Fallout VII - Vault-Tec calling

[Avilan the Grey]

Welcome to the sixth thread where we discuss, enthuse about, and rag on our favorite post-apocalyptic roleplaying game.

I'm doing this on my phone so please someone link to the older threads?

[Mutazoia]

Welcome to the sixth thread where we discuss, enthuse about, and rag on our favorite post-apocalyptic roleplaying game.

I'm doing this on my phone so please someone link to the older threads?

Previous threads:
Fallout 4: It's Happening!
Fallout 4: It Happened!
Fallout Thread III: Preston Garvey Demands BLOOD!
Fallout 404: GECK Not Found
Fallout V: Old Thread Blues
Fallout VI: Shotguns & Six-shooters

[Triaxx]

Seventh thread actually.

So... favorite Fallout 4 weapon mods, now that we've had a chance for them to really turn up? 10mm SMG is absolutely mine. I mean, it should have been in the game to start with. The fact that it's been done so well only makes me happier to see it.

[Balmas]

Wasteland Melody's Chinese Assault Rifle. It's a lovely-looking weapon, it ties back to Fallout 3, it has a lot of weapon mods that are very well implemented, and it's powerful enough to use as a combat-rifle upgrade. I'll note that the animations are off--WM used the assault rifle animations from Fallout 4, which means you're sliding a bottom-loading magazine through the side of the gun. Grab the Damn Mag fixes it, though.

I feel like I have a weird opinion on weapon mods. I see stuff like Skibadaa's weapon pack, and it's an amazing mod. It's got a ton of weapon with tons of weapon mods available, and they're all high-res models, and they all perform comparably to in-game weapons. It adds variety and flair to the limited weapon variety in Fallout 4. At the same time, they just don't seem to... well, fit in with the world. Something about the art-style of the weapons makes them feel too much like real-world weapons and not enough like Fallout 4. I dunno.

[LibraryOgre]

So, a bit of a conceptual question: What do you feel are the big world differences between Fallout 1/2/Tactics and Fallout 3/NV/4?

[Balmas]

So, I found a weird glitch in my latest episode of Fallout 2. (We're on episode 5, by the way.) I'm in the Den, right? I do the whole quest with Lara. With the Restoration Patch installed, you have two fights--one at the church, and then another at a house south of town, where Kelly's gang is getting totally smashed.

Except... Well, normally, once you finish the fight, you teleport to the church, and Lara thanks and pays you. This time, something went wrong. She just sat there and kept saying, "COme on, follow me!" When I left the map and went back to the church, Lara was there, and gave me the same spiel about "get ready, but you're coming with us, you ready yet?" I said yes, and so we teleported to the south map--where Lara was already waiting. So we have two of Lara's gang in the south, and then another lara's Gang in the church map. Any idea what went wrong and how to solve it?

So, a bit of a conceptual question: What do you feel are the big world differences between Fallout 1/2/Tactics and Fallout 3/NV/4?

When you say world differences, are you thinking in terms of the feel of the games, or in how you approach exploration, or in terms of story-world integration?

[LibraryOgre]

When you say world differences, are you thinking in terms of the feel of the games, or in how you approach exploration, or in terms of story-world integration?

Good clarification. I am thinking more feel of the games and story-world integration. Like, if you ignore they are games (and some of the stupidity that happens because of that), what's different from the world presented by Early Fallout and Late Fallout?

[Balmas]

Personally, I feel like Fallout 1+2 really excel because they make exploring the world a natural thing, something that rewards the player for their choices.

When you leave Vault 13, you're told that Vault 15 is over to the East, go check it for a water chip. But on your way there, you find something in your way: Shady Sands. You can either stop in and see what it is, or go straight to Vault 15, but it's your choice. It's presented naturally, in a way that lets you explore and decided where to go. If you go to Vault 15 straightaway, you'll need a rope, but now you have an idea of where you could go to get one. And once you explore and find out that Vault 15 is all collapsed and destroyed, you have a starting place to ask around for where to go next. Maybe Junktown. Or the Hub, maybe.

Quests are the same way. You walk into Junktown, and ask around for the person in charge. As you're asking around, someone walks in, and starts shooting up the place. If you help, the mayor thanks you, and asks for your help fixing Gizmo, the guy who's been trying to kill you. The world is happening around you, and suddenly you're embroiled in a police drama, getting a confession, or wiretapping someone's bookshelves.

In the original Fallouts, the onus is on the player to decide where to go, who to talk to, how to solve their problems. Compare that to Fallout 3 and Fallout 4:

In Fallout 3, you walk out of the vault, and there are signs pointing to Megaton. Once you get inside, one question paints an arrow on your compass to Moriarty. After some shenanigans, he paints another arrow to GNR. After some shenanigans, Three Dog paints an arrow on your compass pointing to Rivet City. From there you get an arrow to the memorial, and to some place west of Evergreen Mills. At virtually no point are you told to think for yourself, or find things out organically.

It gets even worse in Fallout 4. You walk out of the vault. Codsworth tells you to go to Concord. Mama Murphy tells you to go to Diamond City. Ellie tells you to go to Nick. Nick tells you to go to Kellogg's house. Nick tells you to go to follow Dogmeat. Once you kill Kellogg, Nick tells you to go to Goodneighbor. Every time, you're led by the nose by this stupid compass marker telling you exactly where to go. And even worse than Fallout 3, Fallout 4 makes it impossible to come across things in the main quest organically; you can't go to Fort Hagen and find Kellogg until you you rescue Nick. You can't go and talk to Virgil until the main quest decides you can.

That's what stands out to me, mostly. One lets you come across things organically and lets you search around on your own initiative. The other tells you exactly where to go at almost every step of the way. There's another argument to be made about the different attitude that the games have about your place in the world, but I've rambled on for long enough in this post. Maybe another day.

[Avilan the Grey]

Seventh thread actually.

So... favorite Fallout 4 weapon mods, now that we've had a chance for them to really turn up? 10mm SMG is absolutely mine. I mean, it should have been in the game to start with. The fact that it's been done so well only makes me happier to see it.

Favorite mods for me are the small adjustment things, like the one that gives all Vertibirds max level so they can't be shot down by a raider with a pipe gun.

[Triaxx]

The Chinese Assault Rifle could definitely benefit from the Nuka-world Handmade Rifle Animations.

As for the first couple games, they were massively more exploration oriented. Tactics is the equivalent to Icewind Dale. Much less story oriented, and far more focused on the combat aspects.

Compared to 3/4, they featured not only much less hand-holding, but were much more forgiving to working out how to actually play. The one bit Bethesda did better than F2 was the tutorial. Compared to F2's disaster of one, it was awesome.

NV is one of the best in my opinion, for managing to balance between the two extremes.

[factotum]

Something about the art-style of the weapons makes them feel too much like real-world weapons and not enough like Fallout 4. I dunno.

I dunno, I think there ought to be *more* real-looking weapons in Fallout, not less--that way you could at least have a 200-year-old military locker containing something other than a pipe pistol (which obviously makes no sense at all, since pipe pistols are explicitly weapons cobbled together from random junk after the bombs fell, not something a pre-war military would be using).

[Beleriphon]

The Chinese Assault Rifle could definitely benefit from the Nuka-world Handmade Rifle Animations.

As for the first couple games, they were massively more exploration oriented. Tactics is the equivalent to Icewind Dale. Much less story oriented, and far more focused on the combat aspects.

Compared to 3/4, they featured not only much less hand-holding, but were much more forgiving to working out how to actually play. The one bit Bethesda did better than F2 was the tutorial. Compared to F2's disaster of one, it was awesome.

NV is one of the best in my opinion, for managing to balance between the two extremes.

I personally found Fallout 4 to be really good for exploration. Sure the main quest is pretty much pointy, but the settlements and especially the radian quest from characters like Preston, really make sure you get out and look around the map. Plus, there are some nice pointers between different areas for the raider gangs.

Honestly, the connections in F4's different zones that aren't inherently connected directly by quests is much better than previous games. But then I suppose I'm biased that I just like stomping around in power armour finding stuff to look at.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I'm tempted to do a 'useful weapons' video for Fallout: New Vegas, going over many of the weapons, which ones work, which ones don't.

F/E:

The Underperforming:

* Most Shotguns. Because of how DT works.
* Most Automatic guns. Because of how DT works.
* Most Heavy Weapons. Because they are automatic guns, and DT sucks
* Most Plasma weapons. Because Laser Commander is +15% damage and +10% crit. Which is really hard to beat. Plasma Spaz, sadly, sucks.


The Good
* Brush Gun/Medicine Stick. One of the highest damage per shot weapons in the game, if you have invested in the Cowboy perk. Can easily out-damage AMR over long-term due to higher rate of fire.
* Christine's CoS Silencer Rifle. Best sniping tool for Guns characters.
* A Light Shining in Darkness. I would consider the best pistol in the game for Guns based characters. Improved Holdout weapon, solid damage, high rate of fire. Go visit Benny with this one, he's got a 9mm, you have a .45 ACP... guess who has the advantage now?
* Li'l Devil. The other top-end guns pistol. Light with Grunt perk will out-damage it, but Li'l Devil doesn't need a perk to pack a punch. Assuming you can keep it fed with 12.7mm ammo
* All American. If you have the Grunt perk... it isn't bad, per se, but the carbines in general are pretty under-performing. Still, obtaining this before Christine's can give you a viable early to mid game sniping tool that also doubles as a CQB Carbine.
* Survivalist's Rifle. While it packs the relatively rare 12.7mm ammo, it IS affected by the Grunt perk, which makes this a contender with Medicine Stick for 'highest damage per shot' as well as 'highest sustained damage potential' of any Guns based weapon in the game.
* Riot Shotgun. The best shotgun you can pick up. Due to how DT works, it is kind of an under-performer, but if you invest in Shotgun Surgeon and And Stay Back, it can be made to work

* Elijah's Advanced LAER. One of the best all-around energy weapons in the game, but is crippled with low durability. If you use it, keep a stockpile of Weapon Repair Kits handy, especially with Optimized cells
* Holorifle. Another top contender for best all-around energy weapons. This has a scope and is highly accurate if you get the mods. Elijah's LAER will out-damage it with Laser Commander, but the Holorifle has far better endurance, especially once modded, to make it also a fine all-purpose energy weapon.
* YCS/186. Basically the energy weapon equivalent of the AMR. If you want to snipe with energy weapons, this has the highest punch per hit scoped energy weapon. Holorifle may also substitute if you picked up the Wild Wasteland perk and so cannot obtain this.
* Hyperbreeder Alpha. Best pistol-based energy weapon in the game, and an improved holdout weapon. Fully automatic recharger pistol which recharges stupidly fast, and packs a decent punch. What's not to love?

* FIDO. Now, heavy weapons mostly suck because they're all low damage but rediculously high rate of fire weapons... which are almost completely ineffective against anything with DT. But, if you want a heavy weapon slugthrower, FIDO is the best of the worst. It has the highest per-shot damage, meaning most likely to penetrate armor and remain effective against heavily armored opponents. Granted, 5mm does have innate DT penetration, but that won't make up for the massively more damage FIDO does per shot.

* Plasma Caster. Like with slugthrowers, heavy energy weapons typically aren't all that good, and for much the same reason. Once its rate of fire is increased with the weapon mod available to it, it will have roughly the same rate of fire as the unique version at twice the damage per shot, making this the 'E for Effort' star of this lackluster bag of misfits.

* Thump-Thump. For indirect-fire explosives, this is the tool for the job. It has considerable range and muzzle velocity for a grenade launcher/rifle, and only weighs 5.5 to boot.

Honorable Mentions

*Dinner Bell. Technically, it has the highest damage per shot of any shotgun in the game. However, its slow reload speed and limited magazine size cripples its effectiveness vs the Riot Shotgun. Obtaining is also a pain.
* Lucky. Not a bad early-game gun, obtainable as soon as you hit Primm. If using Pistols is your thing, and you're still trying to get to the point where the DLC's are an option, this isn't bad. But you'll eventually want to upgrade to either Li'l Devil or Light Shining In Darkness.
* That Gun. I'm not sure where it got its reputation from, but I honestly don't think it deserves it. Lucky is obtainable earlier at Vicky and Vance Casino, assuming you can pass the Hard lock, and deals comparable damage with half the weight.
* Compliance Regulator. it was a neat idea... but sadly it doesn't really pan out due to how long it takes to swap out weapons.
* Paciencia. Considering how early you can obtain it, this isn't a bad 'courier's first sniping weapon' if you don't want to bother with Vault 34 any time soon, and it can out-damage AMR on a crit. But it just won't hold a candle to Christine's baby.
* Anti-Matériel Rifle. Newbies will look at the raw stats of this gun and claim it is the best because it has the highest damage per shot, but veterans understand that its bolt-action rate of fire is crippling for it. Christine's is superior, and so is Paciencia and even Medicine Stick for that matter.
* Ranger Sequoia. Much like the AMR, it looks better on paper than in practice. Low rate of fire, and the fact that it is NOT a holdout weapon, which is why most people carry a pistol, pull it off the list of toys I prefer to play with.

[Spore]

Good clarification. I am thinking more feel of the games and story-world integration. Like, if you ignore they are games (and some of the stupidity that happens because of that), what's different from the world presented by Early Fallout and Late Fallout?

Fallout 1/2/Tactics feel like a barren wasteland. They feel dangerous, sometimes quite sad, claustrophobic (old vaults or bunkers) or very hostile towards life.

Fallout 3 feels....empty? There should be more farmers or citizens around to be honest. The isometric Fallouts have an excuse because farms just dont show up on the maps. It conveys no real feeling to me other than it being bog standard and very devoid of interesting features.

NV kicks that up a notch. You have decent agriculture, a place where settling makes sense and a power supply with the Hoover Dam that is interesting for military factions.

Fallout 4 seems almost idyllic in places. In other places you feel dreaded (Corvega Factory) but the only environment that feels postapocalyptic is pretty much the Glowing Sea. Once again settling in the ruins of Boston would make sense but most skyscrapers are too unstable to actually live in (because I think people lack the skills and machinery to keep a Skyscraper standing). Settling near the river is attractive and plundering the ruins of Harvard would make sense for technological pilgrims like the Brotherhood.

[Triaxx]

There's a surprisingly large number of farms in the first two Fallout games. At least one in F1 that has you defeating some bandits, and as you run around in random encounters you see several in F2, plus the one near Modoc, not to mention the one's in the various cities.

I have to disagree on shotguns. They're much better at close range when the multiple pellets can take effect. But you can also get around the DT issue with slugs. That's also why 4/0 Buckshot is so good because there are fewer projectiles to spread the damage amongst. Technically 3/0 is better but the 20 gauge's do less damage. I also find myself disliking the Riot Shotgun for the same reasons as the Survivalists Rifle. I tend to end up spamming the trigger and burn through ammo hilariously fast.

Q-35 Matter Modulator is more efficient to carry and use than the Plasma Caster. Lower Strength and skill requirements, better crit chance, and less than half the weight. Plus the same ammo, and with much lower spread from it's shots.

Lucky's better than it looks, because for some distance afterwards, most gun using enemies will be carrying Cowboy Repeaters, which use the same ammo, so you're unlikely to run out of it, and will usually get more of it from the enemies you kill.

Personally I prefer per-shot damage to total damage. If I can kill the target in one shot, I'd prefer to do that and not worry about DPS if I don't have to. Thus for my preferred playstyle, the AMR and it's instant kill with a single shot capability is more useful than sitting and spamming out shots from a lesser gun. Basically I can cycle through an entire group of targets without having to reload my empty mag after each enemy.

The benefit to That Gun is it's unique ability to use AP ammo in a pistol. Being able to punch through Legion Centurion Armor around the time of Novac makes life considerably easier. It's also far faster to reload than the gate loading Lucky/.357 revolvers you'll have been using up to that point.

---

Fallout 4 had great exploration, but you're very unlikely to wander into new quests that way, or have to wander into them like that. Most of them are stuffed in your face.

[Balmas]

I dunno, I think there ought to be *more* real-looking weapons in Fallout, not less--that way you could at least have a 200-year-old military locker containing something other than a pipe pistol (which obviously makes no sense at all, since pipe pistols are explicitly weapons cobbled together from random junk after the bombs fell, not something a pre-war military would be using).

I'm not even sure of my own feelings on the matter, man. I mean, I like how FWE brings in dozens of real-world weapons like the FN-FAL and Lewis Gun. I like Millenia's weapon pack for New Vegas, and that's almost entirely real guns. I dunno what it is about Fallout 4 that makes me like real-world weapons less.

I'm tempted to do a 'useful weapons' video for Fallout: New Vegas, going over many of the weapons, which ones work, which ones don't.

F/E:

The Underperforming:

* Most Shotguns. Because of how DT works.

With the caveat that shotguns can also be made to work and even be extremely powerful thanks to custom ammo and perks like Shotgun Surgeon and And Stay Back!

* Most Plasma weapons. Because Laser Commander is +15% damage and +10% crit. Which is really hard to beat. Plasma Spaz, sadly, sucks.

I note also that most plasma weapons require two ammo per shot to laser weapons' one, and their slower projectiles means that they require a lot more practice to use effectively out of VATS.

The Good
* Brush Gun/Medicine Stick. One of the highest damage per shot weapons in the game, if you have invested in the Cowboy perk. Can easily out-damage AMR over long-term due to higher rate of fire.
* Christine's CoS Silencer Rifle. Best sniping tool for Guns characters.

If you do the video, it's worth noting that you're probably going to be using one or the other, since both .308 ammo and 45-70 gov't use the Large Rifle primers and powder. Contreras sells thousands of .308 ammo, and I think the best source of 45-70 is Quartermaster Bardon at Hoover Dam.

Personally, I prefer Christine's COS rifle for my mid-long range needs. It has a higher crit multiplier, a wider variety of ammo types, and a silencer. What's not to like?

* A Light Shining in Darkness. I would consider the best pistol in the game for Guns based characters. Improved Holdout weapon, solid damage, high rate of fire. Go visit Benny with this one, he's got a 9mm, you have a .45 ACP... guess who has the advantage now?
* Li'l Devil. The other top-end guns pistol. Light with Grunt perk will out-damage it, but Li'l Devil doesn't need a perk to pack a punch. Assuming you can keep it fed with 12.7mm ammo

It's easy to keep fed, if you're friends with the Khan armorer. She sells thousands of the rounds.

* Elijah's Advanced LAER. One of the best all-around energy weapons in the game, but is crippled with low durability. If you use it, keep a stockpile of Weapon Repair Kits handy, especially with Optimized cells
* Holorifle. Another top contender for best all-around energy weapons. This has a scope and is highly accurate if you get the mods. Elijah's LAER will out-damage it with Laser Commander, but the Holorifle has far better endurance, especially once modded, to make it also a fine all-purpose energy weapon.

The problem with the LAER is that if you're doing an energy weapons build, you're probably critstacking. And the LAER, both normal and Elijah's, have crap critical damage compared to pretty much every other energy weapon in the game. If you're looking at it purely in terms of DPS with no crits, then yeah, the LAER is good, but in practice, the holorifle is the far better choice.

* Thump-Thump. For indirect-fire explosives, this is the tool for the job. It has considerable range and muzzle velocity for a grenade launcher/rifle, and only weighs 5.5 to boot.

No mention of Mercy? I mean, it's absurdly impractical to have a machine-gun grenade launcher, but if you're talking big guns and explosives, it's kinda hard to miss that one.

Honorable Mentions
* Lucky. Not a bad early-game gun, obtainable as soon as you hit Primm. If using Pistols is your thing, and you're still trying to get to the point where the DLC's are an option, this isn't bad. But you'll eventually want to upgrade to either Li'l Devil or Light Shining In Darkness.
* That Gun. I'm not sure where it got its reputation from, but I honestly don't think it deserves it. Lucky is obtainable earlier at Vicky and Vance Casino, assuming you can pass the Hard lock, and deals comparable damage with half the weight.

That Gun is a .223 pistol, which had the distinction of dealing damage on par with a sniper rifle in Fallout 1 and Fallout 2. If you have a low Agility, That Gun's one-and-done reload means you can reload and keep firing a lot more quickly than with Lucky's one-at-a-time revolver load. Finally, That Gun uses 5.56 ammo, which means you can use AP rounds against things like robots and super mutants.

I agree that Lucky is the better gun, but That Gun isn't bad, either. You don't need to rush lockpicking to get it by the time you get to Primm the first time, and you can get That Gun pretty much for free.

* Paciencia. Considering how early you can obtain it, this isn't a bad 'courier's first sniping weapon' if you don't want to bother with Vault 34 any time soon, and it can out-damage AMR on a crit. But it just won't hold a candle to Christine's baby.

I'd also tack on Ratslayer to this list. That's really the first real sniping monster you can get in the game. It's easily gotten for free, uses the super-common 5.56 ammo, and already has a silencer and a night-scope attached to it.

Fallout 1/2/Tactics feel like a barren wasteland. They feel dangerous, sometimes quite sad, claustrophobic (old vaults or bunkers) or very hostile towards life.

Which is kind of fitting, when you consider that they drew from Mad Max and took place in the California desert.

Fallout 3 feels....empty? There should be more farmers or citizens around to be honest. The isometric Fallouts have an excuse because farms just dont show up on the maps. It conveys no real feeling to me other than it being bog standard and very devoid of interesting features.

NV kicks that up a notch. You have decent agriculture, a place where settling makes sense and a power supply with the Hoover Dam that is interesting for military factions.

I'll note that both Fallout 1 and 2 had farms. They just took place on the edge of the city maps, where you could imagine that they stretched out enough to feed these places you visited.

Totally agree on Fallout 3, though. You had half a dozen places full of people consuming, but nobody producing anything in the entire wasteland.

Fallout 4 seems almost idyllic in places. In other places you feel dreaded (Corvega Factory) but the only environment that feels postapocalyptic is pretty much the Glowing Sea. Once again settling in the ruins of Boston would make sense but most skyscrapers are too unstable to actually live in (because I think people lack the skills and machinery to keep a Skyscraper standing). Settling near the river is attractive and plundering the ruins of Harvard would make sense for technological pilgrims like the Brotherhood.

I still feel like they could have handled downtown Boston so much better. If you just lock down the entrances and do a good job of purging the raiders and mutants inside, you could start to reclaim the city, which would mean you could start to rebuild humanity.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

There's a surprisingly large number of farms in the first two Fallout games. At least one in F1 that has you defeating some bandits, and as you run around in random encounters you see several in F2, plus the one near Modoc, not to mention the one's in the various cities.

I have to disagree on shotguns. They're much better at close range when the multiple pellets can take effect. But you can also get around the DT issue with slugs. That's also why 4/0 Buckshot is so good because there are fewer projectiles to spread the damage amongst. Technically 3/0 is better but the 20 gauge's do less damage. I also find myself disliking the Riot Shotgun for the same reasons as the Survivalists Rifle. I tend to end up spamming the trigger and burn through ammo hilariously fast.

Slugs go a long way to dealing with the scattergun effect, but then it isn't a scattergun so much as a brush gun writ large. Also, 4/0 is a Gun Runners load, which can't go in several types of shotguns, including the Riot Shotgun.

Q-35 Matter Modulator is more efficient to carry and use than the Plasma Caster. Lower Strength and skill requirements, better crit chance, and less than half the weight. Plus the same ammo, and with much lower spread from it's shots.

Plasma Caster was in the category of 'heavy energy weapons', where it is undisputedly the best of a sad, sorry lot. Q-35 is outshined by Elijah's Advanced LAER, the Holorifle, or any of the Laser weapons. Granted, though, it is superior to the other types of plasma rifles available to you.

Lucky's better than it looks, because for some distance afterwards, most gun using enemies will be carrying Cowboy Repeaters, which use the same ammo, so you're unlikely to run out of it, and will usually get more of it from the enemies you kill.

Personally I prefer per-shot damage to total damage. If I can kill the target in one shot, I'd prefer to do that and not worry about DPS if I don't have to. Thus for my preferred playstyle, the AMR and it's instant kill with a single shot capability is more useful than sitting and spamming out shots from a lesser gun. Basically I can cycle through an entire group of targets without having to reload my empty mag after each enemy.

The benefit to That Gun is it's unique ability to use AP ammo in a pistol. Being able to punch through Legion Centurion Armor around the time of Novac makes life considerably easier. It's also far faster to reload than the gate loading Lucky/.357 revolvers you'll have been using up to that point.

But with Cowboy perk, Medicine Stick actually does more damage per shot than the AMR. For that matter, Survivalist's Rifle with Grunt comes darn close. And Christine's has a much higher crit chance multiplier, which means on average does more damage per shot.

[Triaxx]

Nope, GRA loads work just fine in the Riot Shotgun. You may be thinking of 3/0, which doesn't work because it's the wrong gauge, being 20 instead of 12.

Frankly, in my opinion all Plasma is part of the Heavy weapon category. Lots of alpha damage, lower total DPS, big slow projectiles.

No actually, the Medicine stick only just crests the damage of the AMR if you have every single perk, but with the exception of Cowboy, they all apply to the AMR as well, and push it out of reach. AMR sits at 130 per shot, while Christine's just crests that at 135, WITH a critical. AMR leaves it completely in the dust at 240 with a critical. And crit chance only matters if you're sitting spraying shots, since all sneak attacks are automatic criticals. And if I'm sitting spraying shots with what's ostensibly a sniping weapon, something has gone totally sideways.

[Avilan the Grey]

I just got the quest to retake the castle (lvl 12).I think I'll wait until after I have done the Mechanist DLC. I will just do BoS and random quests until then.

Also I love the lore-friendly haircuts I installed:

Spoiler

Show

[Alabenson]

I'd also tack on Ratslayer to this list. That's really the first real sniping monster you can get in the game. It's easily gotten for free, uses the super-common 5.56 ammo, and already has a silencer and a night-scope attached to it.

Personally I'd probably put Ratslayer all the way onto the good list. Even after you get more powerful options like the COS or AMR, the Ratslayer still performs very well against lower level opponents such as raiders, especially since hollow-point/AP rounds for it are fairly common.

I just got the quest to retake the castle (lvl 12).I think I'll wait until after I have done the Mechanist DLC. I will just do BoS and random quests until then.

Have fun storming the castle! I regret nothing

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Personally I'd probably put Ratslayer all the way onto the good list. Even after you get more powerful options like the COS or AMR, the Ratslayer still performs very well against lower level opponents such as raiders, especially since hollow-point/AP rounds for it are fairly common.

If Ratslayer wasn't so difficult to get to, I'd agree with you. However, by the time you can get to Ratslayer, you've already got something like Paciencia.

I may put it in the list of 'good idea, poor execution' toys.

[Balmas]

Personally, I feel like the anti-materiel rifle falls behind for a number of reasons. While it's the best at what it does--that is, single-target sniping--it's one of those things that are awesome but impractical. It uses rare ammo, it fires more slowly than a flintlock pistol, it and its ammo are both super heavy, and in most cases it's massive overkill. It's a special-occasions gun; if I know I'm going to be facing things like top-level roboscorpions, or Rawr, or something like that, I might take it along for those special enemies. Even then, it only works well if you're able to kill them in one shot; otherwise, you're better off with a higher DPS weapon, like Christine's rifle, This Machine, or the Medicine Stick.

Actually, I'm kinda surprised that nobody's mentioned This Machine yet. It's the highest DPS .308 round weapon in the base game, second highest damage per .308 round in the entire game, and stacks up nicely even against DLC weapons. Plus, it looks good, sounds amazing, is easy to get.

And, well, you know... I'm kind of in love with the *ping* when you reload.

If Ratslayer wasn't so difficult to get to, I'd agree with you. However, by the time you can get to Ratslayer, you've already got something like Paciencia.

I may put it in the list of 'good idea, poor execution' toys.

...Um, what?

Ratslayer isn't difficult to get to at all. It's in the Broc Flower cave literally right next to the road to Novac. You walk in, slaughter a few rats, and grab the gun. It's that simple and that easy. You don't even have to kill the rats, if you don't want to. If you're following the path the game lays out for you, you literally cannot get to Paciencia without first passing the cave Ratslayer is in.

[Triaxx]

Given how I like my game modded, there's no kill like overkill. Most enemies are tough enough that even if they don't do more damage, need to be killed quickly or they'll last long enough to kill me.

Finding the cave is harder than getting the gun. You have to kill one total rat to reach it, and that's if you're not stealthy. The game path leads you up the road past RS Charlie, while the Broc Flower Cave is farther over towards the Viper encampment. So unless you swing down along the road past Searchlight, you're more likely to hit Novac first.

This Machine is actually pretty fantastic for the ammo it uses. It's got higher DPS than even Christine's. Though that Ping is depressingly inaccurate. It's actually the noise of the stripper clip hitting concrete, rather than the mechanism ejecting it.

[Alabenson]

Finding the cave is harder than getting the gun. You have to kill one total rat to reach it, and that's if you're not stealthy. The game path leads you up the road past RS Charlie, while the Broc Flower Cave is farther over towards the Viper encampment. So unless you swing down along the road past Searchlight, you're more likely to hit Novac first.

Finding the Broc Flower Cave is admittedly tricky on one's first play-through, but once you know where to look its conceivably possible to pick the gun up not long after you reach Nipton.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Given how I like my game modded, there's no kill like overkill. Most enemies are tough enough that even if they don't do more damage, need to be killed quickly or they'll last long enough to kill me.

Finding the cave is harder than getting the gun. You have to kill one total rat to reach it, and that's if you're not stealthy. The game path leads you up the road past RS Charlie, while the Broc Flower Cave is farther over towards the Viper encampment. So unless you swing down along the road past Searchlight, you're more likely to hit Novac first.

This Machine is actually pretty fantastic for the ammo it uses. It's got higher DPS than even Christine's. Though that Ping is depressingly inaccurate. It's actually the noise of the stripper clip hitting concrete, rather than the mechanism ejecting it.

I'm doing a mostly vanilla discussion, though, which means you also have to take into consideration Hand Load's JSP vs Match which is the best thing .50 can manage. Which puts Christine's over the top both in per shot damage AND DPS. Paciencia also has bonus crit damage and will out-damage the AMR on crits easily.

As far as This Machine... it's nice, I guess, but it requires an unmarked and somewhat convoluted quest to obtain. Compare/contrast with Survivalist's Rifle, which beats it out on all fronts.

[Balmas]

I'm doing a mostly vanilla discussion, though, which means you also have to take into consideration Hand Load's JSP vs Match which is the best thing .50 can manage. Which puts Christine's over the top both in per shot damage AND DPS. Paciencia also has bonus crit damage and will out-damage the AMR on crits easily.

As far as This Machine... it's nice, I guess, but it requires an unmarked and somewhat convoluted quest to obtain. Compare/contrast with Survivalist's Rifle, which beats it out on all fronts.

You underestimate it. It's available to everyone in the game. You find it in an area you're probably going to go to anyway. The quest can be done quite simply by talking to Lt. Boyd and the reading Contreras' terminal. What's more, it uses a common round that has AP, HP, and JSP variants.

Compare that to the Survivalist's rifle. It's found in the DLC. Not only is it part of an unmarked quest, it's in an unmarked location. It uses an ammo type that doesn't include AP, and the hand-loader variety is just another variant of hollow point. What's more, vendors in the DLC where you find it don't actually sell the ammo type you need, so you have to wait until you get back to the Mojave to actually use it.

Don't get me wrong. If you're willing to put in the effort necessary to find the SR, feed it, and give it perks, it'll treat you right. But This Machine is more easily found, doesn't require perk investment to be good, and is available to everyone, which is definitely worth a mention.

[Triaxx]

Running entirely with vanilla numbers, but counting all perks, then Paciencia does 85 damage per shot with JSP. Christine's does 95-96 (Don't know how NV rounds damage), and the AMR jumps to 149 with Match.

That said, in Hardcore, where weight of both the weapons, and ammo is an issue, Christine is flat out unbeatable. Even with the weight reduction perk, that cuts the AMR to 10 pounds, and Packrat to slice the weight of the ammo in half, the AMR is unfeasible for any situation where the crazy alpha is absolutely essential.

This Machine is only obscure if you're not working with the NCR, which is silly because you should, even if you're going down someone else's ending path. Hsu even directs you to Byrd when you ask him about work, so it's nigh impossible to miss the intro to the quest. Plus with it's different ammo types, it's much more effective against enemies in any kind of armor, while the basic 12.7 on the Survivalist's Rifle is the only one really effective against even lightly armored foes. Add in the sight's being difficult at best, and impossible at worst, the Survivalist's rifle is really only an option in comparison to a shotgun. This Machine has much better sights, and while it fires slower, the ammo is much easier to come by. Unfortunately, for straight damage, the Survivalist Rifle does beat it if you have Grunt, which affects it while it doesn't affect This Machine. (Not without a patch anyway.)

[Balmas]

Add in the sight's being difficult at best, and impossible at worst, the Survivalist's rifle is really only an option in comparison to a shotgun. This Machine has much better sights, and while it fires slower, the ammo is much easier to come by. Unfortunately, for straight damage, the Survivalist Rifle does beat it if you have Grunt, which affects it while it doesn't affect This Machine. (Not without a patch anyway.)

I will note that, for whatever reason, the Survivalist's rifle has a much lower spread than This Machine. (Go ahead and explain that one to me. )

Also, a patch like this one, perhaps? I mean, it makes sense for me that if Thompson SMGs and AR-10s are both Grunt weapons, then a weapon modeled after the M1 Garand should be too.

[Triaxx]

Pistol round in a long barrel has much higher velocity, so it'll move less.

[Avilan the Grey]

Huh. One of the mods I have apparently unlocks things like that shed in Hangman's Alley so it could be deleted.
So now I have a fairly efficient settlement there. Room for 8 ppl. 1 provisioner and 1 bartender... 6 empty slots. Those will be used for companions I don't like that much.