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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 7: Psychopomp and Circumstance

    I feel at this point, Surma is kind of over James who is always on training. It's not Surma going directly to Tony over James right now. But if Surma usually spent her days at the Court waiting for James, now she is doing her own thing.

  2. - Top - End - #152
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    BarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 7: Psychopomp and Circumstance

    Quote Originally Posted by Mith View Post
    I feel at this point, Surma is kind of over James who is always on training. It's not Surma going directly to Tony over James right now. But if Surma usually spent her days at the Court waiting for James, now she is doing her own thing.
    Certainly Tony loved Surma obsessively, in contrast to James periodic absences.

    I have always thought that she wanted children despite the risks and James refused to consider putting her in jeopardy, whereas Tony, overly confident in his skills, won her by agreeing to do what she wanted. The children aspect seems much more a decisive issue than transient attention issues. Having kids is a deal breaker/maker.

    I like dialect Surma with her 'ya'.

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  3. - Top - End - #153
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 7: Psychopomp and Circumstance

    Quote Originally Posted by stsasser View Post
    Certainly Tony loved Surma obsessively, in contrast to James periodic absences.

    I have always thought that she wanted children despite the risks and James refused to consider putting her in jeopardy, whereas Tony, overly confident in his skills, won her by agreeing to do what she wanted. The children aspect seems much more a decisive issue than transient attention issues. Having kids is a deal breaker/maker.

    I like dialect Surma with her 'ya'.

    $.02
    Hm.

    HMMM.

    Disturbing idea. The fire elemental knows that to survive it has to be passed down to its current host's child. If Surma told Eglamore about this and also that having a child would result in her early death, and Jimmy Jims said, "No problem, no children"... would the elemental be able to manipulate Surma's emotions enough to make her turn from James to Anthony, whose over confidence in his ability to save her would lead him to go ahead with children? If so, Annie's real fight to make her own destiny may not be with the Court, or her father, or any of the other forces in GC, it might be with her fire elemental self...

  4. - Top - End - #154
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    guttering flame's Avatar

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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 7: Psychopomp and Circumstance

    Quote Originally Posted by eee View Post
    Hm.

    HMMM.

    Disturbing idea. The fire elemental knows that to survive it has to be passed down to its current host's child. If Surma told Eglamore about this and also that having a child would result in her early death, and Jimmy Jims said, "No problem, no children"... would the elemental be able to manipulate Surma's emotions enough to make her turn from James to Anthony, whose over confidence in his ability to save her would lead him to go ahead with children? If so, Annie's real fight to make her own destiny may not be with the Court, or her father, or any of the other forces in GC, it might be with her fire elemental self...
    She IS her elemental self, plus some humanish wrapping. When her mother died there was very little left to carry on to the 'other side'. When her dad tried to summon her mother's spirit back it was Annie he got. Is a long life worth the final death?

  5. - Top - End - #155
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 7: Psychopomp and Circumstance

    Quote Originally Posted by stsasser View Post
    Certainly Tony loved Surma obsessively, in contrast to James periodic absences.

    I have always thought that she wanted children despite the risks and James refused to consider putting her in jeopardy, whereas Tony, overly confident in his skills, won her by agreeing to do what she wanted. The children aspect seems much more a decisive issue than transient attention issues. Having kids is a deal breaker/maker.

    I like dialect Surma with her 'ya'.

    $.02
    The impression I got is that James is mostly gone during this period. I can see this leading to complacency on James' part, as he always expects her to be there upon his return. Granted, I am looking for an answer to James question to "Why would she choose Tony?" from the flashbacks. A notable reason is that James just isn't around. That can be a deal breaker for anyone, not just a fire elemental looking for a partner that would stick around to raise their daughter.

  6. - Top - End - #156
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    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 7: Psychopomp and Circumstance

    Quote Originally Posted by Surma
    James is off doin' his training ... and with you an' Donny away I'm going to be here alone
    So Brinnie's out of the picture, then? I feel there's probably a story there.
    NB: While I never mean to offend anybody, sometimes the unfortunate combination of Aspergersism and the inherent difficulty of reading a situation through uninflected text over the internet get in the way of that goal. Please feel free to point out any social faux pas, inappropriate joke timing, etc.

  7. - Top - End - #157
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 7: Psychopomp and Circumstance

    Quote Originally Posted by Mith View Post
    I feel at this point, Surma is kind of over James who is always on training. It's not Surma going directly to Tony over James right now. But if Surma usually spent her days at the Court waiting for James, now she is doing her own thing.
    We saw earlier that James seemed to like Jones even back then and Surma may have been jealous of Jones. (It's not clear why she couldn't stand Jones, but jealousy seems possible.) It may have been that Surma would only have been satisfied if James had been totally devoted to her. Jame's extensive training and any interest James had for Jones may both have been problems.

    BTW, why did James think it would be appropriate to have Jones in the picture? She wouldn't have been posing as a student, would she? Maybe Tom hadn't figured out how old she was yet?

  8. - Top - End - #158
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    CWater's Avatar

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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 7: Psychopomp and Circumstance

    Quote Originally Posted by eschmenk View Post
    We saw earlier that James seemed to like Jones even back then and Surma may have been jealous of Jones. (It's not clear why she couldn't stand Jones, but jealousy seems possible.) It may have been that Surma would only have been satisfied if James had been totally devoted to her. Jame's extensive training and any interest James had for Jones may both have been problems.

    BTW, why did James think it would be appropriate to have Jones in the picture? She wouldn't have been posing as a student, would she? Maybe Tom hadn't figured out how old she was yet?
    She had been around since he was a child. Perhaps he didn't know how old Jones really is, but they would have known her to be an adult. What I understand, Jones's form also cannot be changed. She mentions to Antimony that it's impossible to even pull a single hair off her head.

    Perhaps it wouldn't have been possible to have her in the picture in the first place, and that's what James is lamenting. That Surma doesn't like Jones is just an extra reason.
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  9. - Top - End - #159
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 7: Psychopomp and Circumstance

    Quote Originally Posted by CWater View Post
    She had been around since he was a child. Perhaps he didn't know how old Jones really is, but they would have known her to be an adult. What I understand, Jones's form also cannot be changed. She mentions to Antimony that it's impossible to even pull a single hair off her head.

    Perhaps it wouldn't have been possible to have her in the picture in the first place, and that's what James is lamenting. That Surma doesn't like Jones is just an extra reason.
    Actually, I had meant the author. I was thinking that he might not have decided how old she was yet, but I think he probably did. The page before the one you linked to showed that she also brought Donny to the school, so perhaps the idea was that other students had a relationship with her and not just James. At least James might have thought so. But it could also be that James just wasn't being all that rational. Or it was just a character acting strangely, which happens often enough.
    Last edited by eschmenk; 2017-08-10 at 10:50 AM.

  10. - Top - End - #160
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    CWater's Avatar

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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 7: Psychopomp and Circumstance

    Quote Originally Posted by eschmenk View Post
    Actually, I had meant the author. I was thinking that he might not have decided how old she was yet, but I think he probably did. The page before the one you linked to showed that she also brought Donny to the school, so perhaps the idea was that other students had a relationship with her and not just James. At least James might have thought so. But it could also be that James just wasn't being all that rational. Or it was just a character acting strangely, which happens often enough.
    Oh right! I'm sorry, for some reason my brain failed to register the name Tom, which makes your statement clear. My mistake.

    In any case, I think the author had made at least some decisions regarding Jones already back then. Funny enough, I thought that the purpose of that conversation after the photo shoot was to make it explicitly clear that Jones and Brinnie were not the same person (or that they weren't related). I believe there was a lot of speculation about that in the past.
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  11. - Top - End - #161
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 7: Psychopomp and Circumstance

    He's laughing.

    Quick, Surma, he's off guard: Set him on FIRE!!

    (Is it possible she's joking? She knew what the expedition was about all along - why go to the Amazon to study words, after all? - and just decided to see if Tony actually had a sense of humor?)

  12. - Top - End - #162
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    guttering flame's Avatar

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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 7: Psychopomp and Circumstance

    Studying insects is so mundane. Hardly worthy of a Gunnerkrigg's time.

  13. - Top - End - #163
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 7: Psychopomp and Circumstance

    Quote Originally Posted by eee View Post
    He's laughing.

    Quick, Surma, he's off guard: Set him on FIRE!!

    (Is it possible she's joking? She knew what the expedition was about all along - why go to the Amazon to study words, after all? - and just decided to see if Tony actually had a sense of humor?)
    There are tribes within the Amazon that we have had minimal to no contact with. Surma could have thought they were studying the languages of the various tribes.

  14. - Top - End - #164
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    Haruspex_Pariah's Avatar

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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 7: Psychopomp and Circumstance

    Quote Originally Posted by Mith View Post
    There are tribes within the Amazon that we have had minimal to no contact with. Surma could have thought they were studying the languages of the various tribes.
    In 1867 she says "I deal with that kind of stuff in the forest all the time", and assuming she's the Court medium at this point maybe she did think it was something to do with languages. I'm sure a lot of the Forest denizens don't even speak English?

    And everyone else in the room made the connection of Forest = bugs. Plausible I guess, though kind of a long setup for the etymology/entomology gag.
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  15. - Top - End - #165
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    Griffon

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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 7: Psychopomp and Circumstance

    Quote Originally Posted by Mith View Post
    There are tribes within the Amazon that we have had minimal to no contact with. Surma could have thought they were studying the languages of the various tribes.
    Twenty years ago?

    I mean, Wings did Kreen-Akrore, I think (looks like it was a Paul solo deal of some sort), but something must have happened since then.
    The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.

  16. - Top - End - #166
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 7: Psychopomp and Circumstance

    Quote Originally Posted by halfeye View Post
    Twenty years ago?

    I mean, Wings did Kreen-Akrore, I think (looks like it was a Paul solo deal of some sort), but something must have happened since then.
    Contact has probably been established, but perhaps an extensive language study had not been done. Granted, I assume that Gunnerkrigg Court is more of a late 90s early '00s with the exception of some more modern references. Subtract probably 15 years from the start of the comic and you are looking at late 70s early 80s.

  17. - Top - End - #167
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 7: Psychopomp and Circumstance

    Maybe she thought they'd be studying animal/fairie language. After all, why else would you bring the Forest Medium along? (Aside from the fact that she wasn't originally supposed to be brought along, and only came because Donald couldn't).

  18. - Top - End - #168
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 7: Psychopomp and Circumstance

    I'd say it's more that Surma didn't give the project any thought at all. She must not have asked any questions or otherwise prepared to help with the project.

  19. - Top - End - #169
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 7: Psychopomp and Circumstance

    I'm beginning to feel like Surma had a type.

    I can see a lot of myself in Tony, in that I'm an intensely private person who finds it hard to open up to people and finds it hard to express affection... a situation like this would more or less force me to open up to someone.
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  20. - Top - End - #170
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 7: Psychopomp and Circumstance

    I am not BUYING that Tony is getting more handsome, more ripped, and more appealing with each episode! Clearly, this IS mind control! He's MAKING Surma fall in love with him! That's the only thing that makes sense!

  21. - Top - End - #171
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 7: Psychopomp and Circumstance

    Quote Originally Posted by eee View Post
    I am not BUYING that Tony is getting more handsome, more ripped, and more appealing with each episode! Clearly, this IS mind control! He's MAKING Surma fall in love with him! That's the only thing that makes sense!
    To me it seems more likely that it's how Surma sees him that is changing, and the art is reflecting that.
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  22. - Top - End - #172
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 7: Psychopomp and Circumstance

    Quote Originally Posted by CWater View Post
    To me it seems more likely that it's how Surma sees him that is changing, and the art is reflecting that.
    I think eee's idea is that she's seeing him differently like that because of mind control.

    I think it's just that Tony is proving himself very competent as a researcher and as a traveler to a wild location and Tony is being nice to her like Tony would be with Donny. There are reasons Donny liked him as a friend, after all. I think Surma is impressed with him and is starting to like him and hormones are kicking in and changing the way she sees him. I'll note that Donny said that Tony was a "completely different person when you got to know him".

    I wouldn't be surprised if something goes wrong and Tony saves Surma and that cinches the deal. Or maybe both get into trouble. Being in a frightening situation together tends to draw people together.

  23. - Top - End - #173
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 7: Psychopomp and Circumstance

    Surma being eeked out by bugs feels off to me. Shouldn’t she have gotten used to them in the forest?

  24. - Top - End - #174
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 7: Psychopomp and Circumstance

    Quote Originally Posted by 137ben View Post
    Surma being eeked out by bugs feels off to me. Shouldn’t she have gotten used to them in the forest?
    Surma was always far less connected to the Forest than Annie ended up being. Her not being used to icky forest bugs makes total sense to me.
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  25. - Top - End - #175
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 7: Psychopomp and Circumstance

    Come on, Annie. Get with it. This aint Girl Genius where the protagonist freuently has to be told to put on some damme clothes.
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  26. - Top - End - #176
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    Officer Joy's Avatar

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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 7: Psychopomp and Circumstance

    Quote Originally Posted by stsasser View Post
    Come on, Annie. Get with it.
    You mean Surma, the mother of Annie.

    And of everything I feel I know about her, I'm guessing that there have been a handful of times when it was needed for someone to tell her to put some clothes on in her life.
    (Like about a dozen times in ~35 yeas of life)
    In contrast with Annie whom probably never needed someone to tell her that.

  27. - Top - End - #177
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    BarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 7: Psychopomp and Circumstance

    Quote Originally Posted by Officer Joy View Post
    You mean Surma, the mother of Annie.

    And of everything I feel I know about her, I'm guessing that there have been a handful of times when it was needed for someone to tell her to put some clothes on in her life.
    (Like about a dozen times in ~35 yeas of life)
    In contrast with Annie whom probably never needed someone to tell her that.
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  28. - Top - End - #178
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 7: Psychopomp and Circumstance

    Gorgeous scenery. But I hope that pack's bulkiness belies its weight, or they're not going to get very far. I doubt Surma is a hardened backpacker.

  29. - Top - End - #179
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 7: Psychopomp and Circumstance

    Tony knows smoove in the jungle.
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  30. - Top - End - #180
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    Zejety's Avatar

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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 7: Psychopomp and Circumstance

    So Tony either really has brainwashing powers or he is just a lot more outgoing when he sciences. Either way, I suppose we will learn why Kat started to like him.

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