Castlevania Netflix

[Eldan]

Know what bothered me? Shouldn't Wallachia be Orthodox? I'm reasonably sure the orthodox church doesn't have archbishops, does it? Maybe I'm mistaken, somewhere, but at least modern Romania is overwhelmingly orthodox, not catholic.

[Kyberwulf]

Lol... Dr Samurai, when i saw you say giggling ghast.. I thought you were making a catchphrase. Like great scott.. or sweet Christmas.

But.. I think he didnt kill the people outright.. because it wouldn't be any fun. I get the sense he could have burned down the city with no effort. Not only that.. he is very old. I think a year is something like a minute for him. Maybe 10? Not so long to wait for vengance...also.. he knew they wouldn't leave. I figure he did it to make them squirm for a little bit. I am sure he lived Lisa, but I don't think it was the same way we understand it. It wasn't like a need that needed instant retribution. She was a thing to him.

He let Lisa live, because she is smart beautiful and isn't stuck to the same traditions. Something of an oddity.

I like the show though. The animation... was different. Reminded me of samurai shamploo or fooly fooly.

[Murmaider]

Know what bothered me? Shouldn't Wallachia be Orthodox? I'm reasonably sure the orthodox church doesn't have archbishops, does it? Maybe I'm mistaken, somewhere, but at least modern Romania is overwhelmingly orthodox, not catholic.

Sure should. But if that's what bothers you most about the depiction of the church in the show, you can count yourself lucky.

[Eldan]

Well, one of a lot of things, but the first thing that jumped out when I saw the outfits.

[Dr.Samurai]

Lol... Dr Samurai, when i saw you say giggling ghast.. I thought you were making a catchphrase. Like great scott.. or sweet Christmas.

Lmao! That's funny!

But.. I think he didnt kill the people outright.. because it wouldn't be any fun. I get the sense he could have burned down the city with no effort.

Maybe, but he's not directly involved now either. Obviously his ideas about what's fun might be different from mine, but it seems like he's just in his castle while the army rampages.

But still, I just feel that his rage would have overcome any reason not to kill them. He wasn't as mad as some humans get when they kill people out of passion. We were told that basically there was no reason for him to let humans live or to tolerate them in Wallachia until Lisa came along. Then they murdered her. I mean... seems like he wanted to kill them before (and he didn't for whatever reason) and then they gave him a perfect reason to kill them that night (and again, he didn't for whatever reason).

Not only that.. he is very old. I think a year is something like a minute for him. Maybe 10? Not so long to wait for vengance...

Hmm... that's a fair point, I hadn't considered that. It could be, but I don't think it is, because he says "one year" no less than a hundred times lol. Even alone in his castle, he repeats it a couple of times "one year, one year before I can summon my army". I get the impression that time passes for him as it does for anyone else. But it could be he doesn't notice it too much.

I like the show though. The animation... was different. Reminded me of samurai shamploo or fooly fooly.

I'm looking forward to season 2. This one started off a little rocky for me, but it wasn't awful.

[JeenLeen]

Short form of the below (limited to relevance to the show itself): I reckon they went with what would be familiar to viewers instead of historical accuracy.

Know what bothered me? Shouldn't Wallachia be Orthodox? I'm reasonably sure the orthodox church doesn't have archbishops, does it? Maybe I'm mistaken, somewhere, but at least modern Romania is overwhelmingly orthodox, not catholic.

I did a quick Wikipedia search, and it seems to confirm you and the other poster that historically (as well as today) it has been Orthodox.
How the terms bishop, archbishop, and metropolitan/patriarch are used differs between different Orthodox jurisdictions--like the Orthodox church in Greece might use some terms slightly differently than the Orthodox Church of America--but generally there are archbishops but 'archbishop' tends to mean 'a bishop who is well-respected' instead of 'a bishop with other bishops under them'. A bishop is generally honored and retitled an archbishop after so many years of service. (At least, that's how it is where I live. My bishop was a bishop until a few years ago, then he was made an archbishop by the synod of bishops. Being an archbishop didn't change his duties or authority.) And technically (though not always in practice and certainly not in perception) the metropolitan/patriarch is the 'first among equals' of the bishops in a land, not really ruling the other bishops.

What probably would have been more accurate would to say there was a Metropolitan of Wallachia (the old dude called the archbishop) who is also the bishop of the capitol city, and under him several bishops/archbishops of the other different cities/regions--but that language would have been rather foreign to most viewers.

Well, one of a lot of things, but the first thing that jumped out when I saw the outfits.

The clergy definitely looked more Catholic than Orthodox -- generally no beards, more Western style garments -- but, if you wanted to be generous about historical accuracy, that potentially could have been how they dressed due to influence from neighboring countries. Not really sure one way or the other. I reckon the show designers went with a more Catholic look since that's what's commonly known to most viewers as 'the medieval church'. If they looked authentically Orthodox, it would likely be a distraction and confusion to most viewers.

[BWR]

Castlevania is a Japanese game, and all Christians are Catholics if you go by Japanese pop culture. This is probably just being true to the source material.

[Giggling Ghast]

On a future note, there are apparently eight more episodes of Castlevania coming.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-en...-a7832916.html

Know what bothered me? Shouldn't Wallachia be Orthodox?.

Probably. However, upon checking the Wikipedia page for Targoviste, I'll note that Saxon colonists apparently did place a Catholic Church there during the 1300s.

No mention of a demon army, though. Or the Belmonts. You'd think Castlevania were a work of fiction and not a historical documentary.

[scalyfreak]

Probably. However, upon checking the Wikipedia page for Targoviste, I'll note that Saxon colonists apparently did place a Catholic Church there during the 1300s.

No mention of a demon army, though. Or the Belmonts. You'd think Castlevania were a work of fiction and not a historical documentary.

Yet somehow it managed a fairly accurate portray of the Catholic Church in medieval Europe, at least if some sources are to be believed. The Catholic Church of that time was a political institution as much or more than religious. Advancement required political savvy and ruthlessness more than faith, and it makes sense that the higher up in the power structure, there is more cynicism and corruption than there is faith.

Case in point:

Spoiler: Courtesy spoiler tag, just in case it's still needed

Show

The demon creature that "kisses" the bishop tells him that the church they're in is an empty box, that God is not there with them and that God in fact has abandoned the bishop due to his actions. Later on, Belmont desperately looks for an ordained priest to create holy water when they are about to fight Dracula's horde, and comments wryly on the fact that actually worked. He either didn't expect the priest to have been ordained in a church that actually was sacred ground and not just an empty box, or Belmont has come to expect that anyone wearing a priest's garb is a pretender who is lacking the genuine faith required to bless something and have that blessing have an effect.

It's almost as they're setting the stage for a less than subtle message that organised religion is corrupt, but personal faith is pure and good.

[Giggling Ghast]

I don't know that this is worth much, but I did see some people arguing on Twitter whether Castlevania was anti-Christian. I made the point that the series differentiates between faith and the fanaticism displayed by the Bishop, and that his actions had caused God to turn away from Wallachia. The director of the series did "like" my tweet; while a like is certainly no indication of intent, maybe that's what they were going for.

I also saw Sypha's voice actress, Alejandra Reynoso, comment that she didn't feel the series was anti-Christian and she herself is Catholic. (Amusingly, before this, she was best known for her work on the Winx Club. Oh, how the virtuous have fallen. )

Honestly, I think some of the Bishop's "priests" were just thugs he dressed up in robes. That bald priest in particular was a little too adept with a thief's blade, if you get my drift. Hence the reason Trevor implicitly says he needs an ordained priest in the last episode.

[scalyfreak]

I don't know that this is worth much, but I did see some people arguing on Twitter whether Castlevania was anti-Christian. I made the point that the series differentiates between faith and the fanaticism displayed by the Bishop, and that his actions had caused God to turn away from Wallachia. The director of the series did like my tweet, so maybe that's what they were going for.

That would make perfect sense and be completely unsurprising.

Has there ever been a single JRPG where the large world-wide church wasn't eventually revealed to be severely corrupt and secretly evil?

Honestly, I think some of the Bishop's "priests" were just thugs he dressed up in robes. That bald priest in particular was a little too adept with a thief's blade, if you get my drift.

If I type "well, DUH" does the tone of voice come across properly?

See my previous comments about corruption. Th Bishop needs muscle to enforce the violence he believes is necessary. So he reasons that the end justifies the means and hires all the local thugs, gives them a two-day crash course in religion and "ordains" them, and sets them loose in the streets. With their weapons of choice.

[Dragonus45]

That would make perfect sense and be completely unsurprising.

Has there ever been a single JRPG where the large world-wide church wasn't eventually revealed to be severely corrupt and secretly evil?

Not a JRPG but The Church in Castelvania stuff has generally been positively portrayed its one of the reasons it felt so jarring in this. Syph was actually a church agent in Curse of Dracula for example. Even in Order of Ecclesia where the specific order in question has gone mad trying to figure out how to permanently defeat Dracula it was a member of the order itself who defeated them, various supporting cast have been involved in the church as well.


On a side note, is anyone else really hoping they didn't forget Grant DeNasty like everything else does.

[Reddish Mage]

I find expectations of a realistic portrayal of the church in Romania for the time period, in a show about a video game that features steam-punk in Easter Europe during the medieval period and makes up a magic-using non-Christian minority...very incongruent.

Japanese anime really like to make the church evil, except when its really cool, or just a place, but rarely do they portray any Western religion accurately when it comes down to it.

I notice Judaism is usually just raided for out-of-context bits of Aramaic and Kabbalistic diagrams, and how the plot to Evangelion is supposedly what's written in the prophecies of the dead sea scrolls.

[Chromascope3D]

Not a JRPG but The Church in Castelvania stuff has generally been positively portrayed its one of the reasons it felt so jarring in this. Syph was actually a church agent in Curse of Dracula for example. Even in Order of Ecclesia where the specific order in question has gone mad trying to figure out how to permanently defeat Dracula it was a member of the order itself who defeated them, various supporting cast have been involved in the church as well.


On a side note, is anyone else really hoping they didn't forget Grant DeNasty like everything else does.

Looking up that character on the wiki tells me that in Castlevania III, the church is explicitly referenced to be Eastern Orthodoxy. So, if that is to be believed, then the 90s Japanese game devs got it right while the American cartoon writers did not. :P

I'm wondering if great swaths of this show weren't actually more inspired by Bloodborne, at least thematically.

[Eldan]

I find expectations of a realistic portrayal of the church in Romania for the time period, in a show about a video game that features steam-punk in Easter Europe during the medieval period and makes up a magic-using non-Christian minority...very incongruent.

Japanese anime really like to make the church evil, except when its really cool, or just a place, but rarely do they portray any Western religion accurately when it comes down to it.

I notice Judaism is usually just raided for out-of-context bits of Aramaic and Kabbalistic diagrams, and how the plot to Evangelion is supposedly what's written in the prophecies of the dead sea scrolls.

I wouldn't have any idea what a realistic portrayal of Romanian Renaissance clerics would look like, to be honest. It's just something that stood out to me.

[BWR]

e the American cartoon writers did not. :P

English, not American.

[Chromascope3D]

English, not American.

It was written by Warren Ellis but it was produced by American studios (except for the Korean animation, but all cartoons that we consider American are animated in Korea so that doesn't really count ).

[Velaryon]

Finally got the chance to watch it the other day. It was a bit of a rocky start, but pretty good after the first episode. It seems to be mostly Castlevania III, with some of Alucard's backstory from Symphony of the Night thrown in. For the most part, they managed to pull off a remarkable balance of faithfulness to the source material, enough historical accuracy to not feel too out of place, and still telling a coherent and mostly enjoyable story. Given that the story of the Castlevania series has been pretty shaky at best IMO, I'm actually quite impressed what they managed to do with it.

There was definitely some awkwardness. In the moment, before we find out Dracula needs a whole year to summon his army from Hell, it does feel pretty odd that he gives the people such a long reprieve. Especially after he told the kindly old lady who filled him in on his wife's execution to clear out tonight. I certainly understand keeping the bishop around til the 4th episode, but I feel like Dracula should have done something at least to vent his rage in the moment. Killed the dudes who actually set the fire at least, or something.

Trevor's transition from jaded, reluctant, and unwilling hero to full-blown general seemed a bit abrupt as well. I totally bought into his trying to save the Speakers since he empathized with their being persecuted wrongly, but when he made the leap from there to organizing the villagers it seemed a bit sudden to me. I still liked it, but it was a little weird.

As for the church's portrayal in this series, I don't recall anything like that from the games, but I think it makes sense to include anyway. The Catholic church was pretty nasty back then (I don't know whether the Eastern Orthodox was the same way or not), so if they didn't acknowledge that then the portrayal of the time period would feel pretty false. Also, I do recall Alucard's mother being burned at the stake during a flashback in Symphony of the Night, so there's that.

[Giggling Ghast]

From Dracula's perspective, the entire human race is equally guilty. "There are no innocents, not anymore." He doesn't exact vengeance st that moment because who actually did the deed is irrelevant; everyone in Wallachia is complicit in his wife's murder.

[Dr.Samurai]

There was definitely some awkwardness. In the moment, before we find out Dracula needs a whole year to summon his army from Hell, it does feel pretty odd that he gives the people such a long reprieve. Especially after he told the kindly old lady who filled him in on his wife's execution to clear out tonight. I certainly understand keeping the bishop around til the 4th episode, but I feel like Dracula should have done something at least to vent his rage in the moment. Killed the dudes who actually set the fire at least, or something.

Agreed! The amount of restraint is pretty strange.

From Dracula's perspective, the entire human race is equally guilty. "There are no innocents, not anymore." He doesn't exact vengeance st that moment because who actually did the deed is irrelevant; everyone in Wallachia is complicit in his wife's murder.

I'm okay to agree to disagree, but since you went out of your way to say that my opinion on this scene is factually wrong, I feel like I have to respond. This justification doesn't make sense. Or rather, it's just weird.

Firstly, it is true that there is a few moments between Dracula telling everyone they have a year to leave, before he returns to kill everyone. In those moments, you are absolutely scratching your head as a viewer wondering why he wouldn't just kill them then. And in the next scene, when he says it will take one year to summon his army, you understand why he will return in one year, but you still don't understand why he didn't kill the people at the burning. The one doesn't serve to explain the other.

Likewise, if you say "well, he considers everyone complicit" it doesn't explain why he didn't kill everyone at the burning, only why he is killing more people than those at the burning. There is absolutely nothing portrayed in the story that would have prevented Dracula from killing those people that night.

Secondly, why everyone in Wallachia? Why not all of Eastern Europe? Or the Known World? Or Earth? I posit it is because he considers himself the ruler of Wallachia and he is reclaiming it, as opposed to he is holding everyone in Wallachia responsible for Lisa's murder.

Also, Alucard. When did Alucard find out that his mother was burned alive for no reason? I'm guessing it wasn't while she was being burned alive, otherwise he would have stopped it. It must have been after. But Dracula found out moments after it happened. So I'm guessing he was the one who told Alucard. Alucard also seems strangely calm even though his mother was just burned alive. "I grieve with you father..." Really?? This is you grieving? Aren't you upset as well?

Sorry, but the depictions of Dracula's and Alucard's reactions to the horrific murder of their wife and mother, respectively, is weird.

[Legato Endless]

Likewise, if you say "well, he considers everyone complicit" it doesn't explain why he didn't kill everyone at the burning, only why he is killing more people than those at the burning. There is absolutely nothing portrayed in the story that would have prevented Dracula from killing those people that night..

He blew all of his mana on appearing as a scary fireball and had to retreat and rest up.

Also, Alucard. When did Alucard find out that his mother was burned alive for no reason? I'm guessing it wasn't while she was being burned alive, otherwise he would have stopped it. It must have been after. But Dracula found out moments after it happened. So I'm guessing he was the one who told Alucard. Alucard also seems strangely calm even though his mother was just burned alive. "I grieve with you father..." Really?? This is you grieving? Aren't you upset as well?

This one is oa victim of the anime's brevity in only giving him two scenes. Alucard is an infamously taciturn stoic. He's less outwardly emotional than almost everyone else in the series. If you know that going in his conversation with his nemesis dad makes more sense.

[Giggling Ghast]

Likewise, if you say "well, he considers everyone complicit" it doesn't explain why he didn't kill everyone at the burning, only why he is killing more people than those at the burning. There is absolutely nothing portrayed in the story that would have prevented Dracula from killing those people that night.

Because they were to spread the word of Dracula's vengeance in one year's time. Giving the people of Wallachia one year is absolutely pointless if nobody knows they have one year. Corpses can't spread news.

Well, unless you animate the corpses and have them spread news, but in my experience, walking corpses make poor town criers. Unless the news is "BRAIIIIIIINS.""

Secondly, why everyone in Wallachia? Why not all of Eastern Europe? Or the Known World? Or Earth? I posit it is because he considers himself the ruler of Wallachia and he is reclaiming it, as opposed to he is holding everyone in Wallachia responsible for Lisa's murder.

Alucard says they may be saving the entire world from Dracula. That suggests his vengeance won't be satisfied with just eradicating one country.

Also, Alucard. When did Alucard find out that his mother was burned alive for no reason?

1) Dracula returns home.
2) Dracula teleports to his castle.
3) Dracula uses his castle's magic devices to appear before the crowd at the burning.

Alucard learns what happened either between Step 2 or during Step 3.

As for Alucard's rather cold demeanour, I suspect that's just Alucard being Alucard, as Legato said.

[Fri]

IIRC, especially later on, castlevania's event seems to always have international "reach". Like, it's set in wallachia or wherever, but the one coming after him are international organizations or vampire hunters, because it's implicit that he will conquer the whole world if not stopped.

A funny thing is the background of... I forgot, one of the GBA game. In the game, it's propechied that after getting defeated every once in a while dracula will have his ultimate comeback in 1999. And it happened, and there's apparently a super awesome fight happening with the last descendant of the belmonts leading an international UN army with tanks and soldiers and such against dracula's army of demon.... but it happened in the backstory

The game and its sequels are set a few years after the supposedly apocalyptic final battle, where someone is trying to be the next dark lord after dracula or something like that (I forgot, it's been a while).

[Giggling Ghast]

You're correct: Dracula is canonically defeated once and for all in 1999. The Sorrow series are all about the forces of evil trying to find a successor to Dracula.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...niclesOfSorrow

One of the potential candidates is the main character Soma, who is Dracula's reincarnation. Canonically, he rejects his evil past, but that doesn't stop other would-be dark lords from trying to bump him off.

[Kyberwulf]

I think the speed of Belmomts change was necessitated out of the fact there was.... only 4 episodes.

[Zalabim]

I think there's a few reasons for Dracula's surprisingly merciful anger. Flying into a murderous rage would be a very human reaction, and he's not trying to be a human anymore. He's a monster, and he's going to do this in his monstrous way.

He's just one vampire. If he tried to rip them apart with his bare hands, he might actually get killed by an angry mob. He has an army, magic, and a castle for a reason, not just 'reasons.' A long-term plan for revenge seems normal when that's the only thing that will work.

But the reason I thought he didn't kill anyone that night is because Lisa begged him not to.

[Dr.Samurai]

He blew all of his mana on appearing as a scary fireball and had to retreat and rest up.

Actually, I think this makes the most sense. If he had a line where he explains he's been living as a human for X number of years and his powers have waned in that time, and he has to recover, and in the meantime, he'll summon an army... that'd make much more sense than what we got.

This one is oa victim of the anime's brevity in only giving him two scenes. Alucard is an infamously taciturn stoic. He's less outwardly emotional than almost everyone else in the series. If you know that going in his conversation with his nemesis dad makes more sense.

Now that I think about it... there is that flashback scene in SotN. In it, Alucard does appear to be distressed and calling out to his mother when she's being burned alive. But she entreats him not to save her. So it could be in the anime that something similar happened. Alucard showed up and maybe that's who she was telling not to interfere. Like in Man of Steel. Because, you know, adults will just watch their parents die if their parents tell them to...

Because they were to spread the word of Dracula's vengeance in one year's time. Giving the people of Wallachia one year is absolutely pointless if nobody knows they have one year. Corpses can't spread news.

To what end? Dracula needs a year, yes. But what is the point of letting them live and "spread the news"?

Because you are saying that Dracula finds out his wife has been burned alive by zealots. He manifests at the spot. He can kill everyone there in a blind rage, like just about any normal person might, but he decides that it is better to kill everyone in Wallachia together. So he wants to summon a demon army and that will take a year. So he warns everyone that he will be back in a year to kill everyone in Wallachia, and decides still not to murder the people there because he wants them to let everyone else know, even though he doesn't tell them to spread the word.

Interesting...

[Velaryon]

Also, Alucard. When did Alucard find out that his mother was burned alive for no reason? I'm guessing it wasn't while she was being burned alive, otherwise he would have stopped it. It must have been after. But Dracula found out moments after it happened. So I'm guessing he was the one who told Alucard. Alucard also seems strangely calm even though his mother was just burned alive. "I grieve with you father..." Really?? This is you grieving? Aren't you upset as well?

Sorry, but the depictions of Dracula's and Alucard's reactions to the horrific murder of their wife and mother, respectively, is weird.

This one is oa victim of the anime's brevity in only giving him two scenes. Alucard is an infamously taciturn stoic. He's less outwardly emotional than almost everyone else in the series. If you know that going in his conversation with his nemesis dad makes more sense.

I agree with Legato Endless here; that's just how Alucard is, but unfortunately with the time limit of only 4 episodes, we haven't yet seen enough of him to understand that, if you don't already know the character.

I'm willing to forgive a lot because of that limitation. I'll be expecting more out of the next season, but so far other than a couple of weird moments, anything else can be attributed to the fact that there just weren't enough episodes to expand on things more.

[Giggling Ghast]

So he warns everyone that he will be back in a year to kill everyone in Wallachia, and decides still not to murder the people there because he wants them to let everyone else know, even though he doesn't tell them to spread the word.

Well, if it were me — and this is just me, mind you — if I saw a giant flaming head of Dracula vowing to come back in a year and kill everyone, I would probably mention that the next time I'm at the tavern having drinks. You know, provided no one's telling a really riveting tale about goat-f***ing.

What I'm saying that there's no need for the command; the implication of his threat is sufficient. And if they don't spread the word, it doesn't matter; Dracula's given them the warning. And again, he's not doing this to be charitable or merciful. It just doesn't matter to him who specifically killed his wife; all of humanity is responsible.

[Kyberwulf]

I think the major problem here is you are trying to prescribe human emotions to something that gave up humanity a long time ago.