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  1. - Top - End - #211
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    Default Re: One Piece V: Black Leg Wedding

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    We also see that Pudding HAS had a change of heart. She needs Chiffon's cake so she can prevent Sanji and his friends from being hurt or killed by Big Mom. I am a little disappointed by this, but it's fine.
    It is a little grating with the constant redemption of (almost) every attractive female entering the story. But again, OP is a story of people changing like that. Where even complete monsters like Crocodille is allowed to at least find partial redemption and a chance to be in a positive light.

    Kinda sad for king Baum though. Thinking about it, he is a complete innocent that were dragged into this mess by the Strawhats.

    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  2. - Top - End - #212
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    Default Re: One Piece V: Black Leg Wedding

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
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    It is a little grating with the constant redemption of (almost) every attractive female entering the story. But again, OP is a story of people changing like that. Where even complete monsters like Crocodille is allowed to at least find partial redemption and a chance to be in a positive light.

    Kinda sad for king Baum though. Thinking about it, he is a complete innocent that were dragged into this mess by the Strawhats.

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    Maybe Braum Jr, son of Braum will avenge him?

    Also to be fair this arc also had a NON attractive lady get redemption. Assuming you're into Chiffon.


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  3. - Top - End - #213
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    Default Re: One Piece V: Black Leg Wedding

    Is Chiffon getting any sort of redemption though? Has she ever been anything else besides a helpful background NPC with a sad story?
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: One Piece V: Black Leg Wedding

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
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    Maybe Braum Jr, son of Braum will avenge him?

    Also to be fair this arc also had a NON attractive lady get redemption. Assuming you're into Chiffon.
    It's... it's Baum...

    But yeah, good chapter all around. I can't remember the tree girl but otherwise... Still hooked on how they'll do it.
    "What's done is done."

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  5. - Top - End - #215
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    Default Re: One Piece V: Black Leg Wedding

    Ok, so I'm a bit further in now. Luffy just used something called King Kong gun on Doffy and we had a clip of his stupid sun glasses hitting the ground after he fell into this uber deep hole the force of the hit created and then breaking.

    I, think Doffy may be dead. Also, I really, really hope Doffy is dead. Cause F that guy, seriously.



    Couple of asides getting to this point.

    1: 3 minute heal huh? I have to wonder why he didn't just take you straight to the heavy hitters first, including Luffy, and have you get them back up and running for longer, and then just do the 3 minute heal for everyone else. (Also I totally thought since they were making a big deal about the death of everyone in less time than it would take Luffy to recover that he was going to get hit by a stray healing thing, get up, Wallop Doffy out of the fight, and then collapse again.

    2: Zorro, you make a wonderful point, we've seen his string's get bested, and we've got all these high level fighters working against them including you AND a freaking beast mode Admiral whom by yourselves are both at a comparable level to this guy. Oh, and he's trying to cut Seaprisum Stone, that stuff that ruins Devil Fruit powers just by getting to close to them apparently, so, yeah. Why IS this thing THIS hard to stop or even slow down? Hell, I think it would have been pretty epic of this whole combined effort broke it as an F you while Luffy was getting his Haki back and THEN Luffy finished you off.

    3: Speaking of. Damn it Rebecca! No, no you can't slow him down! You CAN'T DO ANYTHING AT ALL OTHER THEN BE A LIABILITY AND CRY AND BE RESCUED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I. Never. Want. To. See. Her. In. Combat. Again. In fact, I only ever want to see her again in none combat situations applying political pressure or leverage to F up the world government as a high ranking Beurocrat. Such a damn waste of potential.

    And the worst part?

    Violet, freaking Violet, whom was just as much if not more so his captive and in a way that strongly encouraged her to minimize training, actually did better then you did against him! Violet, who doesn't have an especially combat focused Devil Fruit, figured out how to do special devil fruit attacks, and give them Armament Haki, and seems to have learned at least the basic idea of some martial arts even if she's horribly under powered at doing so!

    ... ... ...

    are we positive that Violet can't join the Crew and be tutored by like, Kanjiro and Kinemon in Armament Haki, or have Hack come along and teach her Fishman Karate so she can master water use while fighting and get her speed and power up some, maybe learn how to predict movement's better with her fruit or something like a Jedi, seeing it a few seconds before it happens so she can react to it super fast and always be a step ahead of things like traps and feints? I see that there is still potential for a real Badass here, so that would actually be nice.

    That said, also, I can't help but feel that this scene wrecks any validity to the argument that Oda just doesn't sup up ladys anymore because he doesn't like drawing them fighting since his daughter was born. That scene had so much ick that no father should ever want his daughter to wind up in, and strictly because of how inept and lack luster respectively at fighting BOTH Violet and Rebecca are, particularly in relation to Doffy.

    4: Sabo, you were freaking TOYING with him earlier while he was going full out against you. You have acquired a damn Logia fruit since then, and a fairly good Logia by Logia standards at that! WHAT THE HELL DO YOU MEAN YOUR GOING TO HAVE YOUR HANDS FULL WITH HIM!!!??? I get not being able to outright defeat both of them at once, but come on man, you can survive just keeping them both busy for like, 10 minutes!!


    5: Lastly, that factory. The outer walls are made of Seaprisum Stone, which is basically indestructible and they know it's clear and the cage can't cut it and it's freaking massive.

    Why not just direct civilians there? Get inside it since even if it can be pushed around the Devil Fruit User can't Break it, and if Luffy Fails Zorro and Fujitora, with no further obstacle's to encounter, can go finish Doffy off?

    Anyway, that's the latest batch of thoughts.
    "I Burn!"

  6. - Top - End - #216
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    Default Re: One Piece V: Black Leg Wedding

    I think the impact of doffy on the ground is probably the silliest yet most epic thing ever. He literally tilted up multiple plates of bedrock clearly the size of several city blocks apiece, basically shattering dressrosa into several smaller islands just from the sheer force of his body slamming into the ground. His DEFEATED body at that, so we cant even go the whole, "Oh well with his armament haki up it would be like a meteor hitting the ground hence blah blah blah." Its fridge logic at its finest. I totally bought into how epic that final smash was, then after I calmed down and went to get a drink I was like, "Wait a minute, how the heck?!"

    Yeah rebecca sucks in all ways. Violet has stupidly massive mammaries, dresses like one of those
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    and yet still put up an actual fight against doflamingo. Even though it was hilariously one sided. Dude is half beaten to death and only luffy collapsing before he could land the finishing blow saved him, yet violet cant manage to do more than trim some of his feather boa? Rebeccas best shot was to drown him in tears and snot. She certainly produces enough to drown an elephant on an hourly basis. Hmm, possible relative of trebol perhaps?

    The birdcage was stupid, im sorry, but it was. The idea that doflamingo is so mind breakingly powerful he can setup something like that where almost literally the entire cast, including the guy who just reduced a mountain to gravel and the guy who summons meteors with his sword cant do anything but slow down its progress while doflamingo is being beaten like a red headed step child all over the dressrosa skyline by bouncy man and his goofy/scary new look is just a big no.
    Last edited by Traab; 2017-08-05 at 12:30 PM.
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  7. - Top - End - #217
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    Default Re: One Piece V: Black Leg Wedding

    The only way I'd be willing to go with the Birdcage as shown is if it was made explicit it was an uber awakening thing, and even then I seriously question it because, again, there are multiple people who operate at or at least very close to Doffy's level opposing it like there lives are on the line, and a massive obstacle that should frankly per previously established rules be destroying it on contact.

    Also, that said, another thought.




    Ok, Dressrosa is busted up like nobody's business. They, clearly, do not want that damn factory around cause there is basically no one they want to sell the crap too, and hell as a matter of spite to Doffy and too The World Government that allowed and endorsed this madness for a decade for there own reasons and benefit, I could see them being perfectly willing at a simple asking to fork as much as desired over.

    I can't help but think that Franky would be really, really, really, really stupid if, in light of this, he didn't take this utterly golden opportunity to snag some of that stuff to augment himself, his giant mech, The Sunny and it's extra ships and there weapons, Nami's weapon, and if possible, Usopp's weapon, in order to make sure that WHEN they run up against Logia types or ultra Hacks Paramecia types like Sugar or Doffy in the future, and he KNOWS they will because of the very nature of what there doing and whom there going to have as Enemy's after this (The Navy and 3 out of 4 of The Yonko, the strongest pirates and pirate crews in the world, and that's a generous estimate at this stage frankly.), and in the case of Franky, so that when an enemy with armament Haki at a high level goes to pummeling on him, they have the means to for the playing field back to level.

    You don't have to over do it.

    "Oh, My ammo is stored/My Climatac effects/My weapons are all kept in such proximity to Seaprisum Stone that they bypass special Devil Fruit Defenses. If you want to fend them off you need to make a really active and really deeply committed effort to evading or defending against them!"

    Come on man, they don't want it, you can use it to help keep your team alive and winning fights, it would be cool, and you could make the three of you credible in most if not all combat situations to some degree, which would be a hell of an improvement over your current status.





    Oh, and hey, Robin, Im quite certain there are now at least 5 people on that ship that would teach you how to use basic armament Haki, more if some of these new comers do join the fleet, if you just bounced the idea off them, and that could have helped you out a LOT dealing with Diamantie, Gladious and possibly Trebolt.

    Your suppose to be one of the smart ones, you know it get's harder exponentially after this. Do it. Please, please do it so the next time a logia or someone that fights by hurting your spare limbs comes in you have a way to counteract that built into your tool box.
    "I Burn!"

  8. - Top - End - #218
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    Default Re: One Piece V: Black Leg Wedding

    Did a zanpakuto for bleach, a stand for jjba, and now for a devil fruit:

    Walk-Walk fruit
    Starting ability: You can walk on nothing in any direction, but only as long as you keep walking (not jumping, running, or even jogging).
    Tier 1 ability: You can walk to any location instantly, but you don't consciously remember walking the distance. Improvements increase how far you travel instantly.
    Tier 2 ability: You can remember details of the journey as you were walking from one point to another outside of time. Improvements increase how much you can remember.
    Tier 3 ability: You can act outside of time while walking. Improvements increase how long you can do this.
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  9. - Top - End - #219
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    Default Re: One Piece V: Black Leg Wedding

    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    Ok, Dressrosa is busted up like nobody's business. They, clearly, do not want that damn factory around cause there is basically no one they want to sell the crap too, and hell as a matter of spite to Doffy and too The World Government that allowed and endorsed this madness for a decade for there own reasons and benefit, I could see them being perfectly willing at a simple asking to fork as much as desired over.
    The factory that's broken apart and can't produce Smiles anymore but is still useable as a place to store things or...any number of other functions in a city that is mostly destroyed? Yeah, why would they want it around?

    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    I can't help but think that Franky would be really, really, really, really stupid if, in light of this, he didn't take this utterly golden opportunity to snag some of that stuff to augment himself, his giant mech, The Sunny and it's extra ships and there weapons, Nami's weapon, and if possible, Usopp's weapon, in order to make sure that WHEN they run up against Logia types or ultra Hacks Paramecia types like Sugar or Doffy in the future, and he KNOWS they will because of the very nature of what there doing and whom there going to have as Enemy's after this (The Navy and 3 out of 4 of The Yonko, the strongest pirates and pirate crews in the world, and that's a generous estimate at this stage frankly.), and in the case of Franky, so that when an enemy with armament Haki at a high level goes to pummeling on him, they have the means to for the playing field back to level.

    You don't have to over do it.

    "Oh, My ammo is stored/My Climatac effects/My weapons are all kept in such proximity to Seaprisum Stone that they bypass special Devil Fruit Defenses. If you want to fend them off you need to make a really active and really deeply committed effort to evading or defending against them!"
    So just to be clear. What's your plan on getting Sea Stone out of a building that couldn't be cut by strings they literally couldn't cut? How exactly are they going to get chunks of it let alone process it? Not to mention that this is the first time they've even come across it in this large of an amount and that it would be a waste to make it into projectiles. Smoker's Jitte isn't even made from Sea Stone, only coated in it, so it doesn't make a good straight weapon. Not to mention...if it was that great to use on melee weapons...why don't we see more Navy personnel with Sea Stone weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    Come on man, they don't want it, you can use it to help keep your team alive and winning fights, it would be cool, and you could make the three of you credible in most if not all combat situations to some degree, which would be a hell of an improvement over your current status.
    Franky beat like four people in Dressrosa and Robin was (as she generally is) great at large groups of people and support. Nami is one of the only reasons (the other being Brook) that Luffy and co are doing nearly as well as they are in the current arc against Big Mom. Not everyone in the Straw Hats has to be a strong fighter. They have other roles which you'd expect from a ship full of pirates. This isn't your standard Shonen where everyone has to be tipping the "power scales" to accomplish things and arguing to try and make it so...just ignores what makes One Piece as great as it is.


    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    Oh, and hey, Robin, Im quite certain there are now at least 5 people on that ship that would teach you how to use basic armament Haki, more if some of these new comers do join the fleet, if you just bounced the idea off them, and that could have helped you out a LOT dealing with Diamantie, Gladious and possibly Trebolt.
    There's clearly more to Haki than being taught how to use it. If anyone could teach it to another person so long as they had it then it wouldn't be as rare as it is. We're told everyone has the capability of learning two of the three forms of Haki but we're not told all of what they entails. If it was as easy as just going "this is how you do it" don't you think the whole crew would have it by now? Usopp is actually a really case study in this since we actually saw him figure out Observation Haki in real time. It seems you have to become aware of your ability to do it (something Luffy already did also in Real Time) before you can start learning how to harness it on a conscious level.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    Your suppose to be one of the smart ones, you know it get's harder exponentially after this. Do it. Please, please do it so the next time a logia or someone that fights by hurting your spare limbs comes in you have a way to counteract that built into your tool box.
    Does it? Exponentially huh? I think you need to calm down with your math there. Logias have already been shown to not be that big of a threat in the New World for various reasons and the Logia users who still are have ways around Haki.

  10. - Top - End - #220
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    Default Re: One Piece V: Black Leg Wedding

    Does it? Exponentially huh? I think you need to calm down with your math there. Logias have already been shown to not be that big of a threat in the New World for various reasons and the Logia users who still are have ways around Haki.
    Well except for elemental logia i would say. Haki does not help you to much when being set on fire from afar.

    It does also look like a logia body is a lot harder to hurt than a normal one. Even with Haki. In the Whitebeard vs Akainu fight, then Akainu managed to absord an absurd beating from Whitebeard, getting stabbed or slashed repeatedly. But he clearly doesnt have internal organs in his lava state. And managed to reform several times, even after being slashed partly in 2.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  11. - Top - End - #221
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    Default Re: One Piece V: Black Leg Wedding

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Well except for elemental logia i would say. Haki does not help you to much when being set on fire from afar.
    Well no but nothing does really.

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    It does also look like a logia body is a lot harder to hurt than a normal one. Even with Haki. In the Whitebeard vs Akainu fight, then Akainu managed to absord an absurd beating from Whitebeard, getting stabbed or slashed repeatedly. But he clearly doesnt have internal organs in his lava state. And managed to reform several times, even after being slashed partly in 2.
    Not really, I mean...all it took to get Ace down was a single punch. Blackbeard also didn't take as much of a beating and he's a Logia. Or Crocodile, but Crocodile showed that having Haki doesn't mean crap if you know to expect it since he just formed around attacks. Akainu is just a beast. Logia clearly don't have internal organs when they're not hit by a hit with Haki or if they don't have their powers going. No one is saying a Logia isn't powerful but the sole purpose for Caribou was to show that Logia aren't as much of a threat in the New World. You're comparing three of the most powerful and feared characters (the Admirals) to other Logia users.

    Look how handily (don't look at the anime) Luffy took down Ceaser? Or Caribou. Or how absolutely Zoro beat Monet. Or how less of a threat Smoker is now in the New World. The biggest threat he holds now is the Sea Stone Jitte.
    Last edited by Razade; 2017-08-10 at 05:20 AM.

  12. - Top - End - #222
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    Not really, I mean...all it took to get Ace down was a single punch. Blackbeard also didn't take as much of a beating and he's a Logia. Or Crocodile, but Crocodile showed that having Haki doesn't mean crap if you know to expect it since he just formed around attacks. Akainu is just a beast. Logia clearly don't have internal organs when they're not hit by a hit with Haki or if they don't have their powers going. No one is saying a Logia isn't powerful but the sole purpose for Caribou was to show that Logia aren't as much of a threat in the New World. You're comparing three of the most powerful and feared characters (the Admirals) to other Logia users.

    Look how handily (don't look at the anime) Luffy took down Ceaser? Or Caribou. Or how absolutely Zoro beat Monet. Or how less of a threat Smoker is now in the New World. The biggest threat he holds now is the Sea Stone Jitte.
    Hmm... im not that certain that fights involving Blackbeard is to good of an example here. His fruit is an anomaly that straight up negates another DF, while also making attacks hurt him more.

    But yes i do agree on that there are logia users who in the grand scheme of things are kinda insignificant. Caribou is a like an unusually fat toad at the edge of the ocean. Monet is smart, deceptive and vicious, but she clearly also wasted to many character points on mentat stats and social skills. And Ceasar is a scientisk who showed that with a bit of planning you can easily take down combat monsters like post-timeskip luffy. But in a straight up fight he folds.

    So point i try to make with my example, is that to defeat someone you need to be physically superior to them, or pull out some sort of dirty trick. But to defeat someone who have mastered their logia fruit, then you need to be even more physically superior, and have haki as well.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    Well no but nothing does really.



    Not really, I mean...all it took to get Ace down was a single punch. Blackbeard also didn't take as much of a beating and he's a Logia. Or Crocodile, but Crocodile showed that having Haki doesn't mean crap if you know to expect it since he just formed around attacks. Akainu is just a beast. Logia clearly don't have internal organs when they're not hit by a hit with Haki or if they don't have their powers going. No one is saying a Logia isn't powerful but the sole purpose for Caribou was to show that Logia aren't as much of a threat in the New World. You're comparing three of the most powerful and feared characters (the Admirals) to other Logia users.

    Look how handily (don't look at the anime) Luffy took down Ceaser? Or Caribou. Or how absolutely Zoro beat Monet. Or how less of a threat Smoker is now in the New World. The biggest threat he holds now is the Sea Stone Jitte.
    Ace got taken down with a single punch because otherwise LUFFY would have been taken down with a single punch. Im pretty sure that shot would have been survivable had it just been him and magma face. He deliberately took that shot to his fleshy bits to protect his little brother. Akainu is a freaking beast though, i agree with that. Dude had his head warped from existence by an omnicidal whitebeard punching him so hard im surprised he didnt spontaneously get his own black hole fruit powers from the sheer amount of gravity involved. Then got tossed in the air and side swiped so hard it shattered pretty much everything on the island with the backlash and all it did was put him out of action for a few minutes, and im not sure how much of that was spent burning his way back to the surface. By all logic, unless he was flat out too injured somehow to use haki, those hits should have killed akainu so hard his grandparents would have bled to death. Im just going to guess that his ability to focus enough to use haki was at a minimum. Because it clearly HURT the guy. Just not enough, so it was like barely enough to actually make contact, not enough to really do the job.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Hmm... im not that certain that fights involving Blackbeard is to good of an example here. His fruit is an anomaly that straight up negates another DF, while also making attacks hurt him more.
    It's true that the Yami Yami no Mi is....weird...but Blackbeard is apparently just weird on his own as well. Oda's called the Yami Yami no Mi one of the three "OP fruits" along with Enel's and Law's so...it may not be the best example but it is a fine example when talking about how Haki just curbstomps Logia users who are bad with their fruits.

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    But yes i do agree on that there are logia users who in the grand scheme of things are kinda insignificant. Caribou is a like an unusually fat toad at the edge of the ocean. Monet is smart, deceptive and vicious, but she clearly also wasted to many character points on mentat stats and social skills. And Ceasar is a scientisk who showed that with a bit of planning you can easily take down combat monsters like post-timeskip luffy. But in a straight up fight he folds.
    Well the simple point of all of them is to show that Logia Users aren't the threat they were in the first half of the Grand Line. Caribou would have been a significant foe for the Strawhats before the timeskip. Maybe even a party wipe. Post-Timeskip and he's literally a gag character they just kinda punch down with no real concern. Monet would for sure have been a TPK and don't even get me started on Ceaser. His poison alone would have been a problem but Ceaser is bonkers strong even if he's not really a combatant. He was still a threat to the Strawhats until Luffy showed up and only because 1. Luffy is more or less immune to poison thanks to Impel Down and 2. Haki.

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    So point i try to make with my example, is that to defeat someone you need to be physically superior to them, or pull out some sort of dirty trick. But to defeat someone who have mastered their logia fruit, then you need to be even more physically superior, and have haki as well.
    We don't disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Ace got taken down with a single punch because otherwise LUFFY would have been taken down with a single punch. Im pretty sure that shot would have been survivable had it just been him and magma face. He deliberately took that shot to his fleshy bits to protect his little brother. Akainu is a freaking beast though, i agree with that
    Well, narrative reasoning aside, I don't think it would have been. Beyond Lava > Fire, Akainu has Haki. A killing blow from an Admiral is probably a killing blow regardless of the author logic going into it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Dude had his head warped from existence by an omnicidal whitebeard punching him so hard im surprised he didnt spontaneously get his own black hole fruit powers from the sheer amount of gravity involved. Then got tossed in the air and side swiped so hard it shattered pretty much everything on the island with the backlash and all it did was put him out of action for a few minutes, and im not sure how much of that was spent burning his way back to the surface. By all logic, unless he was flat out too injured somehow to use haki, those hits should have killed akainu so hard his grandparents would have bled to death. Im just going to guess that his ability to focus enough to use haki was at a minimum. Because it clearly HURT the guy. Just not enough, so it was like barely enough to actually make contact, not enough to really do the job.
    And then he still went on to fight Marco and a ton of other people. Don't forget that. Akainu has shown Luffy levels of tenacity. There's a reason he took over Sengoku's job and beat Kuzan. He's going to make a very good almost final boss for the series.

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    Default Re: One Piece V: Black Leg Wedding

    It's true that the Yami Yami no Mi is....weird...but Blackbeard is apparently just weird on his own as well. Oda's called the Yami Yami no Mi one of the three "OP fruits" along with Enel's and Law's so...it may not be the best example but it is a fine example when talking about how Haki just curbstomps Logia users who are bad with their fruits.
    Hmm.. i really do wonder why Enels fruit is that much better than the other elemental logia. Was this said before the other admirals were properly introduced?
    It isnt a good example for that though. If you look at OP chapter 441 then you can see that its a rather drawn out fight. It dont end in a single blow, but in a huge clash of DF power.

    Well the simple point of all of them is to show that Logia Users aren't the threat they were in the first half of the Grand Line. Caribou would have been a significant foe for the Strawhats before the timeskip. Maybe even a party wipe. Post-Timeskip and he's literally a gag character they just kinda punch down with no real concern. Monet would for sure have been a TPK and don't even get me started on Ceaser. His poison alone would have been a problem but Ceaser is bonkers strong even if he's not really a combatant. He was still a threat to the Strawhats until Luffy showed up and only because 1. Luffy is more or less immune to poison thanks to Impel Down and 2. Haki.
    It is hard to determine how well the point come across though. I mean, it is kinda a discount logia that Caribou has. And yes Ceasar is a high tier enemy. You really do both need strong Haki and absurd physical abilities to both hit him and actually survive long enough to do so.

    We don't disagree.
    Hah.. took me a brief moment to figure out the double negative here.

    Well, narrative reasoning aside, I don't think it would have been. Beyond Lava > Fire, Akainu has Haki. A killing blow from an Admiral is probably a killing blow regardless of the author logic going into it.
    I do think the bit about Lava > Fire were crap myself, and personally blame Akainu's haki for the initial clash. But i do think Ace were intentionally shielding Luffy there. It is fitting narrative wise. And looking at Ace's pose, then it is typical shonen shielding stance.

    And then he still went on to fight Marco and a ton of other people. Don't forget that. Akainu has shown Luffy levels of tenacity. There's a reason he took over Sengoku's job and beat Kuzan. He's going to make a very good almost final boss for the series.
    I cant figure out if he will last to the end, or be replaced shortly before that by the Gorosei as the Marine Boss.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Hmm.. i really do wonder why Enels fruit is that much better than the other elemental logia. Was this said before the other admirals were properly introduced?
    It isnt a good example for that though. If you look at OP chapter 441 then you can see that its a rather drawn out fight. It dont end in a single blow, but in a huge clash of DF power.
    He specifically mentioned the Ope Ope Fruit that Law has so it had to have at least been around the time of the Sabaody Archipelago Arc. All three Admirals had been revealed at that point. Not sure Akainu's power was shown before that point but the other two's were.

    As for Enel...he moves as fast as Kizaru, and isn't just light...but lightning so really strong. No one but Luffy can survive a direct lightning blast. He's insanely proficient with his Devil Fruit to boot. Oda's said that Enel would, if he was in The New World, be worth the same as Law and Luffy are now. So ya know. A pretty big deal.


    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    It is hard to determine how well the point come across though. I mean, it is kinda a discount logia that Caribou has. And yes Ceasar is a high tier enemy. You really do both need strong Haki and absurd physical abilities to both hit him and actually survive long enough to do so.
    The Swamp Swamp Fruit isn't a discount Logia, if Caribou hadn't simply relied on him being a Logia he could be an honest threat. He's basically a Bag of Holding on steroids.


    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    I do think the bit about Lava > Fire were crap myself, and personally blame Akainu's haki for the initial clash. But i do think Ace were intentionally shielding Luffy there. It is fitting narrative wise. And looking at Ace's pose, then it is typical shonen shielding stance.
    Ace was absolutely shielding Luffy, he died to save Luffy's life. That's not in question whatsoever. It's the entire summation of the War at Marineford. Ace died saving Luffy to endcap two entire arcs of Luffy trying to save Ace. That was the payout and the character growth of Luffy. I also think the Lava > Fire thing was a weird excuse but I mean....lava is hotter than fire so it makes sense. I don't understand why they didn't just go "Yeah...also Haki and Akainu is beastly."


    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    I cant figure out if he will last to the end, or be replaced shortly before that by the Gorosei as the Marine Boss.
    I did say almost end boss. I don't think he'll be the end end boss. The Gorosei seem to be on that level. Or something we haven't been introduced to yet even. Who knows what's waiting at Raftel. Either way, Oda's been hinting at an arc larger and more violent than The War at Marineford for a while now so I presume that the final final arc is going to be balls to the wall crazy. Blackbeard will probably factor in there somewhere, if he's not the end of the Yonko Saga which...might happen. Though that does seem, to me, risking undercutting Kaido as the final big bad of the Yonko Saga if Blackbeard is.
    Last edited by Razade; 2017-08-10 at 06:21 PM.

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    Im hoping for a shanks/luffy team up for kaido. Blackbeard can be the guy luffy has to beat to get to shanks. And I just really want to see shanks and luffy fight as partners and equals, which he totally would be after taking down big mom and blackbeard. I dont want blackbeard to be any sort of final big bad. He doesnt have the same emotional component as facing aikanu. He has some yeah, but its not the same. He is just a monstrously powerful opponent for luffy to overcome and display his new level of power. Before he heads back to marineford and snuffs aikanu out like a damn candle.
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    Yeah...don't agree. On a few levels.

    The first, there's no real indication that Big Mom is first in line for Luffy to take out when it comes to the Yonko. He flat out says he'll come back to take her out after he beats Kaido. Big Mom of course laughs at that but if there's one thing Luffy is it's honest. They beat Big Mom in what they wanted in this arc. Will they be fighting? Yeah, last chapter all but seals it. Will he defeat her? Who knows, all talk points to this arc almost being over as far as the editors of the series are concerned.

    Two. Blackbeard is way more of an emotionally charged enemy than you're giving him credit for. Look at Luffy's reactions whenever Blackbeard or his crew show up. Out and out hate. Blackbeard beat him at Impel Down. Blackbeard is the sole reason Ace is dead. If Blackbeard hadn't turned him in to the World Government none of The War at Marineford would have even happened. Blackbeard is also a massive foil for Luffy and their crews parallel one another a great deal in terms of composition. Does that means Akainu isn't in line to be a big threat? Absolutely not. But you're way underselling just how important Blackbeard is as an antagonist in the series and specifically to Luffy. Not to mention Blackbeard and his crew just recently destroyed Baltigo and might have hurt Sabo and his father.

    Thirdly. Luffy is nowhere near as strong as Shanks and having Shanks come in to help defeat Kaido sorta diminishes the whole Law/Samurai/Straw Hat Alliance. Not to mention Shanks actually has it out far more for Blackbeard (he's the dude who gave Shanks those scars on his face) than he does for Kaido. He only stopped Kaido from interfering with The War at Marineford because Shanks was worried it'd upset the balance and lead to a much larger conflict. If I had to take a guess, we'll probably see Shanks appear around Blackbeard's arc.

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    I honestly didnt know all that. I knew they were dealing with big mom and her crew as we speak so I just figured she would be first to fall to the straw hat alliance. And while kaido would be next on his list if all goes as he wishes, if he received word that blackbeard was gunning for shanks for whatever reason, I think he could be convinced to change targets.

    As for reasons to hate blackbeard, I suppose. I mean, first off, he is far from the first person to have kicked luffys ass on their adventures. Smoker as an example. Did they ever get their actual rematch? I know they met up during the whole body switching arc but that was a wash since smoker and tashigi were in the wrong bodies. You mentioned the attack on baltigo, I had honestly forgotten about that, but be serious, sabo is the only one luffy would really give a damn about. He hasnt ever even met his father. There was that one time where dragons topped smoker from killing luffy, but I dont think luffy was even aware of it at the time. I know they didn talk. And with Ace, yes, he is the one who captured ace, but I honestly think the person who physically killed him would be much higher on the list to get back at. As I said, I know blackbeard and luffy have their history, it just didnt feel to me as if it was end game boss type of history.

    He isnt as strong as shanks as of right now. He has plenty of time to get there. Toss on another gear (Im picturing inflating himself while in 4th gear till he is third gear size over his whole body) and throw in an awakening and he should be at yonko level or thereabouts. And if he DOES manage to take down a couple of yonko level enemies, I think its not unreasonable to put them on par. And furthermore, if events played out the way I suggested, after mom, luffy learns blackbeard is gunning for shanks and he shows up in time to save/assist him in crushing the guy, again, it removes that sense of diminished purpose to the alliance. After all, now shanks owes luffy one. And considering the forces under kaidos command, he could probably use every bit of backup he can get. I mean, we arent talking a doflamingo pirate crew here. We are talking an army of 500 artificial zoan fruit users as "fodder" along with the named crew members he has as well. Thats a bit more of an issue to deal with.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    I honestly didnt know all that. I knew they were dealing with big mom and her crew as we speak so I just figured she would be first to fall to the straw hat alliance. And while kaido would be next on his list if all goes as he wishes, if he received word that blackbeard was gunning for shanks for whatever reason, I think he could be convinced to change targets.
    They only went after Big Mom (and didn't...really go after her) to get Sanji back. Obviously there's the stuff with Ceaser and Fishman Island but Kaido was the goal. That's why they were in Dressrosa. That's why they got rid of Ceaser in the end. Really Big Mom is just a detour and they say as much on Zou. It just so happens she has one of the four Road Glyphs they need to reach Raftel as well which was part 2 of their mission. They've got Sanji back and they've got the Glyph so they're just running at this point. They've won, they never went to defeat Big Mom in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    As for reasons to hate blackbeard, I suppose. I mean, first off, he is far from the first person to have kicked luffys ass on their adventures. Smoker as an example.
    That's not a reason why Luffy hates Blackbeard, he's only mad he lost to Blackbeard at Impel Down because ya know...the whole thing with Ace. He wants to beat Blackbeard then and there for Ace. He lost so it's a sore spot. Not the same thing as with Smoker who...Luffy has admitted he considers a friend despite Smoker being a big stick in the mud. Smoker is to Garp what Luffy is to Gol D. Rodger though in the story. I expect Smoker to lighten up by the end of the series since...the Marines are starting to deviate from his sense of justice. Him and Fujitora.

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Did they ever get their actual rematch?
    They've fought a few times. Most recently at Punk Hazard but Smoker was in Tashigi's body and Luffy didn't consider it a fair fight. They team up with Law to take down Ceaser after. I think the day Smoker and Luffy are out and out enemies is over.

    I know they met up during the whole body switching arc but that was a wash since smoker and tashigi were in the wrong bodies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    You mentioned the attack on baltigo, I had honestly forgotten about that, but be serious, sabo is the only one luffy would really give a damn about. He hasnt ever even met his father. There was that one time where dragons topped smoker from killing luffy, but I dont think luffy was even aware of it at the time. I know they didn talk. And with Ace, yes, he is the one who captured ace, but I honestly think the person who physically killed him would be much higher on the list to get back at. As I said, I know blackbeard and luffy have their history, it just didnt feel to me as if it was end game boss type of history.
    Well sure but it's not just Luffy who has a connection to the Revolutionaries. Remember, Robin spent a good deal of time with them, enough time for Koala to call Robin "sis". As to how much Luffy wants one over the other...why not both? Impel Down showed just how much Luffy wants Blackbeard. And it's a lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    He isnt as strong as shanks as of right now. He has plenty of time to get there. Toss on another gear (Im picturing inflating himself while in 4th gear till he is third gear size over his whole body) and throw in an awakening and he should be at yonko level or thereabouts. And if he DOES manage to take down a couple of yonko level enemies, I think its not unreasonable to put them on par. And furthermore, if events played out the way I suggested, after mom, luffy learns blackbeard is gunning for shanks and he shows up in time to save/assist him in crushing the guy, again, it removes that sense of diminished purpose to the alliance. After all, now shanks owes luffy one. And considering the forces under kaidos command, he could probably use every bit of backup he can get. I mean, we arent talking a doflamingo pirate crew here. We are talking an army of 500 artificial zoan fruit users as "fodder" along with the named crew members he has as well. Thats a bit more of an issue to deal with.
    Blackbeard has no reason to gun for Shanks. Blackbeard is only interested in getting to Raftel. You're also forgetting that Luffy has the Grand Strawhat Fleet which has the highest bounty total of any fleet introduced in teh series. Higher than any of the Yonko apparently. They were introduced for a reason and there's a reason we're getting their cover stories right now. You also forget that the Mink fought and beat Jack and his crew until the gas was used on them. On top of the samurai who are fighting the Shogun and Kaido currently on Wano.

    You're also forgetting the Whitebeard Pirate Fleet Remnant who we know for a fact the Strawhat/Heart Pirate/Mink/Samura Alliance is looking for. Luffy and co went to get Sanji and the glyph from Big Mom. Zoro and Law went to Zou to start setting up for the big fight but there was a third group that went looking for Marco.

    It doesn't make much sense here to go "Oh and Shanks is here too.". Robs them all of their victories.
    Last edited by Razade; 2017-08-11 at 12:30 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    The factory that's broken apart and can't produce Smiles anymore but is still useable as a place to store things or...any number of other functions in a city that is mostly destroyed? Yeah, why would they want it around?
    Ok. That's a fair point. Though given how much there talking about not caring about being the poorest country ever or living in poverty as long as they have peace, I could see them being Dim enough to just throw the whole thing in the ocean or something if the Straw Hats DON'T take it.

    I almost liked the country better when they were setting it up at the start of the arc. Almost.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    So just to be clear. What's your plan on getting Sea Stone out of a building that couldn't be cut by strings they literally couldn't cut? How exactly are they going to get chunks of it let alone process it? Not to mention that this is the first time they've even come across it in this large of an amount and that it would be a waste to make it into projectiles. Smoker's Jitte isn't even made from Sea Stone, only coated in it, so it doesn't make a good straight weapon. Not to mention...if it was that great to use on melee weapons...why don't we see more Navy personnel with Sea Stone weapons?
    Step 1: Use the same sorts of tools/techniques, which you'd kind of have to keep on site for maintenance purposes or to expand operations (and we know Doffy would be all over expanding and was actively invested in doing so.) to cut and shape and modify it to use it to deck out Franky, Usopp and Nami's weapon's options, at the the vessels and Robot.

    Also, it's not coated, the tip is Seaprisum Stone, and the stuff has weight too it, AND is explicitly many times harder and stronger then steel or diamond. If the damn strings they couldn't cut can't cut it, and it F's with enemy Devil Fruit Powers or even shuts them down partially in terms of evening fights out by taking ultra HACK'S ability's out of the equation, that's a very worth while investment indeed for them.

    As for why it's not Navy Standard Issue, they use a fair bit of it actually, they have a monopoly control on it via The World Government, And oh, yeah, they explicitly state it's Rare and a colossal pain in the back side to lay hands on any of it TOO work with in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    Franky beat like four people in Dressrosa and Robin was (as she generally is) great at large groups of people and support. Nami is one of the only reasons (the other being Brook) that Luffy and co are doing nearly as well as they are in the current arc against Big Mom. Not everyone in the Straw Hats has to be a strong fighter. They have other roles which you'd expect from a ship full of pirates. This isn't your standard Shonen where everyone has to be tipping the "power scales" to accomplish things and arguing to try and make it so...just ignores what makes One Piece as great as it is.
    Franky damn near got killed by people who aren't even Haki Users/in possession of particularly useful or strong Devil Fruits, Six Powers Masters or Fishman Martial Arts Masters, and is THE character who's all about designing and building his upgrades and power ups.

    Robin was somewhat helpful against crowds of trash mobs, and again, was rendered totally useless by Trebolt, Gladious and very nearly killed trying to shield Rebecca from Diamantie and hurt quite badly.

    This is a show were major one on one fights against rivals/counter parts is a major thing. There clearly lining this up with the Navy and with the Yonko. She's going to need that sort of an upgrade. All of them are. That's not ignoring what makes One Piece Great. That's making sure you've got a whole group who can consistently contribute when it matters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    There's clearly more to Haki than being taught how to use it. If anyone could teach it to another person so long as they had it then it wouldn't be as rare as it is. We're told everyone has the capability of learning two of the three forms of Haki but we're not told all of what they entails. If it was as easy as just going "this is how you do it" don't you think the whole crew would have it by now? Usopp is actually a really case study in this since we actually saw him figure out Observation Haki in real time. It seems you have to become aware of your ability to do it (something Luffy already did also in Real Time) before you can start learning how to harness it on a conscious level.
    No, we are expressly stated that there really, truly, isn't, except for Conqueror's Haki.

    We are also told, canonically, that the reason Logia's are less of a threat in the new world is because to get up to a point were your combat potential matters in any way, you need Haki, and so many of the persons in the new world have it for that reason.

    This is all Canon. Absolutely Anyone can train for a bit under someone who knows what there doing and learn to use Armament and/or Observation. Most people just learn one cause of effort and time involved, but learning both is explicitly better.

    Absolutely Anyone. And nothing about it taking a crazy long time to get proficient with just one.

    All Canon. All word of god. Sorry, but I'm taking the Anime and Oda's outright statements, which contradict your assessment, to have more weight then your assessment of it and using them.

    You can't cope with Logia's with out something special. Haki is the one thing they can all have that qualifies, specifically armament Haki. If you want to keep a power gap from a story telling stand point, the obvious thing to do is just upgrade there weapons a bit to counter act the really hacks passive defenses from Devil Fruits and let them go to town. Your not making them stronger, your just making it so fighting them involves actual fighting, and not just pressing your "I Win Button.".





    Edit: I have edited this leg of the response cause, after re-reading it, I felt I came off to hot and too hostile for the conversation. If you read the previous response already I apologize for that, but the above stands.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    Does it? Exponentially huh? I think you need to calm down with your math there. Logias have already been shown to not be that big of a threat in the New World for various reasons and the Logia users who still are have ways around Haki.
    So far the way around Haki is there own Haki that I've seen. And as for not that big a threat, there not, because it has been explicitly stated that Haki is so insanely common in The New World, that almost anyone who's combat ability is anything resembling either relevant or sufficient uses it to a high enough level they can beat Logia passive defenses out right if not active defenses.

    So, yes, if you can't even meet that standard and the standard are only going to get higher and higher as you are forced to repeatedly clash with the very best The Navy, CP 0 and The Yonko have to throw out there, the greatest powers in the world, then yes, exponentially fits.



    Unless you want to tell me Doffy was loads stronger with his crew then,

    CP 0,

    The Navy's Full Top Force (Buster Calls, Akinue, The current Admirals, the top Vice Admirals, Pascifistas and whatever the hell's else Vegapunk's got cooked up that's not been shown to me yet.)

    Big Mom and her crew at top form.

    Kaido and his crew at top form.

    Blackbeard and his crew at top form.

    The Gorosie and whatever crazy stuff they have access to at the VERY top levels of the power of the world government, above even the Navy and CP 0.

    And whatever else might be a Raftiel.


    Particularly in light of Oda stating that the final Arc will make Marine Ford look like a minor side plot.







    Also noting the Blackbeard discussion, the Yami Yami no Moi was specifically called out early on as being THE exception to the Logia rule. It doesn't give you that extra measure of defense. It's why I suspect Blackbeard will at some point seek an additional Logia (Unless what ever let's him have more then 1 fruit won't let him have more then 1 Logia, which is possible.), to get that passive defense. And I expect he won't care too much about which Logia beyond that point.

    Though I also expect he will want Law's Op-Op fruit so that he can get someone to do the Surgery for Eternal Youth, and want to get Marco's fruit for the healing and physical enhancements.






    More eps.

    I hate Rebecca more and more. We are going to the Palace, we are not bringing Violet, but we are going to bring her useless butt and Kyro's, but evidently we can't get him a new Cyborg Leg or heal him up, but we are also evidently going to just not even mention the Seaprisum Stone is there.

    god damn it.
    Last edited by Metahuman1; 2017-08-11 at 05:44 AM.
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    The answer should be in the flashback.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    Ok. That's a fair point. Though given how much there talking about not caring about being the poorest country ever or living in poverty as long as they have peace, I could see them being Dim enough to just throw the whole thing in the ocean or something if the Straw Hats DON'T take it.
    Or...they could just keep it. I don't get why you think they wouldn't just keep it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    Step 1: Use the same sorts of tools/techniques, which you'd kind of have to keep on site for maintenance purposes or to expand operations (and we know Doffy would be all over expanding and was actively invested in doing so.) to cut and shape and modify it to use it to deck out Franky, Usopp and Nami's weapon's options, at the the vessels and Robot.
    Why would they have them? They're not expanding the factory with more Sea Stone. Why are you making statements like "we know" when we very obviously don't know anything of the sort?

    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    Also, it's not coated, the tip is Seaprisum Stone, and the stuff has weight too it, AND is explicitly many times harder and stronger then steel or diamond. If the damn strings they couldn't cut can't cut it, and it F's with enemy Devil Fruit Powers or even shuts them down partially in terms of evening fights out by taking ultra HACK'S ability's out of the equation, that's a very worth while investment indeed for them.
    Which they don't make. The one power in the world who coats the bottoms of their ships with the stuff aren't making weapons out of it on a mass scale. That should maybe clue you in that it's not good for weapons in general or might just be too rare to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    As for why it's not Navy Standard Issue, they use a fair bit of it actually, they have a monopoly control on it via The World Government, And oh, yeah, they explicitly state it's Rare and a colossal pain in the back side to lay hands on any of it TOO work with in the first place.
    Yeah. Which is my point. It's rare. It's hard to work with. It's more useful for other things. That's all good reason why it's not used in weapons. Which ya know...I pointed out when Khaine brought this up a thread ago and when I brought it up in my last post. There's another reason why they didn't grab the Sea Stone from the factory though that I forgot to mention.

    They were literally run out of the country right after they beat Doflamingo and had no time to harvest any from the Factory.



    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    Franky damn near got killed by people who aren't even Haki Users/in possession of particularly useful or strong Devil Fruits, Six Powers Masters or Fishman Martial Arts Masters, and is THE character who's all about designing and building his upgrades and power ups.
    He did nothing of the sort. I know the anime likes to make fights drag out/look more serious but the only person Franky had a problem with was Pink. Who is a top member of the Family and has a seriously powerful Devil Fruit. This is, of course, after he fought a ton of other people with little to no rest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    Robin was somewhat helpful against crowds of trash mobs, and again, was rendered totally useless by Trebolt, Gladious and very nearly killed trying to shield Rebecca from Diamantie and hurt quite badly.
    Robin has never displayed a good ability against single targets. She's an assassin remember? Her skills are stealth and getting the drop on people. Trebol is also the oldest of the top four, has had his Devil Fruit the longest and is the personal guard of Doffy out of the four. He's the strongest of the top 4, no questions asked. Also considering she had to fight all the people you just mentioned...yeah...she had a tough time at the end of the arc. No kidding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    This is a show were major one on one fights against rivals/counter parts is a major thing.
    Yeah and when they happen (as they've happened) the Straw Hats go up against people similar in power and strength to them. See the fight against CP9 and Nami's fight or in Alabasta or any other times she's had to go one on one. That's not an excuse to actually give power creep to the series.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    There clearly lining this up with the Navy and with the Yonko. She's going to need that sort of an upgrade.
    She gets an upgrade. Without Sea Stone. Your assertion is baseless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    All of them are.
    Another bald assertion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    That's not ignoring what makes One Piece Great. That's making sure you've got a whole group who can consistently contribute when it matters.
    I'm glad you're not writing the manga and that Oda is. He clearly knows how to display consistant growth when and where it matters. You on the other hand...


    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    No, we are expressly stated that there really, truly, isn't, except for Conqueror's Haki.
    No. No we're not. We're very clearly told that even if everyone CAN learn it, as in they have the ability, most DO NOT. There's a reason for that. A reason we're not told but a reason none the less. If it was as simple as getting a manual that wouldn't really be the case. Don't take my word for it though. Here's the actual series talking about Haki. We're shown EXACTLY how Luffy learns how to use Haki. Not by Rayleigh showing him how to use it. But by using it after they learn they can use it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    We are also told, canonically, that the reason Logia's are less of a threat in the new world is because to get up to a point were your combat potential matters in any way, you need Haki, and so many of the persons in the new world have it for that reason.
    Also no, we're not. Plenty of people in the New World don't have Haki and they have bounties at or higher than Luffy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    This is all Canon. Absolutely Anyone can train for a bit under someone who knows what there doing and learn to use Armament and/or Observation. Most people just learn one cause of effort and time involved, but learning both is explicitly better.
    The hell it is. I linked to the very clips you're wanting to use. Rayligh, flat out, says that they have to discover their combat instincts and THEN follows up that people never tap into their true potential because they're not how to use it to it's fullest. They're two separate comments. You have to learn you can use it before you can be taught to use it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    Absolutely Anyone. And nothing about it taking a crazy long time to get proficient with just one.
    Canon would disagree with you. It takes Luffy two years to become as proficient as he is with Haki. Same with Zoro and Sanji.


    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    All Canon. All word of god. Sorry, but I'm taking the Anime and Oda's outright statements, which contradict your assessment, to have more weight then your assessment of it and using them.
    They don't. I know it's a bummer but I've been using Word of God and canon from the get go. Oda also hasn't made any outright statements on Haki or how to use it. I had a good chuckle though about the anime being "canon" considering all the filler. A+ Meta. A+.


    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    You can't cope with Logia's with out something special.
    Like blood against a Sand Human! No Haki required!! Or Lava beating Flames because they're hotter! No Haki required. Haki isn't the only way. It's just the best way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    Haki is the one thing they can all have that qualifies, specifically armament Haki. If you want to keep a power gap from a story telling stand point, the obvious thing to do is just upgrade there weapons a bit to counter act the really hacks passive defenses from Devil Fruits and let them go to town. Your not making them stronger, your just making it so fighting them involves actual fighting, and not just pressing your "I Win Button.".
    You're ignoring the fact that "most people don't learn how to use it" and "you've got a teacher like me" aren't talking about the same thing. Maybe it's more clear in the manga, dunno. Was pretty clear to me in the clips I posted. Also pretty clear from Usopp discovering and using it for the first time in the Dressrosa arc.


    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    So far the way around Haki is there own Haki that I've seen. And as for not that big a threat, there not, because it has been explicitly stated that Haki is so insanely common in The New World, that almost anyone who's combat ability is anything resembling either relevant or sufficient uses it to a high enough level they can beat Logia passive defenses out right if not active defenses.

    So, yes, if you can't even meet that standard and the standard are only going to get higher and higher as you are forced to repeatedly clash with the very best The Navy, CP 0 and The Yonko have to throw out there, the greatest powers in the world, then yes, exponentially fits.

    Unless you want to tell me Doffy was loads stronger with his crew then,

    CP 0,

    The Navy's Full Top Force (Buster Calls, Akinue, The current Admirals, the top Vice Admirals, Pascifistas and whatever the hell's else Vegapunk's got cooked up that's not been shown to me yet.)

    Big Mom and her crew at top form.

    Kaido and his crew at top form.

    Blackbeard and his crew at top form.

    The Gorosie and whatever crazy stuff they have access to at the VERY top levels of the power of the world government, above even the Navy and CP 0.

    And whatever else might be a Raftiel.
    Of course not. But exponentially more powerful? No. You're being hyperbolic and that was my point.


    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    Particularly in light of Oda stating that the final Arc will make Marine Ford look like a minor side plot.
    He never said that. He said the last chapter (CHAPTER) will make The War at Marineford look like a side trip.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    He never said that. He said the last chapter (CHAPTER) will make The War at Marineford look like a side trip.
    Really? I would expect the last chapter of a series this long to be the calm ending after all the fights and everything else have been resolved. What could possibly be accomplished in a single chapter to eclipse an entire arc?
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    So I just discovered where I got my blackbeard versus shanks thing from. Total stupidity and easy confusion. It was from watching captain kid form his own alliance to take on shanks... shortly before kaido fell from the sky and practically landed on him. I forgot who it was that was actually gunning for shanks and thought kid had always been going after kaido for some reason. my bad. I also for some reason though blackbeard had gone off on some sort of self imposed mission to take down the yonko. I know he was after devil fruit and went after the remnants of the whitebeard crew. But looking it up, I may have confused him being acknowledged as a yonko with gunning for them. Heh. This is what I get for watching everything out of order and only through random 2-3 minutes clips on youtube.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cizak View Post
    Really? I would expect the last chapter of a series this long to be the calm ending after all the fights and everything else have been resolved. What could possibly be accomplished in a single chapter to eclipse an entire arc?
    That was the actual comment from Oda. It was made about 6 years ago so who knows. It might just be a translation thing, it may have just been a side comment. I was just correcting for accuracy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    This is what I get for watching everything out of order and only through random 2-3 minutes clips on youtube.
    Yeah, that is exactly what you get.

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    Default Re: One Piece V: Black Leg Wedding

    I have been thinking a little more about Seastone, and come to the conclusion that how its used are just one of those things that needs to be ignored by the reader for the sake of the story, the same way as logistics, physics and all the other stupid awesome things that regularly takes place in the world of OP. (im sure everyone has their own examples of this)

    Because as such, Seastone is needed for a lot of things in the story. Like explaining how DF users are kept as captives and transported around. And to set up plot situations like the one in the Enes Lobby arc, with the hunt for those keys. Or to explain why Zorro/Luffy cant smash though a given wall.

    But at the same time, the problem is that its far to effective as a weapon. In a more logical world every group would be hoarding shards of this, to effectively counter enemy DF users. And that would ruin the dynamic of the world. It would reduce Admirals or Yonko from terrifying monsters to glass cannons that could be taken out by a few scrubs with a Seastone club and some bad luck.

    And at the same time, its needed to build walls and cuffs, so you cant say something on the line of "Oh.. its because its super rare, almost noone has enough for a weapon".

    So we have a storyteller reason for why there isnt more Seastone weapons in use. And i guess we are then left to come up with a in-world explanation on our own.
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    Yeah there are a lot of holes to work with. How about this? Its a fairly rare material in existence (at least compared to other elements) and is completely controlled by the world government. And finally is absurdly difficult to work with, requiring proprietary techniques held on the level of top secret restricted access type things. So they have this limited resource, it gets prioritized for the specific general needs, and the only way anyone could ever hope to get some is to be favored by somebody really high up the chain or to inherit it from someone who was. Thats why smokers jitte is so unique, because they flat out dont make those things barring powerball lottery levels of odds. They have fleets to build, prisons to maintain, and other such major drains on resources. Creating seastone bullets seems like a great idea, but that seriously risks it getting out of their control and into the hands of pirates. Suddenly their admirals are just as vulnerable to a sniper shot as any basic mook. It would escalate warfare to an unacceptably deadly level.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cizak View Post
    Really? I would expect the last chapter of a series this long to be the calm ending after all the fights and everything else have been resolved. What could possibly be accomplished in a single chapter to eclipse an entire arc?
    Well given the shows themes, its probably the One Piece being some super weapon that can control the entire oceans of the entire planet.

    like, Oda once said that the One Piece wasn't some cliched friendship or Luffy's hat, and since the four pirate emperors are really strong and only respect strength, what could possibly give someone enough strength to be an uncontested King of All Pirates? what could possibly be so great that the Navy itself would cover up an entire century? what could possibly be so great that it would override all the devil fruit powers? complete control over the ocean. its the one power that no one has, and if anyone did have, would:
    -completely destroy any Devil Fruit user
    -would destroy anyone sailing a ship, IE everyone
    -flood any island.
    -would explain a great and powerful civilization that once existed but fell- they basically created the greatest super weapon of the One Piece world and used it to rule everything, and of course the Navy covers it up because do you really want people knowing about and thus going after a powerful super weapon that could single-handedly destroy the Navy?
    -makes perfect sense for both Gold Roger and Luffy to not use at all, given that Gold Roger was an adventurer who was dying and Luffy is in it for the journey not the destination.
    -makes perfect sense for Blackbeard/lava admiral to use if he ever gets it and decides he wants to rule the world
    -makes perfect sense for Gold Roger to encourage people to find it as a screw you to the Navy, as it increases the chances of someone finding it who could actually hold onto the One Piece longer and use it.
    -gives EVERYONE a reason to find it and fight over it.
    -suitably epic conclusion to it all that makes perfect sense while at the same time making sure Luffy wouldn't actually use such a thing, because Luffy is too focused on the journey to want to use such a weapon.
    -after all, it can't be mere gold or treasure, since Nami gets those all the time, what would be point of one more shiny trinket?
    -it can't be a symbolic thing, since Pirates wouldn't respect that, they respect the Emperors because they're strong and competent, and thus very little reason to fight over it.
    -could be named because it makes all the oceans in the world "one piece you control."
    -makes perfect sense that controlling water in a world of water would be a story breaker power and thus best left for the final chapter/arc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    I have been thinking a little more about Seastone, and come to the conclusion that how its used are just one of those things that needs to be ignored by the reader for the sake of the story, the same way as logistics, physics and all the other stupid awesome things that regularly takes place in the world of OP. (im sure everyone has their own examples of this)

    Because as such, Seastone is needed for a lot of things in the story. Like explaining how DF users are kept as captives and transported around. And to set up plot situations like the one in the Enes Lobby arc, with the hunt for those keys. Or to explain why Zorro/Luffy cant smash though a given wall.

    But at the same time, the problem is that its far to effective as a weapon. In a more logical world every group would be hoarding shards of this, to effectively counter enemy DF users. And that would ruin the dynamic of the world. It would reduce Admirals or Yonko from terrifying monsters to glass cannons that could be taken out by a few scrubs with a Seastone club and some bad luck.

    And at the same time, its needed to build walls and cuffs, so you cant say something on the line of "Oh.. its because its super rare, almost noone has enough for a weapon".

    So we have a storyteller reason for why there isnt more Seastone weapons in use. And i guess we are then left to come up with a in-world explanation on our own.

    There's so much wrong in that assumption.

    1. The largest force in the world has almost sole control over Sea Stone Production. Sea Stone is a liability to their own forces, why would they mass produce it? It destroys their own power by proliferating it or allowing others to do the same. Why would you let someone hand out tools that basically make your top people useless? You don't.

    2. Sea Stone is rare and it's more useful for other things. Containing Devil Fruit Users is more important than being able to fight them. Because for one thing Devil Fruit Users are rare in the world, not rare in the story. Why spread a lot of weapons to fight a foe that you can fight via other methods? Logia are explicitly the most rare of all Devil Fruits (Under Mythical Zoan but w/e), wasting Sea Stone on the possibility of one is a terrible terrible tactic.

    3. Haki. Haki is something people can use and doesn't require resources, time or special tools.

    4. Calm Belt Navigation. We're told that's where the majority of Sea Stone goes into. Bottom of boats so the Marines can have unparalleled navigation abilities around the world.

    5. Vegapunk. We're told that he's the one who created the idea of coating the bottom of the ships the Marines have with Sea Stone in the first place and he discovered how to manipulate it in the first place. Research the World Government undoubtedly wouldn't want to share.
    Last edited by Razade; 2017-08-11 at 05:02 PM.

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