Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXX: Imperium After Dark

[Voidhawk]

Stacking a 5++/6+++ is not exactly what I'd call durable.
If you take 9 wounds you'll (on average) save 4/9. Which, while better than none, is nothing to bother advertising.

[Requizen]

Stacking a 5++/6+++ is not exactly what I'd call durable.
If you take 9 wounds you'll (on average) save 4/9. Which, while better than none, is nothing to bother advertising.

Well if Boyz are still as cheap as they are now, saving nearly half the wounds regardless of strength/AP is nothing to sneeze at. The amazing thing is having multiple 30 Ork blobs making each other essentially Fearless.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Hero placement looks like it's going to be a big deal, but especially for the greenskins (and I guess IG and 'Nid blobs too). If you're running 30 models per basic infantry squad, you might run out of actual physical space to put things and utilizing the 6" radius on a lot of these hero buffs could be tricky. Though the new character rules means it's easy to sandwich them safely between two large squads I guess.

[bluntpencil]

Hero placement looks like it's going to be a big deal, but especially for the greenskins (and I guess IG and 'Nid blobs too). If you're running 30 models per basic infantry squad, you might run out of actual physical space to put things and utilizing the 6" radius on a lot of these hero buffs could be tricky. Though the new character rules means it's easy to sandwich them safely between two large squads I guess.

Definitely!

Hide them behind your guys, to ensure they're safe, and you'll have to remove guys closer to the enemy, so you don't end up out of range. Put them forward and you might get shot!

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I think combining the new morale rules and the new Character rules should make some more interesting tactical movement, and Snipers are for sure going to become vital even against Horde armies in a way they weren't earlier.

[Requizen]

Definitely!

Hide them behind your guys, to ensure they're safe, and you'll have to remove guys closer to the enemy, so you don't end up out of range. Put them forward and you might get shot!

Well don't forget that Ork characters want to get into the fight. If you're hiding your Megaboss and Painboy to keep things safe, they're not getting in with Klaws. Positioning is going to be a super big deal for every army!

I think combining the new morale rules and the new Character rules should make some more interesting tactical movement, and Snipers are for sure going to become vital even against Horde armies in a way they weren't earlier.

*Looks expectantly at my Deathmarks*

[Blackhawk748]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/...on-focus-orks/

ORKS

Ok, lets get into this....

-Meganobz are a 2+ W3, which is very tough in this edition
-Big Choppa seems pretty good (S+2, Ap-1, 2 Damage)

Meganobz are largely what i figured they'd be, ie solid and the Big Choppa doing 2 damage actually makes it viable now

-Warboss can hit d3 models in a unit to prevent more from running away
-Nobz stop fleeing from Morale tests on a 6+ for nearby units (supporting Boyz blobs)

So he has a built in (and crappier) bosspole and apparently they learned nothing from New Ramshackle, not realy zesty here, but its free so w/e

-Mob rule apparently lets you have LD equal to the number of models in a unit, making big blobs of Boyz very hard to shift via Morale

*checks the date* its not a decade ago, but thats my old Mob Rule..... ITS BACK BABY!!!

-Painboy gives a nearby unit 6+ wound ignore (FNP). Dunno if this is passive or an ability that needs to be activated.

*crashes* Eewww, way to punish all the peole who bought 3+ Painboyz GW. Geez, and FnP was the only reason you bought a Painboy. Heres hoping theres a way to up that, cuz that sucks.

-KFF is a 5++ against shooting for all nearby units! Stack that 5++/6+++ for hard to shift Orks!
-WAAAGH lets you Advance + Charge (unknown if it's a one-off or all the time)

So pretty much what they are now and have been for two Codexes? Moving on.

-'Ere We Go rerolls charge distances, unknown if it's just an army rule or more specific

Well thats a nice improvement, still wish Charge distances wherent random, but at least you actually move them now. Progress!

-Wierdboy has Da Jump spell, letting him teleport one nearby Ork unit anywhere on the board with no scatter, 9" away. Guessing you can still charge since that seems to be standard now, but no scatter is a big deal!

Well thank Mork this is finally decent.

All in all, not bad, not great, more or less what i figured.

Well if Boyz are still as cheap as they are now, saving nearly half the wounds regardless of strength/AP is nothing to sneeze at. The amazing thing is having multiple 30 Ork blobs making each other essentially Fearless.

You mean that thing we did for three Editions? It was great in 4th, but it tanked quick after that, and we still have the same problems we had back then. On the plus side this edition at least makes our standard Anti Tank (bury it in Rokkits/Deffguns) more viable than it used to be.

[Renegade Paladin]

-Shown mission ends at 5, no random game length (please be standard)

Well, that does explain how they plan on shoehorning 1500 point games into 90 minutes. Just make the game have fewer turns. Presto!

All superheavies are Lords of War, so no shadowsword or so on his side.

At 29 models though?
A tooled up HQ, some SS terminators, and some super dreadnoughts is what I'd expect. 30k has some dreads who are "not quite superheavies, but close"

Eh. I can make Terminators roll 1s, and bring more anti-tank than I know what to do with even in 1500.

At any rate, I wasn't really looking for tips on tailoring to fight 30k Imperial Fists; the main purpose of the question was to ask if the game would even work, like do the rules function in broadly the same way?

I'm getting the impression that the 8th Ed. 'codices' (as opposed to 'indices', oh, this is gonna be fun) will primarily be fluff and model based, rather than rules.

So, everyone gets their rules all together in the indices, then over the next few months, codices are released which reprint the rules, and add all the fluff/pretty model pics/theme idea/whatever. That way, the rules get to remain internally balanced, and veteran gamers don't have to buy all the fluff/model stuff unless they want to.

Not sure how this stacks up to other people's information, as I say, it's just the impression I have.

From what they've said, the codices are going to have more rules content, primarily army-specific stratagems and force organization. I'd hazard to guess that's how they're going to introduce new units, too.

[Forum Explorer]

I don't really like the look of the basic mission. Also I'm sad it doesn't have a kill point version built into it.

[Renegade Paladin]

I don't really like the look of the basic mission. Also I'm sad it doesn't have a kill point version built into it.

If you can't devise a kill point mission without GW building it for you, I don't know what to say. It's the easiest kind of mission to write, and the hardest kind to balance (which is why I imagine they've never even tried to do the latter).

[Drasius]

I'm getting the impression that the 8th Ed. 'codices' (as opposed to 'indices', oh, this is gonna be fun) will primarily be fluff and model based, rather than rules.

So, everyone gets their rules all together in the indices, then over the next few months, codices are released which reprint the rules, and add all the fluff/pretty model pics/theme idea/whatever. That way, the rules get to remain internally balanced, and veteran gamers don't have to buy all the fluff/model stuff unless they want to.

Not sure how this stacks up to other people's information, as I say, it's just the impression I have.

Go have a look at the AoS battletomes (the 4 books for the 4 major factions) and whatever the hell they call their expansions for individual factions. I'd wager that's exactly what we're going to get for 40k with the battletome equivalent being the 5x Indecies at launch (with all the major and some minor factions) and the codecies being the individual faction supplements/expansions (where you'll not only see a fleshing out of the major factions but will also see some of the minor factions reintroduced).

[Rizhail]

Some folks over on the 40k reddit caught something neat: a lot of units have changed FoC slot types on the 40k store. For instance: in the nid army Carnifexes went from heavy support to elites, Deathleaper from HQ to elites, and Tervigons from HQ to heavy support. Looks like a lot of the non-super heavy Lords of War in other armies went back to being HQs as well.

An interesting one to me is that it looks like Kroot squads have now split: Shapers are HQs (fits with the character preview article having them as independent characters with buff auras), carnivores are still troops, hounds are fast attack, and krootox are back in heavy support. Assuming this is in prep for 8th and not one of the occasional GW site glitches, it looks like it might be possible to build a Kroot merc army for the first time in a few editions. Could be fun, depending on their stats and gear in the new edition.

I'm not familiar enough with all the different armies to figure out what all has changed and what it might mean for army composition (only knowing 4 of the 14 FoCs available at launch certainly doesn't help there), but it's possible there might be some other neat changes.

[Requizen]

Today's discussion points:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/...mepage-post-4/

Primaris Marines. Some profiles shown:

Spoiler: Primaris Captain in Gravis Armor

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Spoiler: Interceptors (Jump)

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Both look solid. Captain can be used as a buff bot as well as a decent melee beatstick. Interceptors are pretty solid harass/flanking units with their good guns (6 shots BS3+ S5 AP-1) and ability to Strike in with no scatter. New "Hammer of Wrath" deals MWs but only on a 6.

Primaris look a lot like Stormcast - very strong, but relatively limited in weapon/upgrade options, and low model count. Will be countered hardcore by things that can bust down high Tough multiwound units, but will feel really strong against other armies.


Other thing of note:

If you look on the webstore, FOC has changed for certain units. Carnifexes are Elites now, for instance, and Tervigons went to Heavy Support. Necrons shuffled a bit as well, though nothing major other than Tesseract Vault and Obelisks no longer being LoW and instead HQ/Heavy respectively. I don't think Marine armies changed that much. Check your own forces!

[Blackhawk748]

Wait, wait, wait, Power Swords do 2 Damage and are -3 AP? What in the **** is the reason to use a Power Fist/Klaw when the Sword has more reliable Damage and no penalty to hit? Good god.

[Requizen]

Wait, wait, wait, Power Swords do 2 Damage and are -3 AP? What in the **** is the reason to use a Power Fist/Klaw when the Sword has more reliable Damage and no penalty to hit? Good god.

The double strength. S4 is nice and all but S8 will wound more reliably against lots of stuff. And the off chance you roll a bunch of 3s for damage.

[Blackhawk748]

The double strength. S4 is nice and all but S8 will wound more reliably against lots of stuff. And the off chance you roll a bunch of 3s for damage.

Well Power Fists/Klaws better not cost more than other Power Weapons then, cuz that penalty and the unreliable damage kinda compensates for the double strength, especially considering how less important that is now.

And im now pissed about the Big Choppas cuz i thought them getting 2 Dam was Orks compensation for lousy AP. Whelp guess thats shot to hell. And the interceptors guns, good lord.

[LeSwordfish]

Man, Mortal Wounds are cropping up a lot. Why does this dude Goomba-Stomping someone hit with comparable strength to a reaper chainsword?

[JNAProductions]

Man, Mortal Wounds are cropping up a lot. Why does this dude Goomba-Stomping someone hit with comparable strength to a reaper chainsword?

I thought Reaper Chainswords were just 6 damage-not Mortal.

[Requizen]

Well Power Fists/Klaws better not cost more than other Power Weapons then, cuz that penalty and the unreliable damage kinda compensates for the double strength, especially considering how less important that is now.

And im now pissed about the Big Choppas cuz i thought them getting 2 Dam was Orks compensation for lousy AP. Whelp guess thats shot to hell. And the interceptors guns, good lord.

Well hold up there. Regular power weapons are only Damage 1, it's the Master Crafted that are Damage 2, so Big Choppas still have that advantage.

Man, Mortal Wounds are cropping up a lot. Why does this dude Goomba-Stomping someone hit with comparable strength to a reaper chainsword?

How a lot? It's been a spell, the short ranged gun on the Leviathan, and this charge ability? Which requires you to get the charge, be within 1" (which means it may only be one dude and not the whole unit), and then roll a 6? That's not really overbearing in my book.

[JNAProductions]

Yeah, double checked-the Reaper Chainsword does NOT seem to do Mortal Wounds.

In other words, Hammer of Wrath is capable of being deadlier than a former D-Weapon.

[LeSwordfish]

I guess my concern is that Age Of Sigmar deals out Mortal Wounds like candy to deal with how little variance it has in its ability to deal damage otherwise. They're a big deal - there are literally two "Mortal Wound" (no saves at all) effects in the entire game right now (Str-D 6, and that one str10 Eldar power). I was hoping GW would be more restrained with them - imagine a unit that had a Str10 Ap1 Ignores Cover No Invulns Hammer Of Wrath attack!

EDIT: Ah, only on a six! Even so...

[JNAProductions]

I guess my concern is that Age Of Sigmar deals out Mortal Wounds like candy to deal with how little variance it has in its ability to deal damage otherwise. They're a big deal - there are literally two "Mortal Wound" (no saves at all) effects in the entire game right now (Str-D 6, and that one str10 Eldar power). I was hoping GW would be more restrained with them - imagine a unit that had a Str10 Ap1 Ignores Cover No Invulns Hammer Of Wrath attack!

C'Tan Phase Sword, Shieldbreaker rounds, Stomps (on a 6).

So 5.

[Blackhawk748]

Well hold up there. Regular power weapons are only Damage 1, it's the Master Crafted that are Damage 2, so Big Choppas still have that advantage.

Ok, that makes me way less pissed.

[Requizen]

Yeah, double checked-the Reaper Chainsword does NOT seem to do Mortal Wounds.

In other words, Hammer of Wrath is capable of being deadlier than a former D-Weapon.

"Deadlier"?

I'm gonna go ahead and assume that the Reaper Chainsword is AP-4 (maaaybe AP-3), meaning yes Terminators will get a save against that and not Hammer of Wrath... but also the Chainsword deals 6 wounds and the impact hit deals 1, and Terminators have 2 wounds now. So... the HoW hit is deadlier against 2+, single wound models, if any exist.

1 MW maybe on a 6 if you get the charge (does nothing when you are charged), but I would not call it "deadlier" by any stretch of the imagination in a real game.

[JNAProductions]

Ignores Invulns, is the key.

So against, say, Pink Horrors? It's a 16% chance of killing one as opposed to a (2/3*5/6*1/2) 27% chance (if the Knight is at full health).

Okay, yeah, the Reaper Chainsword is about twice as effective as Hammer of Wrath against Pink Horrors.

It's probably mechanically sound-it just doesn't FEEL right.

[Requizen]

More dripfed leaks: Detachments

Spoiler: Detachment pics

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So you can make a list of max Elites, FA, or HS if you want, but you lose out on command points. Interesting.

Couple different ways to get superheavies.

Auxiliary Support Detachment wording makes it sound like you can't stack the same detachment for multiple Command Point bonuses. So no taking multiple Battalions (new CAD) for a bunch of +3 bonuses.

List building sounds super interesting!

[Rizhail]

That means we now know 12 of the 14 detachments that will be available; the nine Requizen linked and the three escalating forms of CAD that were initially shown. I'm happy to see that my wish for an assault-heavy Ynnari bike army should work out. No more required troops means no more windriders to fill in required slots, and more space for the reavers, skyweavers, and shining spears I wanted to play with.

EDIT: Shooting rules have also leaked.

A few tidbits:

-A model with more than one ranged weapon can fire ALL OF THEM (with one exception, see below).
-Assault weapons can be fired even if you advance, but take a -1 to hit in that case.
-Grenades are still 1 shot per shooting phase per unit
-Pistols are the only weapon you can fire if you're engaged in combat, but when firing a pistol you have to choose between using pistol(s) or ALL of your other ranged weapons. So no firing a bolter and bolt pistol in the same turn. On the other hand, since it calls it out, you can fire every pistol a model has at the same time, so gunslinger is once again built into any model with more than one pistol.

[Forum Explorer]

So you can run and shoot assault weapons? Cool, and it makes Battle Focus less OP since it'll just be ignoring the -1 to hit presumably.

I wonder if the Avatar is going to move to HQ again? The Lord of War slot seems to be pretty hard to get (needing either 2 more Lord of Wars or 3 HQ choices.)

[Requizen]

That means we now know 12 of the 14 detachments that will be available; the nine Requizen linked and the three escalating forms of CAD that were initially shown. I'm happy to see that my wish for an assault-heavy Ynnari bike army should work out. No more required troops means no more windriders to fill in required slots, and more space for the reavers, skyweavers, and shining spears I wanted to play with.

EDIT: Shooting rules have also leaked.

A few tidbits:

-A model with more than one ranged weapon can fire ALL OF THEM (with one exception, see below).
-Assault weapons can be fired even if you advance, but take a -1 to hit in that case.
-Grenades are still 1 shot per shooting phase per unit
-Pistols are the only weapon you can fire if you're engaged in combat, but when firing a pistol you have to choose between using pistol(s) or ALL of your other ranged weapons. So no firing a bolter and bolt pistol in the same turn. On the other hand, since it calls it out, you can fire every pistol a model has at the same time, so gunslinger is once again built into any model with more than one pistol.

Awesome. Assault weapons will make armies with them really fast, which is cool.

Also, no rules on any of them preventing charge after shooting. Nice. I like the speed that games seem to be played at now.

So you can run and shoot assault weapons? Cool, and it makes Battle Focus less OP since it'll just be ignoring the -1 to hit presumably.

I wonder if the Avatar is going to move to HQ again? The Lord of War slot seems to be pretty hard to get (needing either 2 more Lord of Wars or 3 HQ choices.)

Avatar is currently listed as HQ on the webstore. WK still LoW. Wish granted?

[Renegade Paladin]

I just went to the webstore to check Guard and about had a heart attack. Nothing seems to have changed force organization-wise, but everything was double the price.

Then I realized it had reset itself to deliver to Australia for some reason. Guys, I am so, so sorry you have to deal with that.

Checking exchange rates, $1.00 USD = $1.34 AUD, but a Leman Russ costs $49.50 in the United States and $98 in Australia. How does anyone down there actually play this game?

Edit: Militarum Tempestus lists both their command squads and regular guys as Elites, with Commissars as HQ (and no longer have the Valkyrie on their product page). Not sure if the former is a change; I know the latter is.