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  1. - Top - End - #121
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Hey afroakuma, its good to see you're still able to post here. I've searched all previous threads for "creche," but found no hits.

    Is there any additional information about the creche-forges of Mechanus? Like their process for making or controlling inevitables or know even how the Hub of Elders keeps tabs on inevitables to know when to make a new version? There seems to be very little information on them. Any extra sources anyone has beyond MotP129, EE86 & that dragon magazine with the ecology of the inevitables would be appreciated.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by VisitingDaGulag View Post
    Hey afroakuma, its good to see you're still able to post here. I've searched all previous threads for "creche," but found no hits.

    Is there any additional information about the creche-forges of Mechanus? Like their process for making or controlling inevitables or know even how the Hub of Elders keeps tabs on inevitables to know when to make a new version? There seems to be very little information on them. Any extra sources anyone has beyond MotP129, EE86 & that dragon magazine with the ecology of the inevitables would be appreciated.
    Here's some relevant homebrew, though I'm sure you want more.
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  3. - Top - End - #123
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Evolved Shrimp View Post
    Is this void dimension real (i.e., does it exist in afrocanon) or is it just made up by the ELH writers to give the Garotte something that allows them to pass as “epic”?
    It's kind of silly, since the description suggests a portal of some sort, and therefore a theoretical destination one could probe. Notwithstanding that, there would still be ways for the truly dedicated to undo the deed (time travel, as risky as it is, immediately springs to mind). The pitch of an assassins' guild that has a totally permanent 100% ultimate doom weapon at their disposal and counts "lesser gods" among their targets (per the book itself) while also keeping ties with major religions... I mean, come on, the gods are not going to sit still for that sort of nonsense, let alone for it to grow into a body 5500 strong and counting.

    Tl;dr you wanted my personal opinion? In my opinion, it's very stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by atnorman View Post
    So, once again I'm here to disrupt the serenity of a thread with Eberron/Planescape questions.
    Right, because I have so much serenity to spare.

    My question is then something to the effect of "what if their body was destroyed by other Gods and so you actually have chunks of this deity's body floating around?"
    Well, living deities aren't supposed to trespass among the dead ones; Guardian's rules. Regardless, Not relevant.

    Or, put another way, is there any way to kill a God so they can't come back in this way?
    Ech... depends on what we mean by "come back." Worship and belief can, at a certain scale, create a reasonable facsimile wholecloth. If you don't want a god to come back, generally speaking, the most important step is erasing their worship, or else causing it to be diverted (the Shar Special). There has been a recorded way to kill gods Very Dead Indeed, though we've seen at least one entity murdered in this fashion continue to exist as a vestige, and no particular evidence to say that those gods couldn't also come back.

    Let's look elsewhere, then... the One in the Void was having the divine essence within its corpse pillaged over a vast timespan; arguably that would count, though it should be noted that no record exists of the One in the Void continuing to receive even liminal worship. Under these circumstances... well, it's the kind of thing where I think the door is conceivably left open for some method, complicated though it would be, but certainly nothing convenient.

    Could an overdeity do so?
    We've never seen an overdeity do anything of the kind, and what limited documentation exists on their actions and role suggests their mandate involves not doing so. Especially given multi-sphere powers exist; it wouldn't make sense for Ao to be able to kill Tyr and have him deleted from the Asgardian pantheon at the same time.

    Next up, let's say that the Gods of a particular sphere are sort of locked out of the rest of the multiverse. And then let's say something changes and this pantheon suddenly appears. That wouldn't make too much of an impact, right? They're limited to a single sphere in this description, so can't be super powerful.
    They're a whole faction of new and internally-ordered players who have just appeared on the cosmic stage; it will be noted, and they'll be approached and asked to make the usual agreements between the pantheons - no rampant targeting of other gods' priests, no claiming of the unborn, etc. etc. see earlier threads.

    On a related note, how would many of the major players deal with the sudden appearance of extraplanar oddities from Eberron not otherwise present, such as Quori or Daelkyr?
    I'd imagine Quori or something like them already exist via the Region of Dreams and various other observed phenomena - Demiplane of Nightmares, for example. If we assume daelkyr are Far Realm creatures, then a significant incursion by them would twig whatever local high muckymucks need to pay attention to such things, but the Far Realm doesn't care for the Great Wheel any more than the Great Wheel cares for the Far Realm.

    Quote Originally Posted by VisitingDaGulag View Post
    Hey afroakuma, its good to see you're still able to post here.
    Why wouldn't I be?

    I've searched all previous threads for "creche," but found no hits.
    Did you put the little hat on it?

    Any extra sources anyone has beyond MotP129, EE86 & that dragon magazine with the ecology of the inevitables would be appreciated.
    Fiend Folio has the other two worth mentioning, and there may be something in the Planar Handbook that I'm not remembering (it's very late), but I'm afraid by and large what you've got is what there is. I may do a proper check later in the week if I can remember.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Photobucket taking away Afro's avatar is incredibly distracting and disorienting. Saw someone answering Q's without the avi, and was like, "hey, this is AFROAKUMA'S Planar Questions thread."
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Tl;dr you wanted my personal opinion? In my opinion, it's very stupid.
    I suspected as much – thanks for explaining the issues with the concept.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    So it looks like I'll be away for the next several days. Feel free to keep the thread alive for discussion, or let it sink if no one's interested.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Hey all,

    I asked a quick question over here, and unseenmage suggested that I consult the wisdom of this board. Any suggestions you might have would be appreciated!

  8. - Top - End - #128
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Woah, how did I miss this return?! Glad to see a return, I'll try to avoid smite-worthy questions

    Has there been more formal exploration of the owners of the Barrier Peaks ship?

    If I were trying to line up Immortals with the more traditional view of Powers (a bad idea already I know), would AO line up as a Hierarch, or something even higher on the Divine-Totem Pole?

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Naanomi View Post
    If I were trying to line up Immortals with the more traditional view of Powers (a bad idea already I know), would AO line up as a Hierarch, or something even higher on the Divine-Totem Pole?
    IMO the over-deities have to be a lot higher than a Hierach. The Hierach Immortals and simply the top end of the Immortals power scale, they don't get any special abilities - they just have more power and experience than their fellows. Now consider what we know of AO, in the Time of Troubles he is able to kick all of the deities out of their home planes and onto Toril, stripping them of most of their capabilities in the process; now regardless of how much work and pre-planning it took to do this, that's not something within the capabilities of any other deity (nor for that matter can a hierach evict an immortal from it's home plane going by Mystara rules). To do this any other deity/immortal would somehow trick/lure them out of their own planes or individually enter each plane and use brute force. In Mystaran terms I would say that Ao is a better match for an Great Old One, but it's a very different structure of Great Old Ones than the glimpses we get of the Mystaran set-up (e.g. one GOO/OD per Crystal Sphere with responsibility for encouranging the growth - spiritual as well as physical - of the deities of their worlds).
    Also, Ao altered the underlying principles by which deities (immortals) operate within Realmspace - their power is now directly tied to their worhsippers; if Ao was just a more powerful immortal (deity) this would affect him too, which, even though he now does accept a few worshippers, it would cripple his own power-base (as the one thing the deities don't do is worship him).

    OK all that said, here's a counter-position. Yes Ao is basically a more powerful deity (i.e. hierarch immortal), however he has been granted extra abilities by the one he serves/worships (akin to mortal clerics and spells etc.).

  10. - Top - End - #130
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Well, if nobody is going to ask something, I'm going to do it.

    Can somebody explain Temporal Prime to me? The only thing I know is "It's some 'place' where you can see the personal time lines of things and which you can use to time travel. And Chronomancers use it." I am looking for something a little bit more detailed.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    If you can find it, you want the 0ld 2E book: Chronmancer. It should be easy enough to find on sites like EBay.

    The basic way it handles time travel is that it involves moving to the demi-plane of time (which looks a bit like the astral plane, but contains lots of lifelines all going in the same direction), travelling upstream or downstream in it, and then returning to the prime plane at your new position. This means you can travel to the past or future.

    The writers don't seem to have gone into the ramifications of time travel too deeply, so if you're looking for complex what-if scenarios to be answered then you'll have to make it up yourself. What they do say is:

    *Altering the past causes the lifelines at that point to become turbulent as they rearrange themselves into a new future - which takes "time" to happen. During this time, other time travellers can see the turbulence and turn up to see what is causing it. So unless it's only a minor change you can expect lots of other interested parties (including big powerful NPCs or even gods of course) to show up and fight you for it if they care about the change you're making.

    *History changes always rearrange themselves to cause minimal change. So killing Hitler doesn't stop World War 2; it just means someone else is in charge of the Nazis.

    *There can't ever be more than one of you in existence at the same time. So you're limited to travelling to the future or before your birth. If you travel to the near future and back (e.g. a week ahead), you'd better make sure you then skip that part of the future instead of trying to also live through it the slow way or you'll get kicked out into the demi-plane of time when you approach that period. This stops most short term shenanigans. Trying to deliberately make paradoxes form has a similar effect.

    *Trying to make small changes that have a big future effect (e.g. going back in time and leaving a message for your future self, which has an insignificant change at the point you do it - the mere presence of the message doesn't change much - but which will change the future when you receive the message in a big way) is possible, but the inertia mentioned in point 2 will almost certainly minimise the change by contriving to get the message lost before you receive it.



    As you can see, despite being a time travel supplement it's pretty much designed to minimise (or allow the DM to minimise) the amount of things you can actually achieve using time travel. You can't do anything short term because of the limits about being in two places at once, and you can't do anything significant long term either because either the universe or some NPC will minimise/undo it.

    The book also contains a "Chronomancer" class, who is a spell caster that has lots of time related spells (including the ones to let them travel to the demi-plane of time and back), and to be honest these specific spells which do specific but small scale time related things are more useful and interesting than the blunt-instrument of time travel itself.

    And, of course, there's an NPC organisation devoted to looking after the timestream and stopping people from messing it up, and the obligatory time related monsters.

    There's also a big DM section about the future in D&D settings discussing different types of future from stagnant ones to technologically developed ones to magi-tech ones.

    All in all, it's okay

  12. - Top - End - #132
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    I just thought of another question that may come up soon.

    For most classes, it's pretty easy to see why they'd travel the planes, clerics and paladins spread their faith, rangers get to hunt exotic creatures, fighters get to... fight, etc. but is there any Planescape material addressing why druids would travel the planes? Do druid powers function properly in the bizarre landscape of Limbo, or are they superpowered since the entire world is a chaotic soup of natural elements? What about the horrifying layers of the abyss, can a druid even commune with the local fauna and flora there?
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by inuyasha View Post
    I just thought of another question that may come up soon.

    For most classes, it's pretty easy to see why they'd travel the planes, clerics and paladins spread their faith, rangers get to hunt exotic creatures, fighters get to... fight, etc. but is there any Planescape material addressing why druids would travel the planes? Do druid powers function properly in the bizarre landscape of Limbo, or are they superpowered since the entire world is a chaotic soup of natural elements? What about the horrifying layers of the abyss, can a druid even commune with the local fauna and flora there?
    Well, 2E Planescape did not have druids, of course.

    Though after 3X druids can travel the planes for the same reasons as others like adventure and treasure seeking. Druids are quite at home in the Elemental planes, naturally. The other planes do contain a mix of normal animals/plants and more magical not animals/plants, so a druid will still find some use for some powers. Though the high the level the druid, the better off they are for plane hopping.

    The vast majority of the druids magic and spells is well suited for planual travel as they have lots of ways to protect, survive and thrive in any environment.

    And note the Outer Planes are full of Nature too. The Beastlands are the obvious example, but also Aboera and a couple other places..

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    There is also some discussion of Druids in the Planes that is essentially an 'a place for everything and everything in its place' mentality... the Abyss is natural for the Abyss, the Shadow Plane is natural for the Shadow Plane, The Prime is natural for the Prime... and that Druids with a Planar perspective work to keep the Planes according to their nature (with a natural amount of crossover of course); so that you might have a Druid very angry at the Good Orphanage you somehow established on Carceri or the like

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    I think there was a prestige class for druids with that kind of mentality (or a similar one)... planar shepherd or something like that.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Thanks for the answer, guys! I've got a campaign that's gonna head into planescape stuff the next time we meet up, and many of my players are very into druidic stuff, so this'll be important.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Postmodernist View Post
    Hey all,

    I asked a quick question over here, and unseenmage suggested that I consult the wisdom of this board. Any suggestions you might have would be appreciated!
    Sorry I missed that, I have been out for a while. Let me know if you still need help with it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Naanomi View Post
    Woah, how did I miss this return?!
    I am a very stealthy Dark Lord.

    Has there been more formal exploration of the owners of the Barrier Peaks ship?
    "Formal?" Very no. You can of course go look into Metamorphosis Alpha, the direct inspiration, but that is not a D&D product. I seem to remember allusions to it originating from this or that old D&D setting, but nothing is cropping up on cursory searches.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Ultron View Post
    All in all, it's okay
    Yeah, the unfortunate-but-necessary fact about a product like that is that it was always going to have to defer sizeably to "DM's preference." As a DM I'd have appreciated more guidelines on structuring altered timelines, but what can one do.

    Quote Originally Posted by inuyasha View Post
    For most classes, it's pretty easy to see why they'd travel the planes, clerics and paladins spread their faith, rangers get to hunt exotic creatures, fighters get to... fight, etc. but is there any Planescape material addressing why druids would travel the planes?
    Planar shepherds, guardians and wardens of the Elemental Planes and their points of contact with the Material Plane, curators of rare plant life seeking needed reagents and soils, warriors of nature hunting down the origins of interloper species from other worlds and learning how to destroy them/heal the natural world of the taint created by contact...

    Do druid powers function properly in the bizarre landscape of Limbo, or are they superpowered since the entire world is a chaotic soup of natural elements?
    Per Manual of the Planes, this is not going to be a particularly exciting answer: They suffer the same wild magic effects as any other spells cast in Limbo, and benefit from the same sporadic elemental-dominant traits as all other magic would.

    What about the horrifying layers of the abyss, can a druid even commune with the local fauna and flora there?
    If it's a plant, then yes. Speak with plants covers plant creatures without regard for their origins.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    An Spelljammer setting's Planar Cleric of Mount Celestia, would be required to take the Mount Celestia's Planar Domain? The Law and Good Domains? The Law, Good, Air and Destruction Domains, like a Trumpet Archon? Or maybe any Domain of any deity from the Mount would do?
    Last edited by Clistenes; 2017-08-13 at 04:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clistenes View Post
    An Spelljammer setting's Planar Cleric of Mount Celestia, would be required to take the Mount Celestia's Planar Domain? The Law and Good Domains? The Law, Good, Air and Destruction Domains, like a Trumpet Archon? Or maybe any Domain of any deity from the Mount would do?
    ...I'm extraordinarily unclear on what's being asked exactly. I need to know where this is from to be able to give an answer.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    ...I'm extraordinarily unclear on what's being asked exactly. I need to know where this is from to be able to give an answer.
    In Spelljammer, a Wildspace cleric can worship a group of gods rather than just one.

    -A Celestial Bureocracy's priest worships the whole Chinese (and/or Japanese, I think) pantheon. Or maybe worships all the gods, believing them to be all part of the pantheon.

    -A Polygot priest priest worships a whole pantheon.

    -A Planar Priest worships all the deities from an entire plane (and the Planar Lords, and the plane itself too, probably...).

    My question was about what domains would be appropiate for a Planar Priest to take, since Spelljammer doesn't have an official 3.5 conversion...
    Last edited by Clistenes; 2017-08-15 at 04:14 AM.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Clistenes View Post
    My question was about what domains would be appropiate for a Planar Priest to take, since Spelljammer doesn't have an official 3.5 conversion...
    I mean, I'd defer to a DM on that front... obviously, it was written in a pre-domain era, but the sense I drew from it last I read it would seem to be that a planar priest's domains would be in something of a state of flux, having to be supplied by a local deity who maintains a realm on the corresponding plane. The easiest way to do it would simply be to have planar priests use both alignment domains where warranted, though of course Elysium, the Outlands, Limbo, Mechanus, and Hades would still be obnoxious outliers. An option for DMs to consider would be selecting "fundamental" domains for those planes to go hand-in-hand with their alignment component, such as Death for Hades and Trickery for Limbo.

    The more eclectic way to do it would be to have a planar priest make contact with an appropriate deity when entering a new sphere, and selecting a pair of that deity's domains for the duration of his or her stay.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    I mean, I'd defer to a DM on that front... obviously, it was written in a pre-domain era, but the sense I drew from it last I read it would seem to be that a planar priest's domains would be in something of a state of flux, having to be supplied by a local deity who maintains a realm on the corresponding plane. The easiest way to do it would simply be to have planar priests use both alignment domains where warranted, though of course Elysium, the Outlands, Limbo, Mechanus, and Hades would still be obnoxious outliers. An option for DMs to consider would be selecting "fundamental" domains for those planes to go hand-in-hand with their alignment component, such as Death for Hades and Trickery for Limbo.

    The more eclectic way to do it would be to have a planar priest make contact with an appropriate deity when entering a new sphere, and selecting a pair of that deity's domains for the duration of his or her stay.
    Mmmm... I guess each plane and layer could have domains associated to their themes... for example Mount Celestia as a whole would have the Law, Good, Mount Celestia and Celestial domains, Lunia could have the Water, Ocean, Purification, Renewal and Repose Domains, Mertion the War, Destruction, Protection and Fire domains, Solania the Sun domain..etc.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Clistenes View Post
    An Spelljammer setting's Planar Cleric of Mount Celestia, would be required to take the Mount Celestia's Planar Domain? The Law and Good Domains? The Law, Good, Air and Destruction Domains, like a Trumpet Archon? Or maybe any Domain of any deity from the Mount would do?
    I'm not sure they would be ''required'' to take anything....but they could.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clistenes View Post

    My question was about what domains would be appropiate for a Planar Priest to take, since Spelljammer doesn't have an official 3.5 conversion...
    2E and 3E clerics are the same with 'clerics of forces or philosophies' . So a 3E cleric that is not devoted to a particular deity, he still selects two domains to represent his spiritual inclinations and abilities. The restriction on alignment domains still applies.

    So the answer is ''any''. A cleric can select an alignment domain (Chaos, Evil, Good, or Law) only if his alignment matches that domain. And that is also true of the Planar Domains.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Somewhere there are Planar Domains. They take up both your normal choices, and have 2 spells per spell level, generally, IIRC.

    Edit: Spell Compendium, p282
    Last edited by Mr Adventurer; 2017-08-17 at 03:47 AM.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Alright, well, this thread got off to a rocky start and has been pretty inert, so... I figure this is last call for questions.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    What, if anything, can PCs do to piss of gods as a group?

    There are probably tons of ways to annoy individual gods by messing with the high priests or stuff that is important to their portfolio, but the only thing I can recall you as mentioning that upsets the entire deisphere seems to be trying to steal unborn souls. (And I’m not sure how a PC would do that – presumably, standing on the town square and shouting “All your future children’s souls are mine!” wouldn’t quite cut it.)

    Are there other things that might be within the powers of PCs and that would aggravate large groups of gods?

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Afro, are you going to change your image hosting for your avatar to one that the rest of us can see?

    More seriously, although I always find your posts interesting, I cannot think of any decent questions right now - dang.
    Last edited by Khedrac; 2017-08-20 at 02:25 PM.

  28. - Top - End - #148
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2013

    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Q for Afro

    Aoskar - or, rather, a 'god of portals' seems like a pretty cool idea. Have I got the timeline right? Aoskar was a power of something else, and tried to claim the portfolio of Portals - but doing so would, in itself, have given him influence over the City of Doors, and the Lady couldn't allow that. Hence his flaying.

    So, are other deities now afraid of attempting to claim that portfolio element?

    What about the existence of the Portal domain (Spell Compendium) - are there gods who claim that domain and does it relate to this history? (Or is it just Bad Writing?)

  29. - Top - End - #149
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Devil

    Join Date
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    Germany

    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Adventurer View Post
    Q for Afro

    Aoskar - or, rather, a 'god of portals' seems like a pretty cool idea. Have I got the timeline right? Aoskar was a power of something else, and tried to claim the portfolio of Portals - but doing so would, in itself, have given him influence over the City of Doors, and the Lady couldn't allow that. Hence his flaying.

    So, are other deities now afraid of attempting to claim that portfolio element?

    What about the existence of the Portal domain (Spell Compendium) - are there gods who claim that domain and does it relate to this history? (Or is it just Bad Writing?)
    Aoskar was the god of portals, he was flayed for claiming that the Lady was an aspect of his. It also only happened when one of the dabus (the one we know now as Fell) became a cleric of his. Besides, there are other deities with portals in their portfolio for whom the portal domain would be fitting, Shaundakul from the Faerûnian pantheon for example.
    Last edited by Tzardok; 2017-08-21 at 07:37 AM.
    Ich erträum' mir ein Gefieder.
    Dieser Zauber hat Bestand.
    Und so flieg' ich immer wieder
    Wie der Nachtwind über's Land.

  30. - Top - End - #150
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2013

    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    I'm obviously misremembering!

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