Is OOTS even trying anymore?

[ATrueFan]

Original Post:

Jesus we have been on this air ship for almost 2 years of real time.

Ever since he did the kick starter this comic has gone down hill in terms of quality.

Please just focus on what really matters which is progressing the actual STORY that is currently happening.

Edit: This will also be in a post in this thread so it bumps to top

A lot of people have posted in this thread regarding specifics to my criticism of the OOTS webcomic.

Well I am here to give specifics.

1. Several people have pointed out that I may be breaking the rules of the forum by mentioning the time it takes for an update. I wish to clarify that in no way do I care about how often this comic updates. It will be finished when it is finished as all great works of art should be.
-On a separate issue the fact that it is even against the rules to do such a thing is ridiculous in and of itself. I can understand you would not like hearing over and over how long it is taking to finish the comic or post updates, but its a valid concern for people to have. Not advocating for or against either side here.

2. Am I a troll? No.

3. On complaining about free content: The webcomic is free, but if you want the entire story you need to buy the prequel books. Its freemium content, and if I have paid for something I have the right to express my opinion of the quality of the product or the product that is currently in the works, such as the NEXT book being put out.

4. The kick starter issue: The kick starter was done for REPRINTS of the original books, and I have no problem with that, I was able to buy the books after the kick starter. What I have an issue with is the fact that BEFORE the kick starter the webcomic was the main focus, now as some have said, Mr. Burlew has had to change his priorites towards fulfilling pledges. How long has it been since the kick starter came out? 2012? The time it takes to update is not the important part here, its weather or not the STORY QUALITY is impacted by the webcomic not being the main focus. My argument of course being how long its taken in IN COMIC TIME to accomplish anything in this new story arc. It is my opinion and nothing more and having examples of where I think the story should have gone a different path are irrelevant. What is relevant is that this comic has been impacted negatively from having to fulfill obligations to backers. Some may agree some may disagree, but I know a few people have posted in this thread agreeing with me.

5. Do I know Mr. Burlew is trying? Of course I know this. I am venting frustration towards the meta story than to the creator himself. I have nothing but respect for what Mr. Burlew is doing, and wish him luck on finishing his magnum opus.

6. I understand my original post was vague.

7.

@ATrueFan (if that's your real name)- What exactly is it that you dislike about the airship passage, and how do you feel it could be improved? Do you mean that the pacing is off? Do you mean that the update schedule is slow? Or do you mean that the airship should not have been included at all, and if so, why? Or is it something else entirely? Your post is a bit light on specifics.

-I don't think this entire segment needed to be done. Ask yourself what has happened since they left the Godsmoot. Anything important? I was under the impression that'd we would be finally be confronting Xykon and getting down to the most important battle in the strips history <This is an opinion. What I see happening feels more like FILLER. Were just supposed to now care about whats happening with Bandanna and the crew, whole strips have been dedicated to their own struggles with whats happening, and I have to ask who cares? These characters are not important to the main story in any way, or have yet to be shown to influence anything. I feel that this whole ogre plot is specifically set up so we can be introduced to the crew on a more personal level. It throws off any suspense of racing to get to Xykon when were still talking about who gets to lead the ship. Does it matter who is behind the wheel of the airship? Is that central to Roy stabbing Xykon? I dont know. Just seems unimportant compared to what we could be reading about. Again it is just an opinion.

And thats it so far. Will look for more posts and reply when I can.

-ATrueFan

[Kish]

It is apparent from your first two sentences that you do not, in fact, like the actual story (caps not necessary) that is currently happening. That you want something else, which you're defining as the actual story, while the story being told is somehow a fake story.

Get used to disappointment.

[pendell]

Jesus we have been on this air ship for almost 2 years of real time.

Ever since he did the kick starter this comic has gone down hill in terms of quality.

Please just focus on what really matters which is progressing the actual STORY that is currently happening.

Yes, he does care, and yes he's trying.

I don't have the thread links where he's discussed this , but here is the scoop as we know it:

1) Rich has some unspecified condition , which is why he's working in comics as opposed to full time in advertising, which is what he used to do. In some terms, he has fewer spoons than an average person.

2) Kickstarter did have an impact. Rich tells us that every morning when he wakes up he has to decide which of three beasts to tackle:

A) Kickstarter rewards (which he promised people specifically to deliver).
B) Merchandising, such as calendars, games and so forth. This is not something he promised, but it does pay his bills.
C) The comic itself. Which does not generate revenue, but does attract readers who may at some point buy stuff in category B.

C) is his lowest priority. He does attend to it -- he posted three comics almost back-to-back a few weeks ago -- but , again, other things called him away.

So yes, he is trying.

It's not surprising that you're disappointed. You're far from the only one and some have made their displeasure extremely vocal. He is well aware of how his update schedule stacks up against the rest of the industry. Being a perfectionist, it wouldn't surprise me if he was less happy about it than anyone here.

He's aware of the problem. Telling him about it again isn't going to make him produce it any faster.

So all I can suggest is to enjoy the forum, or take a break and come back in a few weeks for additional updates. Game of Thrones the books hasn't updated in years. OOTS is a bit faster than that!

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[SilverCacaobean]

You, sir, are a true fan and a true scotsman! One could argue that not actually liking the story makes you not a fan at all, but what do they know, am I right? They are false fans. I am sure you know what makes you a true fan. It's probably the same thing that makes you a true scotsman. Thank you very much for voicing what all true fans are thinking. Which is, that they don't like the story! Here, have a true cookie.

[martianmister]

You just created this account for trolling, right?

[KorvinStarmast]

You just created this account for trolling, right?

The join date says 2016, but the only posts are recent and ... well, 'nuff said.

[137beth]

Seems like Roy and Elan tried pretty hard in knocking the frost giant off of the airship. So, yea, I think The Order of the Stick are still trying to accomplish their goal of saving the world.

[Alcore]

I'm getting sick of the airship myself and have lost empathy with most of the world he has made. The Giant made a good world; it lampshades the issues with alignment and 'always X' races so well. But that is why i haved lost empathy.


I root for redcloak and the dark one. I wish to see good being done not good being upheld as status quo marches on.... I also wish to the monster in the darkness and how the halfling dies. After that there is not much else to wait for.

[Peelee]

I, too, am upset at how long we've been in Azure City the afterlife the desert the Godsmoot the airship.

[Nightcanon]

It never ceases to amaze me how people can have so little self-awareness that they will blunder onto a website that they access for free and complain that the comic that they have been reading for free isn't produced as quickly as they want, or doesn't follow the direction that they want it to follow.

@pendell: thanks for the spoons analogy, which rescues this thread from being an irredeemable loss.

Regards, Nightcanon

[Grey_Wolf_c]

It never ceases to amaze me how people can have so little self-awareness that they will blunder onto a website that they access for free and complain that the comic that they have been reading for free isn't produced as quickly as they want, or doesn't follow the direction that they want it to follow.

[insert here vague platitudes about youth these days that could have been lifted wholesale from 4000-year-old clay tablets from the Mesopotamian civilization]

Seriously, self-entitlement is a constant of human beings. I've been listening to the History of Rome podcast lately, and if you think this is bad, you should hear what the Roman citizens (of the lower classes, which were about 90% of the city's population) thought about their free grain allotments (in today's episode, I learnt that said "grain" allotments included wine, and that to the average Roman citizen, the possibility of starving to death was about level with the possibility of going to bed sober).

GW

[Cazero]

Seriously, self-entitlement is a constant of human beings. I've been listening to the History of Rome podcast lately, and if you think this is bad, you should hear what the Roman citizens (of the lower classes, which were about 90% of the city's population) thought about their free grain allotments (in today's episode, I learnt that said "grain" allotments included wine, and that to the average Roman citizen, the possibility of starving to death was about level with the possibility of going to bed sober).

From what I know, Roman/Greek "citizenship" of antiquity would be called "nobility" in medieval times, "bourgeoisie" by Karl Marx and "filthy rich" today.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

From what I know, Roman/Greek "citizenship" of antiquity would be called "nobility" in medieval times, "bourgeoisie" by Karl Marx and "filthy rich" today.

No, that was just the senatorial families. To be of senatorial rank, you had to pay 1 Million sestertii per year to the state. And if (IIRC) Pliny the Younger is to be believed, that was spare change to most senatorial families (he himself did not think himself "rich", despite a fortune of about 20 million), at a time when the "lower middle class" (that was ineligible for grain subsidies, and thus struggled to pay for their own food) was making about 20,000 sestertii a year.

The poorest citizens, whom I referenced above where an order of magnitude larger than the lowest-class, and had no income other than handouts from the senatorial class (who showed off their wealth by the number of people they had patronages with).

The top, truly rich, senatorial families might have been as low as 20 or 30 families in total. And their own fortunes were dwarfed, of course, by that of the Imperial family.

(I recommend listening to episode 86 for more accurate numbers, mind you. I'm doing this from memory and only after a single listening).

GW

[Peelee]

From what I know, Roman/Greek "citizenship" of antiquity would be called "nobility" in medieval times, "bourgeoisie" by Karl Marx and "filthy rich" today.

That would be quite the feat, since no small part of why the Roman Empire was so successful was that their conquered peoples became full citizens.

[denthor]

Attention a true fan (atic)

NEW COMIC UP?

spoiler alert it is all about the airship that was introduced to Elan when his brother took his place and framed him for multiple murder as not Nale.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

That would be quite the feat, since no small part of why the Roman Empire was so successful was that their conquered peoples became full citizens.

...Eventually. It took several centuries and more than one uprising for each new group to attain full citizenship. Although by Trojan's time, that was indeed the case (and my numbers come from post-Trojan)

I should also note that I was talking about the population of Rome the city, not the empire-wide population (where most people were even porer, because they worked the land owned by the richest families - it is easy to see how the patronage system evolved into the feudal one).

GW

[Murk]

That would be quite the feat, since no small part of why the Roman Empire was so successful was that their conquered peoples became full citizens.

Or slaves. Or entertainment objects in parades and battles. Or meat shields on the front lines. Or farm fertilizer. Or just some random schmucks who disappeared into a slum somewhere.

[Neoriceisgood]

Has it been that long?


Either way, I've been enjoying the airship stuff a lot; It's not necessarily easy to keep updating a solo-man project like a weebcomic for as long as Rich has, whilst upholding quality. Nothing but respect from my side.

[Leirus]

Yes, he does care, and yes he's trying.

I don't have the thread links where he's discussed this , but here is the scoop as we know it:

1) Rich has some unspecified condition , which is why he's working in comics as opposed to full time in advertising, which is what he used to do. In some terms, he has fewer spoons than an average person.

2) Kickstarter did have an impact. Rich tells us that every morning when he wakes up he has to decide which of three beasts to tackle:

A) Kickstarter rewards (which he promised people specifically to deliver).
B) Merchandising, such as calendars, games and so forth. This is not something he promised, but it does pay his bills.
C) The comic itself. Which does not generate revenue, but does attract readers who may at some point buy stuff in category B.

C) is his lowest priority. He does attend to it -- he posted three comics almost back-to-back a few weeks ago -- but , again, other things called him away.

So yes, he is trying.

It's not surprising that you're disappointed. You're far from the only one and some have made their displeasure extremely vocal. He is well aware of how his update schedule stacks up against the rest of the industry. Being a perfectionist, it wouldn't surprise me if he was less happy about it than anyone here.

He's aware of the problem. Telling him about it again isn't going to make him produce it any faster.

So all I can suggest is to enjoy the forum, or take a break and come back in a few weeks for additional updates. Game of Thrones the books hasn't updated in years. OOTS is a bit faster than that!

Respectfully,

Brian P.

You are an awesome, calm, patient person. My gut reaction would have get into trouble.

[goodpeople25]

Anyone else experiencing déjà vu? I vaugely remember something quite similar to this.

Couldn't find anything through searching and the OP's profile showed only recent stuff but on a different note would a thread/post being deleted or something account for a discrepancy in number of posts on an accounts profile?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Anyone else experiencing déjà vu? I vaugely remember something quite similar to this.

Couldn't find anything through searching and the OP's profile showed only recent stuff but on a different note would a thread/post being deleted or something account for a discrepancy in number of posts on an accounts profile?

After a while, all complainers sound the same. I'm sure you've seen similar posts by other people unsatisfied by the direction of the story or, more commonly, by the speed of updates.

Could this individual have posted something like this and then deleted it? Sure. He also could be a sock puppet. But the most parsimonious explanation is that he is yet another dissatisfied reader who decided to tell the forum what he felt and then left. He ain't the first, nor will he be the last, I suspect.

GW

[Xyril]

You, sir, are a true fan and a true scotsman! One could argue that not actually liking the story makes you not a fan at all, but what do they know, am I right? They are false fans. I am sure you know what makes you a true fan. It's probably the same thing that makes you a true scotsman. Thank you very much for voicing what all true fans are thinking. Which is, that they don't like the story! Here, have a true cookie.

I completely agree with this sentiment.

While I too am bothered by (but completely understand) the fact that updates have been sporadic, most likely due to the combination of Burlew's health and the substantial other commitments he chose to put on, I am far more bothered by the tone of OPs post. On there own, I might overlook the implication that other fans aren't true fans or that the story OP does't like isn't the true story, but put it all together and it smacks of a certain whining, entitled, narcissistic arrogance that really rubs me the wrong way and will either do nothing, or worse, be counterproductive in encouraging the author to fix the perceived flaws.

It's helpful to criticize specific shortcomings of a work; it is helpful to share your subjective opinion of what parts of a story you like and what parts you don't like. It's not helpful to harp on something the author is doing wrong (fewer updates) when he knows it's a bad thing, has acknowledged is a bad thing, but also can't change in the near future due to a combination of circumstances outside his control and the consequences of prior decisions that cannot be unmade.

[goodpeople25]

After a while, all complainers sound the same. I'm sure you've seen similar posts by other people unsatisfied by the direction of the story or, more commonly, by the speed of updates.

Could this individual have posted something like this and then deleted it? Sure. He also could be a sock puppet. But the most parsimonious explanation is that he is yet another dissatisfied reader who decided to tell the forum what he felt and then left. He ain't the first, nor will he be the last, I suspect.

GW

The name itself is what got me thinking though, at this point I definitely have a filter for this type of post content. So I thought it was worth it to ask around, and there does appear to he a discrepancy so I wanted to see if anyone knew how that worked regardless.

[DataNinja]

Anyone else experiencing déjà vu? I vaugely remember something quite similar to this.

I believe so, as I recall the same irony of the name occurring before. Of course, there's always the possibility that we're experiencing the same... déjà vu...

Say, no one happens to have a phone handy, would they? Uh, asking for a friend.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

The name itself is what got me thinking though

I checked my ignore list, in case something popped up, but unfortunately, I don't usually ignore this kind of drive-by poster, since they are unlikely to stick around to futilely attempt to defend their indefensible tone, complaint, position, etc.

But yes, I'll grant you it does seem to ring a bell.

GW

[Lacuna Caster]

You, sir, are a true fan and a true scotsman! One could argue that not actually liking the story makes you not a fan at all...

Okay, whoa. It's possible the OP is unhappy with the pace of events, not necessarily with the actual structure of the plot. And there is no inherent requirement that you be a fan in order to complain about a work (even if it makes the moniker a bit odd.)


With that said:

@ATrueFan (if that's your real name)- What exactly is it that you dislike about the airship passage, and how do you feel it could be improved? Do you mean that the pacing is off? Do you mean that the update schedule is slow? Or do you mean that the airship should not have been included at all, and if so, why? Or is it something else entirely? Your post is a bit light on specifics.

EDIT: I'd also point out, if you are complaining about the update schedule, then that's a schedule complaint and the thread will be locked.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Okay, whoa. It's possible the OP is unhappy with the pace of events, not necessarily with the actual structure of the plot.

Ever since he did the kick starter this comic has gone down hill in terms of quality.

Please just focus on what really matters which is progressing the actual STORY that is currently happening.

(emphasis mine)

Those are clear comments not on the pace but on the plot.

GW

[pendell]

...Eventually. It took several centuries and more than one uprising for each new group to attain full citizenship. Although by Trojan's time, that was indeed the case (and my numbers come from post-Trojan)

I should also note that I was talking about the population of Rome the city, not the empire-wide population (where most people were even porer, because they worked the land owned by the richest families - it is easy to see how the patronage system evolved into the feudal one).

GW

I'm given to understand the meaning of 'citizen' became diluted over the years. In the time of Augustine, it was mostly restricted to Rome and allied Italian cities -- wasn't that what the Socii war was about? To extend citizenship to the other members of the Latin league? Acquiring citizenship by any other means was very rare and very expensive. But that's from memory.

Anyway, fast forward several hundred years. By the time the Empire falls in 476 citizenship in the empire is universal but also near-meaningless.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Lacuna Caster]

Those are clear comments not on the pace but on the plot.

*shrugs* It's possible s/he considers bad pacing to be a form of poor quality. We don't know, and I don't think a massive threadpile on the subject is productive until we do.

[Peelee]

*shrugs* It's possible s/he considers bad pacing to be a form of poor quality.

...and? If they do, then it's against forum rules, and the entire premise of the thread is unproductive. If they don't, then others are allowed to voice their own opinions as well. Either way, nothing is lost by people objecting to someone expressing a point of view in a forum that is intended to foster discussion.