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  1. - Top - End - #121
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShIVe: Damn It, Dan, Stop Teasing Us!

    So, who thinks Raven's going to survive the night? I'd hedge and say a little better than even probability, much less if Tedd finds out about Raven's relationship with his parents.

    Side bet: When will tomorrow arrive? I'd say...August 2018. Optimistically.

  2. - Top - End - #122
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShIVe: Damn It, Dan, Stop Teasing Us!

    Raven's going to make it for the sole reason that Pandora will be ****ing pissed if he doesn't.

    Still, I want this to be the arc where everybody who knows how to fight gets too. I want the main eight to all fight together for once.
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShIVe: Damn It, Dan, Stop Teasing Us!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Raven's going to make it for the sole reason that Pandora will be ****ing pissed if he doesn't.

    Still, I want this to be the arc where everybody who knows how to fight gets too. I want the main eight to all fight together for once.
    Im expecting smaller fights to break out as the night happens, everyone (including side characters) meet up and fight a swarm of baddies, then they split up again, only for the main 8 to fight the final boss of the night (with one day that's just a really badass picture of all 8 of them)

    August next year seems like a pretty generous estimate I think.
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  4. - Top - End - #124
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShIVe: Damn It, Dan, Stop Teasing Us!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Extinguisher View Post
    Im expecting smaller fights to break out as the night happens, everyone (including side characters) meet up and fight a swarm of baddies, then they split up again, only for the main 8 to fight the final boss of the night (with one day that's just a really badass picture of all 8 of them)

    August next year seems like a pretty generous estimate I think.
    The question is, however, since I'm pretty sure that either magic isn't going to change or it's going to change in ways that let the main characters and their imediate supporting cast keep their spells(since why would Dan go out of his way to show off all of Ellen's spells or clarify that the spells that Rhoda can do in Goonmaji are canon if they'd be gone?)

    ...We've already got Cheerledra and Shade Tail. Would the other six also get Super-Hero names?
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  5. - Top - End - #125
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShIVe: Damn It, Dan, Stop Teasing Us!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    The question is, however, since I'm pretty sure that either magic isn't going to change or it's going to change in ways that let the main characters and their imediate supporting cast keep their spells(since why would Dan go out of his way to show off all of Ellen's spells or clarify that the spells that Rhoda can do in Goonmaji are canon if they'd be gone?)

    ...We've already got Cheerledra and Shade Tail. Would the other six also get Super-Hero names?
    That doesn't mean changes won't be drastic. They might be being showed off to illustrate the magnitude of the difference (between the current and new systems), for example. Or the main change might be in how more spells are gained.

    More hero names are unlikely, unless they take an unusual effort to disguise themselves.
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  6. - Top - End - #126
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShIVe: Damn It, Dan, Stop Teasing Us!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    ...We've already got Cheerledra and Shade Tail. Would the other six also get Super-Hero names?
    We also have Charlie's Charlotte's Angels, so that leaves only 4 more to go.

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    Default Re: El Goonish ShIVe: Damn It, Dan, Stop Teasing Us!

    Quote Originally Posted by Qwertystop View Post
    That doesn't mean changes won't be drastic. They might be being showed off to illustrate the magnitude of the difference (between the current and new systems), for example. Or the main change might be in how more spells are gained.
    Im just saying, Dan went to a lot of effort to show off what the cast can do, and it's not like him to throw things away like that.

    Also, he doesn't like hurting his characters and most of them would be upset by losing their powers.

    I'm honestly expecting that Tedd will force magic not to change by making it publicaly known that he/any identity he uses to protect himself is a Seer and that he'll keep bringing magic back as long as it takes.

    As for names... How many differant ways are there, right now, to alter someone's form? Combined with the Uryuom work-suits and communicator watches that got used once? and Nanase's angel form?
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  8. - Top - End - #128
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShIVe: Damn It, Dan, Stop Teasing Us!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    The question is, however, since I'm pretty sure that either magic isn't going to change or it's going to change in ways that let the main characters and their imediate supporting cast keep their spells(since why would Dan go out of his way to show off all of Ellen's spells or clarify that the spells that Rhoda can do in Goonmaji are canon if they'd be gone?)

    ...We've already got Cheerledra and Shade Tail. Would the other six also get Super-Hero names?
    I don't know. What's the point of changing magic if it doesn't have any impact? If magic changed and nobody had any established magic, there wouldn't be any meaning to pointing out that it changed. Now, however, it would have impact. You have characters like Ellen who are born of magic, characters like Elliot who are psychologically dependent on magic, and characters like Susan and Nanase where magic has been a long-established part of their lives. Changing magic now would pull the rug under everyone. But Tedd's there, so Moperville would pick magic up again fast and effectively become a major focal point of magic in a way that hasn't existed in centuries. I don't know who around her has played Final Fantasy 3 (for the SNES, it's Final Fantasy 6 everywhere else), but, well... some of the game's best storytelling happens after the heroes fail to save the day.

    I'll be honest, I kinda hope it does reset. As interesting as it may be, I don't really like the effect it's been having on Elliot, who is pretty much addicted to mind altering magic as a means of escaping himself. Watching him go through withdrawal and have to face his issues would be good, I think. He's done it before, such as with his relationships with Sarah and Susan, but this would be a much larger obstacle for him to overcome and lead to much more growth as a person.
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  9. - Top - End - #129
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShIVe: Damn It, Dan, Stop Teasing Us!

    I sure do hope everyone will get out of this alive. I can accept it if there will be casualties - this is not my story to tell, but only to hang on for the ride, and there a lot of reasons i could think of that *might* make it a good story. But i do agree that Dan is not in the habit of having characters killed, and he also knows how many feelings a person can invest into a well-developed fictional character.

    That said, even thinking about "losing" a specific character like that hit me pretty hard. I am quite glad that it is not an established business model to create a story, making people fall for it and than demanding money for keeping the characters alive.

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    Default Re: El Goonish ShIVe: Damn It, Dan, Stop Teasing Us!

    Quote Originally Posted by Calemyr View Post
    I don't know. What's the point of changing magic if it doesn't have any impact? If magic changed and nobody had any established magic, there wouldn't be any meaning to pointing out that it changed. Now, however, it would have impact. You have characters like Ellen who are born of magic, characters like Elliot who are psychologically dependent on magic, and characters like Susan and Nanase where magic has been a long-established part of their lives. Changing magic now would pull the rug under everyone. But Tedd's there, so Moperville would pick magic up again fast and effectively become a major focal point of magic in a way that hasn't existed in centuries. I don't know who around her has played Final Fantasy 3 (for the SNES, it's Final Fantasy 6 everywhere else), but, well... some of the game's best storytelling happens after the heroes fail to save the day.

    I'll be honest, I kinda hope it does reset. As interesting as it may be, I don't really like the effect it's been having on Elliot, who is pretty much addicted to mind altering magic as a means of escaping himself. Watching him go through withdrawal and have to face his issues would be good, I think. He's done it before, such as with his relationships with Sarah and Susan, but this would be a much larger obstacle for him to overcome and lead to much more growth as a person.
    1: the bold, coupled with the details that Dan has revealed, is more evidence to magic not changing than it is to it changing at all.

    2:you need to read the commentaries. Elliot isn't addicted to mind altering magic to escape himself, per Dan's own comments Elliot's gender identity is "non-commital grunt."(elliot being based in part on Dan himself)

    He's not like Tedd, but elliot honestly doesn't give a damn once he got over the shock and now the gender changing stuff is a cool power.

    I repeat, Dan is not the kind of person who would go to the effort of having Elliot get a new spell, showing off all of ellen's spells and how they work, establishing which minor characters are magical prodigies, and showing off what spells they can do in canon just to throw all of that work away. Especially since it would hurt a lot of his characters and he doesn't like doing that.

    Magic most likely will not change.
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  11. - Top - End - #131
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShIVe: Damn It, Dan, Stop Teasing Us!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Magic most likely will not change.
    Unless, of course, there is a storyline in which e.g. Ted slowly figures out how to restore said cool powers under the new rules to each of those characters.

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  12. - Top - End - #132
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShIVe: Damn It, Dan, Stop Teasing Us!

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Unless, of course, there is a storyline in which e.g. Ted slowly figures out how to restore said cool powers under the new rules to each of those characters.
    You know as well as I do that Dan would never get that storyline done. We've still got no idea what the za is up with Lord Tedd.

    Unless of course the secret hidden purpose of Seer's involves one of them deciding how Magic Works and Tedd wanting to restore his friends powers bad enough that he forces magic to work more or less the way it did but harder for bad people to get, in which case such a storyline would take a few months tops because of how ridiculously easy it would be.
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  13. - Top - End - #133
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShIVe: Damn It, Dan, Stop Teasing Us!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    You know as well as I do that Dan would never get that storyline done. We've still got no idea what the za is up with Lord Tedd.

    Unless of course the secret hidden purpose of Seer's involves one of them deciding how Magic Works and Tedd wanting to restore his friends powers bad enough that he forces magic to work more or less the way it did but harder for bad people to get, in which case such a storyline would take a few months tops because of how ridiculously easy it would be.
    Dunno. That could be quite interesting - if Tedd has a vote but no guarantee, or if it's a give-and-take process, there could be some neat stories coming from whatever else comes along with "harder for bad people to get".

    For example, the definition of "bad." I don't think EGS is going to go there, that's a bit deeper than it's gone and not really in-theme with how morality has been handled to this point, but it could be interesting in theory.
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShIVe: Damn It, Dan, Stop Teasing Us!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    2:you need to read the commentaries. Elliot isn't addicted to mind altering magic to escape himself, per Dan's own comments Elliot's gender identity is "non-commital grunt."(elliot being based in part on Dan himself)

    He's not like Tedd, but elliot honestly doesn't give a damn once he got over the shock and now the gender changing stuff is a cool power.

    I repeat, Dan is not the kind of person who would go to the effort of having Elliot get a new spell, showing off all of ellen's spells and how they work, establishing which minor characters are magical prodigies, and showing off what spells they can do in canon just to throw all of that work away. Especially since it would hurt a lot of his characters and he doesn't like doing that.

    Magic most likely will not change.
    The addiction I'm talking about is not about "going female", it's about "going Heidi". He likes being Heidi, because she's everything he doesn't think he can be: funny, friendly, outgoing, open, and happy. His friends have warned him a couple of times now about how that transformation in particular (the alter egos) is the real mind-warping deal, not just screwing with a little biochemical grease to ease a physical transformation. He still does it, though, with the unease of someone sneaking drugs in their backpack. Because he wants a "vacation from myself". That's where I think his character growth can come from.

    As for magic changing... well... who knows. Dan has done some fairly drastic things before. He broke up Elliot and Sarah because he felt he solidified that relationship too quickly and that it didn't have a chance to develop naturally, so clean the board and start anew. See, from a narrative standpoint, I think "saving magic" would be a good story, but a bit cliche. Heroes make it in time, heroes save the day, status quo is preserved. A failure, on the other hand, would be a much more interesting story. The heroes lose everything they had, struggle to deal with their loss and their failure, but the seeds are sewn for a new iteration of magic that will be better than the last. It also would likely result in a dead space in the narrative that would allow Dan to skip forward to the college age he's stated he originally wanted the story to be set in. An age where alcohol (among other things) could be included that are not considered acceptable for minors.

    Most importantly, however, is Tedd's Seer status. We know he's a wand maker now, that's great, but there's a second function a Seer serves, and it's important that the Seer be intelligent, sane, and morally good. My bet is that they play a role in the form magic takes in the next iteration, as long as they aren't doing it consciously. This means that the next iteration of magic will be (as long as Tedd is unaware of it) a Tedd-style school. That means naturally high resistances in people so that unwelcomed magic is less effective and an even heavier focus on transformational types of magic than before.

    So we've got the tool to change magic, the setup to make that change carry weight, the tool to restart magic in a new (and more Shive-ly) manner, all geared up and ready to roll. Sure, they might save the day, but a soft reboot that lets the setting reflect his current sensibilities rather than his high school fancies might not be out of the question either. A good storyteller could make either path work, is all I'm really saying, and I hold that Dan Shive is a good storyteller. He'll do whatever he feels he can get the best results from.

    Edit: My theory about the Seer is basically that the phrase is somewhat literal, with a variation on the ol' Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. The principle suggests that an observer influences events simply by observing them. Apply it to magic, give a wizard the ability to "see" magic in its embryonic state, and let the wizard alter how it develops simply by observing it. It begins to reflect the "Seer". A good Seer would create something comforting and exciting, while an evil Seer would create something horrifying and cruel. But Magic will not allow itself to be controlled, so any awareness on the part of the Seer of this transaction invalidates it: you can't force magic to be good, but magic can follow your example. This would inherently mean that magic's life cycle would rejuvenate itself compatible with a contemporary mindset each time it resets. It currently is arcane and obtuse, reflecting a dark age of castles and kings. What would it become if modern minds molded it? Phone apps?
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  15. - Top - End - #135
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShIVe: Damn It, Dan, Stop Teasing Us!

    there is a significant difference between a relationship running it's course and being terminated and getting rid of 90 of the cool stuff from the comic's almost 20 year run.
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShIVe: Damn It, Dan, Stop Teasing Us!

    Quote Originally Posted by Calemyr View Post
    It currently is arcane and obtuse, reflecting a dark age of castles and kings. What would it become if modern minds molded it? Phone apps?
    Information technology inspired magic? That could be good and bad, but it ought to be interesting. Are we sure that it's currently from an age of castles and kings? Pandora's quote sounded earlier than that to me. I personally think she hasn't reset in several thousand years, and the last reset of magic was before hers.
    The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.

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    Default Re: El Goonish ShIVe: Damn It, Dan, Stop Teasing Us!

    Quote Originally Posted by halfeye View Post
    Information technology inspired magic? That could be good and bad, but it ought to be interesting. Are we sure that it's currently from an age of castles and kings? Pandora's quote sounded earlier than that to me. I personally think she hasn't reset in several thousand years, and the last reset of magic was before hers.
    Hmm... I could have sworn her retelling that story included a shot of a castle, but now I can't find one. Dragons, though, so there's that. I don't know if the image is from elsewhere in the comic or if it's just what I envisioned when reading her recitation of the event. My bad.

    I guess my reasoning is:
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    Still, let's see... In her conversation with the Emissary, she says that her memory of the last reset was from her previous incarnation, which the Emissary took to mean that it happened during her previous incarnation. Pandora is pretty cagey when it comes to her age, unfortunately, so everything is guesswork after that. Her age is consistently measured in centuries, as is the Dewitchery Diamond, which was tied to Blaike's death (the Unwaking Beast would have been the "Ellen" half of a dewitched werewolf, as she clearly labels Abraham as the man responsible for it). She says she's been claiming to be 299 for a few centuries at this point, she's at least 600, which would put her rebirth around 1400 or earlier, though I doubt it'd be much earlier than 1200 (more than that and her statement would be misleading - she doesn't want to directly answer Sarah's question but also clearly doesn't want to lie to her, either). Since she has her previous incarnation's memories intact, her previous incarnation was able to reset properly, so probably pulled the standard 200 year "lifespan". That would mean that magic would have reset sometime between 1000 and 1400 AD, depending on how precise she was when she said "a few centuries". That's more or less the later half of the middle ages and the start of the Renaissance, which would be "castles and kings".

    Take from that strained logic what you will.
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShIVe: Damn It, Dan, Stop Teasing Us!

    Quote Originally Posted by Calemyr View Post
    Hmm... I could have sworn her retelling that story included a shot of a castle, but now I can't find one. Dragons, though, so there's that. I don't know if the image is from elsewhere in the comic or if it's just what I envisioned when reading her recitation of the event. My bad.

    I guess my reasoning is:
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    Still, let's see... In her conversation with the Emissary, she says that her memory of the last reset was from her previous incarnation, which the Emissary took to mean that it happened during her previous incarnation. Pandora is pretty cagey when it comes to her age, unfortunately, so everything is guesswork after that. Her age is consistently measured in centuries, as is the Dewitchery Diamond, which was tied to Blaike's death (the Unwaking Beast would have been the "Ellen" half of a dewitched werewolf, as she clearly labels Abraham as the man responsible for it). She says she's been claiming to be 299 for a few centuries at this point, she's at least 600, which would put her rebirth around 1400 or earlier, though I doubt it'd be much earlier than 1200 (more than that and her statement would be misleading - she doesn't want to directly answer Sarah's question but also clearly doesn't want to lie to her, either). Since she has her previous incarnation's memories intact, her previous incarnation was able to reset properly, so probably pulled the standard 200 year "lifespan". That would mean that magic would have reset sometime between 1000 and 1400 AD, depending on how precise she was when she said "a few centuries". That's more or less the later half of the middle ages and the start of the Renaissance, which would be "castles and kings".

    Take from that strained logic what you will.
    Well, I disagree. First off, she does say that she's been claiming to be 299 years old (300 years old more or less) for a "few" centuries. "Few" is a pretty vague word, it originally meant four (which would take us to 700 years), but in the Battle of Britain "the Few" were about a thousand pilots, if you included groundcrew and telephonists etc. it's probably more like fifty thousand. I don't think Pandora is admitting to being older than civilisation, since she claimed the name Pandora from the legend, but I don't know how old the oldest version of that legend is, and I wouldn't be surprised if she picked it up months after it's inception. I'm not saying it's proved that she's that old, there are some mild hints that she might be, for instance the emissary saying "but magic last changed..." as if that date was unbelievable, but it's certainly not proved.

    The world of EGS is not the real world, there, there were werewolves, and they were ended by Pandora, here that legend is a recent thing I believe.
    The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.

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    Default Re: El Goonish ShIVe: Damn It, Dan, Stop Teasing Us!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    there is a significant difference between a relationship running it's course and being terminated and getting rid of 90 of the cool stuff from the comic's almost 20 year run.
    The comic has built up a lot of clutter in that 20 years, and this could be a good time to 'clean house' so to say. Though by that logic, I'd expect a few characters to die in this upcoming fight.
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  20. - Top - End - #140
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShIVe: Damn It, Dan, Stop Teasing Us!

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    The comic has built up a lot of clutter in that 20 years, and this could be a good time to 'clean house' so to say. Though by that logic, I'd expect a few characters to die in this upcoming fight.
    "Literally the entire established system of magic, possibly all of Tedd's cool stuff, and the special powers that Dan went out of his way to show us and confirm were canon" is not clutter.

    Edit: Dan is also on the record as hating hurting his characters and he created an exaggeratedly evil person so he wouldn't feel bad killing off an extra.

    Nobody important is going to die. People will be imperiled, they may be harmed, but no one is dying.
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  21. - Top - End - #141
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShIVe: Damn It, Dan, Stop Teasing Us!

    No! No!!! No Reset Madness! Not my EGS! Resets only produces more stupid continuity than it gets rid of! Please no! We don't need the DC/Marvel stupidity spreading like a plague upon all things good and sacred!

    *runs off crying to write "NO RESET MADNESS" on the walls over and over again like a crazy person*

    I'm not joking. really, screw that.
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  22. - Top - End - #142
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShIVe: Damn It, Dan, Stop Teasing Us!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    "Literally the entire established system of magic, possibly all of Tedd's cool stuff, and the special powers that Dan went out of his way to show us and confirm were canon" is not clutter.

    Edit: Dan is also on the record as hating hurting his characters and he created an exaggeratedly evil person so he wouldn't feel bad killing off an extra.

    Nobody important is going to die. People will be imperiled, they may be harmed, but no one is dying.
    I know, and I consider that a flaw in his writing. He gets way too attached to his characters. Or perhaps I should say, he's way too big of a fan of his own characters?

    It kinda is. Everyone is magic, and now it's kinda like 'so now what?'. I mean, lets say they win. Everything goes back to normal, things calm down, Sarah gets magic, magic doesn't change, and they go back to living their ordinary lives. And magic will become very mundane. It will still be there, but with no real tension or wonder to it.

    If magic goes public, and thus changes, there is a lot more drama and tension in dealing with those changes. Everyone will have to deal with it in various ways, Tedd's seer powers will matter, Pandora will need to figure it out as well as keeping her oath to Sarah. And so on and so forth.
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  23. - Top - End - #143
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShIVe: Damn It, Dan, Stop Teasing Us!

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    I know, and I consider that a flaw in his writing. He gets way too attached to his characters. Or perhaps I should say, he's way too big of a fan of his own characters?

    It kinda is. Everyone is magic, and now it's kinda like 'so now what?'. I mean, lets say they win. Everything goes back to normal, things calm down, Sarah gets magic, magic doesn't change, and they go back to living their ordinary lives. And magic will become very mundane. It will still be there, but with no real tension or wonder to it.

    If magic goes public, and thus changes, there is a lot more drama and tension in dealing with those changes. Everyone will have to deal with it in various ways, Tedd's seer powers will matter, Pandora will need to figure it out as well as keeping her oath to Sarah. And so on and so forth.
    Option 3: Tedd/Tedd's Secret Identity says on live Telivision that his power is understanding how magic works, that magic might change, but he'll keep bringing it back as many times as he has to until magic agrees to play by what he considers fair rules. something something hidden purpose/something something Tedd's actually capable of bringing it back/something something Magic's inner drama geek squeels about how cool it is, it works.

    EGS is now a full unmasked World setting, Arthur and Voltaire are pissed off, setting up the possibility of further conflift down the line, and if Tedd isn't using a secret identity Noriko might comeback becuase Tedd's a super-wizard.

    Massive shake-up to the status quo, it's now full-fledged urban fantasy/superheroes setting with SoL elements instead of the other way around.

    I repeat, we had an entire storyline about what spells Ellen had and Dan went out of his way to establish that all the spells Rhoda used in the one NP were canon. Dan is not going to flush alll of that down the toilet, that's not the kind of author he is.

    (Especially since the show off Ellen's spells were done concurrently with Sister 3. There would be no point of showing us that if Ellen was never going to get to use them in canon.)

    And Magus' plan is set to come to fruition this arc, and that's dependant on both the Dewitchery Diamond and Ellen's version of FV5, both of which would stop working if Magic changed.

    We still don't know jack about Lord Tedd. Noriko is still out there. We don't know if Sarah is going to end up with Sam or in a Trio with Grace and Tedd. Tedd still wants to find a way to use magic to help everyone. Dan promised us more stuff with Kitty and Transwoman-Submissive friend who wants to be her pet catgirl.(I forgot her name)

    All that that is stuff that can be done without magic changing. A lot of it will get harder to do if magic changes.
    Last edited by Rater202; 2017-09-28 at 02:37 PM.
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  24. - Top - End - #144
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShIVe: Damn It, Dan, Stop Teasing Us!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    We don't know if Sarah is going to end up with Sam or in a Trio with Grace and Tedd.
    I suspect that what will happen there will be Sam saying "Actually, I'm trans." and Sarah saying "Oh? That's not for me thanks." and then Sarah ending up with Larry.
    The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.

  25. - Top - End - #145
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShIVe: Damn It, Dan, Stop Teasing Us!

    Quote Originally Posted by halfeye View Post
    I suspect that what will happen there will be Sam saying "Actually, I'm trans." and Sarah saying "Oh? That's not for me thanks." and then Sarah ending up with Larry.
    With all the sex-changing magic and technology she has access to? Unless you're suggesting Sarah would misinterpret it as Sam being girl-in-guy's-body instead of the actual case, I'd expect her first reaction to be struggling to hide her laughter at just how thoroughly it is not a problem, followed by realizing she might not be free to tell and frantically trying to explain without either revealing too much or offending him.
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  26. - Top - End - #146
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShIVe: Damn It, Dan, Stop Teasing Us!

    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas View Post
    With all the sex-changing magic and technology she has access to? Unless you're suggesting Sarah would misinterpret it as Sam being girl-in-guy's-body instead of the actual case, I'd expect her first reaction to be struggling to hide her laughter at just how thoroughly it is not a problem, followed by realizing she might not be free to tell and frantically trying to explain without either revealing too much or offending him.
    I don't know what you think the actual case is, from:

    http://www.egscomics.com/index.php?id=1906

    I am under the impression that Sam is Samantha, and trans. I'm not saying Sarah will be uncool with that (she'll probably arrange some deal with Ted to simplify things), but I don't think she'll be interested in a relationship with Samantha either. I am guessing about Sarah's reaction, I think she's not a bigot about gay or bi-sexual people, but I think we've been shown so far that she isn't one herself (my memory is rubbish, there may be something I'm not remembering).
    The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.

  27. - Top - End - #147
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShIVe: Damn It, Dan, Stop Teasing Us!

    Quote Originally Posted by halfeye View Post
    I don't know what you think the actual case is, from:

    http://www.egscomics.com/index.php?id=1906

    I am under the impression that Sam is Samantha, and trans. I'm not saying Sarah will be uncool with that (she'll probably arrange some deal with Ted to simplify things), but I don't think she'll be interested in a relationship with Samantha either. I am guessing about Sarah's reaction, I think she's not a bigot about gay or bi-sexual people, but I think we've been shown so far that she isn't one herself (my memory is rubbish, there may be something I'm not remembering).
    I think the actual case is that Sam is the guy-in-girl's-body variety of trans, and I'm saying Sarah would want to solve the problem by providing female-to-male transformation to Sam. Sam becomes male physically as well as mentally, Sam's gender dysphoria problem is solved, Sarah's orientation is satisfied, everyone's happy. Except Mr. Verres and his government associates who don't want knowledge of magic spreading.
    Last edited by Douglas; 2017-09-28 at 10:21 PM.
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  28. - Top - End - #148
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShIVe: Damn It, Dan, Stop Teasing Us!

    Quote Originally Posted by halfeye View Post
    I don't know what you think the actual case is, from:

    http://www.egscomics.com/index.php?id=1906

    I am under the impression that Sam is Samantha, and trans. I'm not saying Sarah will be uncool with that (she'll probably arrange some deal with Ted to simplify things), but I don't think she'll be interested in a relationship with Samantha either. I am guessing about Sarah's reaction, I think she's not a bigot about gay or bi-sexual people, but I think we've been shown so far that she isn't one herself (my memory is rubbish, there may be something I'm not remembering).
    I don't think anyone here thought Sam was FtM, just that Sarah might misunderstand as such.

    I don't understand why you think Sarah, despite not being a bigot, would thus... turn down Sam? Not even sure what the verb is here. What does whether or not Sarah is trans have to do with anything?
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  29. - Top - End - #149
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShIVe: Damn It, Dan, Stop Teasing Us!

    Sarah herself has claimed to not be fully heterosexual (like a 1 on the Kinsey scale if I remember right) but I can't really find the comic she talks about that in.

    But seriously, it would be very strange for Sarah to be bothered by Sam being a boy who was born with the wrong dangly bits.
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  30. - Top - End - #150
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShIVe: Damn It, Dan, Stop Teasing Us!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Im just saying, Dan went to a lot of effort to show off what the cast can do, and it's not like him to throw things away like that.

    Also, he doesn't like hurting his characters and most of them would be upset by losing their powers.

    I'm honestly expecting that Tedd will force magic not to change by making it publicaly known that he/any identity he uses to protect himself is a Seer and that he'll keep bringing magic back as long as it takes.

    As for names... How many differant ways are there, right now, to alter someone's form? Combined with the Uryuom work-suits and communicator watches that got used once? and Nanase's angel form?
    I won't exclude the possibility that that is how it will go but that sounds like a terrible idea when dealing with a intelligent power that makes the new rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adaon Nightwind View Post
    I sure do hope everyone will get out of this alive. I can accept it if there will be casualties - this is not my story to tell, but only to hang on for the ride, and there a lot of reasons i could think of that *might* make it a good story. But i do agree that Dan is not in the habit of having characters killed, and he also knows how many feelings a person can invest into a well-developed fictional character.

    That said, even thinking about "losing" a specific character like that hit me pretty hard. I am quite glad that it is not an established business model to create a story, making people fall for it and than demanding money for keeping the characters alive.

    @Grey_Wolf_c: Is it not "Charlotte's Angels"?
    Oh paying to keep characters alive, that is genius! Of course you can't demand it directly people would dislike that but if you have sad a subscription or premium fan club deal and the members sometimes get to vote on things about the story and conveniently you create a fake faction of members that want to get the characters killed…

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