Erfworld Thread X: A Series of Unfortunate Cliffhangers

[Anteros]

More like the golem has its own personal huge purse, which means it pays it's own upkeep, but it can also heal itself, at the cost of the gems downgrading over time.

Should a caster have a bonus against units made by the same type of caster? Turn/rebuke undead for a croakamancer for example.

Sounds pretty expensive considering how ridiculously expensive gems are. You'd be looking at what? A few million a unit? Better be a darn good unit. Also, other sides would probably just capture them for profit.

[Doran]

Yes, might work better if you always lead it.

I wonder if a dollamancer can make animated suits of armour? So it's simultaneously an enhancement magic item and a golem? That way if you get incapped during a battle it can autopilot you back for healing? Or if you die it can keep fighting and send you back for uncroaking/decryption.

[Zalabim]

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I don't think Parson has contacted Isaac or learned anything about him (or the other things going on under the MK) since the time Isaac merely said, "Deiform." My interpretation is that Parson is expecting to contact Ivan via Roger and explain this gambit to him for the first time. I don't expect Parson to wind up going ahead with the gambit--I think it will wind up being hijacked by Isaac.

Well, now that the plan's been revealed, of course it won't go off like this. But I do recall that Isaac has read Parson's book somehow.

Spoiler: New page

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So I was wrong then - they aren't gems containing magic juice, but 500K gems.

I wonder if each major gem amount has a different size?

Like charlie has a few enormous 100 million gems in his account. I wonder who the moneymancer is Charlie uses to make them? Maybe some kind of secret signamancy contract to go along with it.

Spoiler: Charlie's Gems

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It's probably easier to just only have each moneymancer convert a certain amount to gems, possibly spaced at different times, so that none of them ever even know how much his treasury could really be.

It's also possible that all those gems are just part of his payments from a long time in business and he's never used a moneymancer for himself at all. Just to be extra sure.

[eschmenk]

Well, now that the plan's been revealed, of course it won't go off like this. But I do recall that Isaac has read Parson's book somehow.

Yes, it's just that Parson wouldn't know that Isaac had read it. The idea is something that Parson thought of recently in TV, so he wouldn't have had a chance to show it to Isaac. I assume Isaac used some advanced Lookamancy to read it. The notebook doesn't seem to be the lookamancy-proof one that Parson got from Janis.

Actually, as far as we know, the gambit involving the gems and the Iron Man tank could even be two separate plans and maybe Isaac only knows about the tank one.

[Doran]

It's also possible that all those gems are just part of his payments from a long time in business and he's never used a moneymancer for himself at all. Just to be extra sure

Good point - he could always have an archon squad carry hats, and have gem payments at a small discount to direct treasury transfer.

If he also gave out banking loans that would also provide a way to recycle money into gems.

[-D-]

Yes, it's just that Parson wouldn't know that Isaac had read it. The idea is something that Parson thought of recently in TV, so he wouldn't have had a chance to show it to Isaac. I assume Isaac used some advanced Lookamancy to read it. The notebook doesn't seem to be the lookamancy-proof one that Parson got from Janis.

Pretty sure it's the same thing. Flower Journal is 247 and flower journal is what they used.

I think DeIsaac, can just tap into strings after the eyes have processed them.

[eschmenk]

Pretty sure it's the same thing. Flower Journal is 247 and flower journal is what they used.

Oh, OK, it says "Flower Journal" in the name of the relevant updates. It artwork on page 247 didn't make it look like it was the same journal, but apparently it was. Still, I doubt that Parson knows that Isaac knows anything about Parson's plan yet. And yes, Isaac probably read Parson's memories when Parson tried to contact him.

[-D-]

Oh, OK, it says "Flower Journal" in the name of the relevant updates. It artwork on page 247 didn't make it look like it was the same journal, but apparently it was. Still, I doubt that Parson knows that Isaac knows anything about Parson's plan yet. And yes, Isaac probably read Parson's memories when Parson tried to contact him.

Yeah, Parson is in the dark regarding DeIsaac's involvement. I just noted, that his notes from Flower Journal are the same as here. I doubt that's a coincidence. That said, you are right and the original Signamancy (aka Flower) Journal looking different. To outsiders it looks like a sketch journal (no lines or margins), to Parson it looks like a notebook (there are lines and margins).

[DigoDragon]

New Page.

Spoiler: Thought

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Well I think the best summary of this page came from a comment at the page site itself-- "Yay, now we have two Jacks!"

I'll admit that I'm curious to see where this is going. Rigging a rigged portal?

[Zalabim]

Wild conspiracy theory time. Charlie has, basically, a VCR or I guess DVR for his 'Dish. It records the thinkamancy conversations he wants to monitor so he can view them later. He needs Ivan to get it working again. It seems like something that could be very useful in sorting out Big Think at the moment. Will Charlie try to tempt them with life? Is that the part of Charlie's operation they need to take over to save themselfs?

[-D-]

New comic.

Well, that's weird. First part if Parson and then after image it switches to Roger.
I think Parson suspects GM now even more, since if they had magical foolamancy they could have protected GK at any point during battle of Portal Park.

It's moments like this I pity i didn't vote for slow story title

[halfeye]

New comic.

Well, that's weird. First part if Parson and then after image it switches to Roger.
I think Parson suspects GM now even more, since if they had magical foolamancy they could have protected GK at any point during battle of Portal Park.

It's moments like this I pity i didn't vote for slow story title

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Yeah, it's an odd switch from Parson, if it's not Parson listening in to a call via Roger, but I think it's actually Bill's point of view, and the voice he's hearing is Roger.

These messed up communication channels are a great way to slow the story down aren't they.

[DigoDragon]

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Yeah, it's an odd switch from Parson, if it's not Parson listening in to a call via Roger, but I think it's actually Bill's point of view, and the voice he's hearing is Roger.

These messed up communication channels are a great way to slow the story down aren't they.

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And confuse the reader. I used to get dinged in writing class for switching pov mid-page.
I can see why here.

[-D-]

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These messed up communication channels are a great way to slow the story down aren't they.

If by communication channels you Ivan being busy, possibly, but he?/they? is in a fragile state. And it's ok for him to Refuse a call.
If by communication channels you mean actual writing - not really They are only good at confusion.

What slows down is essentially reiterating stuff we know, and not doing anything novel.

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And confuse the reader. I used to get dinged in writing class for switching pov mid-page.
I can see why here.

Erfworld, teaching you how to NOT write, since Book 3.

[guttering flame]

I'm guessing Roger didn't even try to contact Ivan and simply lied to Parson about it. He's not there to help them. Why waste juice on this call when he can lie and say he was refused.

[Jasdoif]

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And confuse the reader. I used to get dinged in writing class for switching pov mid-page.
I can see why here.

The "---" marking the scene change is right there after the image, so if it weren't for the presence of the image in precisely the right location to mask the scene change, it'd probably be fine.

That said, personally I'd establish a new POV character via casual name dropping in the first paragraph after the scene change, if not in the first sentence.

I'm guessing Roger didn't even try to contact Ivan and simply lied to Parson about it. He's not there to help them. Why waste juice on this call when he can lie and say he was refused.

Everything Ivan said to Parson through Roger would become something Roger knows to the exact same degree Parson does. It'd be easy recon.

[halfeye]

If by communication channels you Ivan being busy, possibly, but he?/they? is in a fragile state. And it's ok for him to Refuse a call.
If by communication channels you mean actual writing - not really They are only good at confusion.

I mean the books and hats are useless because Charlie listens in, I mean Jed won't talk common, I mean Parson not having the usual warlord comms channels so he didn't personally learn Charlie's wealth. He still thinks 30 million schmuckers is a lot, but Charlie has over twenty (thirty?) times that and he doesn't know, even though he commands two units that do know it. Maggie having no juice is another channel that's not available for a silly reason.

[eschmenk]

I'm guessing Roger didn't even try to contact Ivan and simply lied to Parson about it. He's not there to help them. Why waste juice on this call when he can lie and say he was refused.

Maybe, but if so it almost backfired. Maggie was trying to go through Jed to get an order to Ivan to answer the next time Roger tried. Parson could have easily found that there wasn't a first attempt if that had worked out.

Roger might have wanted to contact Ivan because that way he could learn more about Parson's plans. Also, it would have been less likely to backfire on him if he did.

Everything Ivan said to Parson through Roger would become something Roger knows to the exact same degree Parson does. It'd be easy recon.

Yes, and probably would have been interested in what Parson would say, too. Even if Parson just asked questions, he might have been able to deduce why he asked them.

[Narkis]

I'm more curious about the fact that Parson apparently forgot about Bonnie's deal with the Great Minds. And wasn't Roger's plan to cut Parson's string as soon as he saw him? What's with the subterfuge all of a sudden?

[-D-]

I'm more curious about the fact that Parson apparently forgot about Bonnie's deal with the Great Minds. And wasn't Roger's plan to cut Parson's string as soon as he saw him? What's with the subterfuge all of a sudden?

Roger wants to kill Maggie, Bill, Parson in one fell swoop.

[Razade]

I'm more curious about the fact that Parson apparently forgot about Bonnie's deal with the Great Minds. And wasn't Roger's plan to cut Parson's string as soon as he saw him? What's with the subterfuge all of a sudden?

Did Parson ever know about the deal Bonnie made? He wasn't told about it after he was repatriated was he? And maybe Rodger doesn't want to be gunned down by all the other people in the room?

[eschmenk]

Did Parson ever know about the deal Bonnie made? He wasn't told about it after he was repatriated was he? And maybe Rodger doesn't want to be gunned down by all the other people in the room?

I couldn't remember that he knew either, but I reread some pages and found it on page 184. That's when Jack and Parson had sneaked out of their cells. I think Rob probably forgot, too.

[-D-]

I couldn't remember that he knew either, but I reread some pages and found it on page 184. That's when Jack and Parson had sneaked out of their cells. I think Rob probably forgot, too.

Good catch. I suspected that, but was extremely unsure. On one hand I can understand why. It happened a year ago...

On the other hand, I hope people will now believe me, when I'm saying how something that happened years ago might get forgotten by the author

[Anteros]

How did she manage to tell them all this without penalty anyway? Parson can't even tell Roger his own plans without being afraid of penalty, but Bonnie can give away all of Charlie's secrets and defenses to one of Charlie's enemies with no penalty? That's not very consistent.

[Razade]

How did she manage to tell them all this without penalty anyway? Parson can't even tell Roger his own plans without being afraid of penalty, but Bonnie can give away all of Charlie's secrets and defenses to one of Charlie's enemies with no penalty? That's not very consistent.

She's Decrypted. Decryption seems to break previous deals. She was also not a member of GK when the thing was drafted. She's not under the Deal. The Deal also doesn't specify directly mentioning things Charlie has.

[Anteros]

She's Decrypted. Decryption seems to break previous deals. She was also not a member of GK when the thing was drafted. She's not under the Deal.

No. There's no way that makes sense. She's still a GK unit that is breaking the deal. By that logic they could just create a bunch of decrypted units and form up an assault party on Charlie with no penalties.

Also the Dirtamancer and Dollamancer are explicitly constricted by the deal, so this is obviously wrong.

The Deal also doesn't specify directly mentioning things Charlie has.

Then why is Parson so worried about even mentioning to Roger that he wants to know these things?

[Razade]

No. There's no way that makes sense. She's still a GK unit that is breaking the deal. By that logic they could just create a bunch of decrypted units and form up an assault party on Charlie with no penalties.

Bonnie is not attacking a member of Charlescomm by telling the Great Minds the layout of his city. That isn't part of the Deal.

Also the Dirtamancer and Dollamancer are explicitly constricted by the deal, so this is obviously wrong.

They're restricted from attacking units. Not talking about anything regarding Charlie.

Then why is Parson so worried about even mentioning to Roger that he wants to know these things?

He's not. Parson is blocked from talking about the contents of the deal with anyone. Much like Wanda, Jack and Jillian were with the deal they worked out with Charlie in the past. A fact that stopped for Jack when he died and came back to life.

[Anteros]

Bonnie is not attacking a member of Charlescomm by telling the Great Minds the layout of his city. That isn't part of the Deal.



They're restricted from attacking units. Not talking about anything regarding Charlie.



He's not. Parson is blocked from talking about the contents of the deal with anyone. Much like Wanda, Jack and Jillian were with the deal they worked out with Charlie in the past. A fact that stopped for Jack when he died and came back to life.

You're moving the goal posts here. You said she wasn't under the deal, when it's clearly incorrect. It doesn't really matter in the context of the larger conversation, but still.

The deal with Jack was with him as an individual. It's pretty clear that it's a different situation than a deal with an entire side. If they ended GK as a side and re-founded it to get out of the deal it would be more similar.

"Well...Charlie stuff. The layout of the Charlescomm's portal room and their traps" he said, kind of wincing. He half expected it to cost him one of these gems for saying even that much.

If talking about it can't incur penalties then this part of today's comic makes no sense. He should be able to talk about it all day with no penalty.

[Razade]

You're moving the goal posts here. You said she wasn't under the deal, when it's clearly incorrect. It doesn't really matter in the context of the larger conversation, but still.

No I'm not.

She's Decrypted. Decryption seems to break previous deals. She was also not a member of GK when the thing was drafted. She's not under the Deal. The Deal also doesn't specify directly mentioning things Charlie has.

The others are just conjecture. I said from the start that talking about things Charlie has does not incur a penalty. Obviously it doesn't. No one's been pinged talking about the forces of Charlie. The details of the deal are spelled out.

Charlescomm:
30 turns truce with Gobwin Knob.
Pay 227,800 Shmuckers to Gobwin Knob.
Secure release of the 21 Gobwin Knob units being held prisoner by Faq.
Release Gobwin Knob from all prior agreements.
Provide full details of the Dismiss Perfect Warlord scroll in Parson's possession.
Non-disclosure of the details of the agreement, until 90 turns after its end.
Gobwin Knob:
30 turns truce with Charlescomm.
30 turns unilateral non-aggression against Faq, except in self-defense.
Even in cases of self-defense, no harm or destruction of Jillian specifically.
Non-disclosure of the details of the agreement, until 90 turns after its end.
The agreement also provides for the following penalties:

For breaching the truce: half of the breaching side's treasury, to a maximum of 5,000,000 or a minimum of 500,000 Shmuckers.
If unable to meet the 500,000 Shmucker minimum, an equivalent value in units and/or cities.
For violating non-disclosure: one city of the other side's choice.
For Charlescomm failing any of its special obligations: 500,000 Shmuckers or an equivalent value in units and/or cities.

The deal with Jack was with him as an individual. It's pretty clear that it's a different situation than a deal with an entire side. If they ended GK as a side and re-founded it to get out of the deal it would be more similar.

Actually no. It was the side of Faq, any who were present at the trial of Olive Branch. It's ending was different however, not by turns but by croaking which is how Jack got out of it.

If talking about it can't incur penalties then this part of today's comic makes no sense. He should be able to talk about it all day with no penalty.

You're conflating two things.

Talking about the Deal (its terms etc) incurs a penalty. (This is covered by "Non-disclosure of the details of the agreement, until 90 turns after its end.")

Talking about Charlie's forces does not incur a penalty. (Note above that no such thing is spelled out anywhere in the contract)


Bonnie is doing the latter. Not the former. Parson doesn't know the latter and can't talk about the former. That's why no penalties are being wracked up by Bonnie but would be by Parson. They're two separate things.

[Anteros]

Ok, most of this is besides the point so I'm going to ignore it. All this brings us back to my original point of WHY IS PARSON WORRIED ABOUT BEING PENALIZED FOR SAYING HE WANTS INFORMATION ON CHARLIE?

It's either a part of the deal, or it's not. So either it's bad writing earlier where Bonnie gave out all the information without penalty, or it's bad writing now because rules against sharing that kind of information was never part of the deal. I agree with you that it's not part of the deal, but it seems like Rob forgot what the deal actually entails when he wrote this.