OOTS #1073 - The Discussion Thread

[JumboWheat01]

Even the giant seems surprised/puzzled; you'd think that giants would at least use that ability to play giant catch or something.

Considering how meta this world is, they probably all know that they have that ability, and see no point in practicing it by playing catch, so they almost never get a chance to use it.

Besides, it's much more satisfying throwing giant rocks at something to hit it and smack it around than to be disappointed by someone catching it.

[TheNecrocomicon]

... going on a tangent about something barely related in your field of expertise to assert competence.

Sorry if that is harsh, but I noticed you hijacking half the thread with this kind of pedantic arguing. ...

Welcome to this forum, and/or the Internet.

[Kish]

I was going to quibble with that, but then I looked on the SRD and it shows the epic progression as being from level 21 onwards for all characters--so I'm not even sure where the "level 20 = epic" comes from in the first place?

From the same place as all the, "This is the start of the new millennium!" 17 years and 6 months ago.

[Chantelune]

Furkini Menace attacking the gas bag is not as useful as she thinks, as Elan can mend the gas bag. And the Fighter.

You might have forgotten how many tries it took elan to actually mend the previous gash : way too many. So if he keep on that path, that one gash might actually deplete his remaining mending spell, assuming he actually manages to focus long enough to cast the spell properly.

I mean, he's already standing there cracking jokes rather than doing what Roy ordered him to do. ^^;

[anonynos]

For me it's not so much "Will mending help the ship escape the valley?" since as pointed out that's not really on the table... it's more "Will mending prevent a sudden lost of lift and allow the ship to not plummet to it's doom with all hands?", and personally I'd say using a second (or even higher) spell slot to turn a deadly high speed crash into a slower more easily survivable one (at least from an NPC perspective, PCs aren't likely to die regardless) is clever, not wasteful. (yes, I know those are sill not opposites, I still say wasteful wouldn't apply).

[Unoriginal]

I'm no engineer, but how would modifying the propellers do anthing to help the ship's lift?

A blimp goes up and down thanks to ballasts, no? The propellers are only for horizontal movements

[Keltest]

I'm no engineer, but how would modifying the propellers do anthing to help the ship's lift?

A blimp goes up and down thanks to ballasts, no? The propellers are only for horizontal movements

If you look closely, there are a couple propellers towards the rear of the ship aligned to provide lift rather than horizontal movement. they may be there so that they can align the ship more precisely if they have a need to for whatever reason, or they may just be there to look cool. The world may never know.

[Peelee]

If you look closely, there are a couple propellers towards the rear of the ship aligned to provide lift rather than horizontal movement. they may be there so that they can align the ship more precisely if they have a need to for whatever reason, or they may just be there to look cool. The world may never know.

I always figured the blimp made the ship bouyant-neutral, and the vertical propellers was how they controlled rise and fall. Which, if so (or nearly so), in theory, making the propellers go faster may provide additional lift.

[Unoriginal]

But aren't propellers for propulsion, by definition?


If they're for the lift, shouldn't they be called rotors?

[factotum]

I'm sure I remember a real-world airship design that actually just had a balloon filled with air on top, and which used vertical propellers to get the thing off the ground. The balloon helped balance the ship somehow? It was a long time ago and my google-fu has failed to turn up anything, so I may be completely misremembering.

Anyway, we know that the Mechane's propellers can swivel vertically because we've seen them do that on numerous occasions, so it seems they are at least partially used for lift.

[Keltest]

I always figured the blimp made the ship bouyant-neutral, and the vertical propellers was how they controlled rise and fall. Which, if so (or nearly so), in theory, making the propellers go faster may provide additional lift.

Speaking to somebody who is better at physics than me (and he has the degree to prove it, as he likes to remind me), they would have no significant impact on the ship positioned the way they are. Unless theyre meant to blow air down on the crew for dramatic purposes, they are pretty much ornamental.

Upon further dialogue, Roy was lying when he said the blimp is powered by physics.

[Peelee]

Speaking to somebody who is better at physics than me (and he has the degree to prove it, as he likes to remind me), they would have no significant impact on the ship positioned the way they are. Unless theyre meant to blow air down on the crew for dramatic purposes, they are pretty much ornamental.

To be fair, I would argue that he's also better at physics than the author, who may well decide they do have significant impact in their current position.

[Keltest]

To be fair, I would argue that he's also better at physics than the author, who may well decide they do have significant impact in their current position.

Yeah. At this point I'm going to say "Rich went to art school, and Roy was lied to about how much it uses physics" because apparently this thing doesn't have any right to have made it past blueprinting there are so many design flaws with the apparent intent. I can live with "its rule of cool, move on already." as an explanation.

Having said that, if Andi attempts to reverse the polarity of anything, I'm leaving.

[Sermil]

Having said that, if Andi attempts to reverse the polarity of anything, I'm leaving.

To be fair, Frank Borman (the commander of Gemini 7 and Apollo 8) once told North American Aviation to reverse the polarity. Specifically, they had designed the Apollo Command Module control stick such that pulling back on the handle, the Apollo's nose pointed down -- the opposite of airplanes and Gemini. Borman told them they'd "got the polarity on this thing reversed" and told them to fix it. So, yes, he told them to reverse the polarity. (At which point the foolish engineer tried to explain to Colonel Borman -- a man who had 6,000 hours of flight time, and who was then-current holder of the world record for longest space flight, and who was the head representative of NASA, the organization which was paying for the whole project -- that the human factors guys had decided that this was the correct way to wire up the handle and that this was how "we" were going to fly the capsule. It did not go well for the engineer.)

Ref: Apollo 8 by Jeffrey Kluger, p78

[KillingAScarab]

"FWONK!" is an amazing sound effect that should be used far more often.

I think the font really helps, but yes, FWONK! was great.

[AnchoviePaste]

If Celia didn't exist, I'd be expecting Roy to hook up with this frost giant.

[Dr.Zero]

If Celia didn't exist, I'd be expecting Roy to hook up with this frost giant.

Groening already analyzed the side effects of such pairings

[10d10]

I'm going to be sad when she dies.

Right?!? Me too. I kinda want them to subdue/capture her or something, instead of killing her.

[Snails]

IMHO: The vertical propellers probably do not give meaningful lift, but rotate the axis of the ship, tilting up or downwards, so that the main propellers could be used to power rapid rise or descent. So presumably Andi is figuring out how to bypass all safeties and blow too much fuel into the engines, to give the main propellers added temporary boost.

[Keltest]

IMHO: The vertical propellers probably do not give meaningful lift, but rotate the axis of the ship, tilting up or downwards, so that the main propellers could be used to power rapid rise or descent. So presumably Andi is figuring out how to bypass all safeties and blow too much fuel into the engines, to give the main propellers added temporary boost.

That came up in the conversation too, and it wouldnt work because the balloon is secured to the ship by ropes. The propellers would have to be generating enough lift to make the ship rise independently of the balloon, which they A: wont and B: would probably brake the ship in some way if it did happen because of how its secured to the balloon.

[Peelee]

That came up in the conversation too, and it wouldnt work because the balloon is secured to the ship by ropes. The propellers would have to be generating enough lift to make the ship rise independently of the balloon, which they A: wont and B: would probably brake the ship in some way if it did happen because of how its secured to the balloon.

Brake or break? Both could potentially work here (though I'd like an explanation if it's brake, since I wouldn't understand how that'd work).

[Keltest]

Brake or break? Both could potentially work here (though I'd like an explanation if it's brake, since I wouldn't understand how that'd work).

Break. Sorry. Although destroying the ship would probably serve to brake it too.

[Peelee]

Break. Sorry. Although destroying the ship would probably serve to brake it too.

Ha. Yeah, the one time a typo could actually still work. Thanks!

[Snails]

That came up in the conversation too, and it wouldnt work because the balloon is secured to the ship by ropes. The propellers would have to be generating enough lift to make the ship rise independently of the balloon, which they A: wont and B: would probably brake the ship in some way if it did happen because of how its secured to the balloon.

Depends how the balloon is secured. It might be impossible, but I do not see how it is obviously so, given what we know.

[The MunchKING]

Yeah. At this point I'm going to say "Rich went to art school, and Roy was lied to about how much it uses physics" because apparently this thing doesn't have any right to have made it past blueprinting there are so many design flaws with the apparent intent. I can live with "its rule of cool, move on already." as an explanation.

Alternately the rules of physics work differently in this magic universe created by the Gods so they could have their Final Fantasy style airships. :p

[Unoriginal]

It would indeed be nice if Ice Giantess didn't die there. Then again, as funny as she can be, not sure if she could carry for longer once this particular situation is dealt with.

[The MunchKING]

I just thought about this, but if the airship is powered by helium, cutting the balloon at the bottom is pretty much the least efficient way to get the air out of it.

[Peelee]

I just thought about this, but if the airship is powered by helium, cutting the balloon at the bottom is pretty much the least efficient way to get the air out of it.

So long as it's under a lot more than 1atm, I don't think that inefficiency would matter much.

[factotum]

So long as it's under a lot more than 1atm, I don't think that inefficiency would matter much.

It probably won't be at that high a pressure, though. Assuming the Mechane is a blimp (e.g. the balloon doesn't have any internal structure maintaining its shape) then you only want to have just enough pressure in there to keep the balloon inflated--having any more reduces the effectiveness of the lifting gas, because you have more gas occupying the same volume and it's thus heavier. It also causes problems when your airship goes high up, because the reduction in outside pressure increases the strain on the balloon and can cause it to burst. In fact, rigid helium airships would often only be inflated to 90-95% of capacity on the ground to allow for this expansion, because helium is rare and expensive and you don't want to have to throw it away to relieve pressure if you can avoid it.

[Rogerborg]

Not bad, after the first two panels, which nobody will care about, ever.

Nobody.

Ever.