The falcon and I

[stewstew5]

In one if my friends campaigns, I am introducing a character with... Less than ideal wisdom. If they had a familiar, would it be allowed to make spot checks?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Yup! Familiars are independent entities, who in some cases are probably smarter than their master. Not only do they get to make their own checks, they can use your skill ranks if they're higher-- it makes them really nice for scout-y, skill-y type characters.

[Waker]

This thread made me immediately think of Inspector Gadget. A hero who leaves all the thinking to a cohort and animal companion.

[stewstew5]

Yup! Familiars are independent entities, who in some cases are probably smarter than their master. Not only do they get to make their own checks, they can use your skill ranks if they're higher-- it makes them really nice for scout-y, skill-y type characters.

I like Grod's Law

[Grod_The_Giant]

I like Grod's Law

Thanks! 'twas spun out of a rather irritating argument about how tracking spell components was somehow supposed to "balance" spellcasters.

[stewstew5]

Further questions for this character... What do the tiefling traits "hellish resistance" and "infernal legacy" do?

[ATHATH]

When I saw the title of this thread, I immediately thought of The King and I, but with a falcon instead of the king.

... Infernal Legacy and Hellish Resistance are traits from the 5e Tiefling, not the 3.5e or the PF ones.

[stewstew5]

When I saw the title of this thread, I immediately thought of The King and I, but with a falcon instead of the king.

... Infernal Legacy and Hellish Resistance are traits from the 5e Tiefling, not the 3.5e or the PF ones.

That was indeed the point of the title, and where would i find data on the 3.5 tiefling?

[ATHATH]

That was indeed the point of the title, and where would i find data on the 3.5 tiefling?

The d20 SRD has stats for them (as a playable race), IIRC. I think the page is titled "Planetouched".

Why were you even looking at the 5e Tiefling in the first place? 5e is grossly incompatible with 3.5e.

[stewstew5]

The d20 SRD has stats for them (as a playable race), IIRC. I think the page is titled "Planetouched".

Why were you even looking at the 5e Tiefling in the first place? 5e is grossly incompatible with 3.5e.

Well, not entirely. And we're using the 5e model for my tiefling character, so, what do the traits do?

[Inevitability]

Well, not entirely. And we're using the 5e model for my tiefling character, so, what do the traits do?

Wait, is this 3.5 or 5e edition?

Tiefling stats for 5e can be found here.

[GilesTheCleric]

Well, not entirely. And we're using the 5e model for my tiefling character, so, what do the traits do?

3e and 5e have substantial differences both in terms of design philosophy and mechanics/ scaling. They're similar, but I wouldn't say they're compatible. Given that there's stats for them in both editions, you should use the appropriate stats for the edition you're playing.

[Grod_The_Giant]

When I saw the title of this thread, I immediately thought of The King and I, but with a falcon instead of the king.

... Infernal Legacy and Hellish Resistance are traits from the 5e Tiefling, not the 3.5e or the PF ones.

I mean, there's the Peregrine Runner...

3.5 Tiefling stats can be found here. Unlike later editions, they're not great as player races because of that +1 LA-- it means that a level 1 Tiefling counts as a level 2 character, meaning you'll always be 1 level lower than the rest of your party unless LA buyoff variant rules are in place. If you have access, there's a lesser version in, I think, Player's Guide to Faerun, that I think just trades being an Outsider for being a Humanoid (Planetouched).

[stewstew5]

I mean, there's the Peregrine Runner...

3.5 Tiefling stats can be found here. Unlike later editions, they're not great as player races because of that +1 LA-- it means that a level 1 Tiefling counts as a level 2 character, meaning you'll always be 1 level lower than the rest of your party unless LA buyoff variant rules are in place. If you have access, there's a lesser version in, I think, Player's Guide to Faerun, that I think just trades being an Outsider for being a Humanoid (Planetouched).

This sounds like a Grod's law disobeyer.


We're just using the 5e racial stats for a 3.5 campaign, not blending the two

[Grod_The_Giant]

This sounds like a Grod's law disobeyer.

Huh?

We're just using the 5e racial stats for a 3.5 campaign, not blending the two

So, that means...

Ability Score Increase: Your Intelligence score increases by 1, and your Charisma score increases by 2.

Easy enough

Age: Tieflings mature at the same rate as humans but live a few years longer.

Alignment: Tieflings might not have an innate tendency toward evil, but many of them end up there. Evil or not, an independent nature inclines many tieflings toward a chaotic alignment.

Irrelevant.

Size: Tieflings are about the same size and build as humans. Your size is Medium.

Speed: Your base walking speed is 30 feet.

Darkvision: Thanks to your infernal heritage, you have superior vision in dark and dim conditions. You can see in dim light within 60 feet of you as if it were bright light, and in darkness as if it were dim light. You can’t discern color in darkness, only shades of gray.

All translate fine.

Hellish Resistance: You have resistance to fire damage.

Strike one-- 5e's blanked "Resistance" doesn't exist in 3.5 per se, though "you take half damage from fire" is an easy enough rule to translate. Alternately, you could have Fire Resistance 10 or something.

Infernal Legacy. You know the thaumaturgy cantrip. When you reach 3rd level, you can cast the hellish rebuke spell as a 2nd-level spell once with this trait and regain the ability to do so when you finish a long rest. When you reach 5th level, you can cast the darkness spell once with this trait and regain the ability to do so when you finish a long rest. Charisma is your spellcasting ability for these spells.

So... Darkness exists, but the other two spells do not. We could either try to find existing spells that are close, or backport the 5e spells into 3.5 terms-- which would you prefer?

Languages: You can speak, read, and write Common and Infernal.

Fine.

Whatever happens, you're probably going to come out somewhere around LA+1, compared to other 3.5 races.

[Zaq]

This sounds like a Grod's law disobeyer.

Huh?

I think he means that the LA (and LA buyoff) rules are bad mechanics and annoying to use.

Which, to be fair, is kind of true. WotC really, really didn't want to allow you to play a "monstrous" race, but rather than just making the option unavailable, they tried to make it unattractive and annoying by adding LA/RHD to punish players who wanted to use those rules. And those are anything but well-designed, especially as written.

It's a departure from the context in which Grod's Law was written, so it's not a perfect match, but there's definitely a bit of connection there.

[Malimar]

By RAW, a familiar can make their own Spot checks, yes.

At my table, on the other hand, in the interest of not wasting time rolling excess dice, I figure the free Alertness feat represents your familiar basically using Aid Another on all your Spot and Listen checks, and therefore doesn't get to make these checks on their own. (But in the case of a familiar with better Spot and Listen than their master, I'd probably allow it the other way 'round. The point is to be not rolling two separate spot checks every time.)

Passive Perception is one of the few innovations from later editions I kind of like, for similar reasons.