afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

[Psyren]

Cross-posting from a thread over in general roleplaying - what is the reason/history behind the connection between barghests and goblins? Is there a reason the former can turn into the latter? Did Maglubiyet create them or something?

[afroakuma]

Cross-posting from a thread over in general roleplaying - what is the reason/history behind the connection between barghests and goblins? Is there a reason the former can turn into the latter? Did Maglubiyet create them or something?

I haven't turned up any contact whatsoever between Maglubiyet and barghests. D&D hasn't exactly delved into the goblinoid races in much detail, so I'm not surprised there wasn't much to be found. Ultimately, I see no in-setting reason, officially, why barghests would have any goblin characteristics.

If you'd like a possible non-canonical answer, it's worth noting that Maglubiyet used to have a pair of sons, who he feared would grow in power and overthrow him. Like any good father would, he dispatched them on suicide missions until it took. We know they were sent against "orcs and dwarves," but there's no reason one of them might not have ended up on, say, a Blood War battlefield on Gehenna, where his end finally came. His essence may still linger on the plane, giving rise to the first barghests. As for why Maglubiyet would let barghests come among goblin tribes if he's so suspicious: after millennia warring with Gruumsh, he's come to realize (a bit too late) that competent and powerful lieutenants are a valuable resource. Barghests have no ambitions to permanently overthrow a goblin tribe; when they mature, they return to Gehenna. This makes them self-securitizing temporary trump cards for goblin tribes to make good use of.

[Psyren]

Thanks for the response both here and there

[JoeyTheNeko]

is there any relation between the MM2 monster leviathan and the elder evil of the same name?
also the upper planes and lower planes both have catlike and doglike celestials and fiends.. any vulpine fiends and celestials?

[afroakuma]

is there any relation between the MM2 monster leviathan and the elder evil of the same name?

They're both aquatic.

Otherwise, no. Presumably the megawhale was named based on the sea monster's ancient name coming into use as a genericism for a large sea creature. Not unlike what actually did happen for the MM2.

also the upper planes and lower planes both have catlike and doglike celestials and fiends.. any vulpine fiends and celestials?

Nope. Not officially, at least.

[JoeyTheNeko]

are there any famous cases of inevitables at work in any campaign models, aside from the infamous case involving pandorym from elder evils?

[ksbsnowowl]

Minor note to the question of Foo Creatures a few pages back... though not official WotC content, the Tome of Horrors does have a Foo Creature template.

On to my own questions... My PC's recently delved into a Plane of Mirrors, and one of the mirror-selves succeeded in killing his CG original PC character, and this new LE character escaped, leaving through the nearest mirror, and out into the multiverse.

If this newly-freed mirror-self (who is an Outsider) was subjected to a banishment effect, what would be considered his home plane? The same home plane as the PC who he has killed and "replaced?" Or the Plane of Mirrors?

If his home plane is the Plane of Mirrors, is it the Plane of Mirrors, generally? (i.e. - Could he be banished back to any random constellation of mirrors?) Or is it his specific originating constellation?

If it is his original constellation of mirrors, what would happen if all the mirrors to that constellation were already broken, and the mirror-self was subjected to a banishment effect?

On a semi-related line of thought, if a freed mirror-self were to ever return to his home constellation (via the Mirror Walking spell, MotP p. 205), would he create another mirror-self (thus, the above LE mirror-self creating a new CG mirror-mirror-self that wants to kill him)? What about if the freed mirror-self entered any other mirror constellation than the one that spawned him?

On an unrelated topic, what information is there about the Demon Princess Rhyxali and her realm, Shaddonon, the 49th layer of the Abyss?
So far all the official info I've found is scant references in Fiendish Codex I, and some slightly more thorough information in Expedition to the Demonweb Pits. She is the queen of shadow demons and secrets, she is rumored to be Graz'zt's sister, she has a hunting lodge on her layer of the Abyss, she somehow magically darkens the environment around her (she is said to darken the entire city of Zelatar when she visits), and her entourage includes 100 shadow demons.

As far as unofficial sources, I found this info in a blog post, though I have no clue if there is any official info that is a basis for this write-up:

Shaddonon (The Abyss 49th Layer)

This dark plane of night and shadow is home to undead, shadow demons and the demon lord Rhyxali the princess of shadows. Rhyxali appears as a dark-skinned woman with six-fingers. This lends credence to her relationship with Graz’zt, which she has yet to confirm or deny. She and Graz’zt maintain an attitude of indifference to one another. As befits her subjects, Rhyxali can become incorporeal at will. She is often seen wielding two daggers. Rhyxali‘s symbol is a jet black dagger. A realm of dark forests and eternal twilight, this is where the shadow demons supposedly originate. Rhyxali basically has given her subjects free rein to do as they please but with only one edict: to spy and gather as much information throughout the planes as possible.Rhyxali uses the intelligence gathered by her subjects for personal gain and to barter for wealth, favors, and souls. Otherwise, the demoness is uninterested in the power struggles common in the Abyss between other demon lords.

Would it be appropriate to treat Rhyxali's layer as supernaturally dark, and utilize the halved illumination radius rules from p. 90 of Expedition to Castle Ravenloft?

Lastly, do both the Positive Energy Plane and the Negative Energy Plane lack breathable air? There is a single passing reference to this in each of those planes' entries in the MotP, and the rest of Third Edition seems to have ignored those lines. There are multiple modules and adventure scenarios that take place in either of those planes, and no mention is made as to PC's or other creatures suffocating without magical means of breathing.

[Babale]

So very much inspired by your threads, I'm about to start a group of solo campaigns set in Planescape and focused on exploration, the idea being that the players will be running separate adventures but all hear of each other's exploits. I've come up with a Plane Charter's guild as a way to dispense plot hooks and supplies as well as keep the players engaged with each other. I'm starting the campaign at level 12.

My question is, I like the idea of kicking things off with a race, Around the Wheel in 80 Days so to speak. The goal would be to, starting in the Outlands, travel through to each plane in sequence, going all the way around the Wheel and finally returning to the Outlands.

1. What organization in Sigil might host an event like this?
2. Who, aside from adventurers, might compete? Not specific people, but stuff like "planes walkers" or "priests of deity X"
3. The goal isn't just to hop into a plane, then hop back -- I'm thinking you need to reach a special location or perform a special task in each plane. It should be hard, but not impossible -- so not "reach the top of Mt. Celestia" or "Steal the Pact Primeval from Asmodeus" :P. What are some good ideas for each plane?

Thanks so much for these threads! You've really inspired me a lot, I'm very much looking forwards to running this campaign.

[ksbsnowowl]

My question is, I like the idea of kicking things off with a race, Around the Wheel in 80 Days so to speak. The goal would be to, starting in the Outlands, travel through to each plane in sequence, going all the way around the Wheel and finally returning to the Outlands.

1. What organization in Sigil might host an event like this?
2. Who, aside from adventurers, might compete? Not specific people, but stuff like "planes walkers" or "priests of deity X"
3. The goal isn't just to hop into a plane, then hop back -- I'm thinking you need to reach a special location or perform a special task in each plane. It should be hard, but not impossible -- so not "reach the top of Mt. Celestia" or "Steal the Pact Primeval from Asmodeus" :P. What are some good ideas for each plane?

Cool and fun idea.

In answer to your third question, you could basically make it a scavenger hunt. Some of the things needed to be gathered could be creature pelts (white stag pelts from the Beastlands?) or abilities from magical locations that exist in specific areas (i.e. - the Shriver in Baator). Some planes have objects specific to those planes (the portal keys of the Demonweb Pits, for example), which might make good objects to be scavenged, as there are multiples of them, they can be taken off-realm, but are specific to her layer. To change it up, some planes might have mere waypoints as you described, that have to be visited by the participants. For the start and finish, you could easily have the whole race start and end AT the Spire in the Outlands. The complete lack of magic that close would truly make it a race that could come down to the wire.

Some planes are restrictive in how many layers someone can access (it's hard for most people to get higher than the first layer of Mount Celestia, for example, as reaching access to a new layer is tantamount to reaching a new level of enlightenment about Good and Law), but they do occasionally have means of being accessed (Bahamut's divine realm/palace actually moves between the first four layers of Mt. Celestia, and is listed as one of the few ways adventurers can overcome the above limitation).

For planes with multiple accessible layers, it might be a nice idea to require stops in at least a handful of them. Goals on two of the nine layers of Baator, for example. For the Abyss, I'd maybe go as many as 12 goals on 12 different layers (depending on how long you want to stretch out this campaign).

[Babale]

Additional question: One of my players wants to play a gray Slaad. As a CR 10 HD 10 monster with nice but not ludicrous powers, I am not opposed to letting him play one from a game perspective (probably start him off with 2 class levels). From an RP perspective -- this is a mature player who I trust to play a Slaad in a reasonably way. He has a great grasp on how to play a Chaotic Neutral character without being insane or annoying. But a slaad is just RAW CHAOS -- any tips on what to expect/reading material I can share on Slaad behavior?

EDIT: Found some info about Xanxost, a Blue Slaad explorer of the planes who likes to discover new places, tell people about them, and eat mephits on his journey. Sounds like a Slaad PC is easier than I expected! But any more advice would be appreciated.

[afroakuma]

If this newly-freed mirror-self (who is an Outsider) was subjected to a banishment effect, what would be considered his home plane? The same home plane as the PC who he has killed and "replaced?" Or the Plane of Mirrors?

It's an extraplanar outsider from the Plane of Mirrors, so the Plane of Mirrors would be its "home plane."

If his home plane is the Plane of Mirrors, is it the Plane of Mirrors, generally? (i.e. - Could he be banished back to any random constellation of mirrors?) Or is it his specific originating constellation?

The Plane of Mirrors is a very poorly-handled concept, which is inconsistently dealt with in both of the 3rd Edition sources that handled it. What the Manual of the Planes calls "a Plane of Mirrors," Fiend Folio refers to as a constellation. Nerra can also travel the Plane of Mirrors and exit through a mirror up to a mile away, or enter via a reflective surface - the lack of restriction to related mirrors means that they can move between constellations. It might be best to view the Plane of Mirrors as an aberrant Transitive Plane consisting of quasi-demiplanes anchored to some unseen alien medium - presumably the source of the "substance" that nerra shard weapons are constituted from, given that other descriptions paint the constellations as stone hallways with windowlike mirror portals.

If it is his original constellation of mirrors, what would happen if all the mirrors to that constellation were already broken, and the mirror-self was subjected to a banishment effect?

Assuming you do not choose to follow the above, banishment, like dismissal, can throw an outsider into a plane to which it is not native. You could therefore state that if its home plane is inaccessible, any of the following happen:

• The spell fails to work - there is no conduit for it to function through.
• The spell fails to work 80% of the time; the other 20% of the time, the creature is dispatched to another plane (as dismissal)
• The spell ejects the creature to another plane - it's meant to be a "go away," not a "go to this specific place," and the margin for error reflects force vs. ease (ease being shoving the creature back where it naturally belongs). With ease unavailable, force is gonna do what force does best.

Alternately, do whatever feels right. If you want banishment to shatter it into a billion pieces, go nuts. I'd suggest stopping short of "it becomes a new vestige!" as that's got some silly implications for the vestige population.

On a semi-related line of thought, if a freed mirror-self were to ever return to his home constellation (via the Mirror Walking spell, MotP p. 205), would he create another mirror-self (thus, the above LE mirror-self creating a new CG mirror-mirror-self that wants to kill him)?

Again, I must stress that we're talking about an extremely ill-defined and poorly thought out thing here - nobody took any amount of time to account for these questions. Therefore, canonically, the answer is yes. Personally, I wouldn't make that ruling, but what do I know.

What about if the freed mirror-self entered any other mirror constellation than the one that spawned him?

Same answer, same caveat.

On an unrelated topic, what information is there about the Demon Princess Rhyxali and her realm, Shaddonon, the 49th layer of the Abyss?

That information.

So far all the official info I've found is scant references in Fiendish Codex I, and some slightly more thorough information in Expedition to the Demonweb Pits.

That's about the size of it, plus the above.

Would it be appropriate to treat Rhyxali's layer as supernaturally dark, and utilize the halved illumination radius rules from p. 90 of Expedition to Castle Ravenloft?

Sure, why not?

Lastly, do both the Positive Energy Plane and the Negative Energy Plane lack breathable air?

They do indeed. Happy suffocating!

There is a single passing reference to this in each of those planes' entries in the MotP, and the rest of Third Edition seems to have ignored those lines.

Oh wow Third Edition being lazy about the Planes to the point that undead are functionally immortal on the Positive Energy Plane and ravids can't survive there who could have seen that coming.

There are multiple modules and adventure scenarios that take place in either of those planes, and no mention is made as to PC's or other creatures suffocating without magical means of breathing.

For the most part, adventures that visit the Energy Planes tend to go to specific locations which have some degree of protection against the overwhelming energy of the plane - buildings, for example, can't exist unprotected in either Positive (which would make them explode into stars) or Negative (which would entropy them out of existence). The creators of such structures generally desire the capacity to breathe. Bit less so on Negative, considering...

So very much inspired by your threads, I'm about to start a group of solo campaigns set in Planescape and focused on exploration, the idea being that the players will be running separate adventures but all hear of each other's exploits.

Sounds fun! Glad I could help.

1. What organization in Sigil might host an event like this?

Eh, some of the factions, perhaps? The Planewalkers' Guild, conceivably.

2. Who, aside from adventurers, might compete? Not specific people, but stuff like "planes walkers" or "priests of deity X"

Again, members of certain factions - Sensates, especially, one would imagine; members of the Planewalkers' Guild; priests of whichever travel deity you like, I suppose - Fharlanghn, Shaundakul, maybe some storyteller deities? There are a lot of gods. If there's a prize, bring greed into the mix - or perhaps some unscrupulous merchants who see participation as an opportunity to spy on other racers and learn about unexploited routes to travel quickly around the Wheel. There's no end to reasons why one might join such a race.

3. The goal isn't just to hop into a plane, then hop back -- I'm thinking you need to reach a special location or perform a special task in each plane. It should be hard, but not impossible -- so not "reach the top of Mt. Celestia" or "Steal the Pact Primeval from Asmodeus" :P. What are some good ideas for each plane?

It may be worth looking into The Great Modron March, which is about the modrons' (unscheduled) march around the Great Wheel and features numerous adventures along their trek. Two questions you'll have to decide on are where the race will begin and in which direction it runs - assuming it does, rather than being effectively a scavenger hunt.

As for what kinds of things to do - I'd imagine you could set up checkpoints, or otherwise require collection of proof in bags of holding. Steal a thing, buy a thing, trade for a thing, collect a thing, kill a thing... of course, you could go more abstract as well, and get them to do something less tangible. If you're feeling kind, you'll send them to the top layers only. If you're feeling cruel, you could send them deeper. Just as some examples:

Acheron
• Journey into the dangerous reaches of the decaying divine realm of Zigguraxus to collect one of Tiamat's scales.
• Steal away with one of Bralm's insects from the Hive Fortress
• Claim an obsidian blade from the warriors on the cube of Tlatocalli.
• Cause a moment of silence in Hextor's Colosseum.
• Bring an orc and a goblin to the negotiating table. (You don't have to keep them there!)
• Charge a wand of lightning bolt by bringing it near the lightning spirits of the Blue Cube.
• Find a checkpoint on the elusive Mirrored Cube, which cannot be located by normal magical means.

You've really inspired me a lot, I'm very much looking forwards to running this campaign.

I hope you have a lot of fun with it!

[Babale]

Thanks Afro, that's some great inspiration!

I'm thinking I'll have them start in Mechanus' gate town and work their way clockwise. That way they pass through the "safest" planes first, if any plane can truly be described as "safe", with the stretch of Evil planes as a climax to the adventure.

Based on your list, I'm thinking that each plane will have a list of 10 or so challenges, and that upon first entering a plane (after having completed the last plane in the circle -- so if you cut through Gehenna on the way from the Abyss to Carceri, that doesn't count) you roll to find out which three challenges you must complete, with the final leg of the race being an overland trek to one of the Rilmani cities at the base of the Spire.

The "approved" route is the safest -- traveling to each plane, then back out through the gate town, then overland to the next gate town. Teleportation or plane shifting magic is disallowed, but any shortcuts (portals, planar pathways, hitching a ride with a local who can naturally plane shift) are totally fine. Your ideas for competitors are pretty cool -- I especially like the idea of merchants who are trying to figure out new routes the easy way. In fact, I could see them being the sponsors of the competition -- the whole race is just a marketing ploy/scheme to find new planar routes.

I've also got some ideas for people competing now -- I think the reward will be something fairly innocuous, but for some reason there are some strangely influential groups sending some very powerful and nasty individuals to compete.

I'll check out The Great Modron March for inspiration, thanks. Your ideas are pretty cool too! I like how some are combat based, some are diplomacy based, and some are stealth based. Will be fun to mess with my players by giving the Warblade a stealth challenge and the Slaad a diplomacy one

EDIT:

Posted my own thread for more suggestions -- would love any input you guys can provide! http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...6#post22474246

[afroakuma]

Additional question: One of my players wants to play a gray Slaad. As a CR 10 HD 10 monster with nice but not ludicrous powers, I am not opposed to letting him play one from a game perspective (probably start him off with 2 class levels). From an RP perspective -- this is a mature player who I trust to play a Slaad in a reasonably way. He has a great grasp on how to play a Chaotic Neutral character without being insane or annoying. But a slaad is just RAW CHAOS -- any tips on what to expect/reading material I can share on Slaad behavior?

Keep in mind that gray slaad have a much different mindset from blue slaad - Xanxost may be a great planar adventurer, but his racial stats include a -4 to Int and Wis. Conversely, a gray slaad is 8 points smarter and wiser (and 4 points more charismatic) on average. Grays are also much more self-involved and their curiosity and interests trend toward personal power, magical items, and arcane studies. They are likely to carry magical items with self-sizing properties so that they can make best use of their ability to change forms without getting hindered by their equipment or unable to make use of it. Do remember that a gray slaad has abilities that may adjust encounters significantly - he will always be able to see invisibility, should often be invisible himself, and likely favors fighting with lightning bolts, chaos hammers and a wand or two to cover other energy types. These are of course generalizations.

I'm thinking I'll have them start in Mechanus' gate town and work their way clockwise. That way they pass through the "safest" planes first, if any plane can truly be described as "safe", with the stretch of Evil planes as a climax to the adventure.

If that's the direction you want to go, then you'll definitely want to check out The Great Modron March - it goes in the same direction.

I've also got some ideas for people competing now -- I think the reward will be something fairly innocuous, but for some reason there are some strangely influential groups sending some very powerful and nasty individuals to compete.

I wonder if it's actually innocuous, or if the beliefs and aspirations of the racers and those following the event may make it something more than intended.

[Babale]

Keep in mind that gray slaad have a much different mindset from blue slaad - Xanxost may be a great planar adventurer, but his racial stats include a -4 to Int and Wis. Conversely, a gray slaad is 8 points smarter and wiser (and 4 points more charismatic) on average. Grays are also much more self-involved and their curiosity and interests trend toward personal power, magical items, and arcane studies. They are likely to carry magical items with self-sizing properties so that they can make best use of their ability to change forms without getting hindered by their equipment or unable to make use of it. Do remember that a gray slaad has abilities that may adjust encounters significantly - he will always be able to see invisibility, should often be invisible himself, and likely favors fighting with lightning bolts, chaos hammers and a wand or two to cover other energy types. These are of course generalizations.

So if anything, while a blue slaad scholar is an oddity, a gray slaad with enough curiosity to explore the multiverse would be more common, since he's likely looking for ways to improve himself and his knowledge of magic (or his bag of loot)?

I wouldn't let him play a slaad in a normal game without some heavy LA, but in a solo campaign, I'm not TOO worried about balance with other party members, and I can tailor encounters to him.

If that's the direction you want to go, then you'll definitely want to check out The Great Modron March - it goes in the same direction.

Yeah, I'm looking to pick it up this weekend. I like that direction because it leaves the Hells for last, and these players haven't done a lot of Planescape before, so I'd like to introduce them to the setting a little more slowly. Of course, one of the possible challenges I've thought of is "jam a gear on Mechanus" so maybe I'm not quite as nice as I may appear :P

I wonder if it's actually innocuous, or if the beliefs and aspirations of the racers and those following the event may make it something more than intended.

Oh, that's an interesting idea. I was thinking of making it something that's actually got very powerful properties that aren't advertised, and that many of the bad guys racing have learned about -- but if it's ACTUALLY a worthless piece of junk, but enough racers BELIEVE it has powers, could that actually grant the item those powers in the Planescape setting? In fact, could that be what the people holding the race are counting on? That they can offer something worthless as a reward but get people so hyped up about it that at the end of the race it's actually a valid reward?

[Naanomi]

If you were a devout worshiper of an element (in an abstract sense... like 'the cult the flame' or something); could you end up in the appropriate Inner Plane after death; or is that only followers of Gods who actually live in the Inner Planes

What Outer Plane is most likely to house Alienists and other 'worshippers' of Far Realms dwellers after death? I'm guessing... Pandemonium may gather that sort of type, but I'm not sure

Do beings that worship physical entities... dragon worshippers, beholder cultists, etc... end up tied to the Racial Gods' divine realm post mortum (like... would/could said LE beholder cultist end up in the Great Mother's realm on the Abyss; or just dumped in Baator somewhere?)?

How about followers of Demon Lords the like... even though they are not Gods, do their souls end up at the Demon's layer in the Abyss anyways? Even if they are just worshippers and havnt 'sold their soul' or something so formal?

[Tzardok]

Oh, that's an interesting idea. I was thinking of making it something that's actually got very powerful properties that aren't advertised, and that many of the bad guys racing have learned about -- but if it's ACTUALLY a worthless piece of junk, but enough racers BELIEVE it has powers, could that actually grant the item those powers in the Planescape setting? In fact, could that be what the people holding the race are counting on? That they can offer something worthless as a reward but get people so hyped up about it that at the end of the race it's actually a valid reward?

I would think having enough people believe it to be meaning- or powerful would retroactively make it so, but that's just my opinion.

If you were a devout worshiper of an element (in an abstract sense... like 'the cult the flame' or something); could you end up in the appropriate Inner Plane after death; or is that only followers of Gods who actually live in the Inner Planes

Mind you, I'm guessing with all my answers today, but most likely they would just go to an appropriate Outer Plane, like worshippers of other concepts. (Unless they are secretely sponsored by a deity, like Kossuth for example.)

What Outer Plane is most likely to house Alienists and other 'worshippers' of Far Realms dwellers after death? I'm guessing... Pandemonium may gather that sort of type, but I'm not sure

Unless they get dragged into the Far Realms , they would just go where their alignment fits. As worshippers of Far Realm Entities are very chaotic and tend to be evil, Pandemonium is in fact the most likely place.

Do beings that worship physical entities... dragon worshippers, beholder cultists, etc... end up tied to the Racial Gods' divine realm post mortum (like... would/could said LE beholder cultist end up in the Great Mother's realm on the Abyss; or just dumped in Baator somewhere?)?

Case by case basis I think. Beholder cultists in fact get their magic from the Great Mother and therefore go to her realm. Shamanic worshippers of some kind of Behemoth or monster would most likely go per alignment. Dragon worshippers... no idea but I lean to the second case.

How about followers of Demon Lords the like... even though they are not Gods, do their souls end up at the Demon's layer in the Abyss anyways? Even if they are just worshippers and havnt 'sold their soul' or something so formal?

Yes, of course. The same for devil cultists and similar things.

[afroakuma]

if it's ACTUALLY a worthless piece of junk, but enough racers BELIEVE it has powers, could that actually grant the item those powers in the Planescape setting? In fact, could that be what the people holding the race are counting on? That they can offer something worthless as a reward but get people so hyped up about it that at the end of the race it's actually a valid reward?

Quite possibly - assuming the scheme isn't to gather the power of belief into the item, and then abscond with it. Of course, that might break the faith...

If you were a devout worshiper of an element (in an abstract sense... like 'the cult the flame' or something); could you end up in the appropriate Inner Plane after death; or is that only followers of Gods who actually live in the Inner Planes

While other powerful beings, like the archomentals, do have their own cults and some degree of... spiritual magnetism, let's say, in practice there are very few people who worship elemental fire. They worship heat and warmth, or burning and destruction, or light... the nature of these beliefs is more likely to put them where they actually belong - Muspelheim, for instance, or Phlegethos, or less specifically always on fire places. As for those who do worship elemental fire, they probably venerate Kossuth, or one of his peers. For instance, on Krynn, fire is the province of Sirrion - although again, if you're venerating volcanoes and scorched earth and immolating your enemies for their crimes, you're not worshiping elemental fire, so you'd go to Sargonnas.

In short, a soul normally has no business going to any Inner Plane, save that they worship a god who lives there. Akadi, Grumbar, Istishia, and Kossuth (and their peers, many of whom do not live on the Inner Planes) are waiting for those who legitimately have committed themselves to believing in an element.

What Outer Plane is most likely to house Alienists and other 'worshippers' of Far Realms dwellers after death?

They may not escape the Prime at all; or they may become caught in the Astral; or get pulled in some horrific aberrant fashion into the Ethereal, or Shadow, or somewhere else where their soul does not belong. It depends on what kind of spiritual bonds they have forged. Knowing most worshipers of inchoate and insane things, the Gehenna-Pandemonium section of the Wheel is probably waiting for many of them, though I wouldn't put it past some to end up in Ocanthus.

Do beings that worship physical entities... dragon worshippers, beholder cultists, etc... end up tied to the Racial Gods' divine realm post mortum (like... would/could said LE beholder cultist end up in the Great Mother's realm on the Abyss; or just dumped in Baator somewhere?)?

If their patron is actually proxying for such a deity, then yes - this means teaching the appropriate methods of worship, dogmas, all that sort of thing. If they're venerating something unrelated - "Oh great and mighty Eye, who gives Wisdom and who is the Sun..." then definitely not.

How about followers of Demon Lords the like... even though they are not Gods, do their souls end up at the Demon's layer in the Abyss anyways? Even if they are just worshippers and havnt 'sold their soul' or something so formal?

They do, yes.

[unseenmage]

Someone from Golarion (PF-verse) finds themselves in Faerun. They still worship their PF deity. What happens to their soul when they die?

Does paying some small regular worship to an appropriate Faerun deity in addition to still worshipping their PF deity change the outcome?

What if the PF deity worshipper manages to start an entire church in Faerun?
A continent spanning religious following?

[Babale]

Is there a particular reason why only the pure alignment planes have Exemplars? I searched through previous threads, but couldn't find anything. Why are, say, Valkyries not Exemplars? I understand that they aren't exemplars because they aren't formed from mortal souls, but my question is -- why not? Why don't the planes between the Big 9 have their own example of a race of Outsiders formed from mortal souls? Does this make them less important on a cosmic scale? Would I be breaking anything if in my campaign I made certain races on each of those planes that Plane's Exemplar?

(I'd probably need to make Gehenna's exemplars extinct or close to it, due to the Yugoloth invasion, I suppose?)

[gkathellar]

Someone from Golarion (PF-verse) finds themselves in Faerun. They still worship their PF deity. What happens to their soul when they die?

Unless their deity exists on the Great Wheel, they end up in the Wall of the Faithless.

Does paying some small regular worship to an appropriate Faerun deity in addition to still worshipping their PF deity change the outcome?

They're judged False, and end up in the Wall of the Faithless.

What if the PF deity worshipper manages to start an entire church in Faerun?
A continent spanning religious following?

Then the deity will come into existence on the Great Wheel. What's far more likely, however, is that an existing power with similarities to the PF deity will infiltrate the nascent faith and fill it with their own rituals and practices, allowing them to scoop up all of that delicious worship as something directed at one of their lesser aspects. Shar, in particular, has done this to an existing deity (Shar is awesome). The odds that none of Toril's gods will do it to one that can't fight back are, uh ... yeah.

Really, though, your odds here are pretty slim. Toril's gods guard their power base jealously, and it's hard to convert people when you can't cast any divine spells. What's more likely is that this ends with a trip to the Wall of the Faithless.

[afroakuma]

Someone from Golarion (PF-verse) finds themselves in Faerun. They still worship their PF deity. What happens to their soul when they die?

I'm assuming we're treating Golarion as an alternate Material Plane from a different cosmology, in which case: Wall.

Does paying some small regular worship to an appropriate Faerun deity in addition to still worshipping their PF deity change the outcome?

Judged False, condemned to punishment in the City of the Dead. Probably service rather than misery, considering.

What if the PF deity worshipper manages to start an entire church in Faerun?
A continent spanning religious following?

It's possible that over time a demigod appears using the name of that person's god; it's also possible that agents of that god in the Golarion multiverse follow the trail of the missing faithful, report back to their god, and that god dispatches an avatar or other proxy through the Plane of Shadow to the Great Wheel to petition Ao for permission to operate within his crystal sphere, in which case the god would exist in two multiverses - though at that point it would be hard to say that it's the same god as opposed to two parts originating from one, which have become separate and distinctive.

More likely, syncretism takes over and a native deity usurps the faith. If it has anything remotely to do with Shar, it'll be Shar.

Shar, in particular, has done this to an existing deity (Shar is awesome).

Pfft. "An."

Is there a particular reason why only the pure alignment planes have Exemplars?

Essentially it's because an exemplar embodies a pure alignment, not a gray area in between. From a meta standpoint it's because the cardinal planes are more fleshed out than the intermediate planes.

Does this make them less important on a cosmic scale?

In some ways, yes; in other ways, no. Souls need the freedom to not be heavenly/beatific/diabolic/demoniac. Heck, many petitioners on the cardinal planes have nothing to do with the exemplar races. Arguably the exemplars may exist on the cardinal planes specifically because the intermediate planes exist; they "stand apart" from one another, giving explicit definition to their own spoke of the Wheel and implicit definition to the spokes between.

Would I be breaking anything if in my campaign I made certain races on each of those planes that Plane's Exemplar?

I mean, you'd need to explain what that means in that context; just because outsiders are not exemplars does not mean they weren't formed from mortal souls. "Demon" is the term for all natives of the Abyss, for instance, but tanar'ri are the exemplar race. I actually attempted this once a long time ago, but ultimately just didn't find a justification to have the paragons, ergoi/vahanas, aumakua/totems, vaettir, lamenti, carcerati/demodands, deodands, and hamartia/preta/shaitan/yokai overcomplicating things. Even the fact that I didn't settle on terms for them should spell out how nebulous these plans were.

(I'd probably need to make Gehenna's exemplars extinct or close to it, due to the Yugoloth invasion, I suppose?)

One would imagine, yes.

[JoeyTheNeko]

so apparently the time of troubles was kicked off by bane trying to steal some sort of tablets that were of importance to Ao? what can one tell me about these items?

[afroakuma]

so apparently the time of troubles was kicked off by bane trying to steal some sort of tablets that were of importance to Ao? what can one tell me about these items?

The Tablets of Fate recorded the names and duties of the Faerûnian deities. They were actually utterly trivial, except insofar as two gods were acting like covetous little brats by stealing them and then refusing to own up to the theft when asked by Ao. Bane and Myrkul believed the Tablets contained vast power, or could be altered so as to give them the portfolios of the other gods, or otherwise held sway over the overgod in some fashion.

They were very wrong.

Spoiler: 4E nonsense

Show

The 4E excuse for shaking up the Realms was that Ao breaking the tablets ushered in the Era of Upheaval, but that's neither here nor there. In this thread, this is not material to discussions, and I will not entertain any questions following from this line of thought.

[JoeyTheNeko]

ah. thanks.
on the question of life pearls, are there similar objects from the negative energy plane of condensed negative energy? if there are not, what kind of effects would you give a hypothetical death pearl?

[afroakuma]

on the question of life pearls, are there similar objects from the negative energy plane of condensed negative energy?

Voidstone is a similar material, though less easy to manipulate and observed in far larger chunks. There may be no direct cognates on the "other side" for either life pearls or voidstone.

[Naanomi]

Are there an infinite number of Gods? Or just a 'transfinite' with an infinite number of worshippers from an infinite number of worlds?

If there are infinite Gods, how is there any territory on the non-infinite Planes (land space in Ghenna right?) not completely filled with Divine Realms?

[afroakuma]

Are there an infinite number of Gods? Or just a 'transfinite' with an infinite number of worshippers from an infinite number of worlds?

If there are infinite Gods, how is there any territory on the non-infinite Planes (land space in Ghenna right?) not completely filled with Divine Realms?

I knew someone asked this already. Turns out it was you.

[gkathellar]

Is there any particular in-multiverse "reason," so to speak, that Gehenna is non-infinite? If so, what is it?

[Pronounceable]

Hasn't anyone bit the bullet and named a flumph god Pastafar yet and why not? aka Just what gods are those worshipped by flumph monks in their monasteries unknown to mortals?

[Naanomi]

I knew someone asked this already. Turns out it was you.

Sorry! Same thoughts bubbling through my head I guess... I guess the mortal mind isn't able to deal with the infinite infinities of the Planes