Relationship Woes and Advice XXVIII: Happy and Perfect!

[Lissou]

Where do you guys live? I'm in the US and I've always asked out guys I'm interested in (both in California and in Oregon) and not a single one of them has found it weird (although they did say no).

[sktarq]

Where do you guys live? I'm in the US and I've always asked out guys I'm interested in (both in California and in Oregon) and not a single one of them has found it weird (although they did say no).

West Coast....While it was 20 years ago going to the east coast I was shocked by the hoops women (okay girls) would jump through in order to get a guy to ask them out where I was used to them just asking if they were that interested. So wide regional and generational variation exists.

[Recherché]

Washington and California, and it's been slightly unusual but not unheard of for women to ask out men. Personally I've rarely asked out anyone of any gender but I'm uber shy about that. I also grew up in the South as a small child and yeah its a lot more uncommon there for women to ask men on a date.

[2D8HP]

Where do you guys live? I'm in the US and I've always asked out guys I'm interested in (both in California and in Oregon) and not a single one of them has found it weird (although they did say no).

In early 1980's California, more girls asked me out than I asked out when I was young teenager. By the late '80's I asked more women out than asked me out, but I still got asked out a few times by women in the 1990's after I stopped asking because I was in a committed relationship.

In the 21st century no one has asked me out, I think because I now look like a Goblin (and no not the "Goblin King", which I looked more like in the mid 1980's).

To illustrate:

Spoiler: 2D8HP looked more like this in the 1980's

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Spoiler: 2D8HP looks more like this now

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[Liquor Box]

I'm from New Zealand, and here it is usually the man who asks out the woman, but it is sometimes the woman who asks out the man - it's not taboo or anything.

[Stadge]

I'm in the UK, and I'm not sure if my input helps as I've mostly stumbled organically into things rather than actually asked someone out. Like, it's always been a thing that was going to happen with enough time, but in 50% of those cases she made the move to make it actuality.

Also, is it ok to give an update to a previous post even if it's no longer a 'woe'? (Although I'm now having other, unrelated to that relationship concerns)

[8BitNinja]

Hey guys. I replied here a while ago, and I never really gave you an update.

So I did talk to her finally, and she said that she wanted to focus on other things before a relationship.

Even though it wasn't a success, I just want to thank everyone who helped me through this.

[VoxRationis]

Grew up in Oregon, now living in Minnesota. I have only once received explicit notice of attraction from a woman. A fair number in high school said I was attractive, but in way which is similar to how they affirmed their female friends. Now, it is possible that I am simply thoroughly unattractive, and my demeanor through much of high school and college was also not conducive to encouraging female attention.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Long time no see! I stopped checking this thread a while ago because real life got super busy, but things have settled down now, so I might be able to offer more terrible advice...

Where do you guys live? I'm in the US and I've always asked out guys I'm interested in (both in California and in Oregon) and not a single one of them has found it weird (although they did say no).

I'm UK. Grew up in the south-east, now living in Scotland. I don't really do relationships myself (those I have been involved in have generally been stumbled into) but as far as I can tell, it's still more common here for men to ask women out than the other way around. Not as much as it used to be, but old habits die hard.

[Sivarias]

Southeast US.

I want to be clear that's it's not "weird" in the negative way for a woman to ask a man out. But it only happens when there is something exceptionally attractive about the dude. Every guy I know would be grinning from ear to ear for weeks if it happened to them because it's so rare.

There was an interesting study done on it that I can never find when having this conversation but always find it when random surfing. It essentially breaks down why men don't realise why unwanted compliments make women uncomfortable.

Essentially men don't ever get appearance compliments and cherish then when they happened. The numbers IIRC stated that the average woman will get more appearance compliments in a month than a man will get in his entire life.

[Crow]

My two most successful relationships have been with women who approached me.

I have turned down women who approached me; but the two where I said yes ended up being far more successful relationships than any which I have been the one to initiate.

I attribute this to the women willing to take the first step being more assertive and decisive; which eliminates a lot of the guesswork when trying to navigate bumps and disagreements in the relationship.

[Velaryon]

I'm not sure if this thread is the best fit for this situation, but I couldn't think of a better place for it either, so here goes.

I'm a Teen Librarian at a public library, but still fairly new to the job. I expect to be exposed to more than my share of teen relationship drama during my career, but this time it might actually require some action from me (or maybe not, that's what I'm hoping to determine here).

Anyway, here it is:

There's some drama between two of my Teen Advisory Board* kids, one of whom is also a library employee. I've stayed out of it thus far, but I'd like some opinions on whether that's still the best thing for me to do. It's worth mentioning that I have only been at this library for a little over 6 months, so I haven't known either of these teens too long.

*Teen Advisory Board is a monthly thing where junior high and high schoolers come in and talk in a group setting with me and with each other about library stuff in general, like pitching program ideas and suggestions for improving the teen space. They also get free snacks and it counts as volunteering.

Irene** is a senior in high school who has been involved with the library for a long time, was a regular at programs for years, highly involved in TAB, and currently works part-time in our circulation desk.

David** is an autistic teen who is a high school freshman and was homeschooled until very recently. He has few if any friends, often comes to TAB but rarely speaks up.

**Names have been changed to protect privacy.

Some time ago, David asked Irene out. She tried to let him down gently and offered to remain friends. He did not get the message, and showed up to the library one day with flowers for her. She was forced to tell him more bluntly that she wasn't interested. This led to David's mother (who is normally a nice woman but is fiercely overprotective of him) to tell off Irene while she was trying to work for not being interested in her son ("Why isn't my son good enough for you?" kind of thing). Irene's coworkers in her department spoke to the mother about why it was inappropriate for her to act that way.

I was not present for any of this and only learned of it a couple months after the fact, so I thought by then it was settled (especially because I hadn't seen David at the library in awhile, though I don't know whether this is why). However, at this week's TAB meeting, Irene informed me that if David came, she would leave immediately. Not five minutes later, he walked in, and she immediately made an excuse and left.

Irene is fairly mature for a high school senior and I certainly don't blame her for not wanting to be around someone that makes her uncomfortable. I hate for her to feel unwelcome in TAB, but I also don't feel that I can or should ban David just because he asked her out and had trouble understanding when she rejected him. Is staying out of it the right thing for me to do?

[Cozzer]

Is staying out of it the right thing for me to do?

As long as things don't escalate more than this, it is. Not all problems can be solved by the outside, and trying to solve them as an outsider only creates more problems. The real culprit here is the mom, you can't unmake the crap she created. It will probably tone down over time, as long as outsiders (as well-intentioned and informed as they might be) don't butt in.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Is staying out of it the right thing for me to do?

I think I'd stay out of it, if it were me in your position. I mean, you don't really know either of these people; I don't get the impression that you consider them 'friends'. Irene seems to be able to handle herself and she's got coworkers who'll stick up for her when necessary. Do you feel like David is still suffering from the rejection/in denial about it? It might be worth putting an arm around him and trying to help him get over it, if that's a thing you think you can do, since he might not have many close friends...

[Florian]

Is staying out of it the right thing for me to do?

Yes and no.

Check with your co-workers and boss. A lot of work places have rules for orderly conduct or work regulations of some kind, while in some positions/functions, you're expecting to act in a certain way, or at least inform your superiors.

That's necessary, because the girl is two things, at times an "employee" of your library when working her part-time job, and a "private person" while sitting in the TAB.

For example, it could be that you have to step in when stuff comes up while she's working or when things will be disruptive for your TAB. Else? Don´t do it.

(The thing with the mom is weird.)

[Chen]

If Irene is just uncomfortable around him but there hasnt been any further action on his part, theres nothing to do. Its her choice to not continue being around him. If David is continuing to pursue her though then he needs to be spoken to and if it persists banned from the group since continued unwanted advances after its been made clear is unacceptable. The mother is just making things worse but theres not much you can do about that except intervene should she start trying to lecture again.

[Anonymouswizard]

Some time ago, David asked Irene out. She tried to let him down gently and offered to remain friends. He did not get the message, and showed up to the library one day with flowers for her. She was forced to tell him more bluntly that she wasn't interested. This led to David's mother (who is normally a nice woman but is fiercely overprotective of him) to tell off Irene while she was trying to work for not being interested in her son ("Why isn't my son good enough for you?" kind of thing). Irene's coworkers in her department spoke to the mother about why it was inappropriate for her to act that way.

I was not present for any of this and only learned of it a couple months after the fact, so I thought by then it was settled (especially because I hadn't seen David at the library in awhile, though I don't know whether this is why). However, at this week's TAB meeting, Irene informed me that if David came, she would leave immediately. Not five minutes later, he walked in, and she immediately made an excuse and left.

Irene is fairly mature for a high school senior and I certainly don't blame her for not wanting to be around someone that makes her uncomfortable. I hate for her to feel unwelcome in TAB, but I also don't feel that I can or should ban David just because he asked her out and had trouble understanding when she rejected him. Is staying out of it the right thing for me to do?

Okay, Autistic person's view here.

I can understand why David is acting like he is, as being let down gently is very confusing, so Irene was right to be clear as soon as it was obvious there has been a mixed message. David is not in the wrong, Irene is not in the wrong, as long as David has not continued then there is no real problem, and Irene leaving because she's uncomfortable with David is just something that you'll have to accept for now and maybe help them reconcile later (ideally after David moves on and is in a stable relationship, which might take so long it's effectively 'never'). In fact, if Irene is uncomfortable enough that she sees walking out of something she has put a lot of effort into as preferable to being in the same room as David, she's at least trying to stop the situation from escalating any further.

If David hasn't stopped then there is a problem and somebody who he respects has to talk to him. Ideally this would be his parents, but according to you his mother took the wrong track. He has to be told that yes, he might like her, and the fact she doesn't like him might hurt, but he has to stop what he's doing because it's hurting her. His mother is literally doing the worst thing here, and somebody should explain to her that her efforts to protect him are just going to cause pain to him or somebody else somewhere down the line.

But apart from speaking to his mother and maybe talking to David if this continues, staying out of it is the right thing to do.

Spoiler: Not related to this discussion

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Dammit, I'm still missing my ex, and want to talk to her to try to work out exactly why this happened. Still not trying to contact her, at least for weeks, no matter what my friend says about 'come on, this should have been over a week ago'.

Heck, the fact she broke up with me doesn't really bother me anymore, it was probably for the best. But the fact that she essentially ran and made it impossible for me to contact her even if I wanted to? It hurts me, partially because I was taught that when you do something wrong you try to put it right. The fact I can't even try makes me lie awake at night.

[Glass Mouse]

Wait. What kind of title is Teen Librarian? As in, are you in a management position over these kids? Or are you a peer? Google is inconclusive.

If you are a peer, yes, absolutely, stay out of their drama.

If you are in a management position, I actually think you should interfere a bit. Irene was basically harassed at work by David's mother who is so out of bounds here I can't even. I mean, just. Wow.

If I were Irene's manager, I would probably sit her down and talk about it. My main goal would be letting her know that I am aware an issue is going on, and that management will back her up in avoiding or expelling David's mother if she causes further trouble. Basically, give her a course of action if this repeats. I would do this both because it is the right thing to do, and because Irene is valuable to the library and you might lose her if she thinks that staying means further harassment.

Also tell her that David has done nothing really wrong, and that you cannot punish him for his mother's crimes. Irene is free to avoid him if she needs to, unless it starts interfering with the work you are actually paying her to do. (or David does something actually inappropriate, in which case you will of course crack down on that).

Who knows, maybe just knowing that she has backup if things go south will be enough to let her endure David's potentially-harassment-causing presence.

I would also be tempted to check in with David. At my job, we have regular 1:1 talks with management, so such would be easy to initiate, but I'm not sure what options you have at the library. Mostly I'd just want to get a sense of whether he is aware his mom was out of bounds. It would be valuable intel about what to expect in the future. But I wouldn't go out of my way to talk to him unless his mom goes off the deep end again.

But any and all interfering is contingent on you being their manager. If you are just a peer, do not engage.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Wait. What kind of title is Teen Librarian?

Gotta say, I was totally imagining a librarian with slicked-back hair, indoor sunglasses and one of those dodgy leather jackets from the 1980s.

[Aedilred]

Irene is fairly mature for a high school senior and I certainly don't blame her for not wanting to be around someone that makes her uncomfortable. I hate for her to feel unwelcome in TAB, but I also don't feel that I can or should ban David just because he asked her out and had trouble understanding when she rejected him. Is staying out of it the right thing for me to do?

Ugh, that does seem like a mess. As the others have said, what you should do ultimately depends on your position relative to them. If you're a peer of theirs, stand well clear. Unfortunately, if you have a management or supervisory role, it may be one you have to grit your teeth and deal with.

Spoiler: What I would suggest doing, if you have to do anything

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First off, I would talk to David privately. I would say to have a frank, avuncular talk with him, but given his autism you might have to be more direct. It might be necessary to involve his mother, as she might be able to communicate with him better in a way he will understand. (On the other hand, her conduct to date suggests she may not be an ally in this regard).

Tell him that while you don't think he meant it, his behaviour was inappropriate and it made Irene feel uncomfortable, and that she is very upset. As a result of this, she doesn't want to be around him any more. Also try to ensure he knows that his mother's behaviour was completely out of order and it was inappropriate to get her involved (this may need to be delicately couched). If he understands this, ask him to write an apology to her and give it to you to pass on. Tell him that he shouldn't come back to any sessions until he has done this.

Then go back to Irene and talk to her. Hopefully, as the older of the two individuals and also not being autistic, she will be the more intuitively reasonable of the two. Tell her that you are completely on her side as far as this goes, but remind her that David is autistic and probably did not mean to cross any lines. Tell her about your conversation with David and that you have asked him to apologise.

(There are two main advantages to a written apology over a verbal one. Firstly, that putting it in writing means he will have to think more carefully about it and may be able to express himself better than in person. Secondly, it doesn't require any further direct contact between them: he can make the apology independently of her having to listen to it. If she doesn't want to know, you can take the note from him and thank him for it and just not pass it on.)

He may not come back at all. He may not think he has done anything to apologise for and refuse to apologise. His mother might tell him not to. There's not much you can do about that. But if he does do this, make sure he knows that while he is once again welcome, his attendance is conditional on him not making any further approaches to Irene. If he does, he will have to stop coming altogether. You might advise, to make sure that he gets the point, that it would be best if he didn't talk to her at all and not sit next to her during sessions.

I would also suggest to her that while you understand why she feels uncomfortable with him there, you don't think it's fair to ban him given his behaviour so far. You might even ask her if she really thinks that would be fair under the circumstances. See if the two of you can come up with ways to manage the situation, even if that is meeting with her privately or splitting the group up into separate sessions. Ask if she'd be willing to give him another chance, on the proviso that if it happens again he'll be barred from attending.

Hopefully, and if you go a good job of presenting it as finding a fair solution that works for her, and ultimately her decision, she will be reasonable and agree to attend sessions again even if he's there. If not, you may be able to work out something else.

Unfortunately, high schoolers, even relatively mature ones, are just about the least reasonable people in the world (toddlers and grumpy septuagenarian man-children notwithstanding). But it's probably worth a try.

[lio45]

I haven't yet read the others' advice, but in my view someone (ideally someone with first hand experience with autism) should speak to David, give him friendly advice on how to try to "force" himself to act in conventionally accepted ways that seem artificial to him.

Irene obviously doesn't need any help or intervention.

[Anymage]

Something seems off here. If this is months old stale drama, it seems awfully coincidental that Irene happens to bring it up the exact same day that David decides to come back after a long absence.

Some of this hinges on, as mentioned above, whether you're a peer or a superior. More depends on what channels you can get information through. (Irene probably doesn't want to rehash everything when you're just some random acquaintance, but there might well be a gossip network that can tell you if there were more to the story.) But the ultimate answer depends on parts of the story we're not seeing.

If the "problem" is just David working up the nerve to reappear at a public place months down the line, instead of disappearing forever, there really isn't anything productive you can do. Without a justifiable cause for booting him, your only real option is to stay out of things. You can run interference to keep him from approaching when everybody is generally mingling, but there's little to be done in a round table style setting.

If David has done more than just have the nerve to reappear and you just haven't heard the whole story, you need to ask people who have better access to information. Depending on what you learn, this can lead to anything from having to talk to him and explaining why he needs to give Irene extra space, all the way to booting him.

[Liquor Box]

As a couple of others have said, it is your position that determines whether or not your should get involved. I think you should consider your involvement separately with respect to each of your roles.

The library is likely to (local laws may differ) to have a legal duty to protect its employees from harm in the workplace, and most jurisdictions would extend this to protecting them from harassment or undue stress.

If you are in a management position in the library you should get involved if you think that Irene's safety (including safety from less tangible things like stress and harassment) is under threat. Protecting Irene should be the library (and by proxy, your) first priority as her employer, even if that comes at the expense of David. If protecting Irene can be achieved by asking David or his mother to leave Irene alone when they visit the library, then that will suffice. If that is not sufficient, you may want to consider banning them from the library (be careful though, trespassing a person from a public space may have legal difficulties), although it doesn't sound like such a strong step is required at this stage.

Of course, if you are just Irene's co-worker you should not get involved except maybe as her or David's friend (if you are).

It sounds like you are the convener of the TAB group, and that group may not have the same legal duties as the library as an employer. However, it sounds like Irene is not prepared to attend the TAB meetings with David, and this may mean you have to choose between letting her quit or asking David not to come. It doesn't sound to me like David has done anything wrong (although you can't be sure if something has happened behind the scenes), so you probably shouldn't ask David not to come.

[Algeh]

(situation about one person leaving when another person comes due to past issues)
Is staying out of it the right thing for me to do?

First, my recollection is that you are an adult library employee rather than a peer. My advice for a peer would be different.

Step one: if you have some kind of library policy handbook, go read it. See if there's anything relevant in there. (If there isn't one, that might be a thing that someone should do something about in general, but that doesn't solve your problem today.)

Then, I suggest that you talk to the other coworkers who handled the blow-up with David' mother to find out more information, since it sounds like you may be missing context. Try to find out if anything was put in place in way of boundaries or interventions (did David stop showing up to TAB for a while because he was asked to take a break for a specific length of time which has now passed, for example) and if there are other parts of David's (or his mother's) behavior that you need to be aware of. (You may also want to talk to Irene's supervisor, since Irene may have ALSO been told specific things to do or not do after the David's Mom Incident. You need to know what those things are if so.) You need to know most of all if any specific consequences, rules, and/or plans were put in place already by the library for any of this and what everyone involved has already been told to do/not do.

After you feel like you have as much context as you can get from other people, and you know what policies there may be that may or may not apply, try to find a time to talk to Irene. Before you have that meeting, make sure you have some idea what you can offer in terms of solutions (will David still be attending the meetings? Can she give her input at another time? Can you set up a situation in which they both attend the meetings but he is not allowed to approach her? etc. - specifics will vary depending on what you learn from your policy dive and your understanding of the context and what each of them has already been told).

Your goal should be to give her a chance to be heard about all of this. She may or may not want to re-hash the whole thing, but she may want to talk about how uncomfortable she is being around David and advocate for the ability to avoid him (which is a reasonable thing for her to want to do). Give her whatever options you've come up with that fit policy, and help her figure out what she can do to feel comfortable and contribute as much as she wants to given the circumstances. (Obviously, if you learn new information from her that changes the possible options - such as additional unwanted contacts outside of work by David after he'd been told to stop interacting with her at the library - you may have to change your side of this conversation on the fly or tell her that's new information that means you need to go do more research to see what other options are in play.) Help her come up with a plan (or affirm that you're ok with the plan she's already come up with if her plan is to leave the meetings and that's how it's going to be), and let her know that you still want her input in other ways even if she doesn't feel comfortable attening those meetings under these circumstances (give her a way to give that input).

If she does agree to be in the meetings even if David stays, do NOT leave them unsupervised together or expect them to work together on projects. It's unclear if David has a clear idea of how this all went so wrong (since his mother may not have been a great help to him in that regard, unfortunately), so putting as much structure as possible into the situation and keeping them from needing to interact may be your best option to keep him from causing her further upset (without necessarily meaning to).

[Velaryon]

Okay, looks like I need to provide a bit more information and clarification.

1. Teen Librarian means that I am responsible for library programming for teens, outreach to teens, and managing the young adult library collection. I myself am in my 30's, not a teen.

2. Irene is an employee, David is not. Both of them have been coming to the library for much longer than I've been working here (and Irene has been working here longer as well). She and I work in different departments, and while I am higher up the hierarchy than she is, I am not her supervisor.

3. Everything I know about the situation is secondhand or thirdhand. I was not present for anything that happened. I have not personally spoken to David or his mother. Irene was a bit vague about what happened, so most of what I know is

My goals here are first, to make sure that Irene feels safe and not threatened by his presence (after all, this is her workplace); second, to make sure that David understands what happened and why he went a little too far (how to understand rejection, why asking someone out in their workplace is not appropriate, etc.); third, to figure out how to proceed going forward.

I've spoken to my supervisor (who is also the acting director until we hire a permanent one), the children's supervisor (who is not involved but was my predecessor and knows both teens better than I do), and plan to speak to Irene's supervisor later today (so that she knows Irene is still uncomfortable, and so I can get a better idea of what steps were taken at the time). I likely won't see Irene until Wednesday, at which time I plan to speak to her as well, find out whether there's anything more to the story I need to know, and what I can to do help her. I will try to speak to David as well (and his mother, if nobody has spoken to her yet), but I don't know when I will have that opportunity.

Something seems off here. If this is months old stale drama, it seems awfully coincidental that Irene happens to bring it up the exact same day that David decides to come back after a long absence.

She didn't bring it up. I had seen him in the library earlier in the day (for the first time since I learned of the trouble between them) and spoken to him. I felt it prudent to warn her that he might be coming to the meeting, which is when she told me she would leave if he came. All the same, given that the original incident was at least a couple months ago and the strength of her reaction, I want to find out for sure whether there's anything else going on.

[ve4grm]

It sounds like you're doing the right things, then. Your responsibility to make sure the teen programming runs well. This is affecting that. You don't have the authority to act on anything, so you're bringing it to the people who do. And you're checking in with everyone involved.

I'd advise not talking to David or his mom without the approval of your director, though. If the mom is reactionary like it sounds, you don't want to risk escalating anything.

[FinnLassie]

It sounds like you're doing the right things, then. Your responsibility to make sure the teen programming runs well. This is affecting that. You don't have the authority to act on anything, so you're bringing it to the people who do. And you're checking in with everyone involved.

I'd advise not talking to David or his mom without the approval of your director, though. If the mom is reactionary like it sounds, you don't want to risk escalating anything.

Agreeing with this. You're taking the right steps, and right now your task is to make sure the gal is doing ok. It'll very likely make her feel much more comfortable in her work environment too, knowing that people are aware of the situation and are ready to take action if needed.

I'd advise only talking to David if he does this again.

[Chen]

I'd advise only talking to David if he does this again.

Wait does what again? He didn't do anything wrong in the first place besides misjudge a "let's still be friends" statement is really meaning "I'm not at all interested in dating you".

What his mother did was the largely inappropriate thing, but he can hardly be blamed for that.

[Liquor Box]

; second, to make sure that David understands what happened and why he went a little too far (how to understand rejection, why asking someone out in their workplace is not appropriate, etc.)

From your description it doesn't sound like David went to far, or did anything else wrong.

Your original description doesn't mention any adverse reaction to rejection from him at all - it says she tried to let him down gently (ie not explicitly), he didn't understand the hint, so the next time he made an advance on her she was more blunt.

Also, it is ok to ask someone out in their workplace. I know of, and I expect most people here know of, numerous successful and ongoing relationships which began as a workplace romance. Remember the context here between David and Irene was not one of service provider and customer, but one where the two belonged to the library group together, which just happened to also be Irene's place of work.

Unless there is something David (not his mother) did which you haven't mentioned I think it would be wrong of you to try to explain that he did something wrong, because he did not.



I think the library has a responsibility to ensure that Irene is free from harassment in her workplace, which may mean stopping the mother (but not David, who has done nothing wrong) from berating her - but you have clarified that you are not Irene's employer or supervisor so it is not your responsibility. You have passed on what happened to your supervisor, now your role in this drama is now at an end.

If Irene feels uncomfortable around a person she rejected, that is something that she will have to work through, it is not David's fault, nor your job to make sure she's ok. Hopefully, as she get older, she will find such things less awkward.

Unless something occurs where David or Irene act inappropriately in the context of your library group, there is nothing more you need to do here.

[ve4grm]

Wait does what again? He didn't do anything wrong in the first place besides misjudge a "let's still be friends" statement is really meaning "I'm not at all interested in dating you".

From your description it doesn't sound like David went to far, or did anything else wrong.

Your original description doesn't mention any adverse reaction to rejection from him at all - it says she tried to let him down gently (ie not explicitly), he didn't understand the hint, so the next time he made an advance on her she was more blunt.

While David didn't (seemingly) do anything horrible, I think it's quite fair to say that continuing romantic advances, including bringing flowers, after the initial rejection is "a little too far." Not a punishable level, to be certain, but further than Irene wanted.

I also think it's understandable why he didn't understand the initial rejection, and thus he shouldn't be in trouble for just that.

This is why I suggested they not talk to David unless he continued in his advances, or is still trying to pursue a romantic relationship. That would be a potentially more serious issue, and would need to be dealt with. If this is the case, then I'd still get official approval before talking with him.

That said, it could be useful to talk with him after everything settles down, anyways. Not to punish him or anything, but to make sure he understands what's wrong with what happened, and maybe help him not make that mistake in the future. It certainly doesn't seem like his mom is going to be helpful in that regard. But I would only do that if I was in a mentor role with David, which Velaryon may or may not be. (It doesn't quite sound like it, but as Teen Librarian maybe it is?)

If Irene feels uncomfortable around a person she rejected, that is something that she will have to work through, it is not David's fault, nor your job to make sure she's ok. Hopefully, as she get older, she will find such things less awkward.

I would guess that, if nothing else has happened, she's uncomfortable around David because she doesn't want to risk dealing with his mom again. I'd find it very hard to blame her for that.

Regardless, they both serve on the TAB, and Velaryon leads the TAB. So while it's not their job to fix a relationship issue, it is their/the library's responsibility to ensure the TAB runs smoothly. This may include mediating between members, as a good manager (or HR rep) might do. But it's not our call to make.