[Meme] Who Would Win?

[Zombulian]

You posted something on the internet; you really should have known better.

*Sigh* Yeah you're right. I just felt bad that my post would have contributed nothing to the thread but pointing out that this meme is, in fact, not recent at all.

[The_Jette]

How does one exactly optimize pun pun though? If he is pun pun it doesn't matter if he's 5th level or 5quintillionth level, he's infinite

It doesn't really matter, though, does it? Since his character sheet is still shredded, regardless.

Are you accusing me of trolling or..?

I intended to drop the multiverse tangent after that post, I was just wanting to relate something that touched upon the idea of fighting the multiverse.

I apologize if that was unwelcome.

No, I was not accusing you of trolling. Zombulian called it.

[jdizzlean]

[IMG]




In fact, if this commoner lives happily in the Kingdom of Ultimate Evil and has dedicated his life to, oh, I dunno... Father Llymic? He gets a free deformity feat. So he can take Willing Deformity, and then Deformity (tongue) for Blindsense out to 30 ft. This negates the ambush completely. He can also take Cloak Of The Obyrith out of Fiendish Codex I to gain DR 1/lawful. And now he is cat-proof.

Sure, he has the taint of demonic ancestry in his blood and he's pledged himself to the destruction of all that lives, but that's a small price to pay for the ability to safely run off a stray feline. And of course once Father Llymic unmakes the world, there won't be any cats.

why don't you just apply a bunch of completely irrelevant things to the cat. a cat could worship a god, have some goodies from the BoED, and completely lay waste to the evil commoner just as easily. hell, the cat could potentially be a rank 5 master of any church from the complete divine. the argument is about a unmodified commoner vs an unmodified cat.

[Menzath]

Who would win,

All of the elder evils,

Or a 20th level monk?

[The_Jette]

why don't you just apply a bunch of completely irrelevant things to the cat. a cat could worship a god, have some goodies from the BoED, and completely lay waste to the evil commoner just as easily. hell, the cat could potentially be a rank 5 master of any church from the complete divine. the argument is about a unmodified commoner vs an unmodified cat.

Okay, so a commoner has a d4 hit die, and a +0 to hit with the one simple weapon they're proficient with (in this example a spear). They have an AC of 10, since there's no Dex bonus or NA bonus. You end up with +0 to hit, vs AC 14 for 1d8 damage (avg 4.5) and one attack per round. Spears don't have reach, though; that's longspears.

Cats have an AC of 14 (+2 Dex, and +2 Size) with a 1/4 d8 as their hp. So, commoners and Cats have an average of 2, with the commoner having a possible 3. But, they get +4 to hit with a claw attack, and a full attack of +2/+2 claws, and -1 bite, each doing 1 damage. So, if the cat waited until the human was next to it, and took its turn to do a full attack against the human (5' step into the commoner's space then full attack) there's a 65% chance that each claw hits, and a 50% chance that the bite hits. That leaves us with about a 21% chance that a common housecat that gets the drop on a commoner drops the human to 0 or -1 hp in a single round of combat. If the human has 3hp, and the cat misses on the bite, that means the human needs to take a 5' step back, since I'm fairly certain you can't attack into your own square (not positive on this one), and gets one chance to hit the cat. The cat has an AC of 14, meaning the commoner has a 30% chance to hit. On a hit, the average damage kills the cat. But, there's a 12.5% chance that he doesn't do enough damage to drop the cat. The cat then gets to go. Commoner gets an AoO for the cat entering his square. Another 30% chance to hit. Then, the cat gets another round, and the commoner probably dies. Honestly, the house cat still has an above average chance of winning the fight, if they get the drop on the commoner. That's sad.

[The Viscount]

Who would win: A 10th level Frenzied Berserker with a 35 strength or a wet floor?

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Frenzied Berserkers cannot make balance checks while in frenzy, so grease can stop them.

Who would win: A sneak with superior invisibility or a sack of flour?

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Flour reveals invisible creatures.

Who would win: A foul demon or a lucky punch?

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The Nashrou from MMIV is instantly killed by a critical hit.

Who would win: The sneakiest of rogues or a pet dog?

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As Piggy Knowles discussed in the necessity of Darkstalker, scent ignores Hide/MS.

[Zombulian]

Who would win,

All of the elder evils,

Or a 20th level monk?

God, that thread was incredible. Where the heck has Tippy gone?

[Firechanter]

God, that thread was incredible. Where the heck has Tippy gone?

I missed that thread, what was the idea?

[The Viscount]

I missed that thread, what was the idea?

The concept was to bring down all of the elder evils using a character with if not 20 levels, as much monk as possible. There was no restriction to PO, so people went all out with Tippy-level stuff.

[Menzath]

It was fun. I made a sneak based build that relied on ranged attacks(mostly the spell blood wind).

I think the first to clear it was a pure strength power throw build that could 1shot most of them, and if not had a full attack of throws after moving into range thanks to some shenanigans.

[Zombulian]

The concept was to bring down all of the elder evils using a character with if not 20 levels, as much monk as possible. There was no restriction to PO, so people went all out with Tippy-level stuff.

ECL 20 with at least 17 levels in Monk or a Monk-based PrC*

It was called "Tippy's Terrifically Terrible Trial"

[ahenobarbi]

The concept was to bring down all of the elder evils using a character with if not 20 levels, as much monk as possible. There was no restriction to PO, so people went all out with Tippy-level stuff.

Does anyone have a link? I can't find it :(

[ShurikVch]

Who would win,

All of the elder evils,

Or a 20th level monk?

It's strongly depend on the conditions of "win"

For example, Sertrous is already dead.
Not "mostly dead". Not Undead. Not Construct. Not Petitioner.
Just dead.
How could Monk top that?
Kill him one more time? Big deal - Sertrous wouldn't be worse than at the start of the story

Or Atropus.
Atropus is a planet.
Can monk destroy the planet?

And finally, if we put aside the "gladiator's pit" mentality, we will see the truth: without the DM fiat, Elder Evils would win WO - how the heck you will find somebody who is hidden under the Anathematic Secrecy, constant CL 20 Nondetection, and have CL 18 greater invisibility prepared?
Monk doesn't even have neither Gather Information, nor Knowledge (local or/and dungeoneering) on the skill list...

[jdizzlean]

Honestly, the house cat still has an above average chance of winning the fight, if they get the drop on the commoner. That's sad.

one final thing that everyone has overlooked. after getting hit you assume the commoner would take a step back and attack again, or wait for the cat to enter his square. BUT, the cat would simply flop over on it's back, producing the commonly known "stomach rub trap" that everyone KNOWS is a trap, but still reaches in to rub that belly. then the cat would get the AoO+a full attack after that.

even if the commoner won initiative, the cat would probably just do this anyways to lure him in.

game/set/match cat.

[Zombulian]

Does anyone have a link? I can't find it :(

Just search the name that I provided.

ECL 20 with at least 17 levels in Monk or a Monk-based PrC*

It was called "Tippy's Terrifically Terrible Trial"

It's strongly depend on the conditions of "win"

For example, Sertrous is already dead.
Not "mostly dead". Not Undead. Not Construct. Not Petitioner.
Just dead.
How could Monk top that?
Kill him one more time? Big deal - Sertrous wouldn't be worse than at the start of the story

Or Atropus.
Atropus is a planet.
Can monk destroy the planet?

And finally, if we put aside the "gladiator's pit" mentality, we will see the truth: without the DM fiat, Elder Evils would win WO - how the heck you will find somebody who is hidden under the Anathematic Secrecy, constant CL 20 Nondetection, and have CL 18 greater invisibility prepared?
Monk doesn't even have neither Gather Information, nor Knowledge (local or/and dungeoneering) on the skill list...

Look at the thread, win conditions were fairly well accounted for IIRC.

[ShurikVch]

Look at the thread, win conditions were fairly well accounted for IIRC.

Yes, I know:

Build an ECL 20 (or lower) character that has at least 17 levels of Monk (PrC's that advance Monk levels are allowed) and can solo every challenge in the Elder Evils book.

But it doesn't explain neither how to avoid "lose by WO" situation, nor how to fix "Obligatum Infinity" problem

[Venger]

Does anyone have a link? I can't find it :(

here you go.

[Zombulian]

>recent
how about a classic:
who would win, a commoner with a spear or a common housecat?

I actually forgot the Giant himself made this joke.

[danielxcutter]

I actually forgot the Giant himself made this joke.

Mr. Scruffy's much more powerful than the bog-standard housecat, though, as he's the animal companion of Belkar, a very high-level ranger.

[Inevitability]

Mr. Scruffy's much more powerful than the bog-standard housecat, though, as he's the animal companion of Belkar, a very high-level ranger.

Urban Companion, more likely. Cats aren't valid animal companion options.

[danielxcutter]

Urban Companion, more likely. Cats aren't valid animal companion options.

Oh, really? I didn't know that.

[Âmesang]

Who would win between Raistlin Majere and Elminster of Shadowdale?

……wait, Mordenkainen already asked that one.

[danielxcutter]

Who would win between Raistlin Majere and Elminster of Shadowdale?

……wait, Mordenkainen already asked that one.

I need CONTEEEEEXT!

Uh... yeah.

[atemu1234]

Who would win, a 20th-level wizard or a Sorcerer King? This is pretty specific to this forum, and I won't explain the joke.

[JNAProductions]

Who would win, a 20th-level wizard or a Sorcerer King? This is pretty specific to this forum, and I won't explain the joke.

I believe it was established that a 1st level Commoner wins, by virtue of being a legal build. :P

[atemu1234]

I believe it was established that a 1st level Commoner wins, by virtue of being a legal build. :P

Not if I stubbornly refuse to admit I'm wrong.

[ben-zayb]

Who would win:

The towering menace that is the Iron Golem,

or a puny Rust Monster or two?

[Âmesang]

I need CONTEEEEEXT!

Uh... yeah.

DRAGON Magazine #359, p.84—the last physically printed issue of the magazine (that I'm aware of) had an article detailing the pros and cons of the two mighty magi as if they would be pitted against each other… and at the end you find out that the "pitter" was making the arrangements on behalf of his boss, Mordenkainen.

(That same issue also featured the last chapter of Ed Greenwood's series of short stories, "The Wizards Three," where Elminster, Morndenkainen, Mord's apprentice, Rautheene, and a returning Dalamar all visit Ed's house once again.)

[The Viscount]

I believe it was established that a 1st level Commoner wins, by virtue of being a legal build. :P

Are you taking shirtless hunks into account though?

Who would win: A Tyrannosaurus skeleton or a fake picture?

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Mindless creatures are tricked by illusions.