D&D 3.5 Wizard VS Classic Dr. Strange

[Psyren]

No, his "pre-existing abilities" are abilities he's already been shown to have.

Like being able to rewrite reality? Steal the abilities of other spellcasters? Shown abilities like that?

How?

"Artifacts and deities are unaffected by mortal magic such as this."

[Florian]

You don´t have to go as heavy-handed as the artifacts rules, it´s enough to go with Mindscapes that are able to simply shut down stuff like AMF as part of their individual planar traits.

[ColorBlindNinja]

"Artifacts and deities are unaffected by mortal magic such as this."

The term "Artifact" in this context purely a D&D term. In other settings, the tools of the gods may or may not be immune to such things. That also doesn't cover Dweomer of Transference, since the line of text you quoted only refers to AMF.

Has Dr. Strange's gear been shut down of AMFs in his own setting?

[Scots Dragon]

Rhetorical Question: Why is it that, on this forum in particular, the first thing people want to do when something gets popular is figure out how to kill it or stat it (typically so that it can be killed or used to kill)?

A really fun fact is that Doctor Strange has stats in the old TSR Marvel Super Heroes Role-Playing Game, the one that used the FASERIP system. He can basically reproduce any power you can think of more or less at will by virtue of the fact that he has them as spells.

[Mato]

Artifacts and deities are unaffected by mortal magic such as this.

Dr. Strange can also channel the virtually unlimited energy of nigh-omnipotent mystical and non-mystical beings--known as Principalities--to empower his spells. This can take the form of stating what he wants to occur. This ability to be a conduit to multi-versal power sources has given rise to the phrase "Dr. Strange is as powerful as the god he invokes". He is quite capable of utilizing power that is considered "black magic", though he tends to do so only under extreme exigency. Though he rarely has, he can absorb the power of even a cosmic or semi-deity entity. Doctor Strange has a pact with Eternity possibly allowing him to live as long as the Ancient One and others before him have.

Also Dr Strange has his own version of ice assassin, except he can cast more than two spells every six seconds. He can also, through a force of will and not a spell, steal the powers of any other entity. He uses this ability against Captain Universe as well as against Arioch and Shuma-Gorath in Strange Tales Vol 2 and Strange also uses this to drain the Wrecking Crew of the Asgardian magic they had been infused by Karnilla.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Snip

That doesn't tell me much as "nigh-omnipotent" is rather vague.

Can you give me some more notable abilities that Strange has displayed?

[Tainted_Scholar]

Like being able to rewrite reality? Steal the abilities of other spellcasters? Shown abilities like that?

Yes, but first I'd like a bit more information as to how said powers work. If it's a spell then it would be stopped by DoT.

Also Dr Strange has his own version of ice assassin, except he can cast more than two spells every six seconds.

The wizard can just attack from his fast flowing demi-plane where every Planck second in the normal planes is equal to a billion years in the demi plane.

[Florian]

Has Dr. Strange's gear been shut down of AMFs in his own setting?

No and why should that happen? He could always channel any god and recreate the setting rules all by himself.

[SimonMoon6]

He regularly fights entities that encompass entire realities, and are essentially gods. Plus, his most common enemy is Mephisto, who is essentially the devil in the Marvel universe.

He was also defeated by Plantman. Friggin' Plantman of all people. And it wasn't a long fight. Plant Man one-shotted Dr. Strange. (I think it was in Defenders #37.) Plantman's just a guy with plant-based weaponry. And not, like, cool weaponry or anything.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img28/2302/defend6.jpg
https://cryptobotanicalfindings.file..._003.jpg?w=584

[ColorBlindNinja]

No and why should that happen? He could always channel any god and recreate the setting rules all by himself.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. I meant has Dr. Strange ever encountered an AMF in his own comics.

[Mato]

The wizard can just attack from his fast flowing demi-plane where every Planck second in the normal planes is equal to a billion years in the demi plane.

Genesis doesn't let the wizard create his own fast time plane and Dr Strange can freely travel through time, it doesn't even matter if the wizard gets ten quadrillion actions per minute on Earth because Dr Strange can spend an eternity in the moment before them even after they occur.

[Tainted_Scholar]

He was also defeated by Plantman. Friggin' Plantman of all people. And it wasn't a long fight. Plant Man one-shotted Dr. Strange. (I think it was in Defenders #37.) Plantman's just a guy with plant-based weaponry. And not, like, cool weaponry or anything.

So a druid could definitely win then.

[Florian]

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. I meant has Dr. Strange ever encountered an AMF in his own comics.

Yes, and simply ignored it.

Don´t get to hung up on D&D Wizards, that´s not a high-powered game. We talk Dr. Strange, we talk Mage or Ars Magicka.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Genesis doesn't let the wizard create his own fast time plane and Dr Strange can freely travel through time, it doesn't even matter if the wizard gets ten quadrillion actions per minute on Earth because Dr Strange can spend an eternity in the moment before them even after they occur.

Genesis does indeed let the wizard create his own fast time plane.

Can you give me some sort of citation for Strange's time mastery? Can he affect some one while "spending an eternity in the moment"?

Because assassinating someone from a fasting flowing demi plane is easy for a wizard to accomplish. They can even use planar bubble to bring their planar trait with them.

Yes, and simply ignored it.

Don´t get to hung up on D&D Wizards, that´s not a high-powered game. We talk Dr. Strange, we talk Mage or Ars Magicka.

I really don't understand what you're saying. I also think you underestimate just how powerful a D&D wizard is.

[Tainted_Scholar]

Yes, and simply ignored it.

Okay then.

[Malroth]

Or a Megaman Robot

Random text to extend the legnth of this post

[Tainted_Scholar]

it doesn't even matter if the wizard gets ten quadrillion actions per minute on Earth because Dr Strange can spend an eternity in the moment before them even after they occur.

Actually, I believe you could make a demi-plane that's infinitely faster than the normal planes. Which would give the Wizard infinite actions.

[Florian]

Actually, I believe you could make a demi-plane that's infinitely faster than the normal planes. Which would give the Wizard infinite actions.

No. Because the Wizard lacks the ability to use both at the same time.

[Tainted_Scholar]

No. Because the Wizard lacks the ability to use both at the same time.

What do you mean?

[Mato]

Genesis does indeed let the wizard create his own fast time plane.

[citation needed] But here, I have it for you. "Unless otherwise noted in a description, every plane in the D&D cosmology has the normal time trait." ~DMG.

Can you give me some sort of citation for Strange's time mastery? Can he affect some one while "spending an eternity in the moment"?

His comics and the film that came out last year that made over six hundred million dollars and was kind of a pretty big deal. You should watch it some time, Kaecilius was even able to pull him self into a reverse time stream which if you think about it should be pretty impossible without some kind of temporal sense immune to any form of time manipulation and the ability to instantly jump any another spellcaster's spell effect. And that's pretty mild compared to Dr Strange's comics.

[Florian]

What do you mean?

The ability to create your own no-time demi-plane is worthless compared to the ability to pull someone in a demi-plane with rules of your own choosing (no save).

[noob]

Like I said there is still solutions involving getting the author to write how your wizard beat dr strange.
One simple solution is to just mind control it or replace the author by an ice assassin of him.
Alternatively get him in a basket-weaving contest without magic and win using your stupidly high rank in basket-weaving(in the dr strange comics I am quite sure that dr strange is a super cool doctor and a wizard but was he shown as having a lot of training in basket weaving?)?
It was never said that the vs had to be done by killing the other.

[Tainted_Scholar]

[citation needed] But here, I have it for you. "Unless otherwise noted in a description, every plane in the D&D cosmology has the normal time trait." ~DMG.

Genesis.

"The spellcaster determines the environment within the demiplane when he or she first casts genesis, reflecting most any desire the spellcaster can visualize."

Time is a planar trait.

And then in Psionic Genesis.

"You can’t manipulate the time trait on your demiplane; its time trait is as the Material Plane."

A line which is strangely absent from normal genesis. Meaning that normal Genesis can indeed manipulate the time flow of the demiplane.

[Psyren]

The term "Artifact" in this context purely a D&D term. In other settings, the tools of the gods may or may not be immune to such things. That also doesn't cover Dweomer of Transference, since the line of text you quoted only refers to AMF.

Has Dr. Strange's gear been shut down of AMFs in his own setting?

Hold on now, you can't have your cake and eat it. Either terms have D&D definitions or they don't. So if "artifact" doesn't have its D&D definition, neither does "spell", and so Dweomer won't do jack and perhaps even AMF won't.

Unless of course the parameters of this contest are "everything is defined in such a way as to make the wizard win."

[ColorBlindNinja]

[citation needed] But here, I have it for you. "Unless otherwise noted in a description, every plane in the D&D cosmology has the normal time trait." ~DMG.

Time is a planar trait. Genesis lets you choose whatever planar trait you want. This include fast time.

His comics and the film that came out last year that made over six hundred million dollars and was kind of a pretty big deal. You should watch it some time, Kaecilius was even able to pull him self into a reverse time stream which if you think about it should be pretty impossible without some kind of temporal sense immune to any form of time manipulation and the ability to instantly jump any another spellcaster's spell effect. And that's pretty mild compared to Dr Strange's comics.

D&D wizards are immune to time effects thanks to Selective Temporal Repair. Celerity + Foresight means that the wizard can act before any combatants he faces.

The ability to create your own no-time demi-plane is worthless compared to the ability to pull someone in a demi-plane with rules of your own choosing (no save).

You can attack your opponent from you demi plane or force the rules of your demi plane on the universe you inhabit.

Hold on now, you can't have your cake and eat it. Either terms have D&D definitions or they don't. So if "artifact" doesn't have its D&D definition, neither does "spell", and so Dweomer won't do jack and perhaps even AMF won't.

That's a rather bizarre argument. "Spell" is a pretty general term, while I cannot think of another work of fiction that has the same definition of "artifact" that D&D does.

Edit: This is akin to claiming that D&D gods are immune to disintegration, so all gods in other works of fiction must be too.

[Tainted_Scholar]

The ability to create your own no-time demi-plane is worthless compared to the ability to pull someone in a demi-plane with rules of your own choosing (no save).

How exactly is Strange suppose to drag the Wizard into his Demi-Plane when the Wizard is going to just to use Celerity then Plane Shift to head to her Demi-Plane as soon as the fight starts.

Hold on now, you can't have your cake and eat it. Either terms have D&D definitions or they don't. So if "artifact" doesn't have its D&D definition, neither does "spell", and so Dweomer won't do jack and perhaps even AMF won't.

It really doesn't matter if we use D&D definitions or not. The Wizard can just snipe Strange from her Demi-Plane.

[Florian]

That's a rather bizarre argument. "Spell" is a pretty general term, while I cannot think of another work of fiction that has the same definition of "artifact" that D&D does.

No, you can´t. As Psyren pointed out, you have to go with the standard rules or you play a different game.

Edit: And the answer is still a Psychic Duel. I want to, I do and I set the conditions.

[Psyren]

That's a rather bizarre argument. "Spell" is a pretty general term, while I cannot think of another work of fiction that has the same definition of "artifact" that D&D does.

D&D's definition of artifact is quite widespread actually. "Any magic item that is beyond mortals to make" sums it up. I assure you, there's plenty of fiction that could fit, including that of Strange himself.

[Tainted_Scholar]

What if the reason D&D artifacts are immune to AMf is a trait of the artifact and not the AMF?

[Florian]

D&D's definition of artifact is quite widespread actually. "Any magic item that is beyond mortals to make" sums it up. I assure you, there's plenty of fiction that could fit, including that of Strange himself.

Let´s not dance around the point. D&D uses "in" and "out" mechanics. Artifacts are a case of "out" mechanics that simply are not covered by the rules, because there is no interaction that has to be covered, simple as that.

What if the reason D&D artifacts are immune to AMf is a trait of the artifact and not the AMF?

It´s the other way around. Things like AMF only cover "minor" magic and ignore the rest, while things like Artifacts cover "major" magic that mortals never can reach.