El Goonish ShIVe: Damn It, Dan, Stop Teasing Us!

[Mith]

...What if Abraham's statue has been relocated to either the Useless Objects Facility or somewhere nearby?
I mean, the Dewitchery Diamond is in the facility, so they're not all completely useless.

...Did I ask this already? I mean, I can't remember if I did or not.

Having him nearby and under watch means that you've got a convenient immediate alert that someone has used the Diamond and that there might be a monster that needs destroying.

Of course, Abraham fits a lot of the same criteria that Sirleck is looking for in a new host...

[halfeye]

...What if Abraham's statue has been relocated to either the Useless Objects Facility or somewhere nearby?
I mean, the Dewitchery Diamond is in the facility, so they're not all completely useless.

...Did I ask this already? I mean, I can't remember if I did or not.

Having him nearby and under watch means that you've got a convenient immediate alert that someone has used the Diamond and that there might be a monster that needs destroying.

What would happen if Abraham touched the diamond?

[Qwertystop]

What would happen if Abraham touched the diamond?

Nothing, unless he was enchanted at the time. Perhaps touching his statue to it would unstone him and leave a statue copy there (that would immediately stop being a statue because the diamond was used)?

[Calemyr]

Oh, wow. This is going to be interesting. Magus, Sirleck, Elliot, Ellen, and Ashley all standing in a building filled to the brim with inert magical artifacts right when magic opens for business and said artifacts cease being inert. Lighting a match in a fireworks factory would be significantly safer, I imagine.

Gotta wonder about how the Dunkel twins will handle this after the fact. Elliot probably will shrug it off, despite being weirded out by having yet another "child" due to the diamond. Ellen, on the other hand... the girl already has serious identity issues and being attacked by an abomination has already been shown to be traumatic. Magus, at least, sees his host as a person and not a vehicle. I doubt Ellen's experience will be nearly so pleasant. Depending on Dan's mood her reaction oculd range from being angry at being manipulated to genuinely responding to this as an assault on a primal level.

[Lizard Lord]

Nothing, unless he was enchanted at the time. Perhaps touching his statue to it would unstone him and leave a statue copy there (that would immediately stop being a statue because the diamond was used)?

I don't think the statue would stop being a statue. The end conditions of a curse don't apply to clones created by the dewitchery diamond. Werewolves created by it are werewolves even in daylight and Ellen didn't cease to exist when FV5 was supposed to end. The statue might, however, turn others into statues just like how Ellen can zap people with FV5 even before she started getting different magic spells.

[JeenLeen]

Of course, Abraham fits a lot of the same criteria that Sirleck is looking for in a new host...

He is now known to the government as a wizard, so taking him as a host wouldn't work well since his face would probably be on a Most Wanted list pretty soon. (Assuming Magus or someone else rats out Sirleck, that is, or they just want to hunt down Abraham.)

Also, I wonder if it'd be hard for Sirleck to not turn into a statue if he possessed Abraham. I'm guessing Abraham had to cast a spell to make himself stone again, and can do so at the time of his choosing, but it's not clear.

It just occurred to me how particularly specific that 'turn to stone, with return to flesh keyed to the diamond use' is as a spell. I guess it makes sense that he would get that spell as a natural extension of his inner desire, but... well, it seemed easier to understand as a spell when we knew less of the magic system and I could just assume he researched such a spell.

[Rater202]

Pandora saying that Tedd invented a new way to Customize spells for wands implies that there are ways to customize spells. The relaive rarity of Seers that know about magic and the fact that mostwands are made by Wizards using Seer provided tools indicates that Wizards might have limited abillity to research how spels work and alter them.

Alternatively, it's a "Hibernate in stone and awaken when thing" happens spell and Abraham just sets the spell to be undone when the Diamond is used manually rather than it being automatic.

[Douglas]

I don't think Tedd invented a way to customize spells, exactly, but rather a way to take a spell that already has built-in parameters and precisely specify the parameters. For example, take a spell of "grow by some amount" where the amount is normally controlled by visualizing what you want and make it "grow by 2 inches".

I would expect that spells that have some kind of built-in parameter, or multiple parameters, are very common. Probably nearly every spell has at least one parameter - even something as straightforward as a Fireball spell lets the caster decide where the ball of fire should appear. I think Abraham's Stone Hibernation spell most likely can be set to awaken him for any arbitrary condition he wants, just as long as the magic is capable of detecting it. Given that, it could easily be a spell that someone else had that Abraham searched for so he could learn it.

[Rater202]

I don't think Tedd invented a way to customize spells

"You did invent a way of more easily customize spells for wands," says the nigh-omniscient immortal.

[Douglas]

"You did invent a way of more easily customize spells for wands," says the nigh-omniscient immortal.

Yes, but there are shadings of ambiguity to the definition of the word. My impression is that you're interpreting it to mean "take a spell and modify it so it does something it couldn't have done before". I'm interpreting it to mean "very precisely choose the exact values of all adjustable parameters within the spell's existing abilities".

Both interpretations fit the word, but... hmm, on second thought your interpretation might be right. Tedd's comment about making wands that change default form here seems to imply that he can at least mix and match some aspects of spells he's learned, at a minimum to make wands that change default form in ways other than a sex change. This still doesn't necessarily imply anything about the abilities of wizards in general, rather than seers specifically.

Regardless, I'm still guessing that Abraham's spell has flexibility in the trigger condition built into it. It just makes more sense to me that way.

[JeenLeen]

In the very next comic (http://www.egscomics.com/index.php?id=2369), Pandora states that Tedd can "improve" a spell he has learned. That lends towards a view that he can augment the spell, potentially beyond its original ability.

[Drascin]

Sirleck, listen to your wizard. Listening to your wizard is a very important survival trait when dungeoneering (a shady government facility full of magical artifacts absolutely counts as a dungeon).

[Gez]

Ellen-Sirleck's face in the next to last panel definitely does not look like the face of someone who's getting ready to enact a sudden but inevitable betrayal.

[Ibrinar]

That is just how he expresse happiness about the coming success!

[Vinyadan]

Dun DUNN DUNNNNNN!!!

[Lamech]

Ellen-Sirleck's face in the next to last panel definitely does not look like the face of someone who's getting ready to enact a sudden but inevitable betrayal.

Its it really a betrayal if the guy your betraying plans on killing you the first chance he gets? Magus is established to hate Abominations. He's pretty clearly planning on letting Eliot get to safety and them exorcising Sirleck.

[Vinyadan]

That is just how he expresse happiness about the coming success!

[Vinyadan]

Hey, look: another future psychic!

http://www.egscomics.com/index.php?id=1967

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...-straight.html

[Forum Explorer]

Hey, look: another future psychic!

http://www.egscomics.com/index.php?id=1967

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...-straight.html

Wow, that's a really bad study. I mean namely arousal != attraction. It can, but it just as easily might not. Case in point, some people are aroused by diamond, that doesn't mean they want to have sex with diamonds.


Anyways, is anyone else disappointed with these last few comics? I have to admit I was hoping that Sirlock would successfully possess Magus. Yeah, maybe the heroes would eventually track him down and free him, but this just feels cheap.

[TaRix]

Anyways, is anyone else disappointed with these last few comics? I have to admit I was hoping that Sirlock would successfully possess Magus. Yeah, maybe the heroes would eventually track him down and free him, but this just feels cheap.

I am just a little bit confused as to the timing of everything. Something's supposed to be going wrong, and to justify the magic-change break, it apparently needs to involve a previously inert something or somethings.

But how to make this happen with the only bad guy on the scene paralyzed?

Well, let's break out a tinfoil hat!

Spoiler: No, really! It's out in left field!

Show

Voltaire shows up in the warehouse, 'empowers' Sirleck to, you know, move. Sirleck manages to possess someone maybe Magus, maybe Ashley. Voltaire tastes something (with his ears) freshly eeeeeeevil in a nearby crate and 'guides' Sirleck to help himself. Rampage ensues. Sirleck gets power, comic gets conflict, Voltaire gets to point out how he was fully within immortal rules and forces da rules to be rewritten.

And maybe a griffin shows up.

[Calemyr]

I am just a little bit confused as to the timing of everything. Something's supposed to be going wrong, and to justify the magic-change break, it apparently needs to involve a previously inert something or somethings.

But how to make this happen with the only bad guy on the scene paralyzed?

It's pretty simple. The magic-change break has already occurred. Pandora went nuclear on the aberrations while they were heading to the facility (though we heard about the "dodged a bullet" and "lights in the sky" as offhand conversation before we flashed back to the mall where it went down) and that was the trigger for the reboot discussion. It's already done and dusted by the time they pull up to facility.

Of course, it comes with major consequences: a whole slew of old relics that relied on old magic rules to work (and thus dismissed as inert) are now suddenly active again, and Magus & Co. are standing in a facility filled to the brim with "inert" old relics that are now fully active. They are standing in a building of metaphorical grenades with their pins pulled and their fuses sizzling. An old crafty vamp like Sirleck can certainly take advantage of the chaos that is on its way. Also worth noting is Ashley's worrying observations that the lights are all on (when they shouldn't be in a mousetrap like this) and there are no cars in the lot (the guard's car should be there). There's something else happening that we don't have enough info on yet, and that shoe is about to drop as well.

Personally, I have to say I expected this bit, though. Dan has a good deal of empathy, I think, and having Ellen robbed of her agency like this was never going to sit well with him. So she's given that agency by having her bide her time before utilizing the freedom nobody thinks she has. There are clues that Ellen is more active than we're led to believe: Sirleck swerving to avoid a raccoon for one, as well as Ellen's body getting worked up when her true origins are spelled out in front of her.

[Gez]

And so Magus was not as dumb and naive as he let Sirleck think, and he had his own sudden but inevitable betrayal planned for this moment.

Still if Sirleck hadn't possessed Ellen, Sirleck would have had time to act on his own heavily choreographed SBIB before Magus recovered. Was Sirleck possessing Ellen part of Magus' plan? Did he predict it'd give him the time to act? Did he somehow warn her beforehand?

[John Cribati]

Maybe he figured he'd be able to shake Sirleck off himself, given that his new body would be born from magic and stuff.

[Mith]

I wish Dan wouldn't spoil things in the comments. At least as written, it sounds like Sirleck is trivially taken care of.

[Calemyr]

I wish Dan wouldn't spoil things in the comments. At least as written, it sounds like Sirleck is trivially taken care of.

Yup. Cause he never lies in his commentary.

On the other hand, I did love the Star Wars reference he added in the commentary.

[Vinyadan]

I have stopped reading Dan's commentaries, but that's because I feel that it makes the comic too slow. I mean, that's often a lot of comment for a single page. And it generally doesn't contain much important material, with a few exceptions (like when he explained why he initially represented people reacting badly to Tedd's transformation thing.)

About the current scenes, the idea of the guys having to go after Magus to save him from Sirleck is interesting, but, right now, I'm OK with seeing fifteen years of story and retcons coming to what appears to be a neatly knit ending. Since Pandora is gone, Magus has a body, magic has changed, the dam is gone, Diane's story has been revealed, and all information which the public had now is also known to the characters, this could be the end of "Season 2".

Plots still incomplete: Luke's cabal/gang, Justin's date, Sarah's date, Noah*, Voltaire. Plots just introduced: revived magical items, Tedd's new job. The eternal plot: Lord Tedd.

Spoiler: Noah

Show

I guess that he's a greater chimera? He transforms, he has tendrils on the back of his head, he has the same aura as Grace, at least according to Luke, and, for some reason, his relationship with Melissa, with the Justin baggage, seems asexual to me.

[Mith]

Yup. Cause he never lies in his commentary.

On the other hand, I did love the Star Wars reference he added in the commentary.

I am not saying I expected Sirleck to live. However, saying "In case there is any doubt...R.I.P Sirleck." right as things start to get interesting seems like things wrap up too quickly to me. I see reasons for it, but it doesn't seem to be particularly great pay off for this plot thread.

[Vinyadan]

Right, he did something similar back in the day saying explicitly that Noah was the masked avenger, which, even if you had missed the hints, would have become clear by reading later comics. It ruins the flow, and feels unceremonious and anticlimactic. But I think it's because it's a DVD-style commentary, which means that it follows the example of commentaries that you are not supposed to listen to during the first view (although some do watch movies with the commentary on even on the first view, which I find very odd, since it will spoil the movie or distract you from it).

[Fyraltari]

Was Sirleck possessing Ellen part of Magus' plan? Did he predict it'd give him the time to act? Did he somehow warn her beforehand?

Sirleck possessing Ellen was very much part of Magus' plan. He needed him to use her to zap Elliot for him. He can't have communicated with her beforehand because the only reason he tolerates Sirleck is that Sirleck is the only person in the world that can see him (and has a reason to help). If Ellen could hear him he would just explain everything and the Dunkels would have helped of their won accord.

He probably knew that Ellen would be able to help since he knows more about magic than pretty much anyone who isn't Raven or an immortal. I suspect he will explain his plan soon.

[Rater202]

Since Pandora is gone

No, she's not.

Magic explicitly stated that she survived her refresh and will return more or less unchanged.

Even if she hadn't, or even if she didn't have Tedd, Raven, Susan, Diane, and Probably Noah to look after, she swore a Vow to help Sarah awaken and as seen by Zeus even after a reset she can't ignore that.

She'll be back(Insert Image of Little Girl Pandora dressed like the Terminator here)