Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXX: Imperium After Dark

[Selpharia]

So. Is there a realistic option for Daemons that aren't Smite-spamming mono-Tzeentch lists? Slaanesh seems to still suffer from troops made of tissue paper.

[Gauntlet]

So. Is there a realistic option for Daemons that aren't Smite-spamming mono-Tzeentch lists? Slaanesh seems to still suffer from troops made of tissue paper.

Plaguebearers are hugely durable and hold objectives well - AP and damage values mean nothing to them, and they ignore more than 50% of any wounds they suffer via 5++ and Disgustingly Resilient.

Daemon Princes are really good - they're fast and hit hard, and don't cost that many points (especially if you just give them claws). Astartes Daemon Princes can still have the Daemon and Nurgle keywords, but also give the relevant daemons reroll 1s to hit (which is very handy) and have the Heretic Astartes keyword which means they can use Warptime on themselves to first-turn charge anything that worries you.

Nurglings are pretty bad at everything, but they deploy close enough to charge, so if they have something you don't want shooting at your Seekers (say, a devastator squad or something) just give it some Nurglings - they'll take a couple turns to die and it stops them shooting the valuable stuff.

I'd say that Plaguebearers, Seekers, Princes, and some of whatever spice you want seems like a good core to a list. Seekers are super fast and put out a ton of attacks - good for chopping up hordes which are probably gonna be around quite a lot. Screamers are solid too. I haven't looked at most of the Khorne stuff but a bloodthirster is a pretty good source of high damage hits to take out anything particularly durable.

[Drewzer987]

So. Is there a realistic option for Daemons that aren't Smite-spamming mono-Tzeentch lists? Slaanesh seems to still suffer from troops made of tissue paper.

Khorne seems to be pretty good demonwise.

Heralds of Khorne and just plain scary, as they add +1 strength to any Khorne Demon unit within 6", meaing strength 6 demons on the charge (+1 from Unstoppable Ferocity)

Flesh Hounds are good as they provide you with some denying for psychic powers

Bloodletters are great due to the fact their swords have AP -3, and can cause damage 2 instead of 1 on a 6+

Skull Cannons are quite good as one of the few ranged weapons available to Khorne Demons, but can still put up a decent fight in melee

Personally I think Khorne Demons are a pretty viable option, due to their increased strength and attacks on the charge via Unstoppable Fury and their invulnerable saves to save them from shooting. If they can get into combat, which they are much more likely to achieve now, they're going to be a force to be reckoned with.

[Turalisj]

Since snipers are so good this edition, is a vindicaire worth taking on its own?

[Cheesegear]

Since snipers are so good this edition, is a vindicaire worth taking on its own?

Yes. As long as you can put a cheap(ish) squad in front of him, so he can't be targeted by opposing Snipers.

[Voidhawk]

Since snipers are so good this edition, is a vindicaire worth taking on its own?

Hits on a 2+, wounds on a 2+, AP -3, ignoring both cover and invul saves: all good.

But doing only D3 damage isn't great when characters can have up to 9 wounds, and he no longer does anything to stop command squads LoSir!-ing the damage onto a mook. Plus he lost the ability to pick-out special weapons or sergeants.

So he's good at picking off weaker characters without retinues (eg, non-deathstar builds), but against tougher ones or ones who brought friends he shouldn't be your only plan for character-killing.

[Cheesegear]

PSA; The new Tactical Objectives cards fit in Magic: The Gathering-sized card slips. I don't know if this helps anyone.

[Turalisj]

I'll have to order a vindicare from my FLGS, no way I'm paying $10 for shipping on a $32 model

[Requizen]

Bleuh, I dunno what army I want to start. I know I want to do something (haven't seriously started a new army in the 4 years I've been playing), but everything looks fun right now. A good problem to have, I guess.

[Gauntlet]

I think I'm going to build Ynnari for my main 8th edition army. They seem like an army that's both powerful and fluffy - a lot of Imperium stuff is awesome, but it's difficult to make an army that's both good and isn't a mashup of different factions. Also nobody in my local playgroup plays Eldar currently.

[Requizen]

Is it bad to say that it looks like FW saved Necrons? Affordable, reliable, durable ranged shooting. Two solid Monsters. A massive unmovable "screw you" gun.

A couple duds but you can't have everything. The characters are cool but sorta limited, and the Acanthrites are a smidge too expensive. Bomber and Ark are neat but not insanely good.

Gonna be buying some resin.

[JNAProductions]

Where can I find the FW info?

[Requizen]

Where can I find the FW info?

They're posting pages up on /tg/ right now. Not linking for obvious reasons.

[Blackhawk748]

Is it bad to say that it looks like FW saved Necrons? Affordable, reliable, durable ranged shooting. Two solid Monsters. A massive unmovable "screw you" gun.

A couple duds but you can't have everything. The characters are cool but sorta limited, and the Acanthrites are a smidge too expensive. Bomber and Ark are neat but not insanely good.

Gonna be buying some resin.

So the Tomb Stalker is great now? Awesome, always loved the super centipede.

[Requizen]

So the Tomb Stalker is great now? Awesome, always loved the super centipede.

Maybe not super great, but it's quite good. A fighty monster that can pop up with a decent gun and go for the charge and has DtW, then they have to deal with it even if it misses the charge because it's fast and durable and fighty. I'll be fielding mine as soon as I build it.

The Sentinel is quite good. Good gun that can pop up in range and is only slightly less fighty than his brother. I might buy one as well.


Here's most of them in an Imgur list.

http://imgur.com/a/JGxLE

[Blackhawk748]

If i remember right the Tomb Sentinel was bad last ed (or the last 2 eds) and the Tomb Stalker was always kind of solid. Glad to see both are good picks now.

[Rizhail]

There's a lot of signs (at least in the Eldar section) that the FW folks were rushed/careless (moreso than normal, anyway). Points values that are out of whack, rules that are obvious copy+paste errors, bad editing on a few rules (like Corsair morale). And I mean 'more than I usually expect' on those.

But, there are a few neat things that seem reasonably well written or balanced. For instance, the Nightwing actually acts like an interceptor; it can swap between retracted wings (5++ save and +24" advance movement, making it very speedy) and extended wings (pick a target in LoS before you move. You may pivot the Nightwing to face that model rather than the normal up-to-90-degree-turn before moving, and you gain +1 to hit that target in the following shooting phase. However, you lose Hard to Hit while using extended wings). Combined with the same Wings of Khaine rule as Crimson Hunters (the old Vector Dancer rule) and a decent armament, and it's not a bad little fighter. Might be a little undercosted at ~140 pts, but it's not too terribly off compared to a stock crimson hunter or dual lance razorwing. The Skathach Wraithknight is more expensive than a fully loaded (suncannon + 2 starcannons) standard knight, as befits the knight stats with a pair of d6 shot, 24" meltas plus deep strike and skyleap. It's nasty and can leap in and out of reserves into melta range, but you pay a premium for that ability.

In both good and bad news: Corsairs aren't their own army anymore; all the Corsair units are either taken as their normal Craftworld counterparts (Hornets, Wasps, etc), condensed into 3 infantry units (corsair bikes, corsairs with jetpacks, corsairs on foot), or just plain gone (ghostwalkers, malevolents, all 3 HQs). Bad news if you wanted a Craftworld free army, good news if you want Ynnari pirates as all the units in the Eldar section fit the rules to become Ynnari. On the bad news front again, there are some writing issues with the rules and points costs for the elf pirates.

1) The morale rule for Corsairs says you roll 2 dice when rolling morale and discard the lower one, but lose +1 models if you fail morale; it's obvious from context it's supposed to be roll 2 and drop the highest. As written, it just plain makes morale checks really bad for Corsairs and doesn't make much sense.
2) Corsair jetbike sergeants "may replace its lasblaster with one of the following". Jetbike corsairs don't get lasblasters (looks like a copy paste error from the on-foot squads, who DO get lasblasters). Speaking of lasblasters...
3) The separating-weapons-costs-from-units-costs thing shot FW in the foot, because those points values were set based purely on the units in GW codexes. That's fine when the 7 pt cost for lasblasters applies to Autarchs and Swooping Hawks, the former having the pay for the weapon and the latter costed based on the lasblaster being their only gun. However, FW ended up using the exact same weapons points costs as the GW xenos index. The problem? Corsairs come equipped with a brace of pistols, lasblaster, and grenades stock. They can swap the las for a shuri-cat, a shardcarbine (!), or a +1 attack CCW. Shuri-cats are 0 pts (standard infantry weapon), shardcarbines are 0 pts (the only unit who takes them in the D.Eldar army are Scourges, so the cost is built into that unit instead), and the melee weapons are 0 pts. Lasblasters are still 7 pts. The brace of pistols is 2 pts, despite every model that can take them having them by default and with no way to replace them.

That means a stock Corsair Reaver is EIGHTEEN POINTS! It's an Eldar Guardian/Kabalite Warrior statline with +1" movement and better weapon selection for more than twice the cost. And if you swap out the lasblaster for the outright superior shardcarbine? The cost drops to 11 pts per model.

And I've only gone over the Eldar stuff since I have the previous IA Eldar book and I was interested in working in some of the FW units if they were decent, so I can't speak for the other factions. I know someone was saying one of the nid units (malaceptor, maybe?) is ridiculously priced. Something like 90 points when it's really obvious it's supposed to be 190 based on its listed power level.

I'm thinking I'm gonna pass on most of the FW stuff unless/until they post an errata (fat chance, I know). Might try out the Skathach knight, Nightwings, or maybe Wasps (though I'm not sure spending ~30 points to give a War Walker deep strike and Fly is necessarily worth the cost).

[Renegade Paladin]

Turns out my first games of 8th are going to be Saturday night after hours rather than the Sunday open play, though for the beer and pretzels thing they're doing the shop has set 50 power in a single Patrol detachment (don't ask me why). Turns out that's a real bear to do in Guard without taking ALL THE TANKS since the infantry is so cheap and there are so few slots.

Spoiler

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Patrol Detachment - 50 Power

Company Commander - 3
-Power fist

Primaris Psyker - 2
-Psychic Barrier, Terrifying Visions

Command Squad - 3
-Medi-pack, vox-caster
-Heavy flamer, plasma gun

Commissar - 2
-Power fist

Infantry Squad - 3
-Flamer, lascannon
-Vox-caster
-Power sword

Infantry Squad - 3
-Flamer, lascannon
-Vox-caster

Infantry Squad - 3
-Flamer, autocannon
-Vox-caster

Hellhound Squadron - 15
-Hellhound - 5
--Heavy flamer
-Hellhound - 5
--Heavy flamer
-Hellhound - 5
--Heavy flamer

Leman Russ Battle Tank - 11
-Heavy bolter sponsons

Wyvern - 5

[Tvtyrant]

So, Malanthropes. 90 points, or 10 power (200 points). Your choice (apparently).

[boomwolf]

Anyone has the FW tau datasheets by chance and can send them to me? all I can find so far are necrons...

[Tome]

In terms of forge world tau, the units that jumped out at me were the sensor relays, the tetras and the technical drones. The first two for markerlights, the third for healing battlesuit units. Neither seemed especially costly, though I think they may be a little less cost efficient than pathfinders or marker drones.

The big suits look like they have some veeeeerrrrrrry nice guns, but I'm not sure how they compare to their own price.

[Mystic Muse]

Anybody have advice on cases? Getting annoyed storing my monstrous creatures in shoeboxes.

[Eldan]

So, Malanthropes. 90 points, or 10 power (200 points). Your choice (apparently).

Oh, wow. 90 points. Yup, I'm getting me one.

Anybody have advice on cases? Getting annoyed storing my monstrous creatures in shoeboxes.

Don't bother with name brand cases, really. Large Tupperwares or similar hard plastic boxes plus some kitchen tissues do the trick just as well for much cheaper.

[Turalisj]

In terms of forge world tau, the units that jumped out at me were the sensor relays, the tetras and the technical drones. The first two for markerlights, the third for healing battlesuit units. Neither seemed especially costly, though I think they may be a little less cost efficient than pathfinders or marker drones.

The big suits look like they have some veeeeerrrrrrry nice guns, but I'm not sure how they compare to their own price.

How is the Barracuda.

[Requizen]

How is the Barracuda.

I've got the book too. Don't know much about Tau but for ~200 points it's pretty shooty but nothing special? Hits on 3+ which is nice for Tau and has all the fancy Flyer rules. W14 T7 3+/5++. Dunno what it was before.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

3) The separating-weapons-costs-from-units-costs thing shot FW in the foot, because those points values were set based purely on the units in GW codexes. That's fine when the 7 pt cost for lasblasters applies to Autarchs and Swooping Hawks, the former having the pay for the weapon and the latter costed based on the lasblaster being their only gun. However, FW ended up using the exact same weapons points costs as the GW xenos index. The problem? Corsairs come equipped with a brace of pistols, lasblaster, and grenades stock. They can swap the las for a shuri-cat, a shardcarbine (!), or a +1 attack CCW. Shuri-cats are 0 pts (standard infantry weapon), shardcarbines are 0 pts (the only unit who takes them in the D.Eldar army are Scourges, so the cost is built into that unit instead), and the melee weapons are 0 pts. Lasblasters are still 7 pts. The brace of pistols is 2 pts, despite every model that can take them having them by default and with no way to replace them.

That means a stock Corsair Reaver is EIGHTEEN POINTS! It's an Eldar Guardian/Kabalite Warrior statline with +1" movement and better weapon selection for more than twice the cost. And if you swap out the lasblaster for the outright superior shardcarbine? The cost drops to 11 pts per model.

... Why didn't they simply rename the weapon "Corsair lasblaster," rewrite the rules, and recost it appropriately? It seems like a really easy fix to a really easy problem...

[Gauntlet]

R'varna and Y'vahra both look solid. Better than Riptide anyway.

R'varna fires 4d3 shots, strength 6 ap-2 dmg3, and if you novacharge you can reroll the shot-number d3s. Pretty much Riptide durability. Comes with a multi-tracker, can take an ATS and/or Stimulant Injector. 429 points.

Y'vahra has already been spoiled. 395 points. Pays Riptide costs for support systems (so you're taking an ATS and that's it, probably).

A Barracuda with two Missile Pods, an Ion Cannon and two Cyclic Ion Blasters has a reasonable amountof str7-8 mid-ap shooting for 300 points. Then again, for the same points cost you could get two Commanders with three CIBs and an ATS each, so it's probably a bit too expensive to be amazing.

Tiger Shark AX-10s literally can't shoot their Railgun (it's Macro so you can't move and shoot it unless you're Titanic, which the Tiger Shark isn't, and Tiger Sharks can't hover and have a minimum move distance).


Interestingly Corsairs (since they're neither Drukhari nor Asuryani) can't get in any transport in the game. No Corsair Venoms any more.

[hamishspence]

Looks like there will be a lot of FAQ-ing.

[druid91]

For cases I use something like This

Spoiler: Picture

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[Adrastos42]

Looks like there will be a lot of FAQ-ing.

Definitely. Forge World's facebook page is full of people pointing out all kinds of errors in the indexes. Granted, a lot of them are repeats (I think on release day every other post was about contemptor dreadnoughts not having a cyclone missile option) but there's still a lot. To their credit, the FW facebook team seems to be actively reading and commenting and promising to pass things on to the rules team for FAQs, so hopefully this will be improved soon.

In the meantime, thanks to a missing "this model" taking a relic javelin attack speeder means all your opponents models are at -1 to hit every time they target anything more than 8" away:P