El Goonish ShIVe: Damn It, Dan, Stop Teasing Us!

[Gnoman]

I honestly can't see this dragging out for too long. Rhoda's reaction is entirely understandable, but she's also been consistently portrayed as being calm and reasonable. This means that, after her initial rush of anger, she's likely to calm down enough for explanations like "this was your secret, we weren't going to open it up for you" to be effective. This would also be consistent with Dan's love of "effective communication subverts pointless drama" that he's shown in more recent storylines and commentary.

[Mith]

On one hand, if this doesn't get neatly wrapped up, that's a good thing in my opinion.

On the other hand, forcing someone to out themselves by asking them if they are gay feels kind of terrible to me, so I could see waiting for the other person to come to you with their secret.

[Gnoman]

On one hand, if this doesn't get neatly wrapped up, that's a good thing in my opinion.

On the other hand, forcing someone to out themselves by asking them if they are gay feels kind of terrible to me, so I could see waiting for the other person to come to you with their secret.

Exactly - especially given the whole Nanase/Ellen thing from earlier in the comic - where everyone except Nanase knew, but recognized that she needed to work it out herself and with Ellen first. Rhoda's reaction is perfectly understandable, but Diane and Lucy's actions that set it off is also perfectly reasonable for reasons already explicitly acknowledged in-comic, and Rhoda's been shown as the type of person that would understand that after calming down a bit.


Of course, telling her that they already knew about her big reveal was a bit gauche, but they had just had a Moment and probably weren't thinking all that clearly.

[JeenLeen]

I doubt it would happen, but an infuriated magical attack (well, inconvenient transformation) by Rhoda would be cool in that it would 1) let Diane and Lucy know Rhoda is a magic-user and 2) possibly provide some even that will tie into the larger plot, e.g., immortals respond, Raven responds, or story about a high schooler openly using magic gets attention by those looking around town for evidence of magic*

*it seems that, beyond some lampshading, Nanase floating around school in the earlier comics has been mostly forgotten

[Ronnoc]

Hey, look, turns out the story has actual conflict after all. Who'd have thunk?/sarcasm

Possibly, but given how interpersonal issues tend to go in this comic I'm going to guess it'll be smoothed over in ~1 week.

Also I've had a been on a both sides of the "Shocking revelation", "yeah we totally knew" sequence on several occasions throughout my life and the reaction has always been either relief or happiness not anger.

[Celestia]

So, it seems we've got quite a few dates to see now. That should be interesting. And with the speed at which they're being resolved, the next three years of this comic will be nothing but dates.

[John Cribati]

Prediction: all the dates serendipitously happen at the same time in the same restaurant.

[Vinyadan]

I can't help but have the impression that Dan already did this whole thing, and better, and better embedded in the story, with Nanase and Ellen. There even is the part where everyone knew Nanase was gay, but didn't talk about it.

[Celestia]

Prediction: all the dates serendipitously happen at the same time in the same restaurant.

I don't think the Luciane date can happen at the same time as the Luciane/Rhodalina double date.

Also, I'm pretty sure that the other two actually already happened, chronologically speaking.

I can't help but have the impression that Dan already did this whole thing, and better, and better embedded in the story, with Nanase and Ellen. There even is the part where everyone knew Nanase was gay, but didn't talk about it.

Yeah, I think the Nanase reveal was better, but I'm not going to complain about more lesbians. Especially not ones as hot as Lucy.

[Forum Explorer]

Hey, look, turns out the story has actual conflict after all. Who'd have thunk?/sarcasm

Yeah. Truly being forced on a double date is the highest of stakes /sarcasm

[Lissou]

More differentiation between Diane and Susan is nice. Diane so far strikes me as a "mostly straight but with exceptions", time will tell if I'm right about that one, though. I mean Nanase shows precedent of a lesbian dating many guys because realising she's gay, but... I feel this is different?

[Rater202]

Yeah. Truly being forced on a double date is the highest of stakes /sarcasm

Yeah.,

If it goes poorly, it might ruin Diane's friendship with Rhoda as Rhoda is clearly upset about everything.

And if someone makes Rhoda cry, they have to deal with Grace(See Grace's reaction to finding out about the dumb thing Cat did to dissuade rumors about Eliot being gay.)

[JeenLeen]

I hope we don't see the Lucy/Diane date or the double date. While it'd be entertaining, I think it'd be better to focus on the main characters. Unless the plot is shifting to include Diane and Rhoda more as main characters (which I could see, between new info on Diane and Rhoda's power.)

My guess is that we'll hear about their dates, but it won't actually coincide with the others.
Also, with where we are on the timeline, didn't most of the dates happen already? SusanSarah/Sam is in the past, I'm pretty sure, but not sure about Justin's.

[Gnoman]

Rhoda is aware that Lucy had some idea of her orientation, realizes that Lucy had an issue with it, and is still completely clueless as to why there was an issue in the first place.


A nice touch, honestly.

[Fyraltari]

My guess is that we'll hear about their dates, but it won't actually coincide with the others.
Also, with where we are on the timeline, didn't most of the dates happen already? Susan/Sam is in the past, I'm pretty sure, but not sure about Justin's.

I think this is the beginning of the week when Sarah and Sam have a date on friday. I don't think
Susan is dating anyone.

[Gnoman]

That is a brilliant way to take an apology, especially for something as nasty as what Diane is apologizing for.

[Fyraltari]

Well, it's about time.

[Professor Gnoll]

...It's been four years since the card tournament?

.........we still haven't reached next Friday since it?

[John Cribati]

You ever read Goblins? Been going on for 10 years and I doubt three weeks have passed in-comic.

[Anonymouswizard]

...It's been four years since the card tournament?

.........we still haven't reached next Friday since it?

The Friday after the tournament? Yeah we reached it, that was when ALL THE THINGS happened so we missed out on Sarah and Sam's notadate.

It's the Friday after that Friday we haven't quite reached.

Anyway, some thoughts as to how this storyline will finish:
-Sarah will find out from Grace somehow.
-Sarah will be conflicted for a bit.
-Next time she meets up with Sam she'll decide that the fact he presents as a man is more important than what bits he has.

In addition there will be something completely unrealistic, like Sarah convincing the entirity of Moperville North to date trans people.

EDIT: AND WHEN WILL WE SEE MORE JUSTIN AND LUKE!? It's been four years, I need my adorbs.

[Lamech]

In addition there will be something completely unrealistic, like Sarah convincing the entirity of Moperville North to date trans people.

Alternatively Sarah will introduce Sam to Ted and visa versa. Sam seemed like he wanted to grow facial hair IIRC. Ted can help with that.

I suspect there will an incredibly awkward moment if Sam tells Sarah. Probably other awkward moments.

[Fyraltari]

What I am curious about is wether Sarah will tell Sam that she has (via Tedd) the means to change his anatomical sex and how he will respond to that.

I suspect there will an incredibly awkward moment if Sam tells Sarah. Probably other awkward moments.

This is El Goonish Shive, I don't think these people can do the groceries without being awkward.

[Rater202]

In addition there will be something completely unrealistic, like Sarah convincing the entirity of Moperville North to date trans people.

Dan said this wasn't gonna be preachy.

and again, Diane managing to convince one person to blurt out a response that triggered a chain reaction that killed the rumors dead isn't that unrealistic.

[Mith]

I suspect there will an incredibly awkward moment if Sam tells Sarah. Probably other awkward moments.

This is El Goonish Shive, I don't think these people can do the groceries without being awkward.

Isn't the tagline for the comic "One big awkward moment?"

[Anonymouswizard]

Isn't the tagline for the comic "One big awkward moment?"

I think that doesn't quite do it justice, while the awkward moment hasn't stopped yet it does vary in intensity depending on the storyline.

[Douglas]

-Sarah will be conflicted for a bit.
-Next time she meets up with Sam she'll decide that the fact he presents as a man is more important than what bits he has.

Why would she be conflicted about it? She has access to magic and technology that can change what bits he has, so it really doesn't matter. If their relationship develops to a point where it's relevant, she'd introduce him to Tedd and one or another means of convenient painless and reversible sex changing.

The only potential problem there is concerns about secrecy of magic, etc., and that's on its way out now. I'm speculatively imagining that Tedd could ask DGB for official permission to reveal magic to Sam, presenting the idea as recruiting a subject for a case study in trying to boost an average person's magic resistance to a meaningful level.

[Lamech]

She could be conflicted about if she can tell Tedd about Sam, Sam about Tedd, how much she needs to worry about magic secrecy etc. Until it turns into a shaggy dog because magic gets revealed and they she can just get a magic wand from Tedd.

[Anonymouswizard]

Why would she be conflicted about it? She has access to magic and technology that can change what bits he has, so it really doesn't matter. If their relationship develops to a point where it's relevant, she'd introduce him to Tedd and one or another means of convenient painless and reversible sex changing.

Depending on how Shive plays it I see it as either going 'I don't think I'm that bi' or, more likely, 'should I reveal what Tedd can do to somebody I barely know'.

The only potential problem there is concerns about secrecy of magic, etc., and that's on its way out now. I'm speculatively imagining that Tedd could ask DGB for official permission to reveal magic to Sam, presenting the idea as recruiting a subject for a case study in trying to boost an average person's magic resistance to a meaningful level.

Oh sure, but we still have to work from Sarah's viewpoint, which includes 'does she want to reveal what Tedd can do to Sam'. Bare in mind that there's at least the possibility that Sam will try to push Tedd making permanent gender reassignment wands fairly easy to get, which Tedd has been shown to dislike the implications of (because of the entire 'changing people's gender without their consent' deal, he'd likely be all for making a nonpermenant short-duration version into a commercial product). Bare in mind that Tedd is as far as we know the only person with any idea as to how to make this stuff permenant (due to his specific situation of being a Seer who used their magic-vision on a spell that can change his 'base' form), is highly unlikely to be able to solve the problem for everybody while looking into magic, and so on and so forth. If Sam is willing to shut up about it until Tedd can work out a way to give the option to everybody without major problems than it's amazing, if not it causes a lot of problems. Sam is actually placed to be a great test subject, but there's still potential problems with Sarah revealing the existence of the world's leading magic theorist and expert on transformations to somebody she met two weeks ago.

[Douglas]

Depending on how Shive plays it I see it as either going 'I don't think I'm that bi' or, more likely, 'should I reveal what Tedd can do to somebody I barely know'.

Or, 'if this relationship goes far enough for it to matter, I can ask Tedd then'. It may not be a first date secret, but if she keeps dating him then eventually he will be someone she knows quite well, and she can afford to wait. It's not like the activity it would matter for is something she'd expect to be doing before then anyway.

[Anonymouswizard]

Or, 'if this relationship goes far enough for it to matter, I can ask Tedd then'. It may not be a first date secret, but if she keeps dating him then eventually he will be someone she knows quite well, and she can afford to wait. It's not like the activity it would matter for is something she'd expect to be doing before then anyway.

It matters because once Sarah knows she'll have to balance Sam's happiness with Tedd's, and while Tedd will almost certainly be willing to help in this case, being forced to help in every case will cause him problems.

Of course, now that Tedd knows that being trans is a thing she's almost certainly trying to think up a way to ethically package out permenant sex reassignments without the abuse potential. But the question is really one of Sam's character, once he knows that Tedd is (at least theoretically) able to transform him will he be able to keep quiet enough when he knows that other people are going through the same thing.

Now personally I'm cisgendered and only known a couple of 'out' trans people (although my old uni chaplain keeps saying I should meet one who's recently started at the uni), so I really aren't thinking about this from the trans/genderfluid point of view.