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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: One Piece V: Black Leg Wedding

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Do we have anything official on how DF's reincarnate though? We know that they do, but is it random, or are there rules and such to that?
    We also know that there's an encyclopedia the has info on many known devil fruits and it's possible to identify the ability a fruit gives by their shape if it's already documented. That's the reason why Blackbeard knew about the Yami Yami no Mi and how it looked, or why Diez Barrel knew that he was in the possession of the Ope Ope no Mi.

    Ceasar told his underlings to get close to Smiley with a sack full of apples, but they had no idea why he ordered them to do this. Then when Smiley died, one of the apples did morph into a devil fruit, showing that his power had passed on.
    Since we know that the shape of a fruit has to stay the same across multiple reincarnations, that also must mean that it will always seek out a very specific fruit. Ceasar has quite a knowledge about Devil Fruits, so it makes sense for him to know this. The power reincarnating in anoher fruit is a common enough knowledge, as even a henchman of Dofflamingo knew enough to explain it to Luffy and Franky on Dressrosa. (Jesus Burgess also was seen traveling Dressrosa with a bundle wrapped around his back but we never got to see its contents. Given how Blackbeards crew is actively hunting for DF users, he might as well have know.)

    There's exists a fairly good ruleset by now, but we'll have to wait until Vegapunk enters the stage to explain such oddities like inanimate objects eating evil fruits (like Lassoo or Funkfreed).

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Well i guess they really do need each other more than ever now. Especially since the escape plan got screwed up. And they really need to hurry before Big Mom wakes up. All evidence now points to that she is still far out of Luffy's weight class.
    We've got many possiblities, but my bet is on the Vinsmokes being the wildcard. Especially Reiju, POISON Pink could have quite the solution to keep the plan going.

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    I do have doubt about the relevance of Marco's knowlede on the subject though. Especially since BB were not a DF user while he were part of WB's crew.
    Blackbeard was with them for like 30 years. He also was known as fairly powerful pirate even before betraying Whitebeard. It would make sense for someone like Marco knowing a lot about him.

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    Default Re: One Piece V: Black Leg Wedding

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Do we have anything official on how DF's reincarnate though? We know that they do, but is it random, or are there rules and such to that?
    We have seen that it reincarnates right away in a nearby fruit as soon as Smily dies way back on Punk Hazard, so we know that proximity is probably a factor and that it doesn't need to grow from scratch. That could explain how Doflamingo got Ace's fruit, as he was in Marineford at the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    I do have doubt about the relevance of Marco's knowlede on the subject though. Especially since BB were not a DF user while he were part of WB's crew.
    I always thought that the special anatomy bit was about BB's Darkness fruit. That just like how he can be hurt by normal attacks and has the pull of a Black Hole he just can't explode like another DF user would.
    Last edited by Gray Mage; 2017-06-08 at 08:54 AM.


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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: One Piece V: Black Leg Wedding

    We have seen that it reincarnates right away in a nearby fruit as soon as Smily dies way back on Punk Hazard, so we know that proximity is probably a factor and that it doesn't need to grow from scratch. That could explain how Doflamingo got Ace's fruit, as he was in Marineford at the time.
    Alright thanks so there is indeed nothing official on the matter. Only theory and speculations about whats really going on.

    Though all the same it is a really good theory, with a lot of observations supporting it. But it is also something that could have been because of Ceasars science hijacking the regular process. The jump we observed with Smily could have been because it was one of his artificial devil fruits. Or because he had specifically prepared the apples.

    But i have trouble believing that just having a apple nearby is enough to catch the Mera Mera fruit. Mainly because its highly unlike the WG and Marines to slip up like that, and not execute Ace on top of a wagonload fruit.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: One Piece V: Black Leg Wedding

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Alright thanks so there is indeed nothing official on the matter. Only theory and speculations about whats really going on.

    Though all the same it is a really good theory, with a lot of observations supporting it. But it is also something that could have been because of Ceasars science hijacking the regular process. The jump we observed with Smily could have been because it was one of his artificial devil fruits. Or because he had specifically prepared the apples.

    But i have trouble believing that just having a apple nearby is enough to catch the Mera Mera fruit. Mainly because its highly unlike the WG and Marines to slip up like that, and not execute Ace on top of a wagonload fruit.
    I actually didn't realize that there was a confusion about where Blackbeard got the power from. To me I thought the whole mystery was how he was able to have two of them without dieing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devonix View Post
    I actually didn't realize that there was a confusion about where Blackbeard got the power from. To me I thought the whole mystery was how he was able to have two of them without dieing.
    Wasn't a mystery either. They explicitly say it has something to do with his biology.

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    Default Re: One Piece V: Black Leg Wedding

    When it happened it was neither known DF got reincarnated nor was there a statement about how he could handle two.
    Yeah, at some point someone said it was because of his biology by now. But that's kind of an unsatisfying answer to me. My guess it might be due to being a D but that's neither original nor supported in any way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kato View Post
    When it happened it was neither known DF got reincarnated nor was there a statement about how he could handle two.
    Yeah, at some point someone said it was because of his biology by now. But that's kind of an unsatisfying answer to me. My guess it might be due to being a D but that's neither original nor supported in any way.
    They talk about how Devil Fruits get reincarnated as early as Enis Lobby. And they talk about Blackbeard's biology in the War at Marineford. Which is when he gets his second. Literally in the chapter Whitebeard dies they talk about it. It's Marco who mentions "Atypical body structure" and that the other Whitebeard pirates should "be aware of this fact as well".
    Last edited by Razade; 2017-06-09 at 04:33 AM.

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    Default Re: One Piece V: Black Leg Wedding

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Though all the same it is a really good theory, with a lot of observations supporting it. But it is also something that could have been because of Ceasars science hijacking the regular process. The jump we observed with Smily could have been because it was one of his artificial devil fruits. Or because he had specifically prepared the apples.
    Smiley is an true Zoan user. He's introduced as such by his textbox (no reason for Oda to lie about that in introductions and it's consistent with other devil fruit users). I agree on the fact that the applese might have been prepared somehow, which is where currently unknown specifcs come into play. The devil fruit could easily require a fruit of a very specific weight, state of ripeness, size etc. As a set of rule we know that it's not random, otherwise Ceasar couldn't have planned for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    But i have trouble believing that just having a apple nearby is enough to catch the Mera Mera fruit. Mainly because its highly unlike the WG and Marines to slip up like that, and not execute Ace on top of a wagonload fruit.
    The Mera Mera no Mi is a dragon fruit.
    Referencing what I wrote above, knowing how it works doesn't mean you can effectively pull it off as well.

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: One Piece V: Black Leg Wedding

    Wasn't a mystery either. They explicitly say it has something to do with his biology.
    Perhaps he has two hearts?

    But i have trouble believing that just having a apple nearby is enough to catch the Mera Mera fruit. Mainly because its highly unlike the WG and Marines to slip up like that, and not execute Ace on top of a wagonload fruit.
    Perhaps they did have a fruit nearby. But then Whitebeard tilted the island and things didn't go as planned. Or all went as planned, but then the fruit went to Doflamingo, because Doflamingo.
    Last edited by Braininthejar2; 2017-06-09 at 05:17 AM.

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    Smiley is an true Zoan user. He's introduced as such by his textbox (no reason for Oda to lie about that in introductions and it's consistent with other devil fruit users). I agree on the fact that the applese might have been prepared somehow, which is where currently unknown specifcs come into play. The devil fruit could easily require a fruit of a very specific weight, state of ripeness, size etc. As a set of rule we know that it's not random, otherwise Ceasar couldn't have planned for it.
    Do we have any evidence to point towards artificial zoan fruits not being introduced in the same manner?
    And well, we also know its not completely fixed, or else Ceasar would not have needed bags of apples. Only a single one within the exact criteria. But can just be that several bags of apples in close proximity, with no other apples within hundreds of miles was enough to press the odds of in Ceasars favor.

    The Mera Mera no Mi is a dragon fruit.
    Referencing what I wrote above, knowing how it works doesn't mean you can effectively pull it off as well.
    No its an elemental logia? i looked it up.
    And if anyone should be able to pull it off then it would need to be the marine. They got Vegapunk, who more or less pionered the majority of DF research.

    Perhaps he has two hearts?
    Well it does need to be something physical, or else the WB pirates should not know about it.

    Perhaps they did have a fruit nearby. But then Whitebeard tilted the island and things didn't go as planned. Or all went as planned, but then the fruit went to Doflamingo, because Doflamingo.
    The theft of a Logia class fruit is just one of the things im not certain Doflamingo should be able to get away with.
    The core strenght of the entire marine navy more or less rest on the 3 elemental logia weilders they got.
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    Default Re: One Piece V: Black Leg Wedding

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    No its an elemental logia? i looked it up.
    I think this is what they were referring to, compared to how Caesar was using apples for another type of Devil's Fruit.

    It seems correcting misunderstandings like this is the main thing I do on this forum. :P As for my own ideas on One Piece, it indeed seems like the powers of a fruit can be inherited by consuming the user or some specific part of them, which is actually fairly dark. Seid ihr das Essen? Nein, wir sind die Jäger.
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    Default Re: One Piece V: Black Leg Wedding

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    Wasn't a mystery either. They explicitly say it has something to do with his biology.
    They do not. Marco SUSPECTS it is because of that, but we have no real reason to assume he's accurate. We'll find out later, and yes it'll probably be that he is right, but we've never been given a 100% confirmation on why he can hold two devil fruits. It could be his "atypical body structure" that Marco alluded to, it might be something completely different that he's hiding. We won't actually KNOW yet.


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    I think this is what they were referring to, compared to how Caesar was using apples for another type of Devil's Fruit.

    It seems correcting misunderstandings like this is the main thing I do on this forum. :P As for my own ideas on One Piece, it indeed seems like the powers of a fruit can be inherited by consuming the user or some specific part of them, which is actually fairly dark. Seid ihr das Essen? Nein, wir sind die Jäger.
    Ah alright.. dam that fruit looks freaky. Its hard to believe its actually real.

    For that matter, yeah it does indeed look like OP suddenly took a rather dark turn, even though i think its kinda dumb myself. At this point it also continues to be impossible to guess what BB actually did to steal the earthquake fruit.

    They do not. Marco SUSPECTS it is because of that, but we have no real reason to assume he's accurate. We'll find out later, and yes it'll probably be that he is right, but we've never been given a 100% confirmation on why he can hold two devil fruits. It could be his "atypical body structure" that Marco alluded to, it might be something completely different that he's hiding. We won't actually KNOW yet.
    It could be something as simple as secret knowlede passed down the D line. That some fruits actually goes with each other without blowing up.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: One Piece V: Black Leg Wedding

    About BB there's also the Cerberus theory, that although I don't like very much has been foreshadowed before.


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    Default Re: One Piece V: Black Leg Wedding

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Mage View Post
    About BB there's also the Cerberus theory, that although I don't like very much has been foreshadowed before.
    I feel like it's because of his Darkness fruit power. It's an all encompassing void.


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    Default Re: One Piece V: Black Leg Wedding

    The theft of a Logia class fruit is just one of the things im not certain Doflamingo should be able to get away with.
    The core strenght of the entire marine navy more or less rest on the 3 elemental logia weilders they got.
    He's got away with blackmailing the WG to help him with his schemes, over the admirals' heads. And he shanked Moria after the battle, seemingly at WG request. If someone could get away with stealing a logia fruit, it was him.

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    Default Re: One Piece V: Black Leg Wedding

    He's got away with blackmailing the WG to help him with his schemes, over the admirals' heads. And he shanked Moria after the battle, seemingly at WG request. If someone could get away with stealing a logia fruit, it was him.
    Well ganking Moria just makes him the WG's errant boy. And getting a fake newspaper made is honestly minor compared to a logia fruit that kingdoms fight over.
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    Default Re: One Piece V: Black Leg Wedding

    the 'fake newspaper' was casually undermining the credibility of the biggest news network in the world.

    And shanking Moria was casually undermining the core of the shichibukai deal.

    He makes the decision in one, and serves as a 'lackey' in the other, but both show how important he is.
    Last edited by Braininthejar2; 2017-06-10 at 07:06 AM.

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    I think it would have a much bigger risk of undermining said news network, if it seemed like it had any meaningful competition. But without that the damage to its credibility should be limited, certainly no way near the sheer value of an elemental Logia.

    Shanking Morai meanwhile should not have had any actual effect had it gone as planned. Moria died fighting the WB pirates. End of story, nothing to see here.
    That just means the WG trust Flamingo enough to let him deal with their dirty laundry.
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    Considering that they all knew who was going to be executed from the start I feel like we're missing the possibility that Doflamingo didn't even necessarily need to steal the fruit himself from the WG in order to get it. Who's to say that he didn't keep a ship of his own near by Marineford with a bunch of fruit compatible with the Mera Mera onboard unbeknownst to the WG, and was just betting on the odds that the fruit would redirect to the ones he had instead of any of the fruits on the island?

    That sounds, to me, like something Doflamingo would totally do and is perfectly feasible IMO.

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    That sounds, to me, like something Doflamingo would totally do and is perfectly feasible IMO.
    Yeah alright, i find it highly unlikely that the WG is ignorant of how DF transfer works.
    But it does sound reasonable if Ceasar is the leading expert in the area, and able to divert the process somehow.

    And that Flamingo could get a ship full of fruit into suitable position.
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    in other news, there is a whole island that knows what really happened - and anyway Big Mom has enough clues to piece the story together. Is she really that dumb, or has she discovered the truth, but keeps repressing it?

    Do you think Pudding has messed with her head to help her not realise it?

    Because in keeping with Oda's "villains don't get killed, so they can live and see their dreams shattered" mode of operation, someone telling her the truth in the face would be the most cruel and devastating punchline.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Braininthejar2 View Post
    in other news, there is a whole island that knows what really happened - and anyway Big Mom has enough clues to piece the story together. Is she really that dumb, or has she discovered the truth, but keeps repressing it?

    Do you think Pudding has messed with her head to help her not realise it?

    Because in keeping with Oda's "villains don't get killed, so they can live and see their dreams shattered" mode of operation, someone telling her the truth in the face would be the most cruel and devastating punchline.
    Something I'm starting to get the sense of more and more as this arc goes on is that while Big Mom is a master strategist, when it comes to actual interpersonal skills like dealing with her crew, her rampages, and "making offers" with various islands, they all have a bit of an undercurrent of very primal desires. Even for One Piece standards, Big Mom is a remarkably simpleheaded woman, one who believes implicitly the words of those who she trusts and takes the analogies of those around her very literally. At age 6 she had no reason to not believe Streusen at face value, and she's also been shown to be airheaded enough to not even notice/care when/if one of her children is dead unless they're vitally important to her plans.

    So basically high Int, middling Cha, and low Wis. Much like how Luffy is High Cha, middling Wis, and low Int.

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    Default Re: One Piece V: Black Leg Wedding

    Theory time: Streusen is, quite possibly, the father of Perospero (younger Streusen has very similar facial features when compared to Perospero); if this is the case, then he is apparently the only one of Big Mom's husbands (that we know of) who is exempt from how she usually treats her spouses. Assuming that he was Lin Lin's first husband, which is likely, given how the timeline would have to play out, it is possible her lax attitude towards her other husbands is due to her still valuing the relationship her first one, who is still a vital member of her crew. It would certainly be in line with the mix of mental derangement and apparent cunning she has been depicted as having, with her discarding her 'used' husbands as a show of affection towards the one who helped her get off the ground.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigh View Post
    Something I'm starting to get the sense of more and more as this arc goes on is that while Big Mom is a master strategist, when it comes to actual interpersonal skills like dealing with her crew, her rampages, and "making offers" with various islands, they all have a bit of an undercurrent of very primal desires. Even for One Piece standards, Big Mom is a remarkably simpleheaded woman, one who believes implicitly the words of those who she trusts and takes the analogies of those around her very literally. At age 6 she had no reason to not believe Streusen at face value, and she's also been shown to be airheaded enough to not even notice/care when/if one of her children is dead unless they're vitally important to her plans.

    So basically high Int, middling Cha, and low Wis. Much like how Luffy is High Cha, middling Wis, and low Int.
    I wouldn't saw that she's simpleheaded, so much as, well, childish. Even discounting the apparent disorder she has had since she was young, she apparently hasn't been defeated once in her life (at the very least, her familiars apparently were never damaged until Brook fought her, and her reputation for her apparent invulnerability had to come from somewhere) and has a ungodly range of powers that allows her to rip out the souls of those she doesn't like and create a entire nation populated by talking objects that basicly rely on her own whims to survive. With that much personal power, it's more surprising that she isn't more deranged then she actually is, given that she had the personal power to devastate a kingdom when she was, like, ten, apparently. She's also given to flights of apparent fancy, given how she seemed amused enough by Luffy on Fishman Island to give the place leniency in exchange for focusing on him and allowed Pedro to live after he removed one of his eyes. When she's in a good mood, such as at the Tea Party, she's as personable as any person could reasonably be, but she's also a complete sadist and is notably rather self-centered. In other words, Big Mom is basicly a Big Kid.

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    Default Re: One Piece V: Black Leg Wedding

    New chapter.

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    Things are mostly going downhill for the assassins.
    The Germa join them and they have an effing transformation sequence. And it seems a stance.
    But even then they are forced to retreat inside großer Vater. And then things get worse because mom wakes up and is pissed...
    Really curious how this will end.
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    Default Re: One Piece V: Black Leg Wedding

    Quote Originally Posted by Kato View Post
    New chapter.

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    Things are mostly going downhill for the assassins.
    The Germa join them and they have an effing transformation sequence. And it seems a stance.
    But even then they are forced to retreat inside großer Vater. And then things get worse because mom wakes up and is pissed...
    Really curious how this will end.
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    I'm so glad they have a Power Ranger stance. God bless these evil nazi-esque super villains (what a thing to say).

    I doubt it's a proper translation, but "This castle is LITERALLY ME" is such a good line. But yeah no I expect things to end pretty poorly for our heroes, who'll only escape with their lives because of Brooke's soul cutting on Prometheus causing a distraction. He DID say that wound Brooke gave him still itches weirdly, after all.

    And of course it's time for everyone's favorite phrase: One Piece Will Be Off Next Week!


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    Now, I want to preface this with acknowledging that I do not know everything that has happened in one piece, so if I say something stupid, my apologies, but im curious what kind of grand finale arc you guys think there will be?

    If I could envision what i would like to see, it would basically be marineford 2.0 only Gear 4 awakened Luffy (plus any other power ups that may happen before then) and the straw hats replacing whitebeard and his crew as the big deals. After all this time and effort, luffy has defeated or suborned the warlords, has crushed or allied with the pirate emperors, and in the mean time, the marines have gotten bad. With Akainu as the fleet admiral, they have become draconian, vicious, and heartless in their pursuit of so called "justice" Luffy literally calls him out. "I will be at such and such location at (insert reasonable time frame for the rest of my post to happen) Bring everything you have, because I mean to smash it AND you." This news of course echos all over the world. It reaches everywhere because this is shaping up to be a war to end all wars. When the battle starts, luffy and his crew are of course outnumbered drastically. But then, just about everyone from first arc to last that luffy and crew have interacted with, saved, inspired, befriended, etc etc etc, start showing up. Everyone from the people luffy aided at arlong park, to the citizens of dressrosa, every pirate crew, everyone, they show up and join the battle. I also can see the marines themselves splitting during this. Garp, coby, akoji, fujitora, they have all become sickened with what the marines have become, and they take a sizeable portion of the fleet with them who all feel the same way.

    The whole point of it is to let us see how much stronger everyone else has become in the intervening years. Lots of room for scenes of epic deeds from someone who we havent seen since before gear second was even a thing that existed. Im pretty sure Oda has stated the final battle is going to make marineford look tiny in comparison, so this sort of thing makes sense. I think that would also show luffy taking up the reins of pirate king in the way he would want it. Not by having control of a massive fleet, or through careful alliances, but by general acclaim as large portions of the world back him up out of friendship and loyalty, without even being asked. He smashes the vile version of the marines, and leaves the splintered part that I mentioned behind to try and rebuild from the ashes. After all, its not like he wants to rule, he just wants to live free and continue his adventure. But as always with him, there are some things he cant let stand.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
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    I'm so glad they have a Power Ranger stance. God bless these evil nazi-esque super villains (what a thing to say).

    I doubt it's a proper translation, but "This castle is LITERALLY ME" is such a good line. But yeah no I expect things to end pretty poorly for our heroes, who'll only escape with their lives because of Brooke's soul cutting on Prometheus causing a distraction. He DID say that wound Brooke gave him still itches weirdly, after all.

    And of course it's time for everyone's favorite phrase: One Piece Will Be Off Next Week!
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    The chest that that guy is trying to switch out has a bomb in it doesn't it? I'm expecting that to go off and end the battle.

  29. - Top - End - #59
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    lord_khaine's Avatar

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    Default Re: One Piece V: Black Leg Wedding

    Now, I want to preface this with acknowledging that I do not know everything that has happened in one piece, so if I say something stupid, my apologies, but im curious what kind of grand finale arc you guys think there will be?
    That is really unlike Luffy though. He is not a revolutionary. And he is not a Hero. Thats his father. But Luffy is not going to declare war on the WG. If he destroyes them, then it will be though whatever secret he finds at Raftel, and the choice he makes afterwards.

    Currently the story is shaping up to make BB the final fight in Luffy's story. Because in a lot of ways he is like a evil Luffy, that mirrors his journey. BB also believes in following your dreams and your heart. And like Luffy he dont really care about other peoples laws or rules.
    He has also slowly been building his strenght and followers up, and will aim for the title of pirate king.

    Another potential choice for last fight is the Gorosei. The 5 elders who runs the WG and the navy. There are evidence supporting that they are extremely old, and have kept themselves alive with the use of Bonnie's DF.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  30. - Top - End - #60
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    Traab's Avatar

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    Default Re: One Piece V: Black Leg Wedding

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    That is really unlike Luffy though. He is not a revolutionary. And he is not a Hero. Thats his father. But Luffy is not going to declare war on the WG. If he destroyes them, then it will be though whatever secret he finds at Raftel, and the choice he makes afterwards.

    Currently the story is shaping up to make BB the final fight in Luffy's story. Because in a lot of ways he is like a evil Luffy, that mirrors his journey. BB also believes in following your dreams and your heart. And like Luffy he dont really care about other peoples laws or rules.
    He has also slowly been building his strenght and followers up, and will aim for the title of pirate king.

    Another potential choice for last fight is the Gorosei. The 5 elders who runs the WG and the navy. There are evidence supporting that they are extremely old, and have kept themselves alive with the use of Bonnie's DF.
    Now this is true, he isnt a revolutionary as such, he isnt the type to think abstractly, or long term really, yet I could post a long list of events where luffy has stood up and put down a bad guy who is crushing those around him. All it would take is him learning the marines are going around oppressing those aforementioned friends for him to stand up, and deliver a message like this. I admit, I sorta forgot about BB though. Of course, that doesnt mean he wouldnt be involved at the end. A grand free for all with multiple sides all attacking each other at a big showdown.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

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