One Piece V: Black Leg Wedding

[ben-zayb]

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One Piece -- Discussion
One Piece II: Piece, Red Piece, Blue Piece.
One Piece III: Cups!
One Piece: Gear IV

Spoiler: New Chapter

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I thought there's something odd about Caramel's too-nice attitude last chapter, so this is quite the surprise that still makes sense to me.

As for possible cannibalism... I'm torn. On one hand, this should bring up more questions as to how else can DF be acquired. Can digesting a DF user (or a specific body part of the DF user) also count as digesting the DF? It may even give weight to those crack theories about BB eating WB's heart. On the other hand, there's also a theory floating around that the underground bosses invited over by BM for the recent tea party matched the looks of the main orphans featured in the flashback's tea party. It's possible that she was left there to be picked up by Cipher Pol, while Caramel tricked the others into leaving the rampaging Linlin.

A middle ground answer could be that BM accidentally ate Caramel, which frightened all the other orphans and made them run away.

[Razade]

Caramel for sure got ate. Makes no sense otherwise. The other kids maybe not.

[LaZodiac]

Caramel for sure got ate. Makes no sense otherwise. The other kids maybe not.

We'll see. I really don't want to think about how messed up accidental cannibalism is, to be honest.

[Sigh]

If true accidental cannibalism is quite possibly one of the darkest things to come out of One Piece, and this is coming from the arc just after all of the backstories in Dressrosa.

[lord_khaine]

No, i simply refuse to believe thats what happend. Thats a little to dark, even for Oda's backstories.

[Razade]

Dudes really? One Piece has had WAY darker things than cannibalism. Child experimentation, children with cancer, actual legit child soldiers. Wapol tries to eat Luffy and says straight up that he was going to eat another person. Let's not forget the Strawhats being buried alive in wax. Or casual genocide. Cannabilism (accidental or otherwise) ranks way lower on the scales than forcing children to kill people. The fact that everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that Caramel was selling orphaned children to be experimented on and turned into weapons to get all up in arms about Mama eating people...

Ya'll need to get over it. This isn't even the first time Mama's eaten people that we know about. Her first introduction she eats people. The animated version has her crunching their bones as sound effects. Even if they're just homies, those are sentient entities with people's souls in them. And she eats Homies without any compunction.

And let's not forget. Oda hinted at a rather...close relationship with Viola and Doflamingo. When asked about it he flat out said he couldn't talk about it because One Piece is for children. Then very explicate says "remember. Dressrosa is a land of passion". I think we can connect the dots. Doflamingo and Viola were doing the horizontal tango and I don't know about you but I don't imagine that it was particularly consensual. Having sex with the guy who enslaved your country, disgraced your family and killed your countrymen in cold blood seems a good threat to hop into bed to me. Am I saying that there's some non-consensual hanky panky going on? No. Is Oda? No. But he sure is screaming it loudly between the lines.

But soft cannibalism. Yeah. That's just a line too far. Sorry. Not even actual soft cannibalism. A depiction of cannibalism. Ya know. As in, in a book. Getting offended by words on a page. Utterly nonsensical.

[Sigh]

I'm pretty sure the only person getting riled up is you my boy. I'm not even going to bother debating your points because it's clear that you're just looking for someone to verbally spar with, but maybe take it down a notch and not assume that we're "offended" at this implied plot point when it's more along the lines of shocked at the implications.

[lord_khaine]

Indeed, as Sigh said.

Or for that matter shocked people believe they were eaten. Mainly since it is indeed darker than any of the other backstories we have had. And also because it does not fit the pattern of BM's eating disorder. She focuses on what she crave when she has found it.

This looks more like the setup for her being sold to the Marine.

[3rdSpawn]

Indeed, as Sigh said.

Or for that matter shocked people believe they were eaten. Mainly since it is indeed darker than any of the other backstories we have had. And also because it does not fit the pattern of BM's eating disorder.

What? It does fit her order. We see her eat all kinds of random things during present time, in the pursuit "the one flavor". She'll eat anything in her path.

Indeed, as Sigh said.
Mainly since it is indeed darker than any of the other backstories we have had.

To adress that one specifically: Come on, what kind of bogus logic is that? Did we both read the same manga? Razarde did give you some examples, but we got even more gruesome things such as the dead classmates of Law strewn across the ground or, in the same arc, a father and his two sons crucified to a wall above flames surrounded by a lynchmob.

Cannibalism is nothing new to One Piece, not even that of alive targets. Heck, even Wapol tried to eat various people alive! Waving away such possible developements based on "it's not just", is the literal equivalent of plugging your ears with your fingers and singing "lalalala I don't want to hear" out loud to drown out something you don't like.

This looks more like the setup for her being sold to the Marine.

Except the marines shouldn't know much about her at all. Caramel certainl shouldn't be stupid enough to make her wares' location known to the CP0 before getting any money, especially since she now was without the protective cover of Elbarf. She seems like a hardboiled lady, very professional, so I can't see her make a beginners mistake like that.

There's also other hints that BM likely was on her own ever since, for example, the entire landscape of the sheeps house looks almost identical to a landscape on Tottoland (barring faces on hill and the giant castle in the background). It's more than fitting that BM would set up HQ at such place.

[Sigh]

I know I said I wouldn't but I'd like to bring up the counterpoint with regards to bringing up Wapol that the dude doesn't exactly fit the bill of the viewer being able to take him seriously, it's like having a plot point appear in Spongebob and having a similar plot point appear in Attack on Titan and expecting us as the audience to give both situations the same level of gravitas.

[Razade]

I know I said I wouldn't but I'd like to bring up the counterpoint with regards to bringing up Wapol that the dude doesn't exactly fit the bill of the viewer being able to take him seriously, it's like having a plot point appear in Spongebob and having a similar plot point appear in Attack on Titan and expecting us as the audience to give both situations the same level of gravitas.

So...cannibalism is fine if you're silly with it. Gotcha.

[lord_khaine]

What? It does fit her order. We see her eat all kinds of random things during present time, in the pursuit "the one flavor". She'll eat anything in her path.

Yes.. and she also stops putting random things into her mouth as soon as she has found the flavor.

To adress that one specifically: Come on, what kind of bogus logic is that? Did we both read the same manga? Razarde did give you some examples, but we got even more gruesome things such as the dead classmates of Law strewn across the ground or, in the same arc, a father and his two sons crucified to a wall above flames surrounded by a lynchmob.

Cannibalism is nothing new to One Piece, not even that of alive targets. Heck, even Wapol tried to eat various people alive! Waving away such possible developements based on "it's not just", is the literal equivalent of plugging your ears with your fingers and singing "lalalala I don't want to hear" out loud to drown out something you don't like.

Oh.. so its bogus logic when you disagree with it? or do you have a better definition?
And else, i did not bother reading Razarde's tirade, but i do have an excellent memory. So No, when i say its darker than any of the other backstories then it is indeed because i think it is much darker than those events.
For that matter, in my eyes, when you got 2 different interpretations of a given event, and no hard evidence for either of them, then i personally think its tinfoil hat style to not only pick the one most at odds with the story's general style, but also try to ridicule those that dare disagree with your notion of what is the "obvious answer"

Though if you cant see the difference between accidentially eating your own friends, and Wapol trying to eat his enemies, then i cant see how we can have a constructive dialog about this anyway.

Except the marines shouldn't know much about her at all. Caramel certainl shouldn't be stupid enough to make her wares' location known to the CP0 before getting any money, especially since she now was without the protective cover of Elbarf. She seems like a hardboiled lady, very professional, so I can't see her make a beginners mistake like that.

We dont know if she had at that point already been given a very large amount of money. And that it was for leaving Linlin alone somewhere and tell them where.

There's also other hints that BM likely was on her own ever since, for example, the entire landscape of the sheeps house looks almost identical to a landscape on Tottoland (barring faces on hill and the giant castle in the background). It's more than fitting that BM would set up HQ at such place.

Thats not a hint towards anything. Linlin has 30-40 blank years right now. You cant use landscape simularity of her being alone after this. When its just as likely she returns her as an adult.

[3rdSpawn]

Yes.. and she also stops putting random things into her mouth as soon as she has found the flavor.

Actually no, because then she wouldn't have chomped down on the table and chairs, wouldn't she? Getting the taste is one half of satisfying her carvings, part 2 is still the eating.

Oh.. so its bogus logic when you disagree with it? or do you have a better definition?
And else, i did not bother reading Razarde's tirade, but i do have an excellent memory. So No, when i say its darker than any of the other backstories then it is indeed because i think it is much darker than those events.

Memory has nothing to do with subjective judgements on various attributes you can ascribe to a story-arc.

For that matter, in my eyes, when you got 2 different interpretations of a given event, and no hard evidence for either of them, then i personally think its tinfoil hat style to not only pick the one most at odds with the story's general style, but also try to ridicule those that dare disagree with your notion of what is the "obvious answer".

Having written this yourself, you do realize the irony? You see, I'm more annoyed about the fact that people are happily willing to slam down one theory "just because", not the fact that there could be different possible interpretations.

Though if you cant see the difference between accidentially eating your own friends, and Wapol trying to eat his enemies, then i cant see how we can have a constructive dialog about this anyway.

Again, eating a live creature because you wanto to kill them vs eating a live creature on accident... it's heavily subjective which one you'd consider worse. Doesn't change the fact that both deal with live cannibalism.

We dont know if she had at that point already been given a very large amount of money. And that it was for leaving Linlin alone somewhere and tell them where.

Okay. While it's still a bit to careless to sell the goods at the actual warehouse so to speak, I do get your reasoning there.

Thats not a hint towards anything. Linlin has 30-40 blank years right now. You cant use landscape simularity of her being alone after this. When its just as likely she returns her as an adult.

Wouldn't it be weird/difficult for her to set up HQ at a place known by the Marines/World Gov?

[Sigh]

So...cannibalism is fine if you're silly with it. Gotcha.

If you're unable to understand why people wouldn't take one turn of events as seriously as the other with wildly different presentations present then I honestly don't know what to tell you. I refer back to my previous analogy, and if that doesn't at least provide you some insight into what seems like pretty much everyone else's mindset on this then have fun not being able to understand anyone else's perspective.

[Razade]

I understand your perspective. I just think it's ridiculous and arbitrary. Me not caring about your distinction doesn't mean I can't adopt or view other peoples mindsets. There's just no point when they're flawed.

You all prepare to be disappointed though. Spoilers are out and it's not looking good for the "we can't handle cannibalism when it's shown in a serious manner" crowd. Wish I had Smoothe's powers so I could taste people's tears.

[LaZodiac]

I understand your perspective. I just think it's ridiculous and arbitrary. Me not caring about your distinction doesn't mean I can't adopt or view other peoples mindsets. There's just no point when they're flawed.

You all prepare to be disappointed though. Spoilers are out and it's not looking good for the "we can't handle cannibalism when it's shown in a serious manner" crowd. Wish I had Smoothe's powers so I could taste people's tears.

It's not that people can't handle it, we're just commenting on it being kinda gross. You're kind of ridiculous.

[3rdSpawn]

It's not that people can't handle it, we're just commenting on it being kinda gross. You're kind of ridiculous.

You did just say it's gross, Sigh and Lord_Khain did argume for there not being a possibility that it actually happened.

You all prepare to be disappointed though. Spoilers are out and it's not looking good for the "we can't handle cannibalism when it's shown in a serious manner" crowd. Wish I had Smoothe's powers so I could taste people's tears.

Well that's the end of the cannibalism-denying then. Can you please post a source just to make sure?? I guess that will teach people to brush aside possibilities based on personal sensibilities.

[Razade]

It's not that people can't handle it, we're just commenting on it being kinda gross. You're kind of ridiculous.

I think it's kinda ridiculous getting worked up over a source of fiction in such a visceral way. It's not real cannibalism, it's just ink on a page.

You did just say it's gross, Sigh and Lord_Khain did argume for there not being a possibility that it actually happened.

Don't ask for consistency or logic.

Well that's the end of the cannibalism-denying then. Can you please post a source just to make sure?? I guess that will teach people to brush aside possibilities based on personal sensibilities.

Yeah, can do. I'll put it in a spoiler tag.

Spoiler: Don't proceed unless you wanna ruin the chapter for yourself

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Spoiler: For Real. Get out of here

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Link.

[LaZodiac]

I think it's kinda ridiculous getting worked up over a source of fiction in such a visceral way. It's not real cannibalism, it's just ink on a page.

"It's not real it's just ink on a page" is not in any shape or form a good defense.

[Razade]

Yeah, you've said that before but never really explained how that's the case. Cannibalism in a book isn't actually cannibalism. It's not a simulation of cannibalism. Even if it's relating events that actually occurred, it's still not either of the first two. I'd object to the actual event in question depending on what it is but I'd never object or "find it gross" when I'm just reading it. All it is, as said before, is ink on a page. Or in this case depictions of the act which are ink on a page. No one actually got hurt, no one actually got eaten. It's not objectionable. It's not real.

[LaZodiac]

Yeah, you've said that before but never really explained how that's the case. Cannibalism in a book isn't actually cannibalism. It's not a simulation of cannibalism. Even if it's relating events that actually occurred, it's still not either of the first two. I'd object to the actual event in question (depending...I'm not actually opposed to people eating already dead people if they're in a situation where not doing so would kill them for example) but never object or "find it gross" when I'm just reading it. All it is, as said before, is ink on a page. Or in this case depictions of the act which are ink on a page. No one actually got hurt, no one actually got eaten. It's not objectionable. It's not real.

I can't actually explain the finer details of why this is stupid without going into "not for this board" territory, so I'm dropping this conversation.

[Razade]

Oh, feel free to PM me or email me. I'm dying to hear the refutation really. After all, the worst thing that happens is I change my mind.

[3rdSpawn]

I can't actually explain the finer details of why this is stupid without going into "not for this board" territory, so I'm dropping this conversation.

would you mind forking that message to me as well, please? I won't bother you 2 by joining the conversation but I'd really like to hear that reasoning. You know, broadening my personal horizon and all that.

Well chapter is out, so there's lot of cooler things to discuss now.

For example, Prometheus and Zeus have been with Big Mom since her childhood, but we know that homies take lifeforce to create and it was assumed that even if it's parts of the user's soul that cost must be paid. But if life wasn't a concern for BM, why even collect years from other people? So there must be a hard limit or downside how many homies she can create from her soul.

BM seems fairly young when we see her conquer a city with them, so P&Z easily could be in their 60s as well. Either BM has an incredible long lifespawn or she's playing on time.

Or now that we know that she ate the kids and caramel, can you gain a person's power by eating them alive? How does this relate to Blackbeard?

And that all is before going on about the destroyed KX launchers and what that will mean for the developements of the story.

[Braininthejar2]

And so the obvious flaw in the plan becomes apparent - don't bet your whole plan on a big mirror, if your target can scream with enough power to knock people sensless...

[Kato]

Do we need to turn this discussion so sour?

Anyway, new chapter. First half is kind of a strange surprise, second not so much. Also: German technique? I guess we will see where this leads...

[lord_khaine]

Well it is kinda nice to see that even in the face of catastrophic failure team "evil" still manages to stick together in their tactical withdrawal.

And this does also leave new evidence towards that what Blackbeard did might not require anything else besides specific knowledge. Perhaps he ate WB's heart or something like that.

[Braininthejar2]

Well it is kinda nice to see that even in the face of catastrophic failure team "evil" still manages to stick together in their tactical withdrawal.

And this does also leave new evidence towards that what Blackbeard did might not require anything else besides specific knowledge. Perhaps he ate WB's heart or something like that.

Perhaps he ate an apple, and the rest was just for show? He just needed to know how a tremor-tremor power reincarnates, and have a compatible fruit in his pocket.

[3rdSpawn]

Well it is kinda nice to see that even in the face of catastrophic failure team "evil" still manages to stick together in their tactical withdrawal.

And this does also leave new evidence towards that what Blackbeard did might not require anything else besides specific knowledge. Perhaps he ate WB's heart or something like that.

Bege seems to be a man of his word, or maybe he just knows that he's not in the position to turn down any support of Luffy and friends.

One way of getting a DF power after the original user dies needs you to at least know and prepare a kind of fruit it will enter. The weirder part comes from Blackbeard beign able to wield 2 powers at once, which was attributed to his "special anatomy" by Marco.

[lord_khaine]

Perhaps he ate an apple, and the rest was just for show? He just needed to know how a tremor-tremor power reincarnates, and have a compatible fruit in his pocket.

Do we have anything official on how DF's reincarnate though? We know that they do, but is it random, or are there rules and such to that?

Bege seems to be a man of his word, or maybe he just knows that he's not in the position to turn down any support of Luffy and friends.

Well i guess they really do need each other more than ever now. Especially since the escape plan got screwed up. And they really need to hurry before Big Mom wakes up. All evidence now points to that she is still far out of Luffy's weight class.

One way of getting a DF power after the original user dies needs you to at least know and prepare a kind of fruit it will enter. The weirder part comes from Blackbeard beign able to wield 2 powers at once, which was attributed to his "special anatomy" by Marco.

I do have doubt about the relevance of Marco's knowlede on the subject though. Especially since BB were not a DF user while he were part of WB's crew.

[LaZodiac]

Do we have anything official on how DF's reincarnate though? We know that they do, but is it random, or are there rules and such to that?

We know that when a fruit user quote unquote dies, a fruit that is nearby becomes the devil fruit for that power. We saw that on Punk Hazard. My best guess it's "whatever fruit is closet becomes the proper fruit".

Anyway, this was a good chapter!

Spoiler

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It's pretty safe to say Big Mom did eat them, good lord. Then she gets manipulated into becoming a pirate with big dreams, which is...kind of sweet but also sad. Regarding Homies and the life force and stuff, given she DOES take life force from people, it's very likely that she's got enough life force in her she can make basically anything into a Homie without much effort, and then they just sustain themselves on that life, possibly being tied into her own life force proper since they ARE her.