Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you

[Vinyadan]

Probably worth saying that Greek H (eta) originally was used to mark an aspiration. The Ionian dialect lost these aspirations (psilosis) and recycled the letter as a long a, a sound which later fell together with long e. Athens began using the Ionian alphabet around 403 BC, and it later became the standard for all Greek dialects.

[Knaight]

You know, if you used to spell it as two Us, it actually is starting to make sense that you call it "double U" instead of "double V".

It actually is called a double V in some other languages that use the latin script. Spanish for instance has "doble ve", though to some extent that's shifted recently in latin american spanish, to "uve doble". I assume the cognates can be figured out; both translate to "double V" but the latin american form uses the more typical noun then verb sentence structure.

[Vinyadan]

It actually is called a double V in some other languages that use the latin script. Spanish for instance has "doble ve", though to some extent that's shifted recently in latin american spanish, to "uve doble". I assume the cognates can be figured out; both translate to "double V" but the latin american form uses the more typical noun then verb sentence structure.

I guess you mean "noun, then adjective"?

French and Italian also have double vé and doppia vu, respectively.

EDIT: Doesn't Spanish have a number of rules about how to pronounce V and B at beginning of words and phrases? I think it might have something to do with why putting "doble" after "ve" made a vowel sprout in front of the word and turned "ve" into "uve". Or is it just a graphic variant?

[Draconi Redfir]

they way This guy pronounces "Compass" as "comp...is"

[Knaight]

I guess you mean "noun, then adjective"?

I very much do.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

EDIT: Doesn't Spanish have a number of rules about how to pronounce V and B at beginning of words and phrases? I think it might have something to do with why putting "doble" after "ve" made a vowel sprout in front of the word and turned "ve" into "uve". Or is it just a graphic variant?

In Castilian Spanish, the name of the letter 'v' is "uve". More crucially, 'v' and 'b' are supposed to be pronounced identically (/b/), so the name change to "uve" might have been to more reliably telling them apart. I believe that in the various South American Spanish speaking countries, the call them "long/tall b" and "short v" to tell them apart instead.

ETA: also, according to the Spanish dictionary, both "uve doble" and "doble uve" are valid.

Grey Wolf

[lio45]

It also says the original French was a propos, with an s.

Grey Wolf

Still is. That 's' is silent, but not optional when spelling. Plus, all the family of derived words use it (verbe "proposer" (to suggest), "une proposition" (a suggestion/proposal), etc.)

[Lissou]

It actually is called a double V in some other languages that use the latin script.

Right, which is why I said "instead of double V". Although I guess W looks enough like two Vs that you probably thought I was just making the observation based on that.

[Knaight]

Right, which is why I said "instead of double V". Although I guess W looks enough like two Vs that you probably thought I was just making the observation based on that.

That was my reading, yeah. The shape of it suggests it should be that way, and I was pointing out that other languages do that.

[Heliomance]

Yes.What kind of insane moon-logic are you using where the set [c,a,u,g,h,t] contains the subset [r]?

One with low rhoticity

The "ough" part has so many pronunciations in UK English--borough (bur-uh), cough (coff), rough (ruff), plough (plow), through (throo), slough (sl-ow, as in the "ow" sound not the one used in the actual word "slow"), though (th-o), hiccough (hiccup--to be fair, it's usually spelt the latter way these days), thought (thort)...no wonder people who don't speak English natively get confused!

Point of order: Slough (the place) is pronounced sl-ow, as you suggest. Slough (the verb, to slough off skin) I believe is more correctly pronounced "sluff".

Please. Have you never heard a single accent from England or even New England?

Pahk yah cah at Hahvahd Yahd. Have you never heard that saying?

OH! That's why I've read fanfic that uses that spelling in speech for people from Boston. I always got really confused, because to me it doesn't indicate a pronunciation much different from normal - what I was missing is that most American accents are highly rhotic, so eliding the Rs is weird for you guys! That makes so much more sense now!

[Purple Eagle]

I know a little Japanese, and I insist on pronouncing the words as they ought to be pronounced.

Now, I love Mortal Kombat, but they mispronounce Raiden and it bugs the heck out of me.

As for English, I'm good at it to the point I won prizes for it in high school, I love learning new words, but it bugs me when people choose to speak entirely in big words. The point of language is communication, not to display how many big words you know...

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I know a little Japanese, and I insist on pronouncing the words as they ought to be pronounced.

Unless you are speaking Japanese at the time, how they ought to be pronounced is the way it would be pronounced in English, because that's the language you are speaking. Loaned as they may be, the point is to be understood, not, to borrow your phrasing, "show off" that you can speak a different language. Indeed, I often have to apologize for mispronouncing English words because I tend to use other languages' pronunciation variants, and it makes it hard to understand what I mean.

As for English, I'm good at it to the point I won prizes for it in high school, I love learning new words, but it bugs me when people choose to speak entirely in big words. The point of language is communication, not to display how many big words you know...

Some of us learnt Latin languages before we progressed to English, and if we use "big words" it's because they're the ones we learnt in the previous language, and they feel more natural to us.

Now, I didn't win any prizes, but I did get a certificate of proficiency from a British University, if you feel that we need to establish our credentials. And yes, to get that certificate, I had to demonstrate proficiency both at formal and colloquial writing (usually, tested in the form of a double essay that required us to discuss a given topic in two letters, one a formal one like, say, "to a politician" and a second "to a friend"). The second one was by far the hardest for me and my cohorts, precisely because formal English is so much easier to employ when one is a foreigner. The rules are more consistent, if nothing else.

Grey Wolf

[Peelee]

Unless you are speaking Japanese at the time, how they ought to be pronounced is the way it would be pronounced in English, because that's the language you are speaking.

Oh, so you're imposing anglicized pronunciation on these foreign words like some sort of linguistic conquistador?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Oh, so you're imposing anglicized pronunciation on these foreign words like some sort of linguistic conquistador?

I'm ok with that.

Speaking of, the other day I came across a new word I had not seen in Spanish before, and couldn't quite figure out from the context (a list of items in someone's bedroom). It was "cederrón", which I figured might be some kind of bed cover, in a similar fashion to "edredón" (eiderdown).

Nope, it was the Spanish localization of CD-ROM, pronounced Spanish-way, and has now made it into their dictionaries. I love loan word language evolution.

Grey Wolf

[danzibr]

On the topic of pronouncing words as they are in their source language...

What about place names? Like Paris having the s on the end, or Toukyou being to-ki-yo?

I’m not a big fan of how people pronounce Kadena Air Base.

[Peelee]

On the topic of pronouncing words as they are in their source language...

What about place names? Like Paris having the s on the end, or Toukyou being to-ki-yo?

Places are always pronounced however the language you're speaking does it. Korea. Estados Unidos. Allemagne. Inghilterra.

[veti]

Places are always pronounced however the language you're speaking does it. Korea. Estados Unidos. Allemagne. Inghilterra.

Right. Anything else is, at best, extremely confusing. At worst, it's elitist showing-off. And a recipe for awkward silences, when you realise that you don't have the faintest idea how a Thai pronounces "Phuket".

[Knaight]

Right. Anything else is, at best, extremely confusing. At worst, it's elitist showing-off. And a recipe for awkward silences, when you realise that you don't have the faintest idea how a Thai pronounces "Phuket".

On the other hand if you've actually been to Phuket you probably are going to pronounce it correctly (close to Poo Ket) instead of trying an anglicized form. Especially given the obvious anglicized form here.

[Aedilred]

Right. Anything else is, at best, extremely confusing. At worst, it's elitist showing-off. And a recipe for awkward silences, when you realise that you don't have the faintest idea how a Thai pronounces "Phuket".

Especially when you get it wrong. One I am particularly alive to - being me - is Barcelona. There is a tendency, at least among people I've known, to try to show off by pronouncing it "Barthelona", but the Castilian lisp* is, of course, Castilian, and not Catalan. The native pronunciation of "Barcelona", in Barcelona and its surrounding region, is pretty much identical to the English pronunciation.

Valencia suffers from the same, to a slightly lesser extent.

*Not its real name

[danzibr]

Try to pronounce Phuket correctly? Phuket :P

[lesser_minion]

So, one that reappeared on my radar recently:

'Ouster'. If you're using it to mean "someone who ousts someone else", then sure, that makes sense. But why use it to refer to the act of ousting someone? When last I checked, 'ousting' served the role perfectly well, and it's what one would expect (or at least hope for) if they were familiar with almost any other verb in English.

It just seems to be used as an irregular verb for essentially no apparent reason -- and to make it even worse, it's used in a way that looks regular, even though it isn't.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

So, one that reappeared on my radar recently:

'Ouster'. If you're using it to mean "someone who ousts someone else", then sure, that makes sense. But why use it to refer to the act of ousting someone? When last I checked, 'ousting' served the role perfectly well, and it's what one would expect (or at least hope for) if they were familiar with almost any other verb in English.

It just seems to be used as an irregular verb for essentially no apparent reason -- and to make it even worse, it's used in a way that looks regular, even though it isn't.

Err... can you give an example? I'm not sure I follow what you mean.

Grey Wolf

[lesser_minion]

Err... can you give an example? I'm not sure I follow what you mean.

Grey Wolf

Most of the places where I've seen it in the wild are at least somewhat political, so I wouldn't link them here. But in general, it would be something like: "In response to Fred's ouster, George said ...", as opposed to "In response to Fred's ousting, ..." or "In response to Fred being ousted...".

My complaint is that it's being used irregularly for seemingly little reason (I suppose this does help to distinguish the word visually from 'outing' and 'outed', maybe).

Wiktionary has it listed as a thing, but it looks like it's mainly US.

[Xuc Xac]

So, one that reappeared on my radar recently:

'Ouster'. If you're using it to mean "someone who ousts someone else", then sure, that makes sense. But why use it to refer to the act of ousting someone?

Because that's what it means and has meant for centuries. "Oust" is a verb that means "expel"; "ouster" is a noun meaning "expulsion" and not "someone who ousts". Just like a "roster" is a list and not someone who rosts. It's a foreign word that ends in "er".

[lesser_minion]

Because that's what it means and has meant for centuries. "Oust" is a verb that means "expel"; "ouster" is a noun meaning "expulsion" and not "someone who ousts". Just like a "roster" is a list and not someone who rosts. It's a foreign word that ends in "er".

If you're suggesting that the two words have nothing to do with each other, that seems unlikely (and if Wiktionary is correct, then they both come from the same old French verb).

In any event, 'oust' exists, 'ousting' exists. 'Ouster', when used to mean essentially the same thing as 'ousting', is vestigial at best, and confusing at worst. There are many alternatives you can use. Continuing to use it just perpetuates a misfeature of the language for no good reason.

[Rockphed]

If you're suggesting that the two words have nothing to do with each other, that seems unlikely (and if Wiktionary is correct, then they both come from the same old French verb).

In any event, 'oust' exists, 'ousting' exists. 'Ouster', when used to mean essentially the same thing as 'ousting', is vestigial at best, and confusing at worst. There are many alternatives you can use. Continuing to use it just perpetuates a misfeature of the language for no good reason.

News organizations probably use "ouster" instead of "ousting" because it is a character shorter. It also seems to come mostly from british news in my experience, with american agencies using other verbiage for the act of removing a leader from power.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

News organizations probably use "ouster" instead of "ousting" because it is a character shorter. It also seems to come mostly from british news in my experience, with american agencies using other verbiage for the act of removing a leader from power.

This I can perfectly believe, given Terry Pratchett's first hand knowledge of the issue (his first job was as a journalist, of which, and I paraphrase "On the first day of my journalistic career I saw my first corpse - work experience meaning something those days"):

PROBE
INTO
SHOCK
GUILD
RUMPUS
William just wasn't used to the idea of evaluating words purely in terms of their length, whereas she'd picked up the habit in two days. He'd already had to stop her calling Lord Vetinari CITY BOSS. It was technically correct that if you spent some time with a thesaurus you could arrive at that description, and it did fit in a single column, but the sight of the words made William feel extremely exposed.

Grey Wolf

[lesser_minion]

News organizations probably use "ouster" instead of "ousting" because it is a character shorter. It also seems to come mostly from british news in my experience, with american agencies using other verbiage for the act of removing a leader from power.

Weirdly, I don't think I have any recollection of British news sources using it, tbh. But yes, there are some very minor benefits like that if you're a headline writer or similar.

[veti]

News organizations probably use "ouster" instead of "ousting" because it is a character shorter. It also seems to come mostly from british news in my experience, with american agencies using other verbiage for the act of removing a leader from power.

My perception is the opposite, British publications are much less likely to use it. However, it does seem to be a very old form, dating back to pre-Colonial times. I think it's one of those usages that the Americans kept while the British dropped it.

It's always bugged me too, on the grounds of regularity. But then - a "prayer" isn't generally a person who prays, so the parallels are there.

[Peelee]

My perception is the opposite, British publications are much less likely to use it. However, it does seem to be a very old form, dating back to pre-Colonial times. I think it's one of those usages that the Americans kept while the British dropped it.

Really? I hardly ever encounter it, to the point that wheb I first read the OP my first thought was that it must be a British problem.