Savage Rifts I

[LibraryOgre]

I'm going to be optimistic and decide that a Savage Rifts topic (with a bit of foray into other Savage Worlds related stuff) will be popular enough to have a II.

So, Savage Rifts. Rifts using Savage Worlds. Rifts using something other than Kevin Siembieda's house rules for AD&D 1st edition. Who's playing? Who's got stuff they've converted from Rifts to Savage Worlds? I've done a few things... True Atlanteans, Ogres, Tattoo Magic, and Stone Magic... but I figure I'll let other people post a bit before I do more than tease you. ;-)

[Anderlith]

I like it, I ran a bit of it. I kinda don't like how friendly the world seems with the Tomorrow Legion & making the CS definitive bad guys, with the Federation being just as bad. I actually love the CS, & the Federation of Magic. It's like they are forcing you to play super positive progressive heroes, without much room for shady mercs, or CS soldiers (my favorite way to play) I'm not saying I want grimdark or a world of grey black morality, I just want a few more options than being in the Legion, fighting for peace & prosperity.

I also love how they handled Cyber Knights. They were lacking i Palladium, & it's nice to see them take a more grand role.

Also Savage Rifts are kind of a wonderful take on RIFTS, since you can craft any character using Savage Worlds world's & toss them in RIFTS, from Deadlands card dealing magicians to Supers.

[LibraryOgre]

I think the Tomorrow Legion only makes the world as friendly as you want it to be. I mean, their spiritual predecessor was Lazlo/New Lazlo, but those don't seem huge because we never had any detail about them. We actually have information about the Tomorrow Legion, but I don't think that prevents you from playing Coalition troops or FoM... they're just not the focus of what's come out so far.

For Coalition soldiers? I'd suggest throwing together a MARS package to represent PC-quality troops... or just use the Merc Soldier, Power Armor Soldier, Robot Armor Pilot, Operator... even Rogue Scholar... packages and balance their free CS gear and income with a Vow to the Coalition.

[xroads]

I enjoyed recently running a crossover event in a SW Necessary Evil game I was running. In one episode I had the players encounter a strange military force that was sending scouting parties from a portal (Coalition forces). They eventually defeated the Coalition and rescued an ally who the Coalition had determined was a D-Bee and was planning on bringing back across the portal for "questioning".

And it looks like I'm going to get a chance to run an actual RIFTS campaign. So I'm looking forward to that.

[Cluedrew]

What's Savage Rifts? Beyond the little identifier tag in post 1, for someone who knows nothing about either Savage Worlds or Rifts.

Or if you would prefer, someone (me) who knows some about Savage Worlds and almost nothing about Rifts.

[xroads]

What's Savage Rifts? Beyond the little identifier tag in post 1, for someone who knows nothing about either Savage Worlds or Rifts.

Or if you would prefer, someone (me) who knows some about Savage Worlds and almost nothing about Rifts.

Rifts is a post-apocalyptic setting that mash-ups elements from many other settings; cyber-punk, fantasy, westerns, & more. The premise being that the world went to pot about a millennia ago. Portals opened up all over the place and dimensional beings poured into our world bringing all types of tech, psychic energy, & magic with them.

The setting was originally created by Palladium Books. However they made a deal with Pinnacle recently, and so it's been adopted for the Savage World system.

Hope that helps. :-)

[LibraryOgre]

Since we've gone a bit further, some stuff I've worked up for SWR

Stone Magic and Pyramids.

Tattoo Magic

Since you have Tattoo Magic, you also have Ogres.

And True Atlanteans.

The True Atlanteans are specifically designed to be a "playable" version... something you can plug into a game, rather than with all the powers and such that a Sunaj Assassin has... no ley-line phasing or such.

True Atlantean Nomads, who are those fully developed, adult and experienced True Atlanteans. Based on the MARS Personal Concept, but with their Fortune and Glory rolls made for them.

[Beelzebub1111]

I kinda don't like how friendly the world seems with the Tomorrow Legion & making the CS definitive bad guys, with the Federation being just as bad. I actually love the CS, & the Federation of Magic. It's like they are forcing you to play super positive progressive heroes, without much room for shady mercs, or CS soldiers (my favorite way to play) I'm not saying I want grimdark or a world of grey black morality, I just want a few more options than being in the Legion, fighting for peace & prosperity.

That's kind of disappointing. The nuances within the CS were what drew me into the setting in the first place.

How do they handle vampires? Are they still awesomely strong/stupidly weak if you're expecting them? That was the thing I disagreed with the most in lore, that thr Coalition would lose to the vampire kingdoms. Like, they have access to spotlights that they can put crosses in front of and High pressure anti-riot water cannons. They will be fine. Strap those to a spiderskull walker and you're done.

[xroads]

That's kind of disappointing. The nuances within the CS were what drew me into the setting in the first place.
How do they handle vampires? Are they still awesomely strong/stupidly weak if you're expecting them? That was the thing I disagreed with the most in lore, that the Coalition would lose to the vampire kingdoms. Like, they have access to spotlights that they can put crosses in front of and High pressure anti-riot water cannons. They will be fine. Strap those to a spiderskull walker and you're done.

The CS still have some nuance to them. In fact...

Spoiler: Garnet Town Gambit

Show

In Garnet Town Gambit, the first module to come out for the new system, a CS soldier is used as a red herring. Players are led to believe he might be responsible for the trouble in the town, but in fact, is not.

But it does seem like they are the primary bad guys. Especially since the setting takes place a few short months after they wiped out the Tolkeen Empire.

As for vampires, they are briefly mentioned, but Pinnacle hasn't released much material on them. The only vampire stats available are for Wild Vampires. These vampires can definitely be a threat, but aren't difficult to put down.

[Beelzebub1111]

If I remember, towards the end of the tolkeen wars they were sacrificing children and contacting demons for aid and pretty much turning into the FoM.

No word on the return of vampire intelligences? Honestly a mid level water warlock could take out the entire kingdom IMHO

[DigoDragon]

I was recently exposed to this system and it looked really interesting. Some local friends are interested in getting me into a game. 'course the issue is that half expect me to play some over-the-top inter-dimensional talking animal with a really big gun and the other half is about ready to cringe at my inevitable over-the-top inter-dimensional talking animal with a really big gun.

[xroads]

If I remember, towards the end of the tolkeen wars they were sacrificing children and contacting demons for aid and pretty much turning into the FoM.

No word on the return of vampire intelligences? Honestly a mid level water warlock could take out the entire kingdom IMHO

Not as far as I saw. The wild vampire has a d4 intelligence and must be made of sugar since it would dissolve in a rainstorm. Reminds me of the movie Signs. Why invade a planet that is 71% covered in water if your main weakness is water?

I just assume that vampires got stuck here either through a rift or some bad Faustian deal, and are just making the best of it.

I was recently exposed to this system and it looked really interesting. Some local friends are interested in getting me into a game. 'course the issue is that half expect me to play some over-the-top inter-dimensional talking animal with a really big gun and the other half is about ready to cringe at my inevitable over-the-top inter-dimensional talking animal with a really big gun.

This a system that practically demands you make an inter-dimensional talking animal with a really big gun. Heck, one of the NPCs I recently created is an anthropomorphic cigar smoking badger who is also a techno-wizard.

[Beelzebub1111]

Not as far as I saw. The wild vampire has a d4 intelligence and must be made of sugar since it would dissolve in a rainstorm. :

Well that's why they live in the desert. And can't invade america becaise they can't cross the Rio Grand. So that's the same (Sqirt guns ftw) Also not what I meant when i said intelligence. I mean the guy in the far back

[xroads]

Well that's why they live in the desert. And can't invade america becaise they can't cross the Rio Grand. So that's the same (Sqirt guns ftw) Also not what I meant when i said intelligence. I mean the guy in the far back

Heh. No, word yet if that guy is going to make it in this version of the Megaverse. But I think Savage Worlds is trying to remains as faithful to the source as they can. So I wouldn't doubt it if it does.

[xroads]

I had a player ask a good question; does he need to pay for ammo?

Should the players expect the Legion to pay for their supplies, or should they buy supplies from the sell of loot?

If the Legion pays for the supplies, should they expect heroes to turn loot over to them instead of selling it?

[Spamotron]

I had a player ask a good question; does he need to pay for ammo?

Should the players expect the Legion to pay for their supplies, or should they buy supplies from the sell of loot?

If the Legion pays for the supplies, should they expect heroes to turn loot over to them instead of selling it?

That's probably something you should discuss with your group. I think the designers didn't mention it on purpose because different groups would have different preferences. It has brought up debate before on the Savage World forums. The trigger of the debate was a published adventure where one part strongly encourages the players to capture a Coalition Mark V APC intact because it has innocent prisoners aboard. Said Mark V APC has a black market value of 21 Million credits. Assuming the players can only get about 10-20% of that because its a hot item that is dangerous to possess and sell that's still 2.1-4.2 million credits from one adventure.

Some people said that of course the Tomorrow Legion would expect the squad to turn over the APC to them and not sell it and it would suspend disbelief if they didn't. Others said that denying the players a big reward for a big risk was unfair and could cause resentment. Especially if there's a cyborg in the party relying on those credits to upgrade himself.

Its not necessarily a problem isolated to one adventure because any fusion powered vehicle is worth a small fortune even the "common," ones. Any adventure where the bad guys have one will likely tempt the players into stealing it and they only need to succeed once to be rolling in credits.

One suggestion is that the players could receive alternate rewards for turning in their loot to the Legion in the form of rank, contacts and reputation. So for turning in the APC they could all get promotions and never have to buy their own drinks again in the Castle Refuge bars.

[LibraryOgre]

At a guess, the Legion will give you some ammo, but anything more will be on your own. In the field? You don't get to fill out an expense report for your e-clip charges.

[JAL_1138]

I'm going to be optimistic and decide that a Savage Rifts topic (with a bit of foray into other Savage Worlds related stuff) will be popular enough to have a II.

So, Savage Rifts. Rifts using Savage Worlds. Rifts using something other than Kevin Siembieda's house rules for AD&D 1st edition. Who's playing? Who's got stuff they've converted from Rifts to Savage Worlds? I've done a few things... True Atlanteans, Ogres, Tattoo Magic, and Stone Magic... but I figure I'll let other people post a bit before I do more than tease you. ;-)

As somebody who could never make heads or tails enough of the Rifts corebook (the old softcover; no idea about the new Ultimate Edition hardcover) to get started playing, but always liked the general concept of Rifts, I'm pretty jazzed about a version I can actually grok well enough to play.

(Granted my problems with old Rifts were probably due to dodgy organization of the book rather than the system itself, and I could probably get it if an experienced player or GM showed me how to play, but I got lost enough to give up partway through my first attempts to read the rules. Which seems odd if it really did does amount to a bunch of houserules for AD&D, since I played a ton of 2e back in the day. Trying to read through it I didn't really notice much similarity.)

[LibraryOgre]

As somebody who could never make heads or tails enough of the Rifts corebook (the old softcover; no idea about the new Ultimate Edition hardcover) to get started playing, but always liked the general concept of Rifts, I'm pretty jazzed about a version I can actually grok well enough to play.

(Granted my problems with old Rifts were probably due to dodgy organization of the book rather than the system itself, and I could probably get it if an experienced player or GM showed me how to play, but I got lost enough to give up partway through my first attempts to read the rules. Which seems odd if it really did does amount to a bunch of houserules for AD&D, since I played a ton of 2e back in the day. Trying to read through it I didn't really notice much similarity.)

To core of old Rifts was "Combat is opposed d20 rolls, skills are roll under %". The one time I played with Kevin, that was really all he worried about. But, as you said, dodgy organization makes it a difficult game to really master.

That said, I'm loving Savage Rifts. Haven't gotten to play yet (two kids and a wife REALLY limit your weekends), but it's a fun system to work with.

Something that came up elsewhere: If someone is wearing Coalition gear, what would you consider an appropriate Charisma penalty? I lean towards a -4, with the rationale of the CS being the Racial Enemy of pretty much everyone. In human-dominated lands like NG, Colombia, or the NDR, you're going to have between a 0 and -2... because even if you are allied with the CS, they do have a bit of a reputation as bastards.

[xroads]

Something that came up elsewhere: If someone is wearing Coalition gear, what would you consider an appropriate Charisma penalty? I lean towards a -4, with the rationale of the CS being the Racial Enemy of pretty much everyone. In human-dominated lands like NG, Colombia, or the NDR, you're going to have between a 0 and -2... because even if you are allied with the CS, they do have a bit of a reputation as bastards.

A -4 with most races sounds about right. Most of the races in the PHB have a natural -4 when dealing with the CS as it is. So it would makes sense that enmity is shared both ways.

For most humans interactions I'd leave it at 0. The exceptions being any magic/psychic wielding human or humans that work extensively with other races. Considering what they did to the Tolkeen Empire is still fresh on everyone's mind, I can very easily seeing a -4 being used for the former.

[Beelzebub1111]

A -4 with most races sounds about right. Most of the races in the PHB have a natural -4 when dealing with the CS as it is. So it would makes sense that enmity is shared both ways.

For most humans interactions I'd leave it at 0. The exceptions being any magic/psychic wielding human or humans that work extensively with other races. Considering what they did to the Tolkeen Empire is still fresh on everyone's mind, I can very easily seeing a -4 being used for the former.

I guess it would be based on their opinion of Tolkeen's actions in the war. I mean, if they were aware of the human sacrifices and bargains with demons, and they didn't approve of those things, maybe a -2?

It's complicated, but that's one of the things I like about the setting.

[JAL_1138]

To core of old Rifts was "Combat is opposed d20 rolls, skills are roll under %". The one time I played with Kevin, that was really all he worried about. But, as you said, dodgy organization makes it a difficult game to really master.

That said, I'm loving Savage Rifts. Haven't gotten to play yet (two kids and a wife REALLY limit your weekends), but it's a fun system to work with.

Something that came up elsewhere: If someone is wearing Coalition gear, what would you consider an appropriate Charisma penalty? I lean towards a -4, with the rationale of the CS being the Racial Enemy of pretty much everyone. In human-dominated lands like NG, Colombia, or the NDR, you're going to have between a 0 and -2... because even if you are allied with the CS, they do have a bit of a reputation as bastards.

I suppose the way you figure hits and dodging didn't trigger the AD&D connection for me, nor do roll-under d% skills in and of themselves really. Still, I suppose I can see it if I squint a bit. Very cool that you got to play with the author!

[Anderlith]

To core of old Rifts was "Combat is opposed d20 rolls, skills are roll under %". The one time I played with Kevin, that was really all he worried about. But, as you said, dodgy organization makes it a difficult game to really master.

That said, I'm loving Savage Rifts. Haven't gotten to play yet (two kids and a wife REALLY limit your weekends), but it's a fun system to work with.

Something that came up elsewhere: If someone is wearing Coalition gear, what would you consider an appropriate Charisma penalty? I lean towards a -4, with the rationale of the CS being the Racial Enemy of pretty much everyone. In human-dominated lands like NG, Colombia, or the NDR, you're going to have between a 0 and -2... because even if you are allied with the CS, they do have a bit of a reputation as bastards.

I sort of don't feel like they should get Cha penalties. Anyone who hates the CS will start with unfriendly or confrontational moods towards them. It's not the same as a racial penalty.

[LibraryOgre]

I suppose the way you figure hits and dodging didn't trigger the AD&D connection for me, nor do roll-under d% skills in and of themselves really. Still, I suppose I can see it if I squint a bit. Very cool that you got to play with the author!

It's a bit clearer if you've followed the system from its roots. The dodges and parries replace a static AC (and cause their own problems when interacting with the static AR numbers, especially in later iterations as bonuses rise), and the roll under d% skills is exactly how thief skills worked since the class was introduced in the Greyhawk Supplement. Even several points of departure are specifically rejections of the D&D paradigm... the "No Neutrals" speech in most alignment discussions in most books, the discussion in the wizard section about how silly it is for wizards to forget their spells.

I sort of don't feel like they should get Cha penalties. Anyone who hates the CS will start with unfriendly or confrontational moods towards them. It's not the same as a racial penalty.

Yeah, but how do you represent "These people are unfriendly or confrontational towards you, and so it will be difficult to use social skills on them", save through a Charisma penalty? Why do Grackletooths get a Charisma Penalty with Coalition soldiers? Because the CS soldiers are going to be unfriendly and confrontational towards them.

[JAL_1138]

It's a bit clearer if you've followed the system from its roots. The dodges and parries replace a static AC (and cause their own problems when interacting with the static AR numbers, especially in later iterations as bonuses rise), and the roll under d% skills is exactly how thief skills worked since the class was introduced in the Greyhawk Supplement. Even several points of departure are specifically rejections of the D&D paradigm... the "No Neutrals" speech in most alignment discussions in most books, the discussion in the wizard section about how silly it is for wizards to forget their spells.

While Thief skills (and several other checks) as roll-under d% were a staple of AD&D (I played a lot of 2e back in ye olde days, and have read at least a bit of every iteration of it--my collection of physical copies is only missing 3.0 and White Box, as far as corebooks go) and D&D did it first (along with most of the rest of TTRPG dice mechanics except dice pools), I didn't really connect d% skills as "houseruling AD&D" because it's a common and intuitive way to figure percent chances that crops up a lot of places. Chaosium systems, for example. Descended from it, to be sure. The presentation from the bits I did read further obfuscated it. And again, I didn't make it far in before I got a bit lost and gave up, so I'm sure I missed a lot that would've let me grok it better and recognize the similarities had I stuck with it.

The organization problems are certainly reminiscent...

I'll take another gander at it one of these days now that I've got a better grasp on some of the terminology through the Savage Worlds incarnation.

As for Coalition penalties to Charisma, I'm not certain how to resolve that. -4 is steep considering that most characters will have 0 CHA. And humans may not see them as quite so bad. A DB wearing Coalition gear would also throw things for a loop, and could vary wildly depending on whether the person seeing it assumes they've looted/stolen it (the most likely assumption), or have turned against their own kind (and somehow not been killed out of hand), or have been enslaved or something. Dogboys, for all that PC dogboys are supposed to be defectors, might still harbor less hatred than others, too.

[coffeeman]

All I know is Savage Worlds Rifts looks bat**** insane and I'd love to give it a go, but I've heard it takes the "fast, furious, fun!" of Savage Worlds and kind of turns it into "oftentimes a bit of a complicated slog, furious, fun!"

[xroads]

All I know is Savage Worlds Rifts looks bat**** insane and I'd love to give it a go, but I've heard it takes the "fast, furious, fun!" of Savage Worlds and kind of turns it into "oftentimes a bit of a complicated slog, furious, fun!"

Character creation takes longer because of the new templates system they implement for this setting. But the game still runs rather smoothly and quickly. At least from my experience so far (I've played in about a half dozen games).

[Malifice]

Three new source-books just announced.

It was enough to get me digging out my old savage worlds house rules and giving a bit of a look.

[LibraryOgre]

The Mod Wonder: Closed for Necromancy.