Erfworld Thread X: A Series of Unfortunate Cliffhangers

[Whispri]

Third SKIP of the month it seems.

[tomaO2]

I'm starting to wonder if hiring this particular new inker/colourist was a good idea. We had the best run we ever had with Erfworld, then Rob hires this new person, and updates go to crap. I mean, SOMETHING is to blame for all these skipped updates. I'm not saying that it's the new colourist fault, but it DID start just as she got hired. They had a three month break, and during that time, they did no work on the comic, then went on their new schedule (bi-weekly, with "about" 2 skips a month), which only lasted a month before being broken.

This is pretty badly done. Rob knows this is the third monday skip in a row, he knows he promised to keep it down to 2 skips a month, LESS than two months ago, and he's already breaking his promise. Yea, you can argue that it wasn't set in stone that the total would be a maximum of two skips, but we all know that sort of excuse won't wash with most people. He knows there is a surprisingly large protest in his forums about this, so why didn't he do a better job handling it. I don't get it. Erfworld has lost a massive amount of money from all the skips during the last few months. There is no way the Erfworld team could be happy about it, so I just don't know why it's still happening.


In other news.
THE TOOLSHED: 1591 PEOPLE ARE PLEDGING $1,911.69 PER ON-TIME UPDATE
Another small decrease in revenue.

[guttering flame]

Just be happy when you get them. If you must check the site for updates, do it once a month and then you're sure to be satisfied.

[Aquillion]

Well, it's not like keeping the old colorist was an option anyway.

[-D-]

I'm starting to wonder if hiring this particular new inker/colourist was a good idea. We had the best run we ever had with Erfworld, then Rob hires this new person, and updates go to crap.

Uhh, that's not what happened. What happened was following - Lauri quits due to something, and Rob decides to opt for a less stressful schedule - apparently his new schedule. IIRC they managed to skip a few episodes even with Lauri on board. So it's not like the problem wasn't there from the start. If I had to hazard a guess, I think Signamancy and Rob's insistence on details is what makes people quit.

I mean, SOMETHING is to blame for all these skipped updates.

When things don't work for a long time and you change a thing, and it still doesn't works, the new thing probably isn't the thing that caused the problems.

But far worse than occasional skip, is the fact the quality is way down. I'm not a huge fan of non-comic Erfworld.

[JeenLeen]

I'll avoid commenting on the update, besides that I'm sad to not have a new comic waiting when I got online this morning.

But far worse than occasional skip, is the fact the quality is way down. I'm not a huge fan of non-comic Erfworld.

I agree that I prefer the all-comics method in general, but I like that they are doing text updates too because I've found that, lately, I care more about the metaphysics of the world (aka, gaming mechanics & lore) and the overarching plot than the individual characters. The text updates seem to move the plot along faster, and they definitely provide more of the metaphysics.
If the comic updated more often, I think I would like all-comics. But with the current updating policy, I'm glad it's a mix so that I get a good dose of metaphysics at least once a month.

I do admit comic format could advance the plot quickly, too, and the text updates don't always move the plot quickly.

[Anteros]

I don't think it's fair to just blame the new colourist. Rob has always had problems with maintaining a schedule. Eventually you have to look at the common thread in these situations.

They need to just come out and say "look, we can't maintain a schedule and we'll update when we can." That would be a million times more professional. Unfortunately, they'd have to re-do their patreon and potentially lose a lot of money in the progress, so they'll never do it.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

I don't think it's fair to just blame the new colourist. Rob has always had problems with maintaining a schedule. Eventually you have to look at the common thread in these situations.

They need to just come out and say "look, we can't maintain a schedule and we'll update when we can." That would be a million times more professional. Unfortunately, they'd have to re-do their patreon and potentially lose a lot of money in the progress, so they'll never do it.

It may be that Rob works better with deadlines rather than when I get to it, which could be the reason for this set up. I know that's certainly something that helps me. When we didn't have a schedule, it was pretty rough going as well in terms of pacing.

[Anteros]

It may be that Rob works better with deadlines rather than when I get to it, which could be the reason for this set up. I know that's certainly something that helps me. When we didn't have a schedule, it was pretty rough going as well in terms of pacing.

Well, I'd certainly hate to see how he does without them if that's true.

[-D-]

I've found that, lately, I care more about the metaphysics of the world (aka, gaming mechanics & lore) and the overarching plot than the individual characters.

To me that's just symptomatic of horrible writing. Your characters should be your most interesting pieces. I mean I like FMA world, but if it wasn't for the characters, it would be a ****ing boring world.

I blame Fate, as the main culprit, since it essentially insures that you can't generate any tensions, since important characters are immune to worst of it.

[tomaO2]

Just be happy when you get them. If you must check the site for updates, do it once a month and then you're sure to be satisfied.

I don't care how often it updates, any more than I care how often OOTS updates. What I care about is keeping your word. That is my biggest pet peeve with webcomics. That said, I'm still not really that mad about it, because I know the money lost hurts Rob more than anything.

It just baffles me. I had gotten this idea that the on-time mechanic had worked to focus Rob on updating, but it doesn't seem to be working anymore.

Well, it's not like keeping the old colorist was an option anyway.

I know, I'm just wondering if the new one is causing a lot of problems behind the scenes.

Uhh, that's not what happened. What happened was following - Lauri quits due to something, and Rob decides to opt for a less stressful schedule - apparently his new schedule. IIRC they managed to skip a few episodes even with Lauri on board. So it's not like the problem wasn't there from the start. If I had to hazard a guess, I think Signamancy and Rob's insistence on details is what makes people quit.

That's probably a fair criticism about Rob. He's gone through quite a large number of staff, and I'm sure part of the reason is him. That said, it's not like there haven't been problems that were unrelated to personality clashes. Xin didn't quit because of Rob, and she even came back. Those two seem to have a good working relationship, and she does the real work in regards to drawing. The colourist can't really screw things up as badly, all she has to do is paint between the lines.

[-D-]

The colourist can't really screw things up as badly, all she has to do is paint between the lines.

Yeah, but the drop in quality, since Lauri left, is real. Good colorist does paint within the lines, but great colorists add so much more.

I mean, compare Goblins with new colorist to Goblins without new colorist. It's so much more drab.

[The Glyphstone]

Yeah, but the drop in quality, since Lauri left, is real. Good colorist does paint within the lines, but great colorists add so much more.

I mean, compare Goblins with new colorist to Goblins without new colorist. It's so much more drab.

Thats because Cheyenne Wright is an excellent colorist.

[Jasdoif]

It may be that Rob works better with deadlines rather than when I get to it, which could be the reason for this set up.

Which could explain why the new death-impaired deadlines don't do the job as effectively.

[JavaScribe]

The latest. I'm almost surprised there was an update this close to Thanksgiving.

[Hitchkok]

Which could explain why the new death-impaired deadlines don't do the job as effectively.

they're piningforthefjordlines

[DigoDragon]

The latest. I'm almost surprised there was an update this close to Thanksgiving.

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It didn't feel like much. Some bits of history and thought, and an oddly creepy troll-faced scarecrow. Well now I can't see one of my fav characters from that story the same way.

Isaac seems to be quite aware he don't have long left to live.

[-D-]

Wow, we are very close to forth skip a month. This. This isn't good.

[Wayson]

Wow, we are very close to forth skip a month. This. This isn't good.

I'm sure one of Rob's apologists will be along shortly.

Frankly I don't know whether I'm still reading Erfworld out of fading interest, or out of some sort of sadomasochistic desire to see how Rob will screw up next.

[Jasdoif]

Wow, we are very close to forth skip a month.

Last second save.

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To be fair, Lilith's got to be really bored at this point....

[-D-]

I'm sure one of Rob's apologists will be along shortly.

Frankly I don't know whether I'm still reading Erfworld out of fading interest, or out of some sort of sadomasochistic desire to see how Rob will screw up next.

For me, it's both :P

I kinda want to see how it all ends, but I don't care about the journey there so...

[DigoDragon]

Frankly I don't know whether I'm still reading Erfworld out of fading interest, or out of some sort of sadomasochistic desire to see how Rob will screw up next.

It's certainly not the story we started with. I'm curious to see the fate of a few characters, and maybe if this book ends on a high note. At least a good battle in the MK or something.

Last second save.

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To be fair, Lilith's got to be really bored at this point....

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That must be why I identify with so so much lately.

[Anteros]

I'm sure one of Rob's apologists will be along shortly.

Frankly I don't know whether I'm still reading Erfworld out of fading interest, or out of some sort of sadomasochistic desire to see how Rob will screw up next.

I pretty much just read because I frequent this forum anyway, and I already post in this thread, so I end up clicking it to see if anyone has responded to me, and someone has linked the update anyway...or someone says something that I disagree with so I go look at the comic to see if they're right or not. Basically I enjoy talking about game mechanics and stuff with the people in this thread more than the comic itself.

Of course, when it's a just blocks of text about secondary characters I don't care about I have a hard time making myself read it. Thankfully I can usually get a pretty good idea what's going on from the one or two pictures.

[keybounce]

I am really having trouble following what is happening with the...yarn golem. I don't think I've really understood what's going on in think space.

And yeah, at this point, updates are not about Parson are kind of mehh

[virgileso]

I am really having trouble following what is happening with the...yarn golem. I don't think I've really understood what's going on in think space.

When the Great Minds That Think Alike were in the middle of their highest level link, State 7, Charlie blew up the temple. In order to survive, they bundled themselves into Isaac and ascended to State 8; the most powerful the Great Minds have ever been. Isaac+ pulled in the Dollamancer and the Dirtamancer to do some stuff, then released them with full juice. Then, Isaac+ pulled as much of Isaac as they could and shoved it into the yarn golem. Currently, Isaac's body is running amok with the rest of the "surviving" thinkamancers in State 8 inside them.

Isaac and the Great Minds are going to die. Isaac, in the golem body, is currently in thinkspace with Wanda. He's using leading questions about Wanda's past to figure out any secrets she might possibly have that would allow for Isaac to survive to see the next day. Isaac's understanding of magic contradicts the details of what Wanda is capable of, and theorizes potential abilities he feels are even more powerful than Decryption.

[tyckspoon]

I am really having trouble following what is happening with the...yarn golem. I don't think I've really understood what's going on in think space.

And yeah, at this point, updates are not about Parson are kind of mehh

The other Thinkamancers (I think? The fusion that they/the Dirtamancer and Dollamancer were in) shoved Isaac's intelligence into the yarn golem. Not sure what happened to the other Thinkamancers (or rather, the fragments of them that were contained in Isaac because he was hosting their fusion.) Normally, a created unit like that draws its 'upkeep' from its creator in some fashion. The golem apparently doesn't *have* a creator in game terms at this point, which means it's going to disband at next turn as an unsupported unit (This may have happened when they cut the Action Figure loose and reformed it into that yarn golem.) So Isaac is desperately trying to find a way for his golem to be assigned to something that can provide upkeep or become an independent living unit that can pay its own upkeep, because if he can't solve the problem this turn he's going to die.

The stuff about thoughtspace is just the golem not being able to properly host Isaac's mind/can't do the low-level casting Thinkamancers do when they Decide things; Isaac is having to think like a normal person without the aid of the flowcharts and presentation slides Thinkamancers usually use to organize themselves.

[JeenLeen]

I read Issac's description of the golem-upkeep issue as:

1) the golem is now a unit loyal to the barbarian body that used to Issac, and its upkeep is paid out of that body's purse
2) come a new turn, the barbarian body will disband due to <not exactly sure--but covered in earlier comics/updates>
3) since that barbarian disbands, its purse no longer exists
4) since no purse, the golem can't have upkeep paid and disbands

It's also possible that the barbarian body disbanding 'kills' the Issac-ness in the golem, due to their being linked, but that seems a side issue since the golem disbands regardless. But I think that was why Issac didn't want to join Goblin Knob--he knew he would still 'die' with his body, leaving just a fairly useless golem.

I do think this is an interesting reveal in mechanic technicalities, that if a person dies upon a new turn, their purse vanishes before it can be used to pay for the upkeep of any units loyal to it.

I extrapolate that a golem can exist without a unit/side to be loyal to, but it'd disband upon a new turn due to no way to pay upkeep.

[guttering flame]

I read Issac's description of the golem-upkeep issue as:

1) the golem is now a unit loyal to the barbarian body that used to Issac, and its upkeep is paid out of that body's purse
2) come a new turn, the barbarian body will disband due to <not exactly sure--but covered in earlier comics/updates>
3) since that barbarian disbands, its purse no longer exists
4) since no purse, the golem can't have upkeep paid and disbands

It's also possible that the barbarian body disbanding 'kills' the Issac-ness in the golem, due to their being linked, but that seems a side issue since the golem disbands regardless. But I think that was why Issac didn't want to join Goblin Knob--he knew he would still 'die' with his body, leaving just a fairly useless golem.

I do think this is an interesting reveal in mechanic technicalities, that if a person dies upon a new turn, their purse vanishes before it can be used to pay for the upkeep of any units loyal to it.

I extrapolate that a golem can exist without a unit/side to be loyal to, but it'd disband upon a new turn due to no way to pay upkeep.

That's not the issue. As Wanda just told him in the previous update, when Issac body disbands the doll will devolve into an ordinary moron doll. Issac soul and mind will be vacated from it.

[Zalabim]

I know questions about the Arkenhammer come up from time to time. Most recently I was reading some pondering about "why dragons?" So I found a couple hammers with any relation to dragons. The Hammer of Kharas (or Hammer of Honor) is one of the artifacts responsible for creating the titular Dragonlance. But Dragonlances kill dragons, so I kept digging.

Then I see this from the book Dragon Rises, Red Bird Flies: Psychology & Chinese Medicine, "About the Author: Leon I. Hammer, M.D. is a graduate of Cornell University, Cornell Medical College, and the William A. White Institute of Psychoanalysis and Psychiatry. During the early 1970s he studied Chinese medicine in England with Dr. Richard Van Buren, and then apprenticed for eight years in New York and Massachusetts with Dr. John H.F. Shen, a widely recognized master of Chinese pulse diagnosis. Dr. Hammer practiced Chinese medicine until 1990, when he began teaching pulse workshops in the United States and abroad. He is the author of Dragon Rises, Redbird Flies, a study of the relationship between Chinese medicine and Western psychology, and is president of the Dragon Rises School of Oriental Medicine in Gainesville, Florida."

A Hammer with links to dragon, psychology, and Chinese medicine? Holy goldmine, Batman. I still can't really explain the walnuts though.

[Jasdoif]

New update.

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So are the Great Minds towering over every city now, or just a bunch of them?