OOTS #1076 - The Discussion Thread

[denthor]

Drop it like a spock.

Why does diplomacy always mean we do not speak of it?

[Jasdoif]

Cool plan, but it kind of doesn't make sense. Civilian ships had weapons on them, so removing them wouldn't decrease suspicion.

Bandana said Julio got the ballistas installed during "the war". And during a war, I'm pretty sure any independent armed ship is going to attract attention regardless of any legitimate reason it may have to be armed.

[Doug Lampert]

Bandana said Julio got the ballistas installed during "the war". And during a war, I'm pretty sure any independent armed ship is going to attract attention regardless of any legitimate reason it may have to be armed.

Nah, for centuries in our world any ship sailing long distances would have had at least a few guns. Lack of any guns at all would actually be more suspicious, wartime or peacetime. That said:

Cool plan, but it kind of doesn't make sense. Civilian ships had weapons on them, so removing them wouldn't decrease suspicion.

But then again, my proof are letters from 18th century American leaders, so I'm guessing they won't help with a fictional universe.

Maybe different regulations are put on ships than in real life? But if there are, how are ships in this world supposed to protect themselves from pirates? Do civilian ships have to assemble a military convoy every time they embark?

Civilian ships in our world carried guns, often a handful or so 6lbs or a 3lb pivot gun on the stern. Military ships, privateers, and some pirates of comparable size carried many more guns and heavier guns.

The civilian ships simply didn't have the crew or space for the sort of battery a military ship carried (and the real military ships also had much thicker hulls and reinforced decking, partly to deal with the shock of firing those guns).

It's perfectly possible to tell a military ship of the era from a civilian ship by examining the weaponry. If the covered decks are full of cargo space with a handful of small gunports or the guns are all deck guns on the open decks, civilian. If the sides are covered with rows of gunports and the only space for cargo is underwater even in calm seas, warship.

[pendell]

Your logic doesn't track. Even assuming for the sake of argument that you are correct, and (in OotS world) some civilian ships have weapons, the more important fact is that most, if not all pirate/privateer ships have weapons. If some civilian ships are also armed, then this must be even more true--if you're a pirate expecting every potential target to be unarmed, then you can reliably take ships with surprise and the threat of an armed boarding party and/or minimal ship-mounted weapons. If you expect that at least some of your targets will be shooting back, then you'll need more and bigger weapons to either force a surrender or win outright in a shooting match; pirating in an unarmed ship would be suicidal.

If you're an armed ship, then you might be an armed pirate ship, or you might be an armed civilian ship. If you're an unarmed ship, then you might be an unarmed civilian ship, but it is highly unlikely that you'd be an unarmed pirate ship, because those presumably wouldn't last all that long. Thus, by dropping your weapons, suspicion decreases.


Also, I'm hoping that once they're safely over the ridge, they send people back on foot (or send the fliers, once they rendezvous with the ship) to retrieve the Greenhilt sword and maybe some of the weapons. I am not particularly looking forward to the year-long extended side-quest where the Order has to retrieve the Xykon-killing McGuffin from whatever band of ice-toads wandered off with it while they were stopping Hel.

It seems to me that the Mechane has a lot of ballista, more than a civilian ship would reasonably need. A civvie ship might have one or two to fend off dragons. That many weapons covering all aspects of the ships is something a warship would have.

Still ... perhaps I'm wrong, but IIRC guns or ballistae are not the most important thing about a pirate ship. You're not trying to sink your targets, after all, but to capture them for looting. So you need a fast ship (to catch up to merchants, or to run away from warships) with a large crew ( to provide the boarding party). You probably don't need more than one gun to fire warning shots in order to signal a merchant to heave to.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[JoeyTheNeko]

welkl I guess that ends the andi subplot.

[Xyril]

It seems to me that the Mechane has a lot of ballista, more than a civilian ship would reasonably need. A civvie ship might have one or two to fend off dragons.

Honestly, that was my initial assessment as well, but I was trying to stretch all of my assumptions to favor 8bitninja's position as much as reasonable before questioning his logic. I decided that it was plausible that an airship is slow to turn and thus need all those ballistae not for the volume of weaponry, but in order to have complete coverage if they're attacked by a more agile opponent.

Still ... perhaps I'm wrong, but IIRC guns or ballistae are not the most important thing about a pirate ship.

Perhaps, but even in a world of completely unarmed civilian ships, I don't think a pirate ship could dispense with guns entirely. Also, even if all you need to fire is the single warning shot, I'm not sure how effective the warning would be without the visible threat of more guns backing them up. To a merchant captain, it might seem more appealing to face the danger of fleeing a pursuer shooting at you with a single cannon than to trust that self-interest will prompt the pirates to let you go after you surrender.

[Cazero]

Still ... perhaps I'm wrong, but IIRC guns or ballistae are not the most important thing about a pirate ship. You're not trying to sink your targets, after all, but to capture them for looting. So you need a fast ship (to catch up to merchants, or to run away from warships) with a large crew ( to provide the boarding party). You probably don't need more than one gun to fire warning shots in order to signal a merchant to heave to.

Being airships change things. They won't sink with a hole in the hull. You can then use ballistas to attach a rope in a hard to cut place, maybe even send a boarding party through an opening under the deck with some grouped shots.

[Leirus]

I am kind of wondering why Bandana is getting this much attention. Do not get me wrong, I like the character and I am loving the air travel strips. I am just wondering if she has a role to play after the trip is over. Or maybe they will be around in Firmament until they can carry the order to the final gate, so she is going to be a secondary character for the foreseeable future. In that case maybe she needs to be established as a firm captain that can convince her staff to remain in place. Or maybe I should stop worrying about the future and just enjoy the story as it comes.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I am kind of wondering why Bandana is getting this much attention. Do not get me wrong, I like the character and I am loving the air travel strips. I am just wondering if she has a role to play after the trip is over. Or maybe they will be around in Firmament until they can carry the order to the final gate, so she is going to be a secondary character for the foreseeable future. In that case maybe she needs to be established as a firm captain that can convince her staff to remain in place. Or maybe I should stop worrying about the future and just enjoy the story as it comes.

The Giant announced that he was taking steps to resolve the Smurfette syndrome of the OotS by having introduced a new female main character. I suspect that'd be Bandana. If so, she's probably here to stay.

Jasdoif, would you mind digging up the relevant quote?

Thanks in advance,

Grey Wolf

[Chei]

I am kind of wondering why Bandana is getting this much attention. Do not get me wrong, I like the character and I am loving the air travel strips. I am just wondering if she has a role to play after the trip is over. Or maybe they will be around in Firmament until they can carry the order to the final gate, so she is going to be a secondary character for the foreseeable future. In that case maybe she needs to be established as a firm captain that can convince her staff to remain in place. Or maybe I should stop worrying about the future and just enjoy the story as it comes.

She seems to have gotten about as much attention as most of the Sapphire Guard, in terms of being an allied heroic character (and after O-Chul got his own 96-page book, it seems downright minor). Given that, it's not too out-there that she and the crew are being developed/tried now so that they can be background supporting characters in the last book. I like the subplot and the character arc. The recent events, especially this strip's, are also quickly pushing the crew away from any potential in a combat role, which I seriously appreciate.

EDIT: Hm, on reading GW's post above, that seems like a solid idea. Also, I didn't mention it, but Bandana is pretty much the only member of the current crew to demonstrate any chops in combat. So I could see her being here to stay, and them being her peripherals.

[nrwillick]

Congrats, and I think that cigars are the way to go.

Congrats again,
Q

That's what I did with my first kid. Even my mom (very anti-smoking) participated.

[Jasdoif]

The Giant announced that he was taking steps to resolve the Smurfette syndrome of the OotS by having introduced a new female main character. I suspect that'd be Bandana. If so, she's probably here to stay.

Jasdoif, would you mind digging up the relevant quote?

The Twitter one from before this book started?

Any chance of another strong lead female character joining the group in the next arch?
RB: Depends on your definition of "lead." If you mean equal to core 6, no. Otherwise, yes. One is already here.

[SSGW Priest]

Shouldn't there be a "dun-dun-dun" when the weapons drop? I would expect they will need them at some point in the not so distant future.

Chekhov's ballista?

[SSGW Priest]

Now that the immediate fight is over, how soon does it click for that his sword is in one of an infinite number of snow banks?

[ceo]

If the Mechane was armed with ballista turrets, why didn't they use them against the giants?

[Jaxzan Proditor]

My inner backstory self is really curious as to what war they're referring to, but I'm guessing it's a) not relevant and b) unlikely to be expanded on.

Overall, very smooth by Bandana here. Definitely a good way to show why she should be Captain; there's just no way Andi could have done something like that. I'm curios to see if she has any words for Andi in the next strip.

Also I love the Order's reaction to this one. It was just a moment of pure Roy and Elan. Speaking of which, I wonder what the rest of the gang has been up to.

Congrats to PeeLee (and a much belated congrats to Grey_Wolf, while I'm at it)!

[Koo Rehtorb]

Tune in next time for more "Adventures of Captain DMPC and Some Other Guys".

[Peelee]

Tune in next time for more "Adventures of Captain DMPC and Some Other Guys".

I, too, hate when side characters start acting like they matter to the story.

[ManuelSacha]

That was an amazing trick, but if she studied under Julio, she should know that Rule of Drama will make it absolutely necessary for them to have ballistas later on.

[Leirus]

The Giant announced that he was taking steps to resolve the Smurfette syndrome of the OotS by having introduced a new female main character. I suspect that'd be Bandana. If so, she's probably here to stay.

Jasdoif, would you mind digging up the relevant quote?

Thanks in advance,

Grey Wolf

Oh, do not mind with the quote, your word is more than enough. Cool, that could mean she is going to be at least an important secondary character. Below O-Chul but far above, let us say, than Gannji and Enor.

[JumboWheat01]

The Giant announced that he was taking steps to resolve the Smurfette syndrome of the OotS by having introduced a new female main character. I suspect that'd be Bandana. If so, she's probably here to stay.

Jasdoif, would you mind digging up the relevant quote?

Thanks in advance,

Grey Wolf

The party balancer in me would hope for Lien to make a breakthrough to party-member status if one attempts to advert the smurfette syndrome, filling in the Lawful Good and Divine Magic role left vacant after poor Durkon was taken over by vampirism.

[Sylian]

The Twitter one from before this book started?

Couldn't it be Lien though? She's certainly part of the arc (along with O-Chul). It is plausible that both Lien and Bandana will play important roles in the current arc (in addition to the roles that they've already played).

[ThePhantasm]

So yeah, in about two strips Andi's going to go "but dumping the weapons also dumped our fuel reserves and cast mass dispel magic on the stuff that keeps the ship afloat despite the many laws of physics being broken". Bandana will be incredulous and asked why Andi didn't say anything, and then Andi will say that Bandana said that everyone needed to shush and listen to the captain.

That doesn't really make narrative sense. This seems to be the denouement of the mutiny subplot. Suddenly having Andy be right and Bandana be wrong would rub against the grain of the story at the moment.

[Kish]

The party balancer in me would hope for Lien to make a breakthrough to party-member status if one attempts to advert the smurfette syndrome, filling in the Lawful Good and Divine Magic role left vacant after poor Durkon was taken over by vampirism.

The party balancer in you seems to be treating Durkon as "gone" rather than "temporarily incapacitated." I believe it's making an error in so doing. I would also point out that as long as Roy is the leader of the Order the Lawful Good role is not left vacant.

[JT]

If the Mechane was armed with ballista turrets, why didn't they use them against the giants?

They did. See first panel of 1055 .. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1055.html

Apparently, they aren't too effective. There were a LOT of Giants.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

They did. See first panel of 1055 .. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1055.html

Apparently, they aren't too effective. There were a LOT of Giants.

I think some of them may also have been damaged by the rocks (see Panel 8) although that doesn't seem to be totally reflected in the strip today.

[yldenfrei]

The party balancer in me would hope for Lien to make a breakthrough to party-member status if one attempts to advert the smurfette syndrome, filling in the Lawful Good and Divine Magic role left vacant after poor Durkon was taken over by vampirism.

What Kish said, but also keep in mind Lien's waiting with O-Chul on Kraagor's Gate, where the final battle will presumably be. So regardless of achieving party-member status we can look forward to her getting more screentime, as I doubt she'd sit that one out.

[Morquard]

This page proves how useful Giant Strength would be to cleaning. Just pick up anything that's in your way and get the job done super fast.

Uhm... I'm kinda worried now about how often you find giant corpses or giant boulders in your house...

[Mandor]

I was briefly confusified (so what if that's not a word?) by the giant corpse, but of course, there HAD been more than one on the ship at the start. Funny how the brain edits out details until forced to re-calculate and double check such things.

[RndmNumGen]

Uhm... I'm kinda worried now about how often you find giant corpses or giant boulders in your house...

Roughly every Tuesday. Why, you don't?