The Elder Scrolls XIII: Born Under a Certain Sign

[Keltest]

But that's exactly how all the weapon skills work in Skyrim? You do more damage as your skill in a weapon increases, regardless of what perks you take.

Yes. I found vanilla Skyrim's combat system to be somewhat frustrating. The destruction magic perks were nice, if boring, but the spell selection was awful, and since almost everything in Skyrim is leveled with you, in practice I felt myself growing less powerful compared to my enemies as the game went on, even if I pumped all my perks and skills into a single attack method for maximum power.

[Triaxx]

Thus, mods. I'm wondering if perhaps they hadn't realized how badly they'd crippled magic. Then again, I suppose it's like D&D: Magic is over powered! Reduce it's damage. Yes but it's not damage... REDUCE THE DAMAGE!

Because Skyrim's Magic is crazy strong, but it's damage output is terrible, barring Lightning Hose. And even then, you have to survive long enough standing still to actually rev it up. Compare Paralyse, which charges hits and the enemy is then a sitting duck, or Calm/Fury where the enemy is now out of the fight for an extended period, or is now doing damage on your side. And Conjuration, where you can call down Daedric war makers to strike down your foes, or turn their own corpses into your allies.

[Keltest]

Thus, mods. I'm wondering if perhaps they hadn't realized how badly they'd crippled magic. Then again, I suppose it's like D&D: Magic is over powered! Reduce it's damage. Yes but it's not damage... REDUCE THE DAMAGE!

Because Skyrim's Magic is crazy strong, but it's damage output is terrible, barring Lightning Hose. And even then, you have to survive long enough standing still to actually rev it up. Compare Paralyse, which charges hits and the enemy is then a sitting duck, or Calm/Fury where the enemy is now out of the fight for an extended period, or is now doing damage on your side. And Conjuration, where you can call down Daedric war makers to strike down your foes, or turn their own corpses into your allies.

Indeed, the most fun with a mage I ever had was a conjurer/illusionist who never actually struck a single blow personally.

[VoxRationis]

Thus, mods. I'm wondering if perhaps they hadn't realized how badly they'd crippled magic. Then again, I suppose it's like D&D: Magic is over powered! Reduce it's damage. Yes but it's not damage... REDUCE THE DAMAGE!

Because Skyrim's Magic is crazy strong, but it's damage output is terrible, barring Lightning Hose. And even then, you have to survive long enough standing still to actually rev it up. Compare Paralyse, which charges hits and the enemy is then a sitting duck, or Calm/Fury where the enemy is now out of the fight for an extended period, or is now doing damage on your side. And Conjuration, where you can call down Daedric war makers to strike down your foes, or turn their own corpses into your allies.

Even that magic has taken something of a hit since the old days. I've never really played Morrowind heavily owing to frustration with technical issues and frustration with cliff racers, but I still remember a much broader, heavier system of spell effects. In particular, any spells not dealing with "fight people, either directly or indirectly," took hits as the years went by. Where did all the unlock spells go? In Skyrim, there's just one such effect, and it's from the Tower Stone. Why can't we levitate anymore? Why can't we charm people anymore (and no, calm is not the same thing)?

[Spore]

There was a pact to make flight magic inaccessible but I never knew what happened to the teleport spells. Maybe the Aldmeri Dominion doesnt like magic prowess of the enemy because thats actually their forte. Then again what would a rogue mage care about that?

[LibraryOgre]

I saw an argument that basically said that the Jagar Tharn incident was the beginning of the slide of Tamriel's magic. In Arena, you're destroying walls, creating long-lasting magical shields, all sorts of things. You see a real fall-off in Oblivion... no more flying, no more teleportation (except for rare magical objects). By Skyrim? Magical study has fallen off horribly, and many of the effects once taken for granted are now inaccessible.

One might also suggest it is due to changes wrought by the Oblivion crisis, actually. Oblivion and earlier, summoning was a fairly difficult act, requiring a lot of Magicka. Come Skyrim, and I may not be casting Atronach Thrall spells, but I can summon Dremora at will.

[Winter_Wolf]

I like destruction and all that, but mostly just for show. It's pretty bad at killing things quickly. Mayhem bombs are where it's at. Then find a good seat and bring out the bow. They're so busy trying to murder each other that you don't even have to worry about being seen shooting them. I may have dropped a mayhem spell in the middle of Whiterun before I was clear on what it did. And then harmony. Stuff was flying everywhere. Yay havoc physics!

I mean sure I could add mod magic, but it bugs me when the standard perk trees are muddled with, and that seems part and parcel of magic mods.

[Triaxx]

Neither Apocalypse, nor Midas Magic touch the perk trees.

Personally, before swapping to Ordinator, I used Balanced Magic, which made very minor changes to the perk trees, such as making all perks reduce costs for all spell levels, but by a lesser amount per perk. It also added a damage bonus to the Destruction perks, and massively boosted the Alteration perk that extended time limits, both for a longer time, and to affect all schools, like Quiet Casting.

[Winter_Wolf]

Hm, I guess I had a comprehension fail, I always seemed to parse "modded magic" to include perk tree changes. SPERG gave me fits and I have no intention of messing with Ordinator.

Then again I only use better rune master--or is it unlimited rune casting? Anyway--and I used to use an illusion spells mod because I always ended up at a level where enemy spawns were too high a level to be affected or too low a level to be worth it (skeevers).

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Where did all the unlock spells go? In Skyrim, there's just one such effect, and it's from the Tower Stone. Why can't we levitate anymore? Why can't we charm people anymore (and no, calm is not the same thing)?

I want Feather and/or Fortify Carry Weight spells back. Spells mind, I know there are potions for the latter. The problem with potions is that they must be carried--thus making the inventory situation worse. Also they have a bad habit of running out.

There was a pact to make flight magic inaccessible

I keep hearing about this; where is this written down? Also there must be SOME exceptions to it because they used Levitate spells in the Lord of Souls book.

[VoxRationis]

I keep hearing about this; where is this written down? Also there must be SOME exceptions to it because they used Levitate spells in the Lord of Souls book.

I wouldn't worry too much about the lore of it. The real reason is that things like Levitate force the game designers to accommodate multiple routes of access and multiple ways of navigating the world, instead of going along the very specific rails they want for each dungeon.

[LibraryOgre]

I keep hearing about this; where is this written down? Also there must be SOME exceptions to it because they used Levitate spells in the Lord of Souls book.

The Levitation Act was a law passed throughout the Empire in 3E 421 which outlawed the use of levitation magic.

[Triaxx]

Looking at them side by side, I can understand your hesitation. What EnaiSiaion did with Ordinator, is break up things into discrete mods, instead of being an all in one overhaul. Ordinator does perks. That's all it does. No difficulty changes, no new spells, and a whopping 1 item, which is a Scroll of Legends used to respec for uninstall, or just plain respecing.

Difficulty changes come from Wildcat, which is a separate mod and not required. Apocalypse adds new spells, and doesn't change perks, or difficulty levels. Mostly NPC's don't get the new spells, but you may see them wielding staves of the new spells. It leads to a much more configurable experience, so you're not jammed with it all at once unless you choose to be.

SkyRe had the same issue: I'll just install all the options. Wow, this is a cool new weapon. Oh GODS, why am I being murdered by Skeevers!

I had a mod that boosted the Dual Casting from 2.2x to 3.0x for the same 2.8x cost, and that seemed to work pretty well.

[Temotei]

I want Feather and/or Fortify Carry Weight spells back. Spells mind, I know there are potions for the latter. The problem with potions is that they must be carried--thus making the inventory situation worse. Also they have a bad habit of running out.

And let spells/potions of those effects stack if they're from different sources or something. Or just let potions stack.

Note that Apocalypse does have one spell that increases your movement speed and carry weight (x3 outside of combat). Concentration casting, though.

[veti]

I had a bunch of technical issues with Skyrim yesterday. Mostly related to radiant quests going to cleared dungeons. And somehow, none of my issues were due to dropping a 5 year old script mod into SE. That mod is Slower Companions Advancement, and it does what you'd expect: make it so you need to do more radiant quests to advance the Companions questline. I was surprised I couldn't find anything that does that for SE, but so far the script seems to work. I'll know once I've done 2 or three more radiants (I suspect Pelt Collection isn't going to count for progress, as it's not available in vanilla).

Most script mods from original Skyrim should work in SE, provided they don't rely on SKSE. I've used a few with no issues. There are a few exceptions (by, I'm guessing, authors who got more ambitious), but "changing the start conditions of a few quests", which is what that one amounts to, should be safe enough.

[Balmas]

So, I'm thinking of getting ESO as one of my steam summer sale presents to myself. Anyone have experience with that? Good, bad? Is it an Elder Scrolls game in its own right, or is it just an MMO with Elder Scrolls paint on?

Even that magic has taken something of a hit since the old days. I've never really played Morrowind heavily owing to frustration with technical issues and frustration with cliff racers, but I still remember a much broader, heavier system of spell effects. In particular, any spells not dealing with "fight people, either directly or indirectly," took hits as the years went by. Where did all the unlock spells go? In Skyrim, there's just one such effect, and it's from the Tower Stone. Why can't we levitate anymore? Why can't we charm people anymore (and no, calm is not the same thing)?

Some speculation:
-Unlock spells rendered an entire skill effectively useless, and therefore had to be pruned for 'balance.'
-Levitation both requires game devs to put interesting things in more locations, and come up with more interesting level design than "high ledge that you drop down right next to the door." Too much effort. Cut.
-Because charm implies disposition, which is something that also got cut in all but the most superficial of ways in Skyrim.

[Keltest]

So, I'm thinking of getting ESO as one of my steam summer sale presents to myself. Anyone have experience with that? Good, bad? Is it an Elder Scrolls game in its own right, or is it just an MMO with Elder Scrolls paint on?

I enjoy it. They just released the Nostalga expansion, and it achieves its goal, IMO. it got a bad rep because it had a lot of problems at launch, but it has largely moved past those IMO.

[Lord Raziere]

Well.....hm.......there are some.....MMO elements to ESO.

for example, there are classes, but they aren't as limiting as classes in other games per se. Basically classes give you a skill path packages of three paths you can develop that the class has, but you have a bunch of other skill paths full of abilities that are completely universal.

for example, all classes can learn to wear any type of armor, all classes can learn to wield any weapon including healing and destruction staves, all classes can learn how to steal and be stealthy, and thus you can be a mage who wears heavy armor and dual-wields swords if you want, you just have to find the equips you want, put em on and start killing things with them and you'll gain access to the skill path.

other than that it feels pretty TES to me. you of course start off a prisoner, and your first epic overarching quest is to get your own soul back from Molag Bal after escaping Coldharbor. and yes you can steal things from NPC's and get attacked by guards and get bounties.

of course the races are set up so that three are naturally keyed to certain faction unless you pay to modify that so that you can be a race of one faction in a different one, but thats not a too big of an issue to me. the lore itself keeps itself accurate and cool, be do know that all of ESO is taking place during a Dragon Break, so if there are differences and contradictions then thats just apart of the thousand different timelines all flying about before they all get mashed back together.

[Sajiri]

So, I'm thinking of getting ESO as one of my steam summer sale presents to myself. Anyone have experience with that? Good, bad? Is it an Elder Scrolls game in its own right, or is it just an MMO with Elder Scrolls paint on?

I enjoy it, I guess. I've never got very far since I don't know anyone else playing it. I like it but something about it is just...I dunno. Usually when I play it I just want to get back on skyrim or oblivion instead.

Speaking of ESO, I bought morrowind recently and decided to make a new character for the expansion. I got the unlock long ago so I could play any race any faction, and I forgot to change my faction during creation, then I started in Morrowind. I heard this was specific to one faction, I forget which but obviously whatever I chose. I havent gotten too far yet but am I able to go back and do the original storyline still? I never finished it and I hope I didnt lock myself out by beginning in morrowind

[Mutazoia]

I enjoy it, I guess. I've never got very far since I don't know anyone else playing it. I like it but something about it is just...I dunno. Usually when I play it I just want to get back on skyrim or oblivion instead.

Speaking of ESO, I bought morrowind recently and decided to make a new character for the expansion. I got the unlock long ago so I could play any race any faction, and I forgot to change my faction during creation, then I started in Morrowind. I heard this was specific to one faction, I forget which but obviously whatever I chose. I havent gotten too far yet but am I able to go back and do the original storyline still? I never finished it and I hope I didnt lock myself out by beginning in morrowind

Your new character(s) will be running the new story line. Any characters made before Morrowwind should be continuing the old story line.

[Sajiri]

Your new character(s) will be running the new story line. Any characters made before Morrowwind should be continuing the old story line.

I just wanted to play with Warden and have a pet bear ):

[Mutazoia]

I just wanted to play with Warden and have a pet bear ):

I'm not all that impressed with the new Warden class yet. The "Ice" warden seems rather meh. So far seems to be all defense and little to no offence. The "healer" warden doesn't have much in the way of offensive or defensive oomph, and the "Pokemon" warden (I choose YOU cliffdiver-chu!) is the only one I haven't tried yet due to lack of open character slots (really...give is a new class with 3 options, but only open up 2 new character slots?).

I do like that they've shortened up the tutorial phase, making it almost impossible to have a character sit in the tutorial area until they are max level, like people would do in the last tutorial. Nobody running in perpetual circles with the attack button glued down to instantly auto-attack new spawns while the "Player" is off doing something else....

[DigoDragon]

So, I'm thinking of getting ESO as one of my steam summer sale presents to myself. Anyone have experience with that? Good, bad?

Oh, the summer sales are on?

Mt wife played some ESO as a beta tester. Despite not knowing what Elder Scrolls' setting is about she said it was pretty decent fun and she would consider going back if she could justify the time sink.

[Keltest]

I'm not all that impressed with the new Warden class yet. The "Ice" warden seems rather meh. So far seems to be all defense and little to no offence. The "healer" warden doesn't have much in the way of offensive or defensive oomph, and the "Pokemon" warden (I choose YOU cliffdiver-chu!) is the only one I haven't tried yet due to lack of open character slots (really...give is a new class with 3 options, but only open up 2 new character slots?).

I do like that they've shortened up the tutorial phase, making it almost impossible to have a character sit in the tutorial area until they are max level, like people would do in the last tutorial. Nobody running in perpetual circles with the attack button glued down to instantly auto-attack new spawns while the "Player" is off doing something else....

Ice is tank. They streamlined the skill lines for the Warden a bunch, so ice abilities are all tank abilities, animal abilities are DPS, and plant abilities are healing.

Wardens make good tanks, great healers, but struggle in the DPS department a bit last I felt the pulse.

As for the alliance locations, they opened that up with One Tamriel. Only Cyrodiil is at all faction locked anymore. Mainland morrowind is part of the Ebonheart Pact, and youll do pact quests there, but anybody can go there. Vvardenfel is nominally pact territory, but between the ashlanders, the Telvani and the various cultists, the Pact really only has any power on the south coast, and that's mostly as a name to drop.

[factotum]

Oh, the summer sales are on?

The GOG summer sale has already started, but the Steam one isn't on yet. However, the Steam one pretty much always starts sometime in June so we know it must be coming up soon.

[LibraryOgre]

A spell I would dearly love to have in the Alteration Tree in Skyrim is a continuous-cast Fortify Carry Weight spell... like Healing and the various damage spells.

It would be a nice way to beef up alteration as you played (just run around encumbered), and be a nice gameplay tweak. It would probably allow fast-travel while encumbered (if it had enough capacity, and unless it was carefully created), but that's not a huge deal for me.

[Triaxx]

Gamersgate has ESO:Morrowind on sale.

[Mando Knight]

A spell I would dearly love to have in the Alteration Tree in Skyrim is a continuous-cast Fortify Carry Weight spell... like Healing and the various damage spells.

It would be a nice way to beef up alteration as you played (just run around encumbered), and be a nice gameplay tweak. It would probably allow fast-travel while encumbered (if it had enough capacity, and unless it was carefully created), but that's not a huge deal for me.

One of the Alteration spells in Apocalypse is Longstride, which does that and boosts your movement speed at the same time (since you can't cast while sprinting).

[Balmas]

Morrowind #10 is up!

Finding the Dwemer puzzle cube was a simple matter of going to where I'd left it the last time I'd explored Arkngthand. However, now that I had jump spells, open spells, and the ability to levitate, I was able to explore a much larger chunk of the ruin. I admit, I'm feeling much more comfortable in my reliance on magic nowadays; between summoning Casper, summoning armor, and creative use of the architecture, the only thing that really posed a threat to me were unexpected magical traps on doors.

Returning to Balmora, I stopped by the Legion Fort and picked up a spell to summon a cuirass. That makes my collection of armor-summoning spells complete; now I just need to pay one of my Mages Guild compatriots to put the effects together in a spell I can cast at a moment's notice, and possibly spend some time practicing the working.

Pepto-bismol Antacidman took the cube from me gladly, and shared a bit about Morrowind's history. The two books I'd read gave me a bit of a background. There are five Great Houses in Morrowind: Hlaalu, Indoril, Redoran, Dres, and Telvanni. When the Empire came a-knockin', Hlaalu was the only one to side with the Imperials. Indoril and Redoran were against, with Telvanni remaining neutral. Initially, it looked like it was going to come to war, until Vivec--one of the godkings of the Tribunal--stepped in with a compromise: Res'dayn would become an imperial province, but it would be largely self-governed and have the ability to maintain their religion.

Antabolis said, though, that there actually used to be a sixth house, House Dagoth. They betrayed the rest of the Great Houses, and were destroyed. He also told me about something--someone?--called a Nerevarine, who the ashlanders believed would be reincarnated and save them from outlanders and internal threats alike. However, an Orc at the Mages guild would know more about that than he would.

Caius was pleased to get the notes I'd taken on the subject, and sent me off to talk to Sharn Gra-Muzgob. The orc, in turn, was only too glad to share her knowledge--provided I did a favor for her. That consisted of finding a cave south of Pelagiad, and fetching some famous necromancer's engraved skull.

I figured, since I was heading to Pelagiad anyway, now was as good a time as any to escort Itermerel there and hopefully get his notes for the Balmora mages guild leader. However, I quickly found myself asking why I was needed, as he was a much more competent combatant than I was, liquidating bandit and assassin alike. Heck, at this point he's escorting me, not the other way around!

We've stopped for the night in Ulumussa. I'm quite pleased with the Fat Lute I've found. We'll push on to Pelagiad in the morning, and then I'll swing back towards the Andrano ancestral tomb once I've dropped off any witnesses.

Oh, the summer sales are on?

Nope, not yet! I just figure that the sales will probably hit sometime next week, so I'm getting some feedback on it early.

[Keltest]

Ah, the Fat Lute. Truly morrowind has no compare in the modern era.