One Piece V: Black Leg Wedding

[lord_khaine]

Now this is true, he isnt a revolutionary as such, he isnt the type to think abstractly, or long term really, yet I could post a long list of events where luffy has stood up and put down a bad guy who is crushing those around him. All it would take is him learning the marines are going around oppressing those aforementioned friends for him to stand up, and deliver a message like this. I admit, I sorta forgot about BB though. Of course, that doesnt mean he wouldnt be involved at the end. A grand free for all with multiple sides all attacking each other at a big showdown.

Then he would go for those specific Marines that were oppressing his friends. And specifically beat them up. That would more or less fit the pattern of every bad guy he has crushed so far. Yet he has already seen enough oppresion and horrible things to last most people a lifetime. Yet he is still following his own dream of becomming pirate king.

[Traab]

Then he would go for those specific Marines that were oppressing his friends. And specifically beat them up. That would more or less fit the pattern of every bad guy he has crushed so far. Yet he has already seen enough oppresion and horrible things to last most people a lifetime. Yet he is still following his own dream of becomming pirate king.

He didnt just beat up hodys men, he went after the leader himself. If he gets word that mister hot under the collar fleet admiral is crushing his friends somewhere, I dont think he would stop at just beating up that one ship. He would go for the top, which means facing the entire fleet if needed. Im not saying it WILL work out that way, im just saying it wouldnt exactly be outside the realm of the possible. He has a habit of making large public declarations about his intent to fight insanely powerful people or groups.

[ben-zayb]

What I like most about this chapter is how Bege nonchalantly mentions his death, and focusing more on its consequence to his allies. The possibly implied lack of fear of death makes perfect sense, considering his infamy for always aiming at top dog's head.

My sentai-radar was pinging hard back when the Vinsmokes had their color-coded introduction, so I'm quite happy Oda went through with it.

[Sigh]

He didnt just beat up hodys men, he went after the leader himself. If he gets word that mister hot under the collar fleet admiral is crushing his friends somewhere, I dont think he would stop at just beating up that one ship. He would go for the top, which means facing the entire fleet if needed. Im not saying it WILL work out that way, im just saying it wouldnt exactly be outside the realm of the possible. He has a habit of making large public declarations about his intent to fight insanely powerful people or groups.

I'll also point out that even if the real message was for something else, Luffy is known (at least by the world at large) to give big, meaningful actions to send a message, such as ordering the burning of the WG flag or what he did in Marineford after the war and after he'd recovered.

[lord_khaine]

He didnt just beat up hodys men, he went after the leader himself. If he gets word that mister hot under the collar fleet admiral is crushing his friends somewhere, I dont think he would stop at just beating up that one ship. He would go for the top, which means facing the entire fleet if needed. Im not saying it WILL work out that way, im just saying it wouldnt exactly be outside the realm of the possible. He has a habit of making large public declarations about his intent to fight insanely powerful people or groups.

That was for a large part because Hody were right there on fishman island along with all his men, actively smashing stuff. So i dont think he serves as an example. And i think its extremely unlikely for him to actively go for the top like that. Its just not something he does. Luffy dont go after the head. He goes after the most active thing in his sight.
And yes he regularly makes loud proclamations because he is a moron that newer thinks about the consequences. But really, about the only time he actively fight those guys are because they force the issue, either going after him, or endangering a member of his crew.

So Luffy actively going after the WG or the Navy is highly unlikely, and certainly against what we have seen so far. And so i dont think there will be a large clash between him and the navy, simply because the Navy is not in the way of the title of pirate king.

[Metahuman1]

Building a character for a game. Decided to do a giant. Needed to check how many ranks of growth to give it since it was an Elbaf giant. Went to google there normal height, and can't seem to get actual numbers out of google no matter how I phrase the question.

So. Would anyone here happen to know what's considered the roughly normal height or height range for Elbaf Giants?

[LaZodiac]

Two single flower houses.

[Metahuman1]

Two single flower houses.

... ... what the hell is a single flower house? Is this a minor bit of One Piece trivia that I'm blanking on?


Do we have any numbers? Like, does anyone have numbers or are they just never mentioned and I'm drawing a blank on that two cause I've been taking a break for awhile?

[LaZodiac]

... ... what the hell is a single flower house? Is this a minor bit of One Piece trivia that I'm blanking on?


Do we have any numbers? Like, does anyone have numbers or are they just never mentioned and I'm drawing a blank on that two cause I've been taking a break for awhile?

Floor, I'm dumb. I don't have numbers and they're not mentioned. They're "as big as two houses" since most giants that have shown up are clearly around that height, at least.

[Metahuman1]

Actually having poked somewhere else just after I posted this to see who got an answer first, I got a hight of 15 meters give or take being the norm. With Ores being about 6 times that.

Though I've yet to get a height range on Sanjuan Wolf. Anyone got a number for him at least?

[Traab]

... ... what the hell is a single flower house? Is this a minor bit of One Piece trivia that I'm blanking on?


Do we have any numbers? Like, does anyone have numbers or are they just never mentioned and I'm drawing a blank on that two cause I've been taking a break for awhile?

Really big

[Sigh]

You linked the wrong video there bud, that's still Marineford but has nothing to do with any giants.

[Traab]

You linked the wrong video there bud, that's still Marineford but has nothing to do with any giants.

The guy luffy is fighting seems pretty gigantic to me. What with his head being bigger than luffys entire body. If he isnt a giant, then wtf is he? Tall for his age?

Random question time, was pica ever, at any point, even remotely, a true danger to zoro in their fight? I ask because the fight videos are pretty disjointed, but every single one of them shows zoro casually carving pica to shreds in various ways from man to man, as zoro mocks him for being a soprano with a huge dull sword, to man versus mountain where he literally chops him into smaller and smaller pieces to force him to pop out and be finished off. I dont think he ever even gets dirty, let alone injured. Were there parts of the fight where pica was winning? Or was it all, "Meh, he has a cool ability, but no skill to work with?"

[Cozzer]

Random question time, was pica ever, at any point, even remotely, a true danger to zoro in their fight? I ask because the fight videos are pretty disjointed, but every single one of them shows zoro casually carving pica to shreds in various ways from man to man, as zoro mocks him for being a soprano with a huge dull sword, to man versus mountain where he literally chops him into smaller and smaller pieces to force him to pop out and be finished off. I dont think he ever even gets dirty, let alone injured. Were there parts of the fight where pica was winning? Or was it all, "Meh, he has a cool ability, but no skill to work with?"

He was a danger for other people, mostly. The point of the fight wasn't "will Zoro win?" but "will Zoro win in time to prevent Pica from killing these other, weaker characters?". Pica's power, when he creates his mega-Pica from the castle, makes him almost unkillable, but he isn't strong enough to seriously hurt Zoro.

[Traab]

He was a danger for other people, mostly. The point of the fight wasn't "will Zoro win?" but "will Zoro win in time to prevent Pica from killing these other, weaker characters?". Pica's power, when he creates his mega-Pica from the castle, makes him almost unkillable, but he isn't strong enough to seriously hurt Zoro.

Ah ok, that makes sense, I did notice a lot of zoro having to jump in to stop an attack on someone else, not just the grand finale.

[lord_khaine]

The guy luffy is fighting seems pretty gigantic to me. What with his head being bigger than luffys entire body. If he isnt a giant, then wtf is he? Tall for his age?

I guess he did not bother to watch the entire video or something. Because yes that was a giant. There were a group of them fighting at the side of the Marine.

[Metahuman1]

Yes, I'm so glad that video showed how many meters tall they all were too. That will make calculating it in Mutants and Masterminds so very much easier.







Also, having had a bit of time to begin chipping away at the show again, I call Hacks on Doffy's top enforcer freak. Dude, you got cut into 3 pieces and you don't, according to this thread when I asked some months back, have a Logia fruit. That should have been the freaking end of you being alive, let alone being able to fight in this battle.

And no, you were not using Observation Haki and you were not ready for it, dialog makes it clear that caught you completely off guard and you took it full on. That's it. Your done for. Why the hell did you just get up and shrug it off like your a logia user?!

[LaZodiac]

Yes, I'm so glad that video showed how many meters tall they all were too. That will make calculating it in Mutants and Masterminds so very much easier.







Also, having had a bit of time to begin chipping away at the show again, I call Hacks on Doffy's top enforcer freak. Dude, you got cut into 3 pieces and you don't, according to this thread when I asked some months back, have a Logia fruit. That should have been the freaking end of you being alive, let alone being able to fight in this battle.

And no, you were not using Observation Haki and you were not ready for it, dialog makes it clear that caught you completely off guard and you took it full on. That's it. Your done for. Why the hell did you just get up and shrug it off like your a logia user?!

Do you mean the goopy man? That's explained rather brilliantly. He fakes being a logia by just wearing a super poofy coat, he's actually very thin and it just looks like he gets sliced into pieces.

[Traab]

Yes, I'm so glad that video showed how many meters tall they all were too. That will make calculating it in Mutants and Masterminds so very much easier.







Also, having had a bit of time to begin chipping away at the show again, I call Hacks on Doffy's top enforcer freak. Dude, you got cut into 3 pieces and you don't, according to this thread when I asked some months back, have a Logia fruit. That should have been the freaking end of you being alive, let alone being able to fight in this battle.

And no, you were not using Observation Haki and you were not ready for it, dialog makes it clear that caught you completely off guard and you took it full on. That's it. Your done for. Why the hell did you just get up and shrug it off like your a logia user?!

Too be honest I posted it more as a joke.

[Metahuman1]

Zodi: Is that it? Really? Cause, he's sure not said so yet, and even if he did, even by one piece logic that's stretching it a bit.

Ya know what, I still want to call Hacks on him.


Traab: I figured as much. Hence the small amused and vaguely snarky humor tone of my response.

[Spacewolf]

Yea that's the explanation of it Page 20 of chapter 782 shows it pretty clearly, although I don't remember him getting sliced up before that just has a few punches thrown at him.

[Metahuman1]

Guess it either didn't make the jump to the anime or it didn't make the jump to the sub titles. Cause one second he's cut in 3 with his head shown clearly separated form the other 2 chunks of his body, and his body is laying there, then it all liquefies and comes back together and he attacks Usopp again and brags about how he's not beaten and he wouldn't loose to a weakling like that.

Right after said weakling had fired one of those plant shot things he's favoring now at him that slipped past his counter attack and cut him in 3 when he wasn't expecting it.

Then next we see of him Usopp's been creamed and Sugar beats herself by assuming they were trying to poison her and then force feeding the stupidly spicy stuff to Usopp thinking it's poison, and then fainting when he has the bad reaction that the audience was expecting but she evidently wasn't.



I maintain that these 2 are Hacks. Sugars Devil Fruit is an I Win button unless she's fighting someone who can just nuke the Island she's on from another Island or someone who uses Seaprisom Stone gear as a primary fighting style, and Sticky Fruit freak who's name I can't spell off the top of my head is shown as having Logia powers with out eating a Logia fruit, cause, again, I don't see how that trick works for a very clearly explicitly shown Decapitation like we've had.


Well, on the bright side, There's maybe one more person who's in a position to have a flashback to explain that Doffy is like if Satan and Narholethotep (I spelled it wrong, I know. It was that uber powerful Lovecraft being in the Cthuluh Mythos that was the exception in that it did care and was actively malevolent.) Made a baby, an aside from that, we should be on an upswing here in terms of wracking up some wins against this asshat.

[LaZodiac]

Zodi: Is that it? Really? Cause, he's sure not said so yet, and even if he did, even by one piece logic that's stretching it a bit.

Ya know what, I still want to call Hacks on him.

I mean one of the cat ninjas did this trick as far back as Captain Kuro's arc.

Guess it either didn't make the jump to the anime or it didn't make the jump to the sub titles. Cause one second he's cut in 3 with his head shown clearly separated form the other 2 chunks of his body, and his body is laying there, then it all liquefies and comes back together and he attacks Usopp again and brags about how he's not beaten and he wouldn't loose to a weakling like that.

Right after said weakling had fired one of those plant shot things he's favoring now at him that slipped past his counter attack and cut him in 3 when he wasn't expecting it.

Then next we see of him Usopp's been creamed and Sugar beats herself by assuming they were trying to poison her and then force feeding the stupidly spicy stuff to Usopp thinking it's poison, and then fainting when he has the bad reaction that the audience was expecting but she evidently wasn't.

I maintain that these 2 are Hacks. Sugars Devil Fruit is an I Win button unless she's fighting someone who can just nuke the Island she's on from another Island or someone who uses Seaprisom Stone gear as a primary fighting style, and Sticky Fruit freak who's name I can't spell off the top of my head is shown as having Logia powers with out eating a Logia fruit, cause, again, I don't see how that trick works for a very clearly explicitly shown Decapitation like we've had.


Well, on the bright side, There's maybe one more person who's in a position to have a flashback to explain that Doffy is like if Satan and Narholethotep (I spelled it wrong, I know. It was that uber powerful Lovecraft being in the Cthuluh Mythos that was the exception in that it did care and was actively malevolent.) Made a baby, an aside from that, we should be on an upswing here in terms of wracking up some wins against this asshat.

Yeah I don't recall his body being sliced into PIECES like that. Also note, he can create clones like Robin can, which could explain that.

Also I think you're gonna like how Ussop beats Sugar.

[Metahuman1]

If I recall right, the cat-ninja in question got hit by Zorro, but survived because he was so very fat that the fat cut juuuuuuust enough of the power out of the hits to not make them instantly fatal. He was still in a very bad way, just, not dead right that second. A point they showed at the time.

I'm ok with that one cause that sort of thing, Fat acting as padding and shielding from inbound injuries, including from slashing and piercing weapons, has a notable pile of documented historical precedent, both with man and with nature. Yes you could make an argument that man and nature have no distinction or not I don't care right this second it's beside the point I'm making.


Read enough crime reports and you'll see people getting slashed at with small pocket knives or shot with small caliber lower grain bullets coming out of short barrels were the hit from the weapon did not penetrate deeply enough into the intended victim to kill them or even incapacitate them. (True there's a flip side but there's almost always a flip side and right now that's not the important part.)

So, anyway, there's sufficient precedent that it doesn't bother me.





As for the other, we see 3 distinct parts fly in 3 distinct directions after 2 blades go all the way through. Meat and head and all. If they had said he was a Logia type up front, I'd have no complaint at all except the obvious one. "Why do Usopp and of all people on this team ROBIN not have gear/powers that can counter Logia types in general by now again? This soon after a major time skip because they were all very nearly murdered in there faces by a Logia user for the Umpteenth time and they all KNOW FOR A FACT that they will have to deal with Logias. Even know that Luffy is going to get himself killed trying to protect them. Even called this out in universe? Also, as a topper, you spent 2 years training with the dude that runs the Revolutionary Army, the most wanted man on the planet, whom we know has beat down Haki Users and Logia types before this, and has multiple significant reasons to make damn sure you can too by the time you parted company with him. You cannot tell me he doesn't know the basics of Armament Haki and how to go "Here's how to do it, here's how to instruct it. Pass it on if any of your friends come back to the ship at the end of this and haven't covered it. " because in universe there really, REALLY isn't a good reason for this by this stage. Not with the frequency that it's turning into THE deciding factor for everyone except the monster trio. Hell I'm amazed Law hasn't made it a point yet to call the lot of them out for this point and make sure it get's corrected if for no other reason then it has now imperiled his plan at several points. I know I'd be Frustrated as hell about it and I get the distinct feeling Law is meant to be a LOT smarter and more driven a person then I am. "

However, I'm told he's a paramecia, and they did show his head flying away quite clearly. Which only slowed him down cause he's (the fictional character in a TV show for clarity here for the mods. No actual people involved.) a freaking IRL internet troll, and waited a moment playing dead before he decided to go "Fooled you! Lol, noob, epic fail!" and win the fight by virtue of being a devil fruit user, who, apparently, is Hacks.





Also, as for Sugar. That was funny, but frankly, not satisfying. He didn't beat her. That was Deus Ex Machina forcing her to beat herself for him because the fact that they are both Hacks beat him first!

Robin and Leo's combo attack working would have been beating her. They dropped there guard in a fight with copious numbers of opponents. Doing that crap is a stupidly bad idea no matter how strong you are and that working would have been a logical consequence. But Sugars power is uber Hacks so no worries. (The only thing careless about what Robin did was that she didn't instantly take the opportunity to have ever bone in both her arms broken in multiple places rapidly and systematically, and have her neck snapped in the most merciless way possible at the exact same time, and on both of them, just to be certain, but whatever.)

Usopp's trick actually killing sticky dude and then him having to pop her in the head with a round that left her out of the rest of the fighting wit a concussion and maybe a fractured skull would have been winning. Or hell, him not bothering with the speech first and taking her out form across the freaking structure with out bothering with her body guard, taking both of them unawares and leaving her in the same condition? Like an actual sniper? That would have been winning. What we got? Nope. She beat herself because the two of them were so OP, there was never ever a prayer of anything else happening other then more powerful characters getting there to do it for them.

So, on the whole, I actually didn't like it beyond "Oh thank god it's over I hope the next episode all those uber pirates sweep in and kill both her and her bodyguard mercilessly so that I never have to look at there stupid Villain-Sue-Hacks faces again, and then we can move on to more interesting things, like fights were it's at least possible for the bad guys to actually be defeated by something other then random whims of plot."

[LaZodiac]

If I recall right, the cat-ninja in question got hit by Zorro, but survived because he was so very fat that the fat cut juuuuuuust enough of the power out of the hits to not make them instantly fatal. He was still in a very bad way, just, not dead right that second. A point they showed at the time.

I'm ok with that one cause that sort of thing, Fat acting as padding and shielding from inbound injuries, including from slashing and piercing weapons, has a notable pile of documented historical precedent, both with man and with nature. Yes you could make an argument that man and nature have no distinction or not I don't care right this second it's beside the point I'm making.

Read enough crime reports and you'll see people getting slashed at with small pocket knives or shot with small caliber lower grain bullets coming out of short barrels were the hit from the weapon did not penetrate deeply enough into the intended victim to kill them or even incapacitate them. (True there's a flip side but there's almost always a flip side and right now that's not the important part.)

So, anyway, there's sufficient precedent that it doesn't bother me.

As for the other, we see 3 distinct parts fly in 3 distinct directions after 2 blades go all the way through. Meat and head and all.

Also, as for Sugar. That was funny, but frankly, not satisfying. He didn't beat her. That was Deus Ex Machina forcing her to beat herself for him because the fact that they are both Hacks beat him first!

So, on the whole, I actually didn't like it beyond "Oh thank god it's over I hope the next episode all those uber pirates sweep in and kill both her and her bodyguard mercilessly so that I never have to look at there stupid Villain-Sue-Hacks faces again, and then we can move on to more interesting things, like fights were it's at least possible for the bad guys to actually be defeated by something other then random whims of plot."

It's the small thin one that got cut, he was wearing cloths that made him look as fat as the other one, who is shirtless.

Looking at that scene again, and now I remember the issue here. Trebol's not actually that big. His entire actual self is in the bottom half, because he's an emaciated old man covering himself with sticky mucas to appear giant.

Sugar's very powerful, yes. That doesn't make it "lol hacks too powerful". Ussop gets a better scene later, don't worry.

[Metahuman1]

Alright, if you say so. I know I'm not gonna go dive on it and check. And the thin one making it, well, that's a basic principle behind a lot of armor, so the idea that the cut couldn't get quite enough power and depth to be a kill shot works.


Really? Is that what there going for here? Well, he'd have to be bent over smaller then Sugar just about for that trick to fly in that case but alright, I'll go with it if that's the case.





I though that about her. And then she proved that merely ranged devil fruit use against her was enough to allow for her to do her thing with no chance of stopping her on Robin and that was were I called Hacks.




Will see, but I'm half tempted to start a counter for times you've said that and been right vs. times you've said that and been wrong at this rate. (I'm mostly joking on that one, relax.)

[lord_khaine]

As for the other, we see 3 distinct parts fly in 3 distinct directions after 2 blades go all the way through. Meat and head and all. If they had said he was a Logia type up front, I'd have no complaint at all except the obvious one. "Why do Usopp and of all people on this team ROBIN not have gear/powers that can counter Logia types in general by now again? This soon after a major time skip because they were all very nearly murdered in there faces by a Logia user for the Umpteenth time and they all KNOW FOR A FACT that they will have to deal with Logias. Even know that Luffy is going to get himself killed trying to protect them. Even called this out in universe? Also, as a topper, you spent 2 years training with the dude that runs the Revolutionary Army, the most wanted man on the planet, whom we know has beat down Haki Users and Logia types before this, and has multiple significant reasons to make damn sure you can too by the time you parted company with him. You cannot tell me he doesn't know the basics of Armament Haki and how to go "Here's how to do it, here's how to instruct it. Pass it on if any of your friends come back to the ship at the end of this and haven't covered it. " because in universe there really, REALLY isn't a good reason for this by this stage. Not with the frequency that it's turning into THE deciding factor for everyone except the monster trio. Hell I'm amazed Law hasn't made it a point yet to call the lot of them out for this point and make sure it get's corrected if for no other reason then it has now imperiled his plan at several points. I know I'd be Frustrated as hell about it and I get the distinct feeling Law is meant to be a LOT smarter and more driven a person then I am. "

This is building on the assumpion that armament Haki is something everyone can easily learn though. But clearly its not, since its a skill only possesed by the absolutely elite fighters. We dont even have any evidence that it is something everyone can learn to a degree where its useful.
For that matter it was also a Paramecia user that signaled the start of the time skip for most of the crew members. Kuma send them all flying, and showed how unprepared they were.
We have also been shown though, that Usop has made attempts at making weapons out of Seastone Cuffs. It is somethng thats being planned against.

However, I'm told he's a paramecia, and they did show his head flying away quite clearly. Which only slowed him down cause he's (the fictional character in a TV show for clarity here for the mods. No actual people involved.) a freaking IRL internet troll, and waited a moment playing dead before he decided to go "Fooled you! Lol, noob, epic fail!" and win the fight by virtue of being a devil fruit user, who, apparently, is Hacks.

Looking though the relevant comics, then it is actualy hinted. We are shown Trebol has an extremely weird, almost fluid anatomy. But yes, a lot of DF's are hacks in general. Thats nothing new. Almost all of them gives access to powers that no regular person can dream to compete with.

Do agree on that the plan with the grape was extremely dump. We are even told Sugar is not a little girl, thats stupid enough as it is. But the comic can still now allot itself to let anything overtly bad happen to her. Like just sniping her from afar with a rock and giving her a concussion. Of course at the same time, that plan was not completely safe either. Trebol was able to hit a moving fly between the eyes. He might have a degree of observation Haki that is high enough to make him block such a direct attack.

I though that about her. And then she proved that merely ranged devil fruit use against her was enough to allow for her to do her thing with no chance of stopping her on Robin and that was were I called Hacks.

Again, all DF's are HAX to those who dont have them. Robins is more or less impossible to defend against for a normal person as well. But it is specifically Robins own limbs she grows. We have been shown before that it hurts her when her limbs are damaged.
So really, there is most likely a lot of Crew members that are a better choice for dealing with Sugar and Trebol. But they had a complicated plan with a lot of seperate steps that needed to be carried out. So those two were the best available.

[Metahuman1]

Reiglyhe explicitly states that anyone can learn to use one or the other, and in theory anyone can learn to use both it just takes more effort, but it also gives you enough extra options that it's worth while to do so. Conquerer's Haki is the only one that not just any joe off the street can learn with a bit of tutoring. Which Robin at least had access too.


And I'd be less harsh about this if they had not had a 2 year skip were in right before hand it was beaten into them mercilessly and to the point were they all nearly died repeatedly that these would be nessissary things to make it, and evidently, they didn't bother after that.



As for all devil fruits are Hacks, no, we've seen some Devil Fruit that aren't that hard to counter act. Rust Rust fruit for example just means your more vulnerable to water and seaprism stone if you happen to be fighting anyone that doesn't rely on metal weaponry. Someone who favors an unarmed fighting style or some form of staff/stick fighting technique for example. Hell in an ambush environment or from a sniper, a gun would still work just fine.

What's his face with the spring fruit and most of the Zoan types are only notable because the people with them were already strong melee fighters. The only exception on that latter category we might have seen are the Mythical Zoans, which are called out as the rarest. (Also the Dragon fruit is evidently kind of weak unless either the artificial version the kid ate sucks, or right now it's just so new that the kid can't work with it yet and if you give him 2-3 weeks of an actual crash course he'll be able to at least put up a fight.)

We've seen tons of Devil Fruit were you need to be really, really well practiced with it and/or already have certain inclinations to accomplish squat with it once you eat it. Sugars however makes her as depicted borderline invincible.




As for Trebolt, attack from multiple angles at once, force him to divide his attention. Robin and Usopp are both suppose to be reasonably smart at least and both willing to play dirty to get results if that's what it takes, and this was the time for that. He can't block if he's got Robin and the Tontatta;s hammering him like there lives depend on it from three different angles and then while he's been in the heat for it for a couple of minutes an attack comes from across the facility while there's distance and obstacles between him and the person he needs to block for.


Or hell, just have that Robin Arm come out, grab the nearest hard object, and wallop her once over the back of the head while she's distracted. She has a big lump and is moaning, have a Tontotta say she's still breathing, put cuffs on her. Done. And with LESS violence then they put in the actual version of events.




Also, we've seen none devil fruit users run rough shot over Robin and her fruit on multiple occasions now. Hell, we've seen it since the timeskip at this point on Punk Hazard AND Fishman Island.


Did Usopp working on that make it to the Anime, or is this yet another in todays list of things that evidently didn't get in there but really, really needed to have?

[lord_khaine]

Reiglyhe explicitly states that anyone can learn to use one or the other, and in theory anyone can learn to use both it just takes more effort, but it also gives you enough extra options that it's worth while to do so. Conquerer's Haki is the only one that not just any joe off the street can learn with a bit of tutoring. Which Robin at least had access too.


And I'd be less harsh about this if they had not had a 2 year skip were in right before hand it was beaten into them mercilessly and to the point were they all nearly died repeatedly that these would be nessissary things to make it, and evidently, they didn't bother after that.

It might be a theoretical everyone, in the same way that theoretically any ablebodied person can climb mount everest. Does not mean its practically doable for them though. And the large amount of people without Haki in organisation with access to it means it is not just something anyone can learn with a bit of tutoring.

I am also confused about why you repeatedly claim that the need for armament Haki were hammering into them before the timeskip. Are you talking about the fight with the light admiral? Because shortly afterwards they were taught that Haki would not have made a difference, that they were all just to low level, when Kuma send them flying.

As for all devil fruits are Hacks, no, we've seen some Devil Fruit that aren't that hard to counter act. Rust Rust fruit for example just means your more vulnerable to water and seaprism stone if you happen to be fighting anyone that doesn't rely on metal weaponry. Someone who favors an unarmed fighting style or some form of staff/stick fighting technique for example. Hell in an ambush environment or from a sniper, a gun would still work just fine.

What's his face with the spring fruit and most of the Zoan types are only notable because the people with them were already strong melee fighters. The only exception on that latter category we might have seen are the Mythical Zoans, which are called out as the rarest. (Also the Dragon fruit is evidently kind of weak unless either the artificial version the kid ate sucks, or right now it's just so new that the kid can't work with it yet and if you give him 2-3 weeks of an actual crash course he'll be able to at least put up a fight.)

We've seen tons of Devil Fruit were you need to be really, really well practiced with it and/or already have certain inclinations to accomplish squat with it once you eat it. Sugars however makes her as depicted borderline invincible.

It is true that it seems like its mainly Logia types that are Hax from the start. And that clearly they are not all created equally. But Luffy's also started completely useless when he was a kid (mainly think thats whats wrong with the dragon fruit). So as for the rust fruit. All the user need to do is to realise rust is just one form of oxidation. If he extends that ability to other forms of matter then we suddenly got a monster who can make everything, even rock or flesh, burn at his touch.

And kinda surprised you think Sugars fruit is OP, when her fruit is defeated by the same thing that could take down the rust fruit users. A sharp pole or a sword is all it takes.
Sugar however is so dangerous because she is extremely well trained. We have seen that the Tonto is normally to fast for a human to register. So when Sugar can knock down a group of them, then its because her speed and agility are likely higher than anyone but the monster trio's.

As for Trebolt, attack from multiple angles at once, force him to divide his attention. Robin and Usopp are both suppose to be reasonably smart at least and both willing to play dirty to get results if that's what it takes, and this was the time for that. He can't block if he's got Robin and the Tontatta;s hammering him like there lives depend on it from three different angles and then while he's been in the heat for it for a couple of minutes an attack comes from across the facility while there's distance and obstacles between him and the person he needs to block for.


Or hell, just have that Robin Arm come out, grab the nearest hard object, and wallop her once over the back of the head while she's distracted. She has a big lump and is moaning, have a Tontotta say she's still breathing, put cuffs on her. Done. And with LESS violence then they put in the actual version of events.

Attacking Trebolt from multiple angles might work, but would have a very high body count. It was being made very clear that his strenght were far above the members sent to disable Sugar.
Why do you think said arm would have been allowed to survive long enough to even pick up an item when even a fly got swatted aside?

Also, we've seen none devil fruit users run rough shot over Robin and her fruit on multiple occasions now. Hell, we've seen it since the timeskip at this point on Punk Hazard AND Fishman Island.

And has any of these non-DF users been normal? Or superhumans that just picked another path to power?

Did Usopp working on that make it to the Anime, or is this yet another in todays list of things that evidently didn't get in there but really, really needed to have?

He should have fired off some seastone cuffs in the punk hazard arc.

[Metahuman1]

Not just that fight. It would have been immensely helpful at Eneis Lobby, Thriller Bark, and yes, if they had been fighting Kuma it would also have been rather helpful. And I doubt Chopper most of them would have minded it while they were separated since, again, merely being able to use Haki at all vastly increases your combat effectiveness over someone who can't use it in general (We had that confirmed for us on Amazon Lily that arrows that would otherwise just be vanilla arrows when infused with a little armament Haki could sink marine battle ships with 1 hit.)

AS you said, a lot of time was put into drilling it into them all that they were not ready, and Reyleigh, Ivankov and Mihawk all had the exact same idea that ready meant at minimum, proficient enough in Armament Haki and Observation Haki to make sure that an opponent merely having 1 or the other or even both of those things, or merely having a decent Devil Fruit, was not an I Win button. Even if you argued that it didn't make sense at the time for Franky, Chopper, Usopp, Nami or Brook to learn any Haki use during the time skip, Robin was hanging out with Monkey D. Dragon, most wanted man in the world and someone everyone in the Navy recognizes as a personal powerhouse. Even the high level guys. The one's who tend to not treat none Haki Users as being that powerful or that much of a threat to the likes of a Vice Admiral or an Admiral. And we know for a fact that Dragon has multiple people under his command that can use Haki, and we know they had to learn it form somewhere. Given all of this, there is no good reason for Robin at least not to have come back with Haki. And frankly I think the fact that Frankie didn't come back with the kind of upgrades needed to be able to 1 on 1 a Logia type or other Hacks devil fruit user or a Haki Master on his own if he needed too is also abit questionable.

More so since we have confirmation that Haki use is actually common in The New World from Big Mom's commanders over on Fishman Island.




As for Awakened, given the fact that the number of people so far on the series that we've seen that could be reasonably argued to be awakened in there devil fruit powers can be counted on fingers with out using all the said fingers, I think that would fairly qualify as "Now you have a special threat that requires the monster trio.".

Also, Sugars fruit can't be taken down by such a thing. They showed that failing. Contrast the Rust Rust fruit user who defeated Zorro and destroyed one of his swords, but was taken out by one of the others who wasn't dependent on metal weaponry. (I forget which one at the moment.)



Simple: It took them BOTH a good minute to register, and the one who reacted was Sugar, in a panic reaction that only worked because her power is Hacks. If it had been 1 arm with a hammer or something, she wouldn't have been able to get anything done until she was out for the count as long as it took her to register it in the actual exchange.


That depends on what you define as normal. Though that question feels a lot like moving the goal posts.

... ... ... I'm not remembering it right now, but I'm admittedly sleep deprived and after Punk Hazard I took a long break due to reason form OP, so I might not be remembering that fight is all. I could be wrong. I'll look it up if I ever get some time.