unbelievable. And because of that, I don’t give a tinker’s damn about her, or about what happens next.
Maybe if this ever shows up in syndication I might give it another look. But I’m not spending a red penny on this in any format, and I’m certainly not signing up for a streaming service just for more of this nonsense.Last edited by Palanan; 2017-09-25 at 06:03 PM.
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2017-09-25, 06:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer
Okay, I just finished watching both episodes and I'm... surprise, at the direction they chose. I'm caught between finding it somewhat fresh, and feeling let down.
Spoiler
It IS strangely refreshing to finally see flagrantly defying the rules actually blow up in a character's face. But it annoys me that, as far as I can tell, the protagonists accomplished nothing. There was a big loss of life, the Klingons are united and on the warpath, Sarek's pep talk proved meaningless, Georgiou died (a huge waste of a character) and T'Kuvma has become the martyr and symbol Burnham predicted.
Yes, this all means there's nowhere for Burnham to go but up, but it's not exactly a satisfying beginning.
"Is this 'cause I killed the hippie? Is that even illegal?"
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2017-09-25, 07:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer
Seriously, the Shenzou doesn’t have a single shuttle? Or did I miss some contrived dialogue about how they were all out of commission?
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2017-09-25, 09:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer
So MovieBob REALLY loved the first 3 episodes so far. Is it a good watch?
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2017-09-25, 09:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer
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2017-09-25, 10:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer
Last edited by Olinser; 2017-09-25 at 11:00 PM.
Artist of my Avatar: http://www.deviantart.com/art/Rakrakrak-272771299ALL HAIL THE GREAT RAK!!
I use the same name in every game I ever play or forum I join (except the pretender on PSN that forced me to be RealOlinser). If you see an Olinser in a game or on a website, there's a high chance it's me, feel free to shoot me a message.
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2017-09-25, 11:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer
Tali avatar by the talented Thormag.
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2017-09-25, 11:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer
As someone who's more of a fan of VOY and TNG than the Abrams reboot, I'm not quite as repulsed as a lot of people seem to be. I will say that I'm uneasy about where the series is going to go, but am remaining hopeful.
Here are some thoughts I had while watching it:
- Are Klingon ships now just dramatic ledges, windows, and tiki torches?
- Poor Spock, no wonder he has daddy issues if Sarek will mind-meld with everyone but him.
- Was the tribunal passing judgement on Burnham supposed to be the ENT crew, or was that my imagination?
- I guess we're getting only bald Klingons now?
- My sister and I couldn't stop giggling at the holograms for communications. Don't ask me why.
I REALLY hope that the Discovery writers realize that recurring enemies like the Klingons are more potent if they show that Starfleet is supposed to be exploring rather than fighting. If we get like 1 Klingon episode for every 2-3 "normal" Star Trek episodes, this might work out.The not-so-secret identity of Nat1Advice.
I also write more serious 5e content on my blog, TBM Games.
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2017-09-26, 12:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer
Mwah, for a (double) first episode, Star Trek has done a lot worse. I for one am curious how this will evolve.
Spoiler: okay, let's try to techsplain thisNot saying it's not bull****, but most of it is moderately manageable bull****. The beacon was not just light. There was a component that made their hull plates resonate audibly, which could have been just sound loud enough to travel through the thin gasses in the accretion disk, as silly as that would be, but there was also a sound component they could shut off, meaning it was probably some sort of transmission. Most transmissions used in the show are subspace transmissions. The beacon is ancient, but clearly space age and far from the Klingon home world. So it makes sense for them to have this technology on their, and that's what the other Klingons heard. The Vulcans might be looking for stars using probes, which relay their data through subspace. However, the probe would have needed to be really close to the system, which seems unlikely, unless it was a (still working) part of that Starfleet communications relay they were fixing. The other option is that they watch stars through subspace. it's not unreasonable to think a massive fusion reactor would give some sort of signal, they just filter it out on communications channels, maybe use different frequencies.
Sure, that's a bit far fetched, but after thinking about it for a bit I find the least plausible component to be how each of the 24 Klingon houses had a ship close enough to respond.The Hindsight Awards, results: See the best movies of 1999!
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2017-09-26, 05:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer
Not really. For a long while, this thread was just people bitching and pre-emptively disliking everything they saw about the show.
Well, a female black main character being perceived as obnoxious by default in geek fandom is par for the course, sadly.
And writing is lackluster.. what is your measuring stick? Encounter at Farpoint lackluster, or Caretaker lackluster? Or maybe Broken Bow lackluster?
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2017-09-26, 06:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer
I know that I'm not the person you were asking - and I seem to have liked it more than they did - but I think I can give you an idea of what's meant.
The main problem is that the show both sets and expectation of having a great deal of subtly and having none what-so-ever. There are a number of "nu-trek" feeling elements to the tech, characterization, and aesthetics which suggest that there will be no subtly in the show. Example: The Klingons have a holy "beacon" which they light causing Vulcan researchers to assume there is a new star being born in their system - like many NuTrek tech points it could be Treksplained using Technobable but no one even bothers trying. We're left with technology that might as well be space-magic. I've heard some people prefer this to the tendency to technobable absolute nonsence in an attempt to sound smart and for others it is equally or more anoying that trying to explain it. Similarly the forced relationship with Serek rather repalcing Serek with a different Vulcan figure and leaving the rest of the plot points intact (there is also a point where she makes a subspace call to him and he is able to take it and start talking the instant she reaches out to him).
Add to these issues that at serveral points we're directly told that Burnham is a good officer (Direct characterization) and we're left assuming that she's a perfect neo-vulcan figure. But the actress's performance betrays emotions that she doesn't know how to process which suggests a subtley that they hint at a couple times in the episodes but neither confirm or deny. They seem to be setting them up for a slow development and pay off which is very promising, but the other elements give viewers reason to doubt the team's abilty to make that payoff.
Its not great, but its trying to be. I compare this to Orville which is not bad, but is trying to be.
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2017-09-26, 06:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer
Didn't the bridge crew specifically say there was some sort of subspace transmission going on when the beacon illuminated?
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2017-09-26, 07:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer
I find THAT a pretty disgusting perspective in my view. Everybody here spent some time raving about how awesome DS9 is, and then is the argument that when the Lead goes from Black, then Black and Female, suddenly all our irrational hatred switches are turned on?
Maybe thats why the reactions are the same, because they keep using gender and skin color to deflect from poory written characters.
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2017-09-26, 07:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer
I need to rewatch the scene - I know that it was measured in lumens, caused the Shen Zhou's hull to vibrate audibly, and traveled faster than light while a character light years away mistook it for a new star in real time.
To their credit the crew were clearly confused by this tech - and they didn't have much time to examine it/explain it. I don't recall hearing the word subspace but it could easily have gotten lost in the shuffle.
I personally liked Discovery. I went in with high hopes and low expectations. I left the pilot with my hope intact and my expectations raised.
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2017-09-26, 08:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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2017-09-26, 08:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer
You got me, you brilliant person figured it out. Anybody who doesn't like something with a "minority" figure in it, is just a stupid bigot. No other reason.
Like It just keeps happening. The writing quality for female characters is low, you take a few peoples irrational dislike for something and use it to cover up and deflect criticism from a majority so the writing never improves.
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2017-09-26, 08:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer
I enjoyed the first two, but they are a prologue, not a pilot. The goal is to introduce Burnham, Sonequa Martin-Green's character. I really like her, and seeing her and Michelle Yeoh's Captain Georgiou light up the screen provided me with a lot of entertainment.
I guess it depends on how much you care about the aesthetics of the show. Personally, I didn't want cardboard walls and foam rocks, and Discovery looks cinematic af. It looks better than most of the movies.
It is also Star Trek, despite what some think. It feels like Star Trek, certainly hits several key themes and plot elements of Star Trek, it wears the politics of Star Trek on its sleeve, it even has some of that clunky Trek dialogue. I don't think the show is perfect, but as a first episode, this ranks up there.
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2017-09-26, 08:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer
I'm not really sure why the commander is getting criticized here. She clearly has a HUGE problem with Klingons what with them killing her parents. She's also NOT a Vulcan despite being raised by them so her having emotional issues is perfectly reasonable. They mentioned that practically no one had even seen a Klingon in 100 years. Her having basically a mental breakdown after being attacked by the Klingon is not terribly unreasonable. She's trying to hide it in professionalism and logic and is clearly failing to do so. I don't see how that makes her poorly written in any way.
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2017-09-26, 09:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer
Because she has to be perfect, but not too perfect, wouldn't want her to be a Mary Sue. :rolleyes:
The funny thing is is that I'm not entirely sure she was wrong in advocating for a Vulcan hello. Her actions afterwards were clearly in the wrong, but had Georgiou accepted her recommendation ... I'm not sure. Quite possibly, things would have shaken out the same, because T'Kuvma clearly wanted this war.
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2017-09-26, 09:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer
Originally Posted by Cikomyr
Well, a female black main character being perceived as obnoxious by default in geek fandom is par for the course, sadly.
The writing would have been just as terrible, and the XO’s behavior just as ludicrous, whatever her features might have been.
Originally Posted by Cikomyr
And [the] writing is lackluster.. what is your measuring stick? Encounter at Farpoint lackluster, or Caretaker lackluster? Or maybe Broken Bow lackluster?
Viritually everything about the pilot was contrived, the characters uninteresting and their behavior unbelievable. Beyond this—there isn’t even a nod to the deep spirit of Star Trek, which is about peaceful exploration and the wonder of the unknown.
Even Voyager, which was reheated pablum at best, at least made an attempt at honoring that spirit. But there’s no evidence of that in Discovery, just a transparent effort to copy-paste the look and feel of Star Wars, sprinkled with the frothier elements of nuTrek.
Originally Posted by Chen
She's trying to hide it in professionalism and logic and is clearly failing to do so. I don't see how that makes her poorly written in any way.
The effects were gorgeous and top-notch, I'll give them that; but Discovery only demonstrates that the best effects in the world can't compensate for sloppy writing and a half-baked premise.
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2017-09-26, 09:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer
It depends on your scale. As Pilots go this isn't that bad, but that's with the grace that most pilots are only tolerable for introducing the series and mercifully forgotten as a show finds its legs. And Trek usually gets off to rough start. This is not "Broken Bow" bad. Discovery has more potential heft than that valium induced cream puff.
The intro has an excellently sane invocation of the prime directive after the last two series went up their own asses with smug naturalism fallacies. But the execution is sloppy and the dialogue is a clunky exchange of two people explaining what they both should already know.
My biggest issue is the writing, with the lead character especially, pushes Gene Roddenberry's no conflict too far in the opposite direction. A little interpersonal drama is good. The show goes so far past that it's difficult to believe she's a trained officer, much less a product of Vulcan discipline and foresight.Last edited by Legato Endless; 2017-09-26 at 09:30 AM.
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2017-09-26, 09:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer
So, did you even watch the show? Because:
1. Burnham's log talks about the beauty of the binary system they are in.
2. Burnham advocates checking out the unknown object, despite the personal risk. Literally exploring.
3. The poor ensign talks about how this isn't Starfleet, he's an explorer, not a soldier.
4. Georgiou and the admiral are at many times trying to deescalate the conflict with the Klingons.
5. T'Kuzma's whole argument to his Klingon brethren is that the Federation's multiculturalism is a threat to their Klingon nature. Discovery is wearing Star Trek's political beliefs on its sleeve.
So ... yeah, not a nod at all to the spirit of Star Trek.
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2017-09-26, 09:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer
Yeah I definitely don't see this being completely divorced in terms of thematic identity. The Federation as an emblem of infinite diversity in infinite forms coming up against an aggressive Nationalist power driven by a short sighted obsession with a romanticized past is Trek Moralism 101. Though one wishes we were getting a different race than necromonger Klingons as the mouthpiece.