Relationship Woes and Advice XXVIII: Happy and Perfect!

[dehro]

So... I'm not quite sure if this is a problem or a perception issue, but I think I've fallen into a certain nervousness about talking to people I'm not familiar with without a professional or academic reason for it. It's the chink in my confidence. If I'm working at an event, I don't generally have any problem chatting it up with other people there. Or if I'm in a class working in a group, I definitely have no issue socialising and taking the lead. Striking up a conversation with whoever happens to be sitting next to me the first day of class, also no big deal.

Buuuuuuuuuut there seems to be a glitch in the system when it comes to actually walking up to somebody and initiating an interaction. In the other scenarios, I can fall back on 'well, you're sitting next to me, might as well talk and get to know each other if we're going to be here all quarter, right?' or 'I'm working at this event, so it's not like it's weird to make the rounds and make sure people are having a good time'. Those are all situations where I have an excuse to fall back on, so I can feel free to be as social as I like. Because of 'excuses' like that ('they happen to be sitting next to me/we happen to be grouped up at the moment') I've fallen to conversation with a classmate of mine a couple of times, obviously nothing super deep but certainly more than just small talk, and enjoyed it enough to think I'd like to befriend them. But I keep hitting this block where I'm thinking 'well, I'm going to have to just walk up and strike up a conversation to befriend them... but who just approaches somebody and starts talking to them for no reason? They'll think I'm Ted Bundy or something.'

Basically I have a little voice in my head saying it's super weird to just talk to somebody, and I'd sure rather pass up the chance at a friendship than be seen as weird, or make somebody uncomfortable. And I never have this problem any other time-- people I meet for the first time have even told me I come across pretty confident and friendly, but they obviously don't realise it's because I have that excuse to fall back on, because I didn't just walk up to them and start talking. But sometimes, it seems to me, just walking up to somebody and talking to them is how you make friends, so... am I right to be trepidatious or is that little voice just paranoid?

It's quite common. I'm 39, I work in sales and will talk quite a bit with people in a work setting.. or when I'm debating things with people I already, more or less directly know. When the time comes to chat up someone I have no link to whatsoever, I will feel like a moron and freeze.
To overcome this, I have found that focusing on the topic I want to talk about rather than the person I'm talking to helps. So I'll talk your ears off about a few select topics... or draw a blank and skulk back to a dark corner. Alternatively, breaking the ice over the internet works wonders for me... and once I have talked to someone over the internet, transitioning to RL is much much easier...
This is just me though.

[lio45]

No no no, that's not how it works. Work on some self confidence first, and then, with a smile, start chatting with total strangers about the first thing that pops up in your mind. You'll find that you're a lot more interesting than you ever gave yourself creddit for.

An obvious risk of starting like that is that if total strangers are approached clumsily with completely irrelevant comments, they might not be very receptive to the idea of having a conversation, and that high failure rate will likely be bad for self-confidence, creating a new problem.

It's already better to be somewhat of a "complete stranger conversation virgin" than it is to start from a self-confidence point where you've tried a bunch of times and failed.

I agree with your "work on some self-confidence first", which is exactly why I was suggesting starting carefully with easy situations so that you can build up self-confidence through early minor successes.

[Comrade]

You'll find that you're a lot more interesting than you ever gave yourself creddit for.

Your problem is your fear that you won't be able to keep the interaction, because you semi-consiously "sensor" yourself in fear of saying something irrelevent, stupid or socially unacceptable.

I don't think that's really the problem I've got. I've never been afraid of the actual conversation itself-- I generally trust myself to be able to maintain an interesting conversation with the people I'm engaging with, once I've engaged with them (and if the other person just isn't receptive and isn't giving me much to work with, I don't have an issue with respectfully disengaging). I guess I've just got an anxiety that starting the conversation will be seen as weird if there isn't a direct academic or professional raison d'etre for it, or that I'll be thinking 'hey, there's that person I've chatted with a couple of times, I should go chat with them now' and they'll be thinking 'does this weirdo think just because we've spoken in class a couple of times I have any desire to talk to them more?'

Maybe that's still a self-confidence problem. Don't really think it's a fear of not being interesting or blurting out something dumb.

[S@tanicoaldo]

Yes. I know we have a few polyamory-experienced people among the regulars in this thread (one of whom has already PM'ed me, thanks!). I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around the emotional side of it, and so I just need an inside perspective.

My experience with polyamory relationships is that is the same with the usual relationships but more (shocker I know), you need to be ready and mature, so in a poly relashionships you need to the double, triple or four times the level of maturity and security.

People are complicated, they are needy, selfish and problematic relashionships are about learning to deal with that part to enjoy the good bids and in polyamory there is more people involved so even more problems, sure the good bits are also great and follow the same logic but if you don't feel you are ready don't do it since it will involve a bunch of people.

See the pros and cons and only take the decision if you think you are ready never do it because someone you like is pressuring you to do it.

[Anymage]

My experience with polyamory relationships is that is the same with the usual relationships but more (shocker I know), you need to be ready and mature, so in a poly relashionships you need to the double, triple or four times the level of maturity and security.

I worry about lines like this, because we see what happens when we see people say things like "advanced option, only for mature people". You have a lot of people who have no idea what they're doing jumping in, trying to prove how "mature" they are.

I like to talk about boring things, like how there are only so many hours in a day. And unsexy things, like how in a poly situation your partners will have other partners too. (Which, given the nature of time and the difficulty in being two places at once, means that that you'll get a smaller share of any one person's time and attention.) The upside of dating multiple people sounds cool. But if someone is turned off by the downsides, you want them turned away early.

I don't think that's really the problem I've got. I've never been afraid of the actual conversation itself-- I generally trust myself to be able to maintain an interesting conversation with the people I'm engaging with, once I've engaged with them (and if the other person just isn't receptive and isn't giving me much to work with, I don't have an issue with respectfully disengaging). I guess I've just got an anxiety that starting the conversation will be seen as weird if there isn't a direct academic or professional raison d'etre for it, or that I'll be thinking 'hey, there's that person I've chatted with a couple of times, I should go chat with them now' and they'll be thinking 'does this weirdo think just because we've spoken in class a couple of times I have any desire to talk to them more?'

Maybe that's still a self-confidence problem. Don't really think it's a fear of not being interesting or blurting out something dumb.

Those are basic nerves. Everybody gets them. The same way that everybody thinks that everybody just spotted those minute screwups you just made, or that the reason someone hasn't immediately gotten back to you is because they hate you. Realizing that everybody else is just as neurotic and screwed up as you are can be freeing.

If you want to get more comfortable approaching people out of the blue, the best thing you can do is practice. Start up random conversations with broad swathes of people. As you do so and the sky continually fails to fall, you'll realize that the worst case scenarios your brain is spinning won't actually come to pass.

[S@tanicoaldo]

I worry about lines like this, because we see what happens when we see people say things like "advanced option, only for mature people". You have a lot of people who have no idea what they're doing jumping in, trying to prove how "mature" they are.

I like to talk about boring things, like how there are only so many hours in a day. And unsexy things, like how in a poly situation your partners will have other partners too.

Well, that wasn't a thing with me since we all lived together and we were all together, the only problem I had was people wanting more than I can give and having to deal with two people who had needs, wants and desires, it can be a bit overwhelming, sometimes you just want to be with yourself, my experience is that poly is quite suffocating because you have to talk and justify yourself to two or more other people rather than one which to me was already boring enough.

So is not for me.

[lio45]

I guess I've just got an anxiety that starting the conversation will be seen as weird if there isn't a direct academic or professional raison d'etre for it

That's perfectly normal. That's why my recommendation was to start with trying to watch for opportunities to make comments for which there is an actual "raison d'être" even when made to perfect strangers. You're likely to find that there's less of a psychological barrier for you to approach someone when what you're saying is relevant to the context you guys are in rather than just random conversation.

Anything that just happens while you're together that's really out of the ordinary, generally, is a pretty good opportunity to comment to a random stranger that has good odds of turning into a conversation.

Anything related to you that would justify an explanation would also be pretty good.

Anything related to them that looks odd / particular enough to justify a (friendly) question would also be good.

[lio45]

To give a real life example (I have plenty), which I figure might help you seeing what I mean, a couple years ago I was stuck in a city 2,000+ miles away from home for a week or so while I was waiting for an engine part for my truck to arrive via postal service. I normally walked everywhere while I was vehicle-less but with this pretty big and really heavy box, I had to take the bus.

Upon arriving to my bus stop (sweating profusely...), I finally put my box on the ground saying out loud something along the lines of "phew! That's really heavy!" (while looking friendly and social and outgoing as I generally always do.)

It was a big cardboard box so some complete stranger was of course curious and asked what was it in, so I explained. We ended up in a conversation that lasted the entire bus ride, talking mostly about our trucks but also his job, my career, etc.

[Comrade]

If you want to get more comfortable approaching people out of the blue, the best thing you can do is practice. Start up random conversations with broad swathes of people. As you do so and the sky continually fails to fall, you'll realize that the worst case scenarios your brain is spinning won't actually come to pass.

That's perfectly normal. That's why my recommendation was to start with trying to watch for opportunities to make comments for which there is an actual "raison d'être" even when made to perfect strangers. You're likely to find that there's less of a psychological barrier for you to approach someone when what you're saying is relevant to the context you guys are in rather than just random conversation.

Good suggestions. Probably going to feel convinced at least a couple of times that I just came across as a complete weirdo, but, you know, no pain no gain.

[Anymage]

Question for ladies who are active on OKC. Roughly how many profiles do you see with the yellow "liked you" marker, and roughly how many do you see with the blue "messaged you" marker?

I'm curious as a dude to what degree one of those markers will trigger at least a curious profile visit, vs. to what degree there's already enough blue/yellow out there that it doesn't meaningfully affect your browsing habits.

[Glass Mouse]

Question for ladies who are active on OKC. Roughly how many profiles do you see with the yellow "liked you" marker, and roughly how many do you see with the blue "messaged you" marker?

I'm curious as a dude to what degree one of those markers will trigger at least a curious profile visit, vs. to what degree there's already enough blue/yellow out there that it doesn't meaningfully affect your browsing habits.

I don't know how many I see. If I'm very active, messaging people and answering questions and such, I guess I see a couple stars a week? For me, they make a definite difference. It is no guarantee, of course, but I send quite a lot of messages that go unanswered (especially on tinder), and so a "super like" is at least a good chance that I'll get an answer back, which is neat. So at the very least I always check out the profile of someone who has done that.

[Stadge]

Hey Playground, I'm back, because its been a long time since I've done the single thing and I am both awkward and oblivious.

The last time I was here it was about a friend I liked. I still do, but I'm trying not to and I don't think its worth pursuing. We've hung out a few more times, and we definitely do click still, and get along very well. Sadly not been ideal circumstances to actually, you know, say anything. As I said last time, we messaged a lot. We still have long in-depth conversations, but time there is increasing, and I feel I've maybe slid in her priorities.
So like I say, I'm trying there to move past any feelings I'm having, despite grinning inanely anytime I get a message from her.

I've also now on an unrelated note, potentially confused other aspects of my life:

Spoiler: Spoilered for length/embarrassment

Show

Ok, the other night I ended up alone at a club with a friend (not the one above). And by friend, really acquaintance is closest- We have mutual friends but I'd only met her twice before. I know very little about her, mostly her name, biggest hobby and that she had been recently in a fwb situation with another of my friends. We ended up in this rock club together because earlier she had invited me and some others to a quiz she was running- I couldn't make it due to other plans, but she said they'd be at the club after. My plans came to an and and I didn't really want to go home and sleep so I got in touch, found out other people had bailed and she was there solo, wasn't staying too late cos of an early work start, but would be happy for company. So yeah all good. So yeah, I'll head, it'll be good to stay out a bit later- but with a time limit if she was leaving, and you know, more exposure to getting used to the awkwardness that is dancing.

It was a nice time, good music, couldn't really talk. We ended up going past her unofficial 'curfew' time and then, I'm still not entirely sure how it came about- but we kissed. A lot. In the club, walking to her car and when she dropped me off. It was kind of implied the evening would have gone further if she didn't have work so early. It might just be that I've not been in a situation where I've kissed anyone for quite some time, but I'm pretty sure it was really, really good kissing. And you know lots of smiling and giddiness, because, kissing is nice.

We've messaged since, mostly just normal stuff, but also things a long the lines of 'That was really nice, we both have awkward work weeks, but we should repeat that at some point' and I'm not averse to that, but I don't know what either of us wants, or if this is something i should be doing.

Every other time in my past (well, ok, maybe not the beginning of uni, so like 9 years ago now) If I've kissed someone, I've already really liked them and wanted things to work out (and to be honest, can be a bit too keen). Here I don't know her- all I have is that we have physical chemistry.

I don't know how to proceed. I know she's in a similar boat of not knowing me that well, which is reassuring, but I don't know what she's after from this if that makes sense? Or even how to ask that, if indeed I should? Or if I should just try not to think, see what happens, and address seriousness if and when its necessary?

From my view- I'm so confused- I don't think I'm after a relationship, but I'm also aware that could just be as I don't know her, and knowing her better might change my thoughts there, so its not a definite no. I've never really done casual things, but if that's what she's after, I would probably try. And then there's the trying to not like the friend I mentioned above.

I was miserable for a long time in my last relationship, but part of me is missing the simplicity...

Cheers for reading my rambling again

[Anonymouswizard]

Well (almost) two months on from my breakup, and I'm now at the point where I'm switching between totally fine and 'oh god what have I done' based on the time of day. I really should move on, but I'm struggling to because when it was going well it seemed so perfect and I'm not sure I'll be able to get that again.

I mean, yeah, I'm being an idiot. But gah, I'm still in that place where I don't really want to see anybody else. I'd beat myself up about it, but I'm enough of a masochist that it would backfire.

[Glass Mouse]

I spent almost as much time getting over my last relationship as I spent in it because it was just so close to good.

You're fine. It's okay to still be processing and grieving, and that fear that you'll never find anyone as good is echoed by everyone who ever broke up with a perfectly nice partner who just wasn't right for us. These things take time. As long as you're moving forward and not wallowing, no one gets to tell you when you should be "over" something.

[Anonymouswizard]

Why would I want to wallow? It sounds like something that would drive away my friends. They already have trouble with the fact I make jokes about the breakup.

And even if I was in a position where I had a chance of getting together with her again, do women really like men that wallow? Just seems like a stupid idea all around.

I do want to see if there's a knife skills course somewhere near me though, I'm getting back into cooking (which means bye bye long hair, I need you out of my way).

[Comrade]

I echo what Glass Mouse said. Breakups generally take a little bit to 'get over', especially when-- as is your case, feel free to correct me if I'm misremembering-- it's your first one. There's nothing necessarily wrong with still feeling bummed out from time to time about how things ended up, that just comes with the territory of ending a relationship you thought had great potential. That being said, if you're making so many jokes about the breakup that your friends have noticed and taken umbrage with it, you might want to cut that out. That just keeps you fixated on the breakup, which is only going to make it harder for you to move past the processing stage.

Getting back into cooking is a great idea, though. In my experience, a very good way to progress from these things is to just throw yourself into a new hobby, or into some old ones. Learn something new, or work on old skills you maybe neglected.

[Anonymouswizard]

I should specify it's less the number of jokes and more the type (such as 'nobody here is a jerk' 'my ex would disagree', or joking that a friend is trying to set me up with somebody so soon, and even those ate about once a week).

When I'm not being self depreciating my friends are actually really supportive, even the one half the world away. My humour just gets on their nerves some of the time. At least one is just exasperated with my xenophilia (although her type gets made fun of just as much).

[sktarq]

.... It's okay to still be processing and grieving,....As long as you're moving forward and not wallowing, no one gets to tell you when you should be "over" something.

I would actually say it more than okay. NOT processing and grieving can be a really bad thing. It can lead to problems in future relationships (where the ex can basically haunt the new relationship even if they are not going to be back together for emotional, distance, or death reasons just as one type). It can also leading you to look for a person who is good as an emotional balm for your current problem but not good for you long term....which can become a habit. Other issues....I could write a bloody dissertation if I let myself.

So take your time. Work through it. Ask your friends if you're wallowing occasionally just to make sure you're not falling into the trap at the other extreme but work through it.

and on shorter (1 month to 1 year) relationships a 1:1 timescale isn't abnormal at all.

[The Fury]

Know what sucks? Breakups. Maybe not so much for people that are OK at letting things go and moving on, but I'm terrible at that. Maybe just because I keep getting told that moving on isn't always the best option. Particularly when you break up with friends that still care about you.

In case context is relevant, here goes: I'm probably going to be facing some involuntary relocation in the future. The relationship I have with my friends is one I feel like I understand very poorly, so rather than add an additional layer of complication with the long-distance factor I decided to simply break it off. For their part my friends took it well. For my part, I'm not doing so great... at all. In fact, I'm literally, physically hurting over this. I might've had something special, it's just a shame that I couldn't make it work.

[Anonymouswizard]

Know what sucks?

Vacuums.

Breakups.

Oh yeah, those too. Pretty majorly in many cases.

Maybe not so much for people that are OK at letting things go and moving on, but I'm terrible at that. Maybe just because I keep getting told that moving on isn't always the best option. Particularly when you break up with friends that still care about you.

True. Anyway, context time, I'll reply after that.

In case context is relevant, here goes: I'm probably going to be facing some involuntary relocation in the future. The relationship I have with my friends is one I feel like I understand very poorly, so rather than add an additional layer of complication with the long-distance factor I decided to simply break it off. For their part my friends took it well. For my part, I'm not doing so great... at all. In fact, I'm literally, physically hurting over this. I might've had something special, it's just a shame that I couldn't make it work.

As somebody who has a long distance friendship (I'm in the UK, my friends are in China), it's very different. Especially if neither of you can afford to visit the other, so you never meet face to face. Even of you were still friends with then there would likely be long periods of time when you didn't speak to each other. If you do want to continue your friendship with any of them be aware that it might end up anywhere from you talking a few times a year to sending them messages or calling them* every day, depending on how close you are. I've got an open invitation to my LDF's wedding when it actually gets off the ground, so they can work really well, although for that one I've had about three fizzle.

Now I'm going to be honest, without getting somebody else to go and talk to your friends, we kind of can't know how they're taking it. But it makes a lot more sense that you'll be the one feeling like ****, unlike them it sounds like this has essentially cost your your entire social circle. Social circles are very important, what stopped me from feeling the way you do after my ex broke up with me was a friend I hadn't talked to in months making sure I was okay.

If you do get relocated then you'll likely make new friends. No, I have no idea how people do it, I'm still confused as to how I have friends. But clubs and events and all that jazz. If you don't, I hope your friends are willing to get back together with you.

* My long distance friendship revolves around instant messaging, but that's because I'm from the first generation to grow up with it, calling somebody feels weird to me.

[The Fury]

Now I'm going to be honest, without getting somebody else to go and talk to your friends, we kind of can't know how they're taking it. But it makes a lot more sense that you'll be the one feeling like ****, unlike them it sounds like this has essentially cost your your entire social circle. Social circles are very important, what stopped me from feeling the way you do after my ex broke up with me was a friend I hadn't talked to in months making sure I was okay.

To my credit, I don't feel like crawling under a rock to die anymore. So I might be getting better. I still feel like garbage though.

If you do get relocated then you'll likely make new friends. No, I have no idea how people do it, I'm still confused as to how I have friends. But clubs and events and all that jazz. If you don't, I hope your friends are willing to get back together with you.

They told me that they would be willing to get back together with me once my situation normalizes. Only I'm not sure that they get how long I'll have to be away. Now, I'm not saying this to be overly dramatic or gloomy, but have you ever had a relationship end and think, "maybe this kind of relationship was never for me?"

This is how I'm feeling right now.

[Chen]

In case context is relevant, here goes: I'm probably going to be facing some involuntary relocation in the future. The relationship I have with my friends is one I feel like I understand very poorly, so rather than add an additional layer of complication with the long-distance factor I decided to simply break it off. For their part my friends took it well. For my part, I'm not doing so great... at all. In fact, I'm literally, physically hurting over this. I might've had something special, it's just a shame that I couldn't make it work.

I honestly can't fathom this type of approach when it comes to a regular group of friends. Look a romantic partner fine that's separate circumstances. I mean realistically friendships are hard to support over long distance without being able to do things together and all, and in many cases they will fall apart. But why force the matter? Why intentionally end the friendships prematurely? I have a number of friends who have moved all around the world. Sure we don't talk that often but every now and then they'll be in the neighborhood for whatever reason and we'll still get together for a drink or something. If that friend had instead told me "well I'm moving, so I guess this friendship is over" I would frankly be insulted. Clearly I don't expect the same thing from a friend is thousands of miles away compared to a friend who is down the street so whats the harm in staying friends? To me it feels like saying "well I'm going to an area of the world where there are a lot of unexploded land mines, so I'm going to amputate both my legs beforehand to be ready for it". Much in the same way you may blow your legs off if you move to a country that has a lot of unexploded ordinance, you may lose your friendship with some people if you move away for a significant period of time. But you may not. And there doesn't really seem to be much of a cost to keeping that door open rather than closing it pre-emptively.

[The Fury]

I honestly can't fathom this type of approach when it comes to a regular group of friends. Look a romantic partner fine that's separate circumstances.

Yeah, I'm not really built for romantic partnerships. Platonic relationships are about as close as I can come to having one, and I'm wondering if I'm not built for those either.

I mean realistically friendships are hard to support over long distance without being able to do things together and all, and in many cases they will fall apart. But why force the matter? Why intentionally end the friendships prematurely? I have a number of friends who have moved all around the world. Sure we don't talk that often but every now and then they'll be in the neighborhood for whatever reason and we'll still get together for a drink or something. If that friend had instead told me "well I'm moving, so I guess this friendship is over" I would frankly be insulted. Clearly I don't expect the same thing from a friend is thousands of miles away compared to a friend who is down the street so whats the harm in staying friends? To me it feels like saying "well I'm going to an area of the world where there are a lot of unexploded land mines, so I'm going to amputate both my legs beforehand to be ready for it". Much in the same way you may blow your legs off if you move to a country that has a lot of unexploded ordinance, you may lose your friendship with some people if you move away for a significant period of time. But you may not. And there doesn't really seem to be much of a cost to keeping that door open rather than closing it pre-emptively.

Needing to move wasn't where my problems with maintaining the relationship started. I'd been having trouble with demanding work schedules, family health issues and all that made me have to cancel on folks more often than not. It's also made me moody and weird the times I have been available. I've been a difficult person to deal with for months now, and the fact that my friends haven't gotten angry or frustrated with me speaks well for them. I was already having a difficult time maintaining the friendship and I feel like adding distance as another factor is only going to make things worse.

[Chen]

Needing to move wasn't where my problems with maintaining the relationship started. I'd been having trouble with demanding work schedules, family health issues and all that made me have to cancel on folks more often than not. It's also made me moody and weird the times I have been available. I've been a difficult person to deal with for months now, and the fact that my friends haven't gotten angry or frustrated with me speaks well for them. I was already having a difficult time maintaining the friendship and I feel like adding distance as another factor is only going to make things worse.

So what is this maintenance you're talking about? Your friends don't seem to be having any issues with your moodiness or lack of available time. Why are you basically saying you know better than them how they feel about it? Pre-emptively cutting off relationships because you feel that you're being a burden on the other people, without them showing any indication of it, is self-destructive. It generally comes from low self-esteem issues and/or depression. Don't do it.

Now if you are not getting what YOU want out of the relationship, that's different. But that's certainly not the impression I'm getting from your posts. All the deficiencies you're talking about are on your side and it seems like you're assuming you're being a burden to your friends. Let them tell you that before acting on something you think is an issue.

[zimmerwald1915]

Let them tell you that before acting on something you think is an issue.

Alternatively, ask for their opinions on the matter. Silence is ambiguous; they might think nothing is wrong, or they might be trying to spare your feelings, or they might be hoping the issue resolves itself with time. Someone has to break the silence, and it might as well be you - not with a declaration of intent, but with a questioning "here's how I feel, how about you?"

[The Fury]

So what is this maintenance you're talking about?

Just the give and take that comes with interpersonal relationships. The whole needing to be a friend to have friends.

Your friends don't seem to be having any issues with your moodiness or lack of available time. Why are you basically saying you know better than them how they feel about it? Pre-emptively cutting off relationships because you feel that you're being a burden on the other people, without them showing any indication of it, is self-destructive. It generally comes from low self-esteem issues and/or depression. Don't do it.

"Burden" might not be the word I'd use, though I do feel like I take a lot from them but don't give much in return. I admit that I do have self-destructive tendencies-- maybe it would be best if I didn't go into it too much. Though I think it might be worth considering that I'm just a bad friend.

Alternatively, ask for their opinions on the matter. Silence is ambiguous; they might think nothing is wrong, or they might be trying to spare your feelings, or they might be hoping the issue resolves itself with time. Someone has to break the silence, and it might as well be you - not with a declaration of intent, but with a questioning "here's how I feel, how about you?"

I have asked their opinions on the matter. The consensus is that they want me around because they just like me, this makes me uncomfortable. I'm OK with folks keeping me around because I can fulfill some utilitarian function like housework or keeping them on task for a project. Or even something like they need someone to round out their player party. Someone that wants me around for no other reason than they enjoy my company though? I'm not used to it and it feels strange. Maybe because it doesn't feel earned?

[WarKitty]

So this is a more lighthearted one.

What does one do on dates at night? I'm on night shift, and date is on very late hours, but that leaves the question of what that's not a bar is open at 2am.

[Stadge]

So this is a more lighthearted one.

What does one do on dates at night? I'm on night shift, and date is on very late hours, but that leaves the question of what that's not a bar is open at 2am.

Don't suppose there's any nice 24 hour cafe's or anything like that near you? When I was in London BarPolo was great for that because despite the name it was pretty much a food place, did ludicrously tasty food and at that time of night was always quiet so they didn't mind you lurking for a while.

Otherwise, anywhere safe to walk and enjoy the night ambience? (Though I'd only recommend it if you sure you'd feel safe with the person your on a date with) When I was at university a lass and I sued to both go for 2am strolls in the fields, we realised we might as well stroll together, that turned into late night picnics, us realising we liked each other and becoming a couple. We'd still do the walks later on in the relationship.

Karaoke bars are often open late and drinking isn't strictly necessary?

Are there any good and big fresh produce markets- if you hold on long enough you'll get to the point where they're opening up early in the morning and you can browse whilst the restaurant crowd are buying stuff?

Edited: Forgot to say, yay for the date!


In Stadge related things- my post above can probably be discarded. I get the impression she's much keener than I am, meeting her for lunch today and I'm gonna try and what we're both wanting- I expect I'll end up asking if we can go back to being friends. Well, become friends is probably more accurate- we'd had like two short conversations before alcohol and dancing and chemistry made things more confusing.

[Chen]

Just the give and take that comes with interpersonal relationships. The whole needing to be a friend to have friends.

"Burden" might not be the word I'd use, though I do feel like I take a lot from them but don't give much in return. I admit that I do have self-destructive tendencies-- maybe it would be best if I didn't go into it too much. Though I think it might be worth considering that I'm just a bad friend.

I'm curious as to how you're making that judgement. You seem to be saying you're not providing enough for your side of the friendship. But your friends, the people you're ostensibly providing to, don't seem to have that impression. It'd be like a restaurant continuing to tell me "I didn't give you enough food!" and me saying "No its fine, I'm full", yet them continuing to throw food at me.

I have asked their opinions on the matter. The consensus is that they want me around because they just like me, this makes me uncomfortable. I'm OK with folks keeping me around because I can fulfill some utilitarian function like housework or keeping them on task for a project. Or even something like they need someone to round out their player party. Someone that wants me around for no other reason than they enjoy my company though? I'm not used to it and it feels strange. Maybe because it doesn't feel earned?

This is purely the self-esteem issue hurting you again. It's sort of an Imposter Syndrome type situation. Take your friends at their word. Accept that they want to be friends with you without needing some utilitarian reason for it. Don't pre-emptively push people away. People will tell you if they don't want to be around you (whether directly or indirectly). You don't need to do it yourself first.

[WarKitty]

Don't suppose there's any nice 24 hour cafe's or anything like that near you? When I was in London BarPolo was great for that because despite the name it was pretty much a food place, did ludicrously tasty food and at that time of night was always quiet so they didn't mind you lurking for a while.

Otherwise, anywhere safe to walk and enjoy the night ambience? (Though I'd only recommend it if you sure you'd feel safe with the person your on a date with) When I was at university a lass and I sued to both go for 2am strolls in the fields, we realised we might as well stroll together, that turned into late night picnics, us realising we liked each other and becoming a couple. We'd still do the walks later on in the relationship.

Karaoke bars are often open late and drinking isn't strictly necessary?

Are there any good and big fresh produce markets- if you hold on long enough you'll get to the point where they're opening up early in the morning and you can browse whilst the restaurant crowd are buying stuff?

Edited: Forgot to say, yay for the date!

Eh, mostly your standard ihop and such.