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  1. - Top - End - #991
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you

    Quote Originally Posted by 2D8HP View Post
    Eh, some say Siberian gulag, others happy funtime camp!
    You've just got to let go of all those pipe dreams.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

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  2. - Top - End - #992
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    Default Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    You've just got to let go of all those pipe dreams.

    Crom knows I try, especially after I realized they weren't earning me overtime pay!

  3. - Top - End - #993
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    Default Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you

    Quote Originally Posted by 2D8HP View Post
    Crom knows I try, especially after I realized they weren't earning me overtime pay!
    Just to think, all that work down the drain.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

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  4. - Top - End - #994
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    Default Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you

    Quote Originally Posted by Knaight View Post
    I'd add holding those accused of crimes until they make bail as well, especially when the crimes are minor (and bail is thus cheap or even free unless broken) or the accused are wealthy enough to afford expensive bail. Far from everyone accused of a crime is held in jail until completion of their trial.
    Guess I should have added that caveat, too :)

    Quote Originally Posted by 2D8HP View Post
    You did a caveat but I'm going to chime in anyway ; for my job I mostly repair plumbing fixtures at the San Francisco Hall of Justice, and most of that work is at the Jail on the 7th floor, and I've been seeing some of the same inmates for years, which may be do to 2011's "realignment" when the State moved some of the prison inmates to the County Jails, and while in California usually Jails are County, and Prisons are State and Federal, but there still signs that say "City Prison" from when the now closed 6th floor Jail used to be the Police Departments responsibility (the 7th floor one was always the Sheriff's Department).
    Yeah, we do contract out some beds from the county jails as needed, which might be what's happening in the Hall of Justice </reverb>
    Last edited by Xianthe; 2018-07-31 at 02:46 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #995
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    Default Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you

    Okay, question for you weisenheimers: Are there any heroic plumbers besides Mario and Luigi?
    Quote Originally Posted by Wardog View Post
    Rockphed said it well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Starfall
    When your pants are full of crickets, you don't need mnemonics.
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  6. - Top - End - #996
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    Default Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockphed View Post
    Okay, question for you weisenheimers: Are there any heroic plumbers besides Mario and Luigi?
    Considering that Taco Bell exists, I consider all plumbers heroic.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

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  7. - Top - End - #997
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    Default Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockphed View Post
    Okay, question for you weisenheimers: Are there any heroic plumbers besides Mario and Luigi?

    Laraelra Harsard

    of the Waterdeep

    Cellarers' & Plumbers' Guild


    And maybe a Texan plumber

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Considering that Taco Bell exists, I consider all plumbers heroic.

    Thanks Peelee.

  8. - Top - End - #998
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    Default Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Well, Vinyadan seems to suggest that is the case. Unless they meant that "draught" has an 'f' sound in the middle of it. I'm honestly confused as to how those two words could possibly be pronounced the same way, in any case.

    GW
    gh pronounced like "f" like in enough, yes, or like laugh, as others have pointed out. I have never heard the words pronounced in real life; I normally said "from the tap" until recently.

    I have only recently discovered that draught can be used to say draft, like an air current. "You feel a sudden draft", probably was in Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup, in the labyrinth level.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  9. - Top - End - #999
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    Default Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you

    My father will give a fantastic speech to anyone who uses the words "hot water heater" together, explaining that if the water were already hot there would be no reason to heat it and whatnot. My particular bane is the well/good and the saw/seen mistakes. Oh yeah, also the not word "conversate."
    We came to wreck everything, and ruin your life.....God sent us.

  10. - Top - End - #1000
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    Default Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrell1978 View Post
    My father will give a fantastic speech to anyone who uses the words "hot water heater" together, explaining that if the water were already hot there would be no reason to heat it and whatnot.
    Well that depends on how hot someone wants it, though, wouldn't it?
    Last edited by Peelee; 2018-08-21 at 07:51 PM.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

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  11. - Top - End - #1001
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    Default Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrell1978 View Post
    My father will give a fantastic speech to anyone who uses the words "hot water heater" together, explaining that if the water were already hot there would be no reason to heat it and whatnot. My particular bane is the well/good and the saw/seen mistakes. Oh yeah, also the not word "conversate."
    You would heat hot water in order to stop it from cooling down.

  12. - Top - End - #1002
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    Default Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you

    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleBison View Post
    You would heat hot water in order to stop it from cooling down.
    But wouldn't you be just keeping it hot, then? As opposed to heating it, meaning "making a cold thing hot".
    Si non confectus, non reficiat.

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  13. - Top - End - #1003
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    Default Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you

    Quote Originally Posted by GolemsVoice View Post
    But wouldn't you be just keeping it hot, then? As opposed to heating it, meaning "making a cold thing hot".
    Why "as opposed to?" Adding heat (or, as some whackadoodles may call it, "heating") can certainly be used to keep a hot thing hot.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

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  14. - Top - End - #1004
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    Default Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you

    See, now this is why it's a fantastic speech. Because hot is not a defined temperature, one could propose that any temperature under the desired one was not "hot" and therefore when the water heater kicked back on it was essentially still heating water that did not fit that individuals definition of hot. However, one can truly get on his nerves by switching the term to "hot water tank" which (while not the actual name of the appliance) is a correct descriptive term as it is a tank that holds hot water. Then he almost gets to give his speech, but alas, cannot.
    We came to wreck everything, and ruin your life.....God sent us.

  15. - Top - End - #1005
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    Default Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrell1978 View Post
    See, now this is why it's a fantastic speech. Because hot is not a defined temperature, one could propose that any temperature under the desired one was not "hot" and therefore when the water heater kicked back on it was essentially still heating water that did not fit that individuals definition of hot. However, one can truly get on his nerves by switching the term to "hot water tank" which (while not the actual name of the appliance) is a correct descriptive term as it is a tank that holds hot water. Then he almost gets to give his speech, but alas, cannot.
    I want your dad to know I will always do that in my heart.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

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  16. - Top - End - #1006
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    Default Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrell1978 View Post
    My father will give a fantastic speech to anyone who uses the words "hot water heater" together, explaining that if the water were already hot there would be no reason to heat it and whatnot.
    And if language were created by logic instead of experience, he would be right. And nobody would say "brief moment", "added bonus", "free gift", "plan ahead", "drop down", or "usual custom".

    Repetitive redundancies actually occur in real life.

  17. - Top - End - #1007
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    Default Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    And if language were created by logic instead of experience, he would be right. And nobody would say "brief moment", "added bonus", "free gift", "plan ahead", "drop down", or "usual custom".

    Repetitive redundancies actually occur in real life.
    He is also actually correct. Do a quick google search and you'll find that all the appliance stores are selling water heaters. It's just his colorful way of pointing that out.
    We came to wreck everything, and ruin your life.....God sent us.

  18. - Top - End - #1008
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    Default Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrell1978 View Post
    See, now this is why it's a fantastic speech. Because hot is not a defined temperature, one could propose that any temperature under the desired one was not "hot" and therefore when the water heater kicked back on it was essentially still heating water that did not fit that individuals definition of hot. However, one can truly get on his nerves by switching the term to "hot water tank" which (while not the actual name of the appliance) is a correct descriptive term as it is a tank that holds hot water. Then he almost gets to give his speech, but alas, cannot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrell1978 View Post
    He is also actually correct. Do a quick google search and you'll find that all the appliance stores are selling water heaters. It's just his colorful way of pointing that out.
    Pshaw. That is all I have to say to you and your father. Pshaw.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wardog View Post
    Rockphed said it well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Starfall
    When your pants are full of crickets, you don't need mnemonics.
    Dragontar by Serpentine.

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  19. - Top - End - #1009
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    Default Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrell1978 View Post
    He is also actually correct. Do a quick google search and you'll find that all the appliance stores are selling water heaters. It's just his colorful way of pointing that out.
    The google search for "hot water heater" had 28,000,000 hits. Both terms exist in English. Both terms have existed in English for decades. Both terms will continue to exist in English.

  20. - Top - End - #1010
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    Default Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    The google search for "hot water heater" had 28,000,000 hits. Both terms exist in English. Both terms have existed in English for decades. Both terms will continue to exist in English.
    As someone who's had to suffer through writing about 50k words on water heaters, can confirm the term is prevalent enough that SEO guidelines will require its use.

  21. - Top - End - #1011
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    Default Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    As someone who's had to suffer through writing about 50k words on water heaters, can confirm the term is prevalent enough that SEO guidelines will require its use.
    You must really like hot water tanks.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

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  22. - Top - End - #1012
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    Default Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    The google search for "hot water heater" had 28,000,000 hits. Both terms exist in English. Both terms have existed in English for decades. Both terms will continue to exist in English.
    Of course both terms exist, else we would not be discussing this as no one would have ever heard of it. It is certainly prevalent, but that's not what I stated. If you go to a store (Lowe's,Home Depot, or whatever) and look at the tag or the box they will use the term water heater. That being said, the salesperson directing you there will certainly understand if you use "hot water heater." But, as the op wanted it is an "unimportant language misuse that bugs" my father. If the argument is that "it exists and is prevalent therefore it is not incorrect" then by the same logic nothing posted has been incorrect usage because all of them exist and are prevalent.
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  23. - Top - End - #1013
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    Default Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you

    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  24. - Top - End - #1014
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    Default Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrell1978 View Post
    Of course both terms exist, else we would not be discussing this as no one would have ever heard of it. It is certainly prevalent, but that's not what I stated. If you go to a store (Lowe's,Home Depot, or whatever) and look at the tag or the box they will use the term water heater. That being said, the salesperson directing you there will certainly understand if you use "hot water heater." But, as the op wanted it is an "unimportant language misuse that bugs" my father. If the argument is that "it exists and is prevalent therefore it is not incorrect" then by the same logic nothing posted has been incorrect usage because all of them exist and are prevalent.
    On that note, are you aware of linguistic prescriptivism vs descriptivism? The short, probably badly put version is prescriptivism adheres to a very definitive sense of correct and incorrect (which is effectively arbitrarily frozen in time and also contains rules that are not universally agreed on or do not logically follow, such as no splitting infinitives or ending sentences in prepositions), while descriptivism better embraces a living language and holds the idea that effective communication is paramount (I am obviously biased towards one here, I should note). So hot water heater is not incorrect at all from a descriptivist view.

    Of course, lunaticfringe and I already joked about this in the beginning of this thread, and it's not a hill in going to die on to begin with (especially not in this thread; I don't want to rain on anyone's parade), but I thought you and/or your dad might be interested in it.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2018-08-22 at 09:42 PM.
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  25. - Top - End - #1015
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    Default Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    You must really like hot water tanks.
    I like getting paid, anyway.

  26. - Top - End - #1016
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    Default Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    On that note, are you aware of linguistic prescriptivism vs descriptivism? The short, probably badly put version is prescriptivism adheres to a very definitive sense of correct and incorrect (which is effectively arbitrarily frozen in time and also contains rules that are not universally agreed on or do not logically follow, such as no splitting infinitives or ending sentences in prepositions), while descriptivism better embraces a living language and holds the idea that effective communication is paramount (I am obviously biased towards one here, I should note).
    I am aware and I've always found the concept interesting. Especially since it's one of a very few fields of study in which it is even entertained that the incorrect can become the correct, not because of any new evidence proving the original mistaken, but simply through common usage. I am definitely more in the camp of prescriptivism although I do see some use for the other side. I do also see some danger in the changing of language (especially definitions); however, I don't believe that this is the platform for that particular discussion. I am not trying to rain on anyone's parade either, and my father will never know about this discussion because it would take me an hour to explain to him what a forum is and why I am on it and maybe what a rpg is. Lol. It's been a fun little conversation though.
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  27. - Top - End - #1017
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    Default Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you

    .














    This post brought to you using only words that have inherent meaning that never changed from their original state (of meaningless sound)
    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    We should try to make that a thing; I think it might help civility. Hey, GitP, let's try to make this a thing: when you're arguing optimization strategies, RAW-logic, and similar such things that you'd never actually use in a game, tag your post [THEORETICAL] and/or use green text

  28. - Top - End - #1018
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    Default Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrell1978 View Post
    If you go to a store (Lowe's,Home Depot, or whatever) and look at the tag or the box they will use the term water heater.
    In the UK we bypass all this linguistic nonsense by calling them "boilers". Of course, that's probably just as bad because they don't actually *boil* the water (or at least, if they do you have something seriously bad happening or about to happen).

  29. - Top - End - #1019
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    Default Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you

    Boilers aren't actually the same thing as water heaters. Boilers can produce hot water but their primary purpose is for heating the building. And they will actually boil water until it turns to steam. It just cools to usable temperatures after making its way through a building.

  30. - Top - End - #1020
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    Default Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    Boilers aren't actually the same thing as water heaters. Boilers can produce hot water but their primary purpose is for heating the building. And they will actually boil water until it turns to steam. It just cools to usable temperatures after making its way through a building.
    That's at least correct for U.S. terminology (though I'd add that boilers aren't just for heating buildings, they're also really useful in chemical plants and the like to do temperature control for particular reactors, separators and the like), with a few other definitions of boilers floating around as well, e.g. steam engine boilers. For U.K. though that might be entirely different.

    Where exactly this leaves U.S. boilers in U.K. terminology is an open question.
    I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.

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