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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    I got a hard question for you (it's hard cos there's no correct answer): What is the coolest and/or awesomest bits of fluff in all of DnD in your opinion? I'd think Lady of Pain or ancient Baatorians or any of the other usual suspects is too old for you by now, but maybe not.

    Mainly asking this because I'm looking for inspiration for my own little rewriting whole damn thing project over in General and figured anything Afro thinks is cool and/or awesome is bound to be good stuff.

    Also a more conventional question: What's up with this Ordial Plane thing I keep running into? It's not an official thing, is it?
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Pronounceable View Post
    Also a more conventional question: What's up with this Ordial Plane thing I keep running into? It's not an official thing, is it?
    It's a hypothetical transitive plane bridging the divide between the Inner and Outer planes, much as the Astral and Ethereal are to the Prime. There's no evidence that it exists, but a lot of planar scholars really, really want it to, because it could make planar travel easier.

    (You could compare it to string theory, except that proof of the ordial's existence would actually be a huge deal with meaningful implications.)
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    What would be the best way to go about integrating/reconciling the Great Wheel of Planescape with the Perception Range of Noisy Tenant? If the best way is "don't" then what's the second-best?

    EDIT: Since you've told me before to provide links when talking about things so obscure that even you need to look them up, I might as well say that a major Noisy Tenant resource (which, admittedly, is aimed at Clueless) is the Zonehoppers Guide, which can be found here. Since Noisy Tenant wasn't created with Planescape compatibility in mind (hence the necessity of my question) it uses the word "abyss" for something very different from the plane (though about equally horrifying to the general interplanar and/or interzonal population.) It also uses "layer" to mean something that's different-ish to a planar layer.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Pronounceable View Post
    Also a more conventional question: What's up with this Ordial Plane thing I keep running into? It's not an official thing, is it?
    In Planescape, the Ethereal Plane connects the Inner Planes and Material Plane. The Astral Plane connects the Material Plane and the Outer Planes.

    Now, since the Rule of Three is generally strong and reliable on the planes, people argue that there must be a third Transitive Plane, one that connects the Inner and Outer Planes directly.

    If such a plane exists, no one has reliably found it and returned. There are no known doors leading there in Sigil, no one has planeshifted there and back, there don't seem to be any kind of planar overlap zones or natural pathways, no oracle who can say anything about it.

    So, it remains very theoretical.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Pronounceable View Post
    I got a hard question for you (it's hard cos there's no correct answer): What is the coolest and/or awesomest bits of fluff in all of DnD in your opinion?
    Couldn't tell you.

    Mainly asking this because I'm looking for inspiration for my own little rewriting whole damn thing project over in General and figured anything Afro thinks is cool and/or awesome is bound to be good stuff.
    Hm? If you need a particular plot idea I'm more than happy to help, I recently armed someone with a whole campaign anchor. By going to get toast and then returning. Brain good like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by enderlord99 View Post
    What would be the best way to go about integrating/reconciling the Great Wheel of Planescape with the Perception Range of Noisy Tenant?
    There is no way this has any bearing on me whatsoever.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    huzzah afro is back, yay.

    so what exactly is a mythal? I read about them in forgotten realms, but seem to have missed what they actually were.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    In rules terms, a special epic spell available only to the Netherese, ancient elven High Mages and a few other supremely powerful spellcasting civilizations. What they do is apply some magical effect to a large area. Anything from changing the weather to giving magic to everyone in an area to suppressing entire schools of spells.

    If you see a place name starting with "Myth" in the Realms, it probably had a mythal at some point. Most famously probably Myth Drannor.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    According to Lost Empires of Faerun, the Netherese tended not to use mythals - instead creating the "mythallars" - artifacts that worked a little differently.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    With a mythallar being an artefact that projects a mythal over its suroundings. That's how the Netherese made most of their flying cities.
    I don't know wether elven mythals were also created by mythallars.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    The two are described differently though. It may be a case of "mythallar" being a name given to them by the elves - who wanted a term that would approximate their own "mythal" despite their different mechanisms.

    (The word "mythal" seems to have been applied years/centuries after the event, in some cases - possibly named after the creator of the Myth Drannor mythal - Mythanator - but he was far from the first to make them).

    Elven mythals (and the Silverymoon mythal) are created by a large number of casters working together, contributing spell slots (and if necessary, their own lives).

    It's not clear how mythallar artifacts are created.

    A mythallar's schtick is creating "quasi-magical items" like flying enclaves:

    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Mythallar

    A mythal's schtick is boosting spells, weakening other spells, and various warding and protection effects:

    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Mythal
    Last edited by hamishspence; 2017-07-12 at 07:15 AM.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    I don't get how the layers of Carseri work, spatially. Many are described as having seas or mountains or other large land-covering features, yet the whole plane is apparently a layered space of spheres. I also can't really find any artisitic depictions.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    The big thing about mythals is that they were doable for a while in FR's history, but are now, IIRC, on Mystra's ban list because of shenanigans. They presently serve to make ruined elven cities more interesting as adventure locations.

    On that note: could Shar theoretically allow a Wizard to create a mythal with the shadow weave?
    Last edited by gkathellar; 2017-07-12 at 07:33 AM.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    I don't get how the layers of Carseri work, spatially. Many are described as having seas or mountains or other large land-covering features, yet the whole plane is apparently a layered space of spheres. I also can't really find any artisitic depictions.
    Well, I mean, the plane you live on has spheres. They're extremely large and incredibly distant, but it's the same idea. Basically each of Carceri's layers consists of strings of planetoids in close proximity, such that one can easily see them trailing off into the distance in the skies. Buildings, seas, rivers, forests, mountains etc. all exist on the surface of these planetoids. There are fewer spheres on lower layers, and those that exist tend to be increasingly remote from one another.

    Remember that a "layer" is not literally beneath the surface of another, in the sense that the spheres of Cathrys aren't nested within the spheres of Othrys and so forth. When you descend to a deeper layer, you're on the surface (presumably) of a totally different planetoid in a cluster of totally different planetoids, with the empty void of Carceri above you, and no amount of searching across the same layer would find the ones you had been on from a higher layer.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by gkathellar View Post
    The big thing about mythals is that they were doable for a while in FR's history, but are now, IIRC, on Mystra's ban list because of shenanigans.
    Actually that's Spells Above 9th Level - due to Karsus's stunt.

    In theory, a mythal could be built in the present-day - with the knowledge and the resources, at least.

    The Silverymoon Wards mythal, for example, was created over a century after the fall of Myth Drannor.

    Quote Originally Posted by gkathellar View Post
    On that note: could Shar theoretically allow a Wizard to create a mythal with the shadow weave?
    Seems plausible. And a shadow weave wizard (Galaeron Nihmehu) was able to contribute to the spell restoring the damaged Evereska mythal, in book 3 of the Summoning trilogy by Troy Denning.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by gkathellar View Post
    The big thing about mythals is that they were doable for a while in FR's history, but are now, IIRC, on Mystra's ban list because of shenanigans.
    Actually, they can be created using epic magic, which Mystra's ban specifically does not cover.

    On that note: could Shar theoretically allow a Wizard to create a mythal with the shadow weave?
    Yes; it should be noted, however, that a Shadow Weave mythal will be very slightly weaker than a normal one. As well, making an anchored Shadow Weave mythal may be inadvisable considering the clandestine and furtive nature of Shar's alternate magic source and the active efforts of Mystra's faithful to undermine and weaken it.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    I'm so glad to see this has returned, this has provided some amazing reading material.

    I'm finally getting the chance to run a planescape campaign, and I've figured out how I'm going to do it.

    My current Pathfinder party (in a universe with the standard Great Wheel, which I prefer) was in the prime, then Ravenloft for story reasons. Originally I had planned for them to stay there, but the party and I are growing burned out on Ravenloft, which has given me the idea for changing it to a Planescape game.

    I've come up with a portal they're going to find, a one-way portal to Sigil that leads to a dark alley called Wickway, which is a place I've homebrewed for the lower ward where some go to place a candle if someone they know has stumbled into Ravenloft, never to return. The candles never go out, and there always seems to be space for one more candle.

    That aside, what do you think is the best way to introduce the party to sigil, especially if they're the type who prefer role-playing and exploration to brutal combat? I've planned for them to meet an excommunicated Githzerai monk near Wickway, who could serve as a guide of sorts, or at the very least a glimpse at what some people are like in the planes. Beyond that, I'm just seeing too much cool stuff to nail down a proper introduction.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    so which exemplars, have the ability to revive the dead? I am told it's s restricted ability among the archeons. what other races have that power and possible restrictions on it's use?

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    I'm trying to gain a better understanding of plane-scape, and I was hoping you'd be willing to round-out my picture:

    The planescape setting includes all the different D&D setting worlds from Athas to Kyrnn; each in their own Crystal Sphere floating through the Phlogiston. They all "share" the same outer/inner/transitive planes. Magic, physics and everything else within a crystal sphere works the way that sphere's over-deity wants it to, with regular deities holding some sway over whatever their portfolio is (e.g. Mystra deciding how magic works on Faerun), but ultimately the overdeity can redefine the rules as it sees fit.

    My first question is whether you'd be willing to give an overview of the most signifificant differences in the known sphere's inner workings, and how they affect non-natives who visit from other planes/spheres? I imagine Athas is a rather significant "planar oddity", with its "tight borders" seriously messed up magic system, but things like the existence/function of the weave on Faerun could also have some rather significant impacts?

    Relating to that, I was wondering to what degree mortals native to a certain sphere are tied to it. Is there anything preventing a mortal from using basic planar-travel magics to jump from sphere A to B? Addendum to that, is there a rule against direct portals linking spheres to each other? And lastly, does anything weird happen to your soul if you die on a foreign sphere where your God doesn't exist?

    Then in regards to the map of the spheres, races like the Illithids, Neogi and Clockwork Horros make it their business to go around conquering spheres; while extraplanar powers like Lolth have been known to draw entire worlds into their off-plane domains after conquering. Is there a any indication of what the "sphere's conquered scorecard" looks like for these guys? Also, what's the reason why the overdeities of individual spheres let this stuff slide?

    Finally, do you have a favorite crystal sphere?
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Jowgen View Post
    The planescape setting includes all the different D&D setting worlds from Athas to Kyrnn; each in their own Crystal Sphere floating through the Phlogiston. They all "share" the same outer/inner/transitive planes. Magic, physics and everything else within a crystal sphere works the way that sphere's over-deity wants it to, with regular deities holding some sway over whatever their portfolio is (e.g. Mystra deciding how magic works on Faerun), but ultimately the overdeity can redefine the rules as it sees fit.
    Overdeities are less about the way magic and science works and more about the way divine things work. They can throw out a deity, impose restrictions on them or even make things easier for them. For example, before the time of troubles Ao allowed his "tenants" to gain power from lip service in addition to true faith. Additonally, not every crystal sphere has an overdeity, but you as a mortal will never know which is which, because of the tendence of overdeities to pull the strings behind the scenes and to never act overt. (The time of troubles being the great exception and even then, knowledge about Ao is being forgotten at an unusal speed.)

    My first question is whether you'd be willing to give an overview of the most signifificant differences in the known sphere's inner workings, and how they affect non-natives who visit from other planes/spheres? I imagine Athas is a rather significant "planar oddity", with its "tight borders" seriously messed up magic system, but things like the existence/function of the weave on Faerun could also have some rather significant impacts?
    Similar questions have been asked in earlier threads and the answer usually boils down to "the deities of a sphere usually do their best to ensure that sphere travellers aren't inconvenienced by different laws of magic." For example, the same gestures a Realms arcanist uses for casting will work to access the magic of Oerth and the other way round. It's some kind of common courtesy for deities of magic: I don't screw with your servants on my world, you don't screw with my servants on your world.

    Is there anything preventing a mortal from using basic planar-travel magics to jump from sphere A to B? Addendum to that, is there a rule against direct portals linking spheres to each other?
    The Phlogiston blocks any kind of planar access. If you want to hop from sphere to sphere with "Planeshift", you need to make a detour over a different plane.

    And lastly, does anything weird happen to your soul if you die on a foreign sphere where your God doesn't exist?
    Unless the sphere does keep you from going to the afterlife in general (looking at you, Athas), then nope.

    Also, what's the reason why the overdeities of individual spheres let this stuff slide?
    Overdeities work in mysterious ways.
    But seriously, with the exception of Lolth I'm not quite sure why an overdeity would care. And Lolth's "score", as you call it, isn't that great (and only includes single planets. no known force can affect crystal spheres besides opening gates into and out of them).

    So, everything looks in order. I await the verdict.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Thanks for the reply and the ideas earlier!

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Actually, they can be created using epic magic, which Mystra's ban specifically does not cover.

    Yes; it should be noted, however, that a Shadow Weave mythal will be very slightly weaker than a normal one. As well, making an anchored Shadow Weave mythal may be inadvisable considering the clandestine and furtive nature of Shar's alternate magic source and the active efforts of Mystra's faithful to undermine and weaken it.
    If I'm remembering correctly, I think the mythals that preceded Myth Drannor were all created using Elven High Magic, with that last one made using a mixture of High Magic and arcane magic. High magic was a... I think it was a gift to worthy elves or to the elves as a whole from the Seldarine.

    How does Elven High Magic stack up against Epic magic? Was it divine or arcane in nature, and why did the Seldarine have access to it in the first place? Is it something that is even still around in 3.5? I think they hinted about that in 'The Last Mythal' novel series, at least showing that the timeline was unbroken for that kind of elven lore, although I think the series was more concerned about portals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tzardok View Post
    The Phlogiston blocks any kind of planar access. If you want to hop from sphere to sphere with "Planeshift", you need to make a detour over a different plane.
    Speaking of portals, that's exactly how they operate, at least in 3.5, by connecting through the astral... as a teleport spell, but one that can reach other planes anyway.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by inuyasha View Post
    That aside, what do you think is the best way to introduce the party to sigil, especially if they're the type who prefer role-playing and exploration to brutal combat?
    Emerging into something like the Hive Ward, where it's still broadly similar to the slums of a Material Plane city, only to see some strange and bizarre extraplanar beast... chatting gamely with an elf and a dwarf. Running into factions, philosophy, seeing someone vanish through an archway and nobody around bats an eye... Mainly it's what not to do: no Lady of Pain. She really shouldn't appear at all; I'd even omit her from dialogue unless it's for some reason necessary, as it may be misintepreted.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeyTheNeko View Post
    so which exemplars, have the ability to revive the dead?
    Anyone with wish as a spell-like ability, owl archons, throne archons, ghaele eladrin, various modron hierarchs... if it's in their statblock, they possess the capacity to do so. Most of them won't without some particular reason, of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jowgen View Post
    The planescape setting includes all the different D&D setting worlds from Athas to Kyrnn; each in their own Crystal Sphere floating through the Phlogiston. They all "share" the same outer/inner/transitive planes. Magic, physics and everything else within a crystal sphere works the way that sphere's over-deity wants it to, with regular deities holding some sway over whatever their portfolio is (e.g. Mystra deciding how magic works on Faerun), but ultimately the overdeity can redefine the rules as it sees fit.
    So far so good.

    My first question is whether you'd be willing to give an overview of the most signifificant differences in the known sphere's inner workings, and how they affect non-natives who visit from other planes/spheres?
    That's a rather involved question; look to any particular campaign setting, and you'll see a lot of different particulars tied to it. Athas, as you noted, is an obvious example - normal magic does not function without tapping into lifeforce to power it (defiling). Krynnspace is a sphere in which psionics do not function. For the most part, sphere to sphere there won't be vast differences. Is there anything specific you were looking for?

    Is there anything preventing a mortal from using basic planar-travel magics to jump from sphere A to B?
    Not particularly.

    Addendum to that, is there a rule against direct portals linking spheres to each other?
    A rule? No, but many gods and pantheons do not like that kind of thing. Consider how uncommon portals between the Prime and the planes are.

    And lastly, does anything weird happen to your soul if you die on a foreign sphere where your God doesn't exist?
    As long as it has regular Astral links, no. So maybe don't travel to Athas.

    Then in regards to the map of the spheres, races like the Illithids, Neogi and Clockwork Horros make it their business to go around conquering spheres; while extraplanar powers like Lolth have been known to draw entire worlds into their off-plane domains after conquering. Is there a any indication of what the "sphere's conquered scorecard" looks like for these guys?
    Numerically, no, but you can see regions of the map where their presence is, shall we say, suggestive.

    Also, what's the reason why the overdeities of individual spheres let this stuff slide?
    Why wouldn't they? Assuming that particular sphere has an overdeity; we have no proof that one exists for every sphere, or even for the majority, only vague assumptions.

    Finally, do you have a favorite crystal sphere?
    Nope.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronk View Post
    Thanks for the reply and the ideas earlier!
    No problem.

    How does Elven High Magic stack up against Epic magic?
    They appear to be one and the same.

    Was it divine or arcane in nature
    As described, arcane, with some qualities and concerns normally associated with the divine (healing, restoration of nature) possible.

    and why did the Seldarine have access to it in the first place?
    Why not? It's a form of magic, and their pantheon is one heavily tied to magic and the magical arts.

    Is it something that is even still around in 3.5?
    Epic spellcasting, yes.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    That's a rather involved question; look to any particular campaign setting, and you'll see a lot of different particulars tied to it. Athas, as you noted, is an obvious example - normal magic does not function without tapping into lifeforce to power it (defiling). Krynnspace is a sphere in which psionics do not function. For the most part, sphere to sphere there won't be vast differences. Is there anything specific you were looking for?
    I suppose my aim is to get an idea of the spectrum of possible "settings" a given crystal sphere can have, including any parameters that are just hard-wired. Basically stuff of the "could Ao create a stone so heavy even they couldn't lift it?" variety.

    My thoughts at this point are that overdeities may have massive sandbox-creation options in their spheres, but they can't make stuff that couldn't possible exist on the other planes. There needs to be at least basic compatibility, as to avoid a massive far-realm-esque "glitch" when something leaves the sphere. So, the possible range of things that can "be" in a sphere is limited by the existing range of what exists on the outer/inner/transitive planes. For example, Kyrnn can take away the basis for psionics, but if the basis for psionics didn't exist on another plane first then it couldn't just whip them up.

    Another possible limitation that I'm not too sure about is that any given sphere should need to adhere to certain balance of basic building-blocks (e.g. alignments, elements, etc.). This is based on my very limited understanding of the rule that any large locald that becomes too strongly aligned "falls" into the plane matching that alignment. For example, if an overdeity creates it's sphere in the exact image of baator or the NEP, then the worlds within that sphere would just slip right into those planes. Please correct me here.

    Lastly, my theory is that a) the exact nature of these universal constants/parameters is what the Catalogues of Enlightenment on Mechanus are working towards ultimately uncovering, and b) the "control panel" or BIOS for them exists within Sigil; which is exactly what Vecna tried to high-jack in his big stunt. On that last one, I'd possibly even speculate that the Serpent has some sort of connection to the "master control panel", which is how it knew about it and was able to impart the knowledge of how to hack it onto Vecna.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Jowgen View Post
    I suppose my aim is to get an idea of the spectrum of possible "settings" a given crystal sphere can have
    Look through published settings.

    Another possible limitation that I'm not too sure about is that any given sphere should need to adhere to certain balance of basic building-blocks (e.g. alignments, elements, etc.). This is based on my very limited understanding of the rule that any large locald that becomes too strongly aligned "falls" into the plane matching that alignment.
    That's wrong. Unless there's some very powerful open connection nearby already and it's not particularly stable, that can't happen. It happens to the gate-towns of the Outlands because they're part of a system of belief and anchored to massive, permanent portals. The Prime is nowhere near that volatile.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    I posed these questions to the board last year when there was not an active afroakuma thread, and would like your insights, if possible.

    First:
    I read constantly (in 3e Manual of the Planes, 2e Planescape material) that when the clashing cubes of Acheron collide, it seems that the cubes collide flat-face to flat-face, destroying EVERYTHING on the overlapping flat faces of the cubes. There is one indication of such in the 3.0 Manual of the Planes (quoted below), but there are many more inferences to it in the 2e Planescape material as well. Still, it is never stated flat out, as I just did in this paragraph. (Though see the quote about Clangor and Nishrek, which also alludes to it).

    Quote Originally Posted by MotP, 3.0, p. 124 pp
    The cubes that make up each of the four layers of Acheron are pitted and scarred with cracks and dents from their many collisions and craters from their many battles. On the orderly plane of Acheron, the cubes always rust or fracture along straight lines and at right angles.
    ...
    The cubes vary [in size]. The smallest cubes are usually the oldest, having been reduced to their present size by eons of collisions.
    ...
    Travelers in Avalas and Thuldanin must be wary of collisions between the cubes, because everything between the two cubes at impact is crushed into nothingness. Cubes bound for collision are visible a day or two in advance of impact, providing enough warning for evacuation.
    Are collisions between cubes only ever face-to-face? And as such, any craters would be square and flat-bottomed?

    Or can a corner collide with a cube-face, creating a triangular crater with three sloping crater-faces leading down to an inverted "point" at the bottom of the crater?

    Second:
    The 3.0 MotP has some entries about Clangor and Nishrek, housing the ever-warring goblin and orc armies, as well as the goblin deity Maglubiyet, and the Orc pantheon, including Gruumsh. It also has this side-bar, discussing how (in 2e) the two realms were opposite faces of the same cube, but are no longer:

    The realms of Clangor and Nishrek were once a single cube, but the opposing deities of each realm finally managed to separate their realms into two wholly separate cubes. Though they are separated, enmity between the goblins of Clangor and the orcs of Nishrek is still great. Though the rival deities can prevent an entire cube face from being crushed by an opposing cube sent hurling through the void, that doesn’t stop either side from trying. Most battles are now fought when one side manages to land an invasion force on an opposing cube.
    Combining this information with that from the earlier quotes, discussing the cubes always fracturing in straight lines at right angles, and seemingly as perfect cubes* (as it mentions the smallest cubes are the oldest, having been fractured many times over the eons), how can a formerly-single cube have fractured into two cubes? It could have fractured into two "flattened" "cubes" (basically 3-dimentional "rectangles"), but that seems to conflict with the fact that, at least in the first layer of Acheron, all the "cubes" actually ARE cubes* (get to the third layer of Acheron, and other shapes exist in number). Thus, when a large cube fractures, it must fracture into 8 smaller cubes (or smaller - think Rubix Cube breaking apart).

    So, how would you rectify this information? Formerly a single cube, but now two "cubes?"

    There are two possible answers. The two realms of Clangor and Nishrek were not actually on opposing faces, but were on opposing corners, and when the cube was divided, it became 8 smaller cubes, with Clangor inhabiting one of the 8, and Nishrek another of the 8. The other six sections have floated off to wherever else in the plane.

    The other option is that the two realms really were on opposite faces, and when the cube broke, each deity/race took control of up to 4 of them. I envision this as the goblins holding 4 cubes, which are tethered together, in a loose arrangement, almost like ice cubes oriented but separated in an ice tray, with chains and bridges connecting them, and preventing them from drifting apart. Almost like tethering four rafts or innertubes together for a lazy float trip

    Thoughts?

    *
    Quote Originally Posted by MotP, p. 125, first line
    * Geometric shapes other than cubes exist, though they are rare (except on Tintibulus, the third layer).
    Lastly, the portal from Rigus the PC's are expected to use to arrive in Acheron in Lord of the Iron Fortress is supposed to deposit them on the "Battle Cube." Reading through 2e material, I see that this was the name of the cube which contained Clangor and Nishrek. Also, any portals on that cube are supposed to be "heavily guarded."

    Which force should be lucky enough to now control the portal, the goblins, or the orcs?
    And how "heavily guarded" should it be when 15th level PC's pop through from Rigus?

  25. - Top - End - #115
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by ksbsnowowl View Post
    Combining this information with that from the earlier quotes, discussing the cubes always fracturing in straight lines at right angles, and seemingly as perfect cubes* (as it mentions the smallest cubes are the oldest, having been fractured many times over the eons), how can a formerly-single cube have fractured into two cubes? It could have fractured into two "flattened" "cubes" (basically 3-dimentional "rectangles"), but that seems to conflict with the fact that, at least in the first layer of Acheron, all the "cubes" actually ARE cubes* (get to the third layer of Acheron, and other shapes exist in number). Thus, when a large cube fractures, it must fracture into 8 smaller cubes (or smaller - think Rubix Cube breaking apart).

    So, how would you rectify this information? Formerly a single cube, but now two "cubes?"

    There are two possible answers. The two realms of Clangor and Nishrek were not actually on opposing faces, but were on opposing corners, and when the cube was divided, it became 8 smaller cubes, with Clangor inhabiting one of the 8, and Nishrek another of the 8. The other six sections have floated off to wherever else in the plane.

    The other option is that the two realms really were on opposite faces, and when the cube broke, each deity/race took control of up to 4 of them. I envision this as the goblins holding 4 cubes, which are tethered together, in a loose arrangement, almost like ice cubes oriented but separated in an ice tray, with chains and bridges connecting them, and preventing them from drifting apart. Almost like tethering four rafts or innertubes together for a lazy float trip

    Thoughts?
    To answer this question let me quote Afro from the 6th thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    As noted above, it's a property of the Outer Planes that gross distances don't really matter. Let's assume for the sake of argument that the distance between the Spire and the Hinterlands is 5 miles in every direction. Mathematically speaking, we should expect the habitable area of the Outlands to be, at maximum, 78.54 square miles. But on the books we have... what's this? 150 square miles of documented locations! And what's that place on the horizon that doesn't look like anything on record...?

    The Outer Planes are realms of belief; they don't conform to any need for fixed areas to exist. While certain spatial relationships are more stable than others, it's far more likely that on the Outer Planes the distance between Strangeland and Otherplace is literally "two days' travel" than that it is any fixed distance in miles or kilometres or linear tessipates or foot-cubits. While there is a fixed distance between the gate-towns and the Spire or the gate-towns and the Hinterlands, all that area in between is whatever it needs to be for whoever is traveling.
    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Some few gods do in fact live on private little islands in the void, but the vast majority reside on one of the mounts. While the land has an "edge," it is still a component of an infinite plane; Khalas, Chamada, Mungoth and Krangath are all circumferentially infinite, so it's not really all that crowded. How does that even work? Outer Planes.
    Acheron works the same way. Yes, the cube broke in two. Now you have two cubes with halve the volume... or halve the surface area... or maybe even two cubes as big the cube before. Heck, maybe the cubes are now bigger than before! How does it work? Outer Planes.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    What major planar figure or power would most be inconvenienced or get most enraged by suddenly having an absolutely absurdly large amount of Kender dumped on top of them or popping out of the woodwork in their base of operations?
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    All of them?

    Let's see. Kender are chaotic, so I'd guess someone lawful. Asmodeus would certainly hate it. As would, I imagine, Primus. Zaphkiel... he's on the highest layer of Celestia, so who knows.

    They also steal, so someone greedy, with a lot of wealth. A dragon god, maybe, or Hades. I can't off-hand think of a lawful god of wealth or trade.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by ksbsnowowl View Post
    Are collisions between cubes only ever face-to-face? And as such, any craters would be square and flat-bottomed?
    I'm not aware offhand of anything that strictly indicates cubes must collide face-to-face; I would imagine that some amount of angular collisions do happen, since smaller cubes could conceivably gain spin for a time from a particularly powerful blow. Craters aren't necessarily perfect squares, since it would depend on structural integrity on the contact faces - an undermined section of face may collapse when smashed, for example.

    Combining this information with that from the earlier quotes, discussing the cubes always fracturing in straight lines at right angles, and seemingly as perfect cubes* (as it mentions the smallest cubes are the oldest, having been fractured many times over the eons), how can a formerly-single cube have fractured into two cubes?
    Outer Planes.

    To be specific, "cube" is a general term for Acheron's metal skybergs, no matter what their configuration. There are rectangular prism "cubes" out there in the void. Over time, "cubes" on Avalas and Thuldanin trend toward becoming actual cubes, whether helped along by a local pantheon or just split over and over by collisions. There is a certain order to Acheron, after all, a pattern and rhythm seated in its lawful nature. It shouldn't be surprising that the plane can auto-correct. At least at the highest layer. Thuldanin is crumbly, Tintibulus is bizarre, and Ocanthus is a frozen hellscape in a vast black void.

    Lastly, the portal from Rigus the PC's are expected to use to arrive in Acheron in Lord of the Iron Fortress is supposed to deposit them on the "Battle Cube." Reading through 2e material, I see that this was the name of the cube which contained Clangor and Nishrek. Also, any portals on that cube are supposed to be "heavily guarded."
    As Clangor and Nishrek are now on independent cubes, the current Battle Cube is likely a new destination for the gate, a third cube that the goblins and orcs fight over. As such, either force (or both) could have guards near the gate - or they may deem it a strategic hazard not worth planning around and have oriented their battle to avoid it. Up to you.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    The Epic Level Handbook describes an epic-level assassin organization, the Garotte. Their unique shtick is that their clients do not come back (except presumably if they have a stasis clone or equivalent contingent magic acting immediately upon their demise), which they guarantee through the use of the cape of their leader, the leShay Anifer Unglum. That cape can dispatch bodies to “a void dimension”, putting them “beyond even the recall of greater gods”.

    Is this void dimension real (i.e., does it exist in afrocanon) or is it just made up by the ELH writers to give the Garotte something that allows them to pass as “epic”?

    If it is real, is anything else known about it (or can be speculated)?

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    So, once again I'm here to disrupt the serenity of a thread with Eberron/Planescape questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by gkathellar View Post
    If enough people started worshipping a dead power, would the dead power be revived? Would a totally new one emerge?
    You answered yes to this. My question is then something to the effect of "what if their body was destroyed by other Gods and so you actually have chunks of this deity's body floating around?" Or, put another way, is there any way to kill a God so they can't come back in this way? Could an overdeity do so?

    Next up, let's say that the Gods of a particular sphere are sort of locked out of the rest of the multiverse. And then let's say something changes and this pantheon suddenly appears. That wouldn't make too much of an impact, right? They're limited to a single sphere in this description, so can't be super powerful.

    On a related note, how would many of the major players deal with the sudden appearance of extraplanar oddities from Eberron not otherwise present, such as Quori or Daelkyr? While comparatively small in number to Devils etc, they're not exactly weak either, so may be seen as possible threats in the future if not now, I dunno.

    Similarly, how to place Daelkyr into things? Far Realm I'd assume.

    And finally Baker has said that Overlords are in a sense anthropomorphic personifications of the things they represent to a certain extent. So Katashka embodies the fear of death, etc. He's also stated that it's at least in theory possible to usurp them and replace them by other incarnate spirits. Would then the Overlords be similar in kind to Exemplars? And if they were released from prison not just in shardspace but over all of the multiverse what sort of ramifications might these beings have?

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