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  1. - Top - End - #181
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Hi there Afro!

    I haven't ever made a post on your threads, however I do like to read them. Now on the forum the question "How to kill a god" often surfaces. Mostly people give some way to kill the god saying their stats are found in book X and/or making Ice Assassins. Now I always assumed that as soon as stats are used for a god in any way, these are stats for the gods avatar and not the god itself. I mean, I can't fathom that a god actually would be given stats. I mean, no mortal should be even closely capable to kill an actual god without help from another god. Am I correct that these stats are avatars?

    Also I have a question about how someone would become a god. Is it as "easy" as having a number of mortals actualy worship you as a god? For example, if a paladin would be widely known by the population of a country and many flok to worship him. Would that, eventually, be enough to become a god?
    Last edited by Baldin; 2017-09-07 at 08:38 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #182
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Naanomi View Post
    A few threads ago you said you'd share your thoughts on what the 'space' areas far from the spheres of Carceri and volcanoes of Gehenna might contain... care to elaborate now?
    Not just yet, no. I don't have it in me right now to make up a bunch of stuff. Some time in the near future, hopefully, but it's 11 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by inuyasha View Post
    Is there anything stated on the position of Tieflings in the blood war, and what (if involved at all) their station is on either side?
    Tieflings should really know better than to get involved in the Blood War; neither the devils nor the demons have any great need of them unless they happen to be possessed of significant ability beyond their mere birthright - mighty warriors, dreaded sorcerers, etc.

    Beyond that, they're basically humans. Cannon fodder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Adventurer View Post
    What do we know about the fiend previously bound to be Ashardalon's heart?
    Ammet, Eater of Souls, was a powerful balor in service to Demogorgon before being bound to Ashardalon. Much of his personal power was instilled in an artifact called Helltongue, a deadly whip that drinks the souls of those touched by its three lashes. Ammet's nature has been forever warped by his time bound to Ashardalon; if released from his confinement, he possesses the half-dragon template.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baldin View Post
    Now I always assumed that as soon as stats are used for a god in any way, these are stats for the gods avatar and not the god itself. I mean, I can't fathom that a god actually would be given stats. I mean, no mortal should be even closely capable to kill an actual god without help from another god. Am I correct that these stats are avatars?
    No; officially, Deities & Demigods and similar books present stats for the gods themselves. Underwhelming, I know, but that's the kind of thing some people like, so...

    Also I have a question about how someone would become a god. Is it as "easy" as having a number of mortals actualy worship you as a god? For example, if a paladin would be widely known by the population of a country and many flok to worship him. Would that, eventually, be enough to become a god?
    No. Becoming a god is extremely difficult.
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  3. - Top - End - #183
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Ammet, Eater of Souls, was a powerful balor in service to Demogorgon before being bound to Ashardalon. Much of his personal power was instilled in an artifact called Helltongue, a deadly whip that drinks the souls of those touched by its three lashes. Ammet's nature has been forever warped by his time bound to Ashardalon; if released from his confinement, he possesses the half-dragon template.
    Thanks! I'll see if I can find anything more about Ammet and his place in the fiendish hierarchy. Looking at Bastion of Broken Souls, he's powerful enough that an actor like the Cathezar, a unique Marilith, felt he was an alternative liege to Ameul (desperate though she may have been)...

  4. - Top - End - #184
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Adventurer View Post
    Thanks! I'll see if I can find anything more about Ammet and his place in the fiendish hierarchy. Looking at Bastion of Broken Souls, he's powerful enough that an actor like the Cathezar, a unique Marilith, felt he was an alternative liege to Ameul (desperate though she may have been)...
    I'll save you the time: there won't be anything. As for the Cathezar, it's probably a matter of how her current boss is insane and plots against himself, while this guy's loud, proud, and unapologetically violent. Also right here, and she gets to choose to face him, to run off and anger her current boss, or to take on a new boss, so... really, it's just the most practical choice.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Aha, OK, thanks.

    As to the Cathezar's motives - the fact that he's an option at all is still an indicator of his relative pull (or potential pull once he's built it back up after his confinement) in the fiendish hierarchy. I guess, being a Balor rather than a unique demon, he's not at the level of a demon prince, but enough to be notable.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Alright folks, last call for questions. Next time this thread sinks, I'm closing it.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Alright folks, last call for questions. Next time this thread sinks, I'm closing it.
    What might the aftereffects or signs on the Prime (and/or the Astral?) be of a newborn god entering the Planes? To clarify, not the ascension of a formerly mortal deity, but the birth of the child of extant gods, such as Eilistraee.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Please could you elaborate on the ecology and general nature of elementals when upon their respective Inner Planes?
    My understanding is that the statted out forms they take when summoned to the Material Plane aren't reflective of how one might encounter them on their home planes.
    Are they a bit like the semi-tangible "spirits", that Spirit Shamans interact with?
    Last edited by Dalmosh; 2017-09-17 at 04:47 AM.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Has Anubis always been in his role of Divine Corpse-Watcher, or was he a 'normal' God first and got promoted somehow later?

    Does the Temporal Prime predate the current cosmology, or is it part of this creation cycle (presumably among the first parts)?

    In another thread, there is discussion about The One in the Void, and I was surprised to learn that she was a Good Deity (according to Dungeon Magazine adventure path anyways)... I thought she was basically an unknown. Do we know anything else about her of significance?

    The next three are philosophizing here so bear with me...

    Draeden seem to be very compatible with Negative Energy... both are sort of the opposites of matter, life, existence, etc. Meanwhile their opponents ('gods' or dragons or whatever) at the beginning of reality are pretty 'creation/positive energy' focused. Could the prominence of positive and negative energy in the cosmology be echoes of that original existential conflict?

    Aboleth: do they have souls/become petitioners when they die? If so, they'd have been (by far) the first petitioners... could their highly Lawful Neutral nature be part of why Baator seems so 'advanced' compared to other outer Planes? (They had a whole race of Exemplars evolve into a nonphysical state before the law of war and chaos even broke out!)

    Is it possible that Eladrin are 'replacement exemplars' (like Rilmani and Tanar'ri) for a forgotten (giantish?) original Arborean exemplar who 'ascended' (or whatever) like the ancient baatorians?
    Last edited by Naanomi; 2017-09-17 at 10:33 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #190
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth View Post
    What might the aftereffects or signs on the Prime (and/or the Astral?) be of a newborn god entering the Planes?
    I don't know why there would be any, per se.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalmosh View Post
    Please could you elaborate on the ecology and general nature of elementals when upon their respective Inner Planes?
    It's not a tremendously clear thing, since rarely is it even remotely touched on, but yes, elementals on their home planes are something like incorporeal spirits that can manipulate their environment like a body - they are what it is, after all, only sentient. Elementals, and here to be specific I'm referring to the beings referred to specifically and exclusively by that term and no other, are by nature genderless and do not reproduce; they generally organize in small bands. More than any other inhabitant of their home plane, elementals are the purest example of that element coming to life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naanomi View Post
    Has Anubis always been in his role of Divine Corpse-Watcher, or was he a 'normal' God first and got promoted somehow later?
    The latter. He was formerly a member of the Pharaonic pantheon.

    Does the Temporal Prime predate the current cosmology, or is it part of this creation cycle (presumably among the first parts)?
    Unknown. It is likely part of this cosmology.

    In another thread, there is discussion about The One in the Void, and I was surprised to learn that she was a Good Deity (according to Dungeon Magazine adventure path anyways)... I thought she was basically an unknown. Do we know anything else about her of significance?
    "She" isn't even specified last I checked; the Dungeon adventure constantly uses "it."

    Beyond the fact that The One in the Void was a good-aligned deity and that its corpse has several head "spokes" and six "arms" we know only that it died long before the Gith rebellion.

    Draeden seem to be very compatible with Negative Energy... both are sort of the opposites of matter, life, existence, etc. Meanwhile their opponents ('gods' or dragons or whatever) at the beginning of reality are pretty 'creation/positive energy' focused. Could the prominence of positive and negative energy in the cosmology be echoes of that original existential conflict?
    No.

    Aboleth: do they have souls/become petitioners when they die?
    Yes.

    If so, they'd have been (by far) the first petitioners... could their highly Lawful Neutral nature
    Excuse you?

    be part of why Baator seems so 'advanced' compared to other outer Planes? (They had a whole race of Exemplars evolve into a nonphysical state before the law of war and chaos even broke out!)
    No.

    Is it possible that Eladrin are 'replacement exemplars' (like Rilmani and Tanar'ri) for a forgotten (giantish?) original Arborean exemplar who 'ascended' (or whatever) like the ancient baatorians?
    It's all but outright stated that the eladrin are successors of a more ancient group whose ruins are still found buried in the dust of Pelion.
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  11. - Top - End - #191
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Hi Afroakuma,

    Thanks for the quick replies on my last questions!

    I have a new one though. Plane Shift states that "From the Material Plane, you can reach any other plane". However in previous threats you have mentioned there are planes you can't just Plane Shift to. Is this list big and if not could you make a list? If it is to big what kind of planes can't you Plane Shift to?
    Last edited by Baldin; 2017-09-20 at 09:20 AM.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Baldin View Post
    Plane Shift states that "From the Material Plane, you can reach any other plane". However in previous threats you have mentioned there are planes you can't just Plane Shift to. Is this list big and if not could you make a list? If it is to big what kind of planes can't you Plane Shift to?
    Plane shift uses the Astral Plane for transit; it can't reach anywhere that doesn't connect with the Astral Plane. It also can't reach dimensions (Temporal Prime is strictly speaking not a plane), alternate cosmologies, some specific demiplanes that are set to refuse magical transport, and planes too esoteric or undefined to be magically addressable via tuning fork material (Ordial, "Near Realm", etc. - generally the fanon ones). The Far Realm is accessible via plane shift (the fork required is probably made of kaorti resin or some other inimical substance) thanks to the damage done to the boundary in the past; were it not for this prior contact, it would fall under the scope of places unreachable.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Plane shift uses the Astral Plane for transit; it can't reach anywhere that doesn't connect with the Astral Plane. It also can't reach dimensions (Temporal Prime is strictly speaking not a plane), alternate cosmologies, some specific demiplanes that are set to refuse magical transport, and planes too esoteric or undefined to be magically addressable via tuning fork material (Ordial, "Near Realm", etc. - generally the fanon ones). The Far Realm is accessible via plane shift (the fork required is probably made of kaorti resin or some other inimical substance) thanks to the damage done to the boundary in the past; were it not for this prior contact, it would fall under the scope of places unreachable.
    Does something about the Ethereal's nature prevent it from being used for an equivalent spell in the same way?
    Quote Originally Posted by KKL
    D&D is its own momentum and does its own fantasy. It emulates itself in an incestuous mess.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    The latter. He was formerly a member of the Pharaonic pantheon.
    Do we have any indication about when this happened? Before/After the War of Law and Chaos? Etc?

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Excuse you?
    Sorry, Lawful Evil... don't know what happened there. It just churns my head-cannon to think that there was a long period of Planar history where the only souls floating around the Outer Planes were in the hands of the Ancient Baatorians, and what effect that had on the development of that Plane

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    It's all but outright stated that the eladrin are successors of a more ancient group whose ruins are still found buried in the dust of Pelion.
    Ancient Arboreans then? Or is there some other nomenclature out there?

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    We know that Olidammara flat out created the vestige Andromalius. Would you say the vestige part was more of a freak accident, or something Olidammara could repeat at will? Depending on that, is this something any deity could accomplish, or do you think there are set qualities the deity and soul-to-be-vestiged must posess? Lastly, do you think Olidammara (and any given deity that may have done something similar) could reverse the Vestige-theosis, or is it a permanently done deal?
    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    If I sneak in under the deadline...

    Birthright halflings were refugees from a 'shadow plane'. Is there any more detail on it? Was it part of the shadow demiplane or plane?

    I think 1E the norns/fates lived in one of the rings of Concordant opp. Did they get into planescape?

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Is Anubis dependent on worship in the fashion of other gods? His unique role makes it seem kind of like the rules might apply differently to him.
    Quote Originally Posted by KKL
    D&D is its own momentum and does its own fantasy. It emulates itself in an incestuous mess.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Speaking of Anubis, why hasn't he reclaimed the dead god that the githyanki are living on?

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    We did a fair amount of Anubis-talk a few threads ago. He doesn't need worship like other Gods (whatever empowers him to do his job is all he needs, probably the Old Ones)...

    Overall he is pretty whimsical (from a mortal perspective) about doing his job, so apparently Tu'narath hasn't 'crossed the line' just yet

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    been gone for awhile, but don't want this thread to close.
    I have read that ao has the ability to flat out create gods who fit the needs of the forgotten realm pantheon. my question is how, then do these gods get set up a religion and church, since they were not created by the beliefs of a already existing congregation?

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeyTheNeko View Post
    been gone for awhile, but don't want this thread to close.
    I have read that ao has the ability to flat out create gods who fit the needs of the forgotten realm pantheon. my question is how, then do these gods get set up a religion and church, since they were not created by the beliefs of a already existing congregation?
    According to the Power of Faerun book it requires a whopping TWO successful diplomacy checks to convert someone to your ideas of worship.
    One to get them to attend the sermon and another for the sermon itself.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    some questions I asked last thread never did get answered so I might as well ask them here.

    so Orcus's wand is D&D's spin on the one ring...

    what does that make it's apparent counterpart, asmodous's ruby rod a spin on?

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    How would one identify that a Chole Dragon was secretly part Draeden? Is such a thing even possible?
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    what do we know about lindorms and spell eaters (from dragon magic) any notable planar members of each and their origins?

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by gkathellar View Post
    Does something about the Ethereal's nature prevent it from being used for an equivalent spell in the same way?
    It's not a plane of planar connections like the Astral, so its nature is poorly suited to the task at hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naanomi View Post
    Do we have any indication about when this happened? Before/After the War of Law and Chaos? Etc?
    Formally no, but after the War of Law and Chaos is basically a given, since Anubis was a human deity for some time and is still referenced in the cultural artifacts of some Prime societies.

    Ancient Arboreans then? Or is there some other nomenclature out there?
    There is not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jowgen View Post
    We know that Olidammara flat out created the vestige Andromalius. Would you say the vestige part was more of a freak accident, or something Olidammara could repeat at will?
    Freak accident.

    Lastly, do you think Olidammara (and any given deity that may have done something similar) could reverse the Vestige-theosis, or is it a permanently done deal?
    One way only.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpoonR View Post
    Birthright halflings were refugees from a 'shadow plane'. Is there any more detail on it? Was it part of the shadow demiplane or plane?
    The Shadow World is a strange phenomenon, having elements of a Material Plane demiplane, a Realm of Faerie, and the Ethereal and Shadow Planes. It is, however, ultimately a phenomenon of the Ethereal Plane: the Shadow World is the Border Ethereal around Aebrynis (and possibly throughout Aebrynispace).

    I think 1E the norns/fates lived in one of the rings of Concordant opp. Did they get into planescape?
    The Well of Urd, realm of the Norns, exists in Planescape, yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by gkathellar View Post
    Is Anubis dependent on worship in the fashion of other gods?
    He used to be, but he's no longer a god and no longer has that dependency.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronk View Post
    Speaking of Anubis, why hasn't he reclaimed the dead god that the githyanki are living on?
    It is unclear why the Guardian of Dead Gods does not consider githyanki transgressions against The One in the Void to be his business. Perhaps their insular, mad little god-city and its society somehow give others who might consider doing likewise pause.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeyTheNeko View Post
    I have read that ao has the ability to flat out create gods who fit the needs of the forgotten realm pantheon. my question is how, then do these gods get set up a religion and church, since they were not created by the beliefs of a already existing congregation?
    Manifestations, omens, miracles, yada yada.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeyTheNeko View Post
    so Orcus's wand is D&D's spin on the one ring...

    what does that make it's apparent counterpart, asmodous's ruby rod a spin on?
    This?

    Quote Originally Posted by enderlord99 View Post
    How would one identify that a Chole Dragon was secretly part Draeden? Is such a thing even possible?
    The concept of a crossbreed between a draeden and anything else of the material universe is absurd; draedens hate all things made of anything and try to destroy it. Chole dragons might be influenced by the horrific presence of the draeden Ulgurshek far above causing turbulence within the Abyss itself, but in nature, abilities, and behavior they are clearly true scions of the Abyss and of chaos and evil.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeyTheNeko View Post
    what do we know about lindorms and spell eaters (from dragon magic) any notable planar members of each and their origins?
    Spelleaters have only been detailed in one book, so no.

    As for linnorms, it's more than likely that some can be found on various planes, particularly in areas connected to Yggdrasil. One individual of note is the dread linnorm Redfang, a personal nemesis of Morwel.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Huh. So what happened to his clerics and worshippers? Are they all gone?
    Quote Originally Posted by KKL
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    I think their worship is shared between the other Pharaonian deities. They also share spellgranting duties.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    It is unclear why the Guardian of Dead Gods does not consider githyanki transgressions against The One in the Void to be his business. Perhaps their insular, mad little god-city and its society somehow give others who might consider doing likewise pause.
    Thanks! The players in my game recently inhabited a dead god in secret, so I'm extra interested in this, and I have a few more questions.

    Does Anubis have a godlike sense of what happens in his astral graveyard? Would he know they're there already?

    What would his personality be like if they end up talking to him? How tough is he, and what powers would he have, if they fight, or witness a fight with someone else?

    How big is he? Is he human sized, the size of the miles long god corpses, or somewhere in between?

    I've run across a Dragon article with some options for what players might find on a god corpse, like godsblood, weird memories, strange plants and minerals, and even the possibility of running into a field that raises stats. But for 3.5, all I could find was a web article saying that the first members of the spelltheif class got their powers by accidentally coming into contact with dead god's fluids after the Time of Troubles. Are there any other interesting things that you might find on a god corpse? Is there anything updated to 3.5 out there?

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post

    As for linnorms, it's more than likely that some can be found on various planes, particularly in areas connected to Yggdrasil. One individual of note is the dread linnorm Redfang, a personal nemesis of Morwel.
    Is this the Redfang that I'm hearing is from Savage Tides? If not, is there more out there about Redfang, like where he lives, and so on?

  29. - Top - End - #209
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    RedSorcererGirl

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    so the favored enemy ability of rangers...
    whats the fluff about it? is it based on the study of their enemies, or on hate and rage against them, as some depictions have done?

  30. - Top - End - #210
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeyTheNeko View Post
    so the favored enemy ability of rangers...
    whats the fluff about it? is it based on the study of their enemies, or on hate and rage against them, as some depictions have done?
    What's this got to do with the planes? And, what are you looking for beyond what's in the PHB?

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