Erfworld Thread X: A Series of Unfortunate Cliffhangers

[DigoDragon]

Also, no Thinkalikes to safely decouple the link. Only Maggie, Bunny and Traitorjudge.

And at the moment Bunny is "nursing a sore throat".

[Leewei]

Wanda wants Charlie dead, and wants it a lot. The GMtTA backstabbed her and GK very recently. She will give Isaac what (er, whom) he needs to mess with Charlie, but she (with very good cause) does not trust him enough to link with him.

[JavaScribe]

The GMtTA backstabbed her and GK very recently. She will give Isaac what (er, whom) he needs to mess with Charlie, but she (with very good cause) does not trust him enough to link with him.

Was she ever informed of the deal and backstab?

[Leewei]

Was she ever informed of the deal and backstab?

That's a very good question. Bonnie is decrypted. As such, anything she witnesses may also be known to Wanda. There's no assurance that this is the case, though.

[Anteros]

Does he even have to listen to Wanda? Obviously the pliers give her some sort of leverage, but she's not a warlord, and not even a chief caster. She doesn't even have the pliers. I'm not even sure she can disband him.

It does? Both Ivan and DeIsaac have distinct speaking voices. What I suspect is that detangling DeIsaac and caster reeks of death.

I don't know. I definitely got a "join the collective" vibe as well. I also suspect it may be permanent and involve a loss of individualism.

[eschmenk]

Well, since it's Wanda, I just assumed that she's probably reserving herself for whatever she expects Fate to want her to do.

[Zalabim]

She certainly doesn't look like she wants Claude to join either, but maybe she's been convinced that he has to.

As to disbanding him or not, I think Wanda just means that she can destroy Claude with a thought, since he's Decrypted and she's the Croakamancer and Attuned that made him. She said earlier that she couldn't do anything about Lilith in CC, but Claude is right in front of her. Even though he has a gun, I'd put my money on Wanda winning any fight between them. It doesn't look as though Claude wants to use that thing either, or he could shoot Isaac.

[eschmenk]

Does he even have to listen to Wanda? Obviously the pliers give her some sort of leverage, but she's not a warlord, and not even a chief caster. She doesn't even have the pliers. I'm not even sure she can disband him.

I think she's probably bluffing, but it's still a very powerful thing to say to Claud. Since he's decrypted, emotionally he lives to serve her. The idea that she wouldn't want him at all if he didn't agree to join would be a huge deal for him.

I don't know. I definitely got a "join the collective" vibe as well. I also suspect it may be permanent and involve a loss of individualism.

There wasn't a complete lost of individuality for Ivan. "You are bound to us, but separate. You remain discrete." That said, if the Big Think unraveled, Ivan wouldn't survive. No one seems to be even thinking about spinning Ivan or Claud loose at some point. Partially for meta reasons, I wouldn't expect them to survive permanently, but I don't really know.

[lord_khaine]

There is a very large loss of identity though. Ivan stopped using his own name, and became Dirtamancer.

"Then you croaked... "began Dirtamancer. He could not say us, but he remembered a little more about that Ivan Poe character he were distantly related to. "you croaked Charlies Hackers"

From page 267 also does seem to indicate, that from Dirtamancers point of view Ivan Poe is dead and gone.

[eschmenk]

I don't know how much to read into that. Yes, on one hand it's as if Ivan has changed so much that he might not be able to be changed back to what he was before even if Big Think tried to set him free. OTOH, on the current page, Ivan called Claud and Wanda "Dollamancer" and "Croakamancer," even though they haven't changed yet. That would seem to indicate that the terminology might not mean much.

[Yuki Akuma]

They're linked. When linked, Casters are always referred to by class rather than by name. Treating them as individuals is a bad idea.

[lord_khaine]

The important bit is that even in the privacy of its own mind, Dirtamancer still only think of itself as distantly related to Ivan.

[halfeye]

The important bit is that even in the privacy of its own mind, Dirtamancer still only think of itself as distantly related to Ivan.

Yeah, but the important and so far (IIRC) unanswered question is did Dirtamancer think of himself as Dirtamancer or Ivan post decrypting but before joining?

[lord_khaine]

Yeah, but the important and so far (IIRC) unanswered question is did Dirtamancer think of himself as Dirtamancer or Ivan post decrypting but before joining?

Seriously?
How can that even be a question, let alone an important one? We have seen that decryption dont leave any meaningful changes on peoples personality. We have seen Ivan did not change in any meaningful way after decryption. We have seen that he changed a LOT after joining.

[halfeye]

Seriously?
How can that even be a question

I forget stuff. I'm not sure whether the internal dialog going up to meet the minds said who Ivan thought he was. All the decrypted could be like Greg, look the same on the outside, different inside. Which would make Jillian right about something, which would be interesting. I'm not saying I think it's true, but I don't remember anything canon that says it's definitively false.

[Anteros]

Let's just all agree that it's still a bit ambiguous and could go either way before we devolve into a big argument again.

[Xihirli]

I think she's probably bluffing, but it's still a very powerful thing to say to Claud. Since he's decrypted, emotionally he lives to serve her. The idea that she wouldn't want him at all if he didn't agree to join would be a huge deal for him.

Have any Decrypted casters shown signs of emotional dependency on Wanda? I don't remember any "I love Wanda" from Jack, Ace, Marie, or the Beans. Not from Ivan or Claude either. It might be that casters keep most of their free will post-decryption, excepting their sense of Duty to the pliers.

[Razade]

Have any Decrypted casters shown signs of emotional dependency on Wanda? I don't remember any "I love Wanda" from Jack, Ace, Marie, or the Beans. Not from Ivan or Claude either. It might be that casters keep most of their free will post-decryption, excepting their sense of Duty to the pliers.

Marie flat out says she has no change in her at all. Unless someone wants to argue that she may have been altered in a way she doesn't know I think we should take the word of a Decrypted who openly declared their intention to turn to another side without any lack conviction over...internet arguers.

[Douglas]

I'm pretty sure casters in a link referring to themselves by discipline rather than name is just a part of how links in general work. Why else would addressing them by name risk breaking the link?

[stsasser]

Let's just all agree that it's still a bit ambiguous and could go either way before we devolve into a big argument again.

Before? After? We will devolve into a big argument either way.

[NEO|Phyte]

It's well established that a link comes with a large degree of losing one's Self while in the link. Ivan is still in there somewhere, but the linkself sort of stuffs him into a closet or something so it can work without distraction.

[Anteros]

Have any Decrypted casters shown signs of emotional dependency on Wanda? I don't remember any "I love Wanda" from Jack, Ace, Marie, or the Beans. Not from Ivan or Claude either. It might be that casters keep most of their free will post-decryption, excepting their sense of Duty to the pliers.

Ansom outright says his love of Jillian transferred to Wanda after decryption. Jack considers her a sister, and he certainly didn't before.

[eschmenk]

Yes, and GK's decrypted units, like Bonnie and Ace, were the most upset that more wasn't being done to rescue Wanda.

They're linked. When linked, Casters are always referred to by class rather than by name. Treating them as individuals is a bad idea.

But Wanda and Claud weren't linked.

Marie flat out says she has no change in her at all. Unless someone wants to argue that she may have been altered in a way she doesn't know I think we should take the word of a Decrypted who openly declared their intention to turn to another side without any lack conviction over...internet arguers.

I don't know if Marie is an exception or is downplaying it or what, but she seems to be an unusual case. She apparently views her ultimate loyalty as being to Fate, but her loyalty apparently goes through Wanda. I'm not sure what to make of that yet, but I think if she views Wanda as Fate's agent, she'll still be incredibly loyal to Wanda.

I'll note that Jillian seemed to think that all decrypted are only loyal to Wanda.

[Razade]

I'll note that Jillian seemed to think that all decrypted are only loyal to Wanda.

Jillian is just demonstrably wrong about the Decrypted on every front really, mostly clouded by Ansom.

[keybounce]

I don't know. I definitely got a "join the collective" vibe as well. I also suspect it may be permanent and involve a loss of individualism.

So, a bit of a cross between "Join Petey and the FleetMind", and "Attention attorney, the drone collective wants you"?

[Rockphed]

So, a bit of a cross between "Join Petey and the FleetMind", and "Attention attorney, the drone collective wants you"?

Is it fair to compare Schlock Mercenary to Erfworld on any front? I now feel the need to do an archive trawl of the former. I don't have time to do so.

[-D-]

The biggest news is that deadline is very soon or broken and no Erfworld. Welp. Perhaps we need a Rob update that moves target zone to GMT +24.

[DataNinja]

New Update

Spoiler

Show

Well, Charlie might be soon getting an AI. Whether it's the helpful or homicidal kind... who knows? Heck, since the 'Dish is on the Tower, well, it might just take that for itself.

Edit:
Posted 45 minutes prior to this post on Facebook was this:
"Been trying for an hour to post the comic but getting a 504 at the site. Web team is on it."

[Anteros]

Does anyone remember when Erfworld was a comic?

Honestly, I can't even bring myself to read these giant poorly written blocks of text anymore. I just kinda skim them and follow the forum conversation to get the general idea.

[smuchmuch]

i enjoy text updates when they gave a better insight in the head and motivation of characters or into the lore and devellop the settings in way that would have been superfluous in the comic. I like it less when they are vital to the plot but too long.

That and Deeisac (I normaly dislike using the expression 'deus ex machina', I've seen it overused and in context when it doesn't apply, but i think it does to a point here. ithe fact that the great mind could reist death by melding in one superpowered individual even despite the fact their death came as complete surprise and therefore they shouldn't have been able to react to it, came out of nowhere with little justification, little foreshadowing and it fixes abput everythign int he storry with little effort involved from other chaarcters) apprently fixing everything make it hard to care about the ongoing.. conflict ? If it can ever still be called that. Pretty much since it killed all the archon arpound wanda withoput apprent effort, if feel there's little siituation it can't just magic away, especialy if it has decrypted casters to link with. Kinda whish they'd stop pretending there's still tensiopn and finish this.