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    Default Which Warlock is best

    I am running a 3.5/pathfinder game and one of my players wants to be a Warlock, which I know is an underpowered class in 3E. So I was wondering, should I just try to port the 5E version, or find some Warlock home-brew fix (and if so, where can I find it?)

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    Default Re: Which Warlock is best

    Quote Originally Posted by CowardlyPaladin View Post
    I am running a 3.5/pathfinder game and one of my players wants to be a Warlock, which I know is an underpowered class in 3E. So I was wondering, should I just try to port the 5E version, or find some Warlock home-brew fix (and if so, where can I find it?)
    What are the other characters in the party?

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    Default Re: Which Warlock is best

    I strongly recommend not doing this. It would be better to play a witch or a warlock. Especially given the online material for them, which makes them a very strong class (not tier 1 though)

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    Default Re: Which Warlock is best

    Quote Originally Posted by Anderlith View Post
    I strongly recommend not doing this. It would be better to play a witch or a warlock. Especially given the online material for them, which makes them a very strong class (not tier 1 though)
    Wait, a witch or a warlock, my player wants to play a warlock, I just don't know which version to go with


    To answer Nifft, a Warblade, a Samurai (not Complete Warrior), a Swashbuckler and a Favored Soul. She wants to be a celestial warlock

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    Default Re: Which Warlock is best

    Quote Originally Posted by CowardlyPaladin View Post
    To answer Nifft, a Warblade, a Samurai (not Complete Warrior), a Swashbuckler and a Favored Soul. She wants to be a celestial warlock
    Those aren't T1 nor T2 classes, so IMHO a regular Warlock ought to be quite viable -- even the vanilla 3.5e Warlock would probably be fine.

    It sounds like you want to add some features from a 5e patron, and IMHO you probably could do that without breaking the game.

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    Default Re: Which Warlock is best

    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    Those aren't T1 nor T2 classes, so IMHO a regular Warlock ought to be quite viable -- even the vanilla 3.5e Warlock would probably be fine.

    It sounds like you want to add some features from a 5e patron, and IMHO you probably could do that without breaking the game.
    Complicating the matter is the fact that a 6th player might join with a Pathfinder Sorcerer

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    Default Re: Which Warlock is best

    Quote Originally Posted by CowardlyPaladin View Post
    Complicating the matter is the fact that a 6th player might join with a Pathfinder Sorcerer
    If you're worried about a power imbalance between the Warlock and this Sorcerer, then you should probably worry about that same power imbalance against the other 4 characters, too.

    Maybe say no to this 6th person instead of modifying the other 5 characters.

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    Default Re: Which Warlock is best

    What makes it underpowered for your game?
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    Default Re: Which Warlock is best

    Quote Originally Posted by CowardlyPaladin View Post
    Wait, a witch or a warlock, my player wants to play a warlock, I just don't know which version to go with


    To answer Nifft, a Warblade, a Samurai (not Complete Warrior), a Swashbuckler and a Favored Soul. She wants to be a celestial warlock
    Well 3.5 has a Warlock but Pathfinder has a Witch, that is thematically similar, because Pathfinder doesn't have a Warlock. That is why I mentioned it. If your player cares that much about the class name to be turned away from the class I can't help you. But personally I'd just change the name Witch to Warlock.

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    Default Re: Which Warlock is best

    Warlock is a solid tier 3 class (although I prefer the dragonfire adept).

    Edit: They are tier 3 when combined with the hell fire warlock prestige class (it's free and legal on wizard's old website).
    Last edited by NecroDancer; 2017-06-19 at 06:26 PM.

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    Default Re: Which Warlock is best

    I'm helping! Here's the link to the Hellfire warlock.

    I think the 3.5 warlock would be fine in the party, but the pathfinder sorcerer might be an issue. Talk with the sorcerer player and see if they have a plan to play nicely with the others, or if they might (intentionally or not) outshine everybody. Perhaps encourage them to take a weaker bloodline.
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    Default Re: Which Warlock is best

    PF Warlock eh? Try the Warlock section here and pick out your favourite perhaps.
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    Default Re: Which Warlock is best

    If you're fine with 3rd-party material, I'd suggest the Avowed. Frankly, I find it's pretty awesome and it feels like a proper warlock.
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    Default Re: Which Warlock is best

    The 5e Warlock is basically incompatible with 3.5. More than most other 5e classes, it's nailed into the system's assumptions about rests, damage values, spell up-casting, all that jazz. You'd basically have to rewrite the whole thing from scratch.

    If you're worried about Warlock power-- and it's not an invalid worry, making a guy who keeps up offensively is a little involved-- I suggest buffing Eldrich Blast to 1d6/level or the HD up to 1d8 and granting Cha-to-AC, and granting a free Blast Shape or Eldrich Essence invocation at every level you unlock a new tier of invocations (1st, 6th, 11th, 16th). That should help you out a bit without blowing the power too far off the scale. If you want to go farther, I suggest more invocations more than anything else; the Warlock's biggest issue is probably repetitiveness.
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    Default Re: Which Warlock is best

    Quote Originally Posted by CowardlyPaladin View Post
    Ok, let me modify my question, is there a good Warlock Fix which can make it either high tier 3 without a prestige class or low tier 2?
    If you want more than the one I suggested? The standard lightning-solution is to bump the blast to 1d6/level, and the invocations known to 1/level. Works pretty solidly, and requires virtually no effort. You could bump the hit die and skill points up a bit too, just on general principles.
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    Default Re: Which Warlock is best

    I think you'd be fine with the 3.5 Warlock. It's not really underpowered, it can be squishy but with eldritch spear and a few feats like maximize spell-like ability and quicken spell-like-ability they become pretty potent. Maybe a little one dimensional but potent nonetheless.
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    Default Re: Which Warlock is best

    You could consider using the Avowed. It's something of a Pathfinder Warlock update currently under playtest by one of the Dreamscarred Press developers.
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    Default Re: Which Warlock is best

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    If you want more than the one I suggested? The standard lightning-solution is to bump the blast to 1d6/level, and the invocations known to 1/level. Works pretty solidly, and requires virtually no effort. You could bump the hit die and skill points up a bit too, just on general principles.
    Ok and thats it? Maybe I was just mistaken, but a lot of people gave me the impression that Warlock was this extremely weak class so thank you for showing me that it is only a little behind.

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    Default Re: Which Warlock is best

    Quote Originally Posted by CowardlyPaladin View Post
    Ok and thats it? Maybe I was just mistaken, but a lot of people gave me the impression that Warlock was this extremely weak class so thank you for showing me that it is only a little behind.
    "A little behind" is a good way to put it, in my opinion. They're significantly weaker than a full caster, but they tend to be a lot more flexible than most noncasters. You can sort of get the offense up to par once you hit mid levels (Hellfire Warlock, Eldritch Glaive, the better save-or-suck essences), or you can sort of acquire stronger utility (The Dead Walk, Charm, Crawling Eye... a lot of Lesser Invocations are good for this, actually... a two-level Chameleon dip, that sort of thing), but the limited invocations known make it hard to do both, and you tend to wind up with just one or two things to do mid-fight. Bumping the damage up means that you can have Warlocks who don't go the Hellfire route, and who are a little more useful at low levels; bumping up the invocations known allows you to pick a few of the less strong/more interesting invocations, rather than just going the Spear/Shatter/Flight/Invisibility route like everyone else.
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