What class makes the best tank?

[DivisibleByZero]

What I dislike about the roguesinger is that he doesn't have good ways to protect his allies except his own space to put between the danger and the VIP, yes a tank should do that, but if the target is smart it will likely give priority to the fireball-slinger guy in the robes.

Roguesinger will perform great in a 1v1 fight, the problem is about protecting others, not to be an elusive thing that zaps through the battlefield, and if he stands still, it's just an obstacle that you can just circumvent.

That's precisely how most tanks do their job. By being a meat shield.
The mobility is gravy, it's not integral to completing your job of tanking.
But what you said is wrong anyway, as he has both BB and Sentinel (and while other tanks probably/possibly have Sentinel, many don't have BB). So he protects others by controlling and/or punishing the enemies attacking allies in addition to being a meat shield.

That's why I like paladins: compelled duel is so good at protecting others (and protection fighting style in extremis), and you are not going to die easily due to high AC and good heal that takes your action, but what are you doing with your action anyways? If you have to tank you use your action to tank, not to deal damage.

I despise using that spell when I'm tanking in most situations, because it only locks down a single enemy and it even goes so far as to preclude you from even attacking/targeting anyone else unless you want to waste the slot and drop the spell.
It's good against the BBEG, sure, but most fights aren't against the BBEG.

[Lombra]

That's precisely how most tanks do their job. By being a meat shield.
The mobility is gravy, it's not integral do doing your job.


I despise using that spell when I'm tanking in most situations, because it only locks down a single enemy and it even goes so far as to preclude you from even attacking anyone else unless you want to waste the slot and drop the spell.
It's good against the BBEG, sure, but most fights aren't against the BBEG.

Being just meat doesn't make you a tank if you can't be the target of the enemies. It does is a requirement, and I said that the roguesinger has it.

Against multiple targets you are gonna sanctuary the VIP, no problem really.

Edit due to edit: booming blade is cantrip damage... that's not preventing some beefy things to get past you. You are not gonna get sentinel going if you uncanny dodge, or cast shield.

[DivisibleByZero]

Being just meat doesn't make you a tank if you can't be the target of the enemies. It does is a requirement, and I said that the roguesinger has it.

Against multiple targets you are gonna sanctuary the VIP, no problem really.

You were too quick and missed my edit.
Anyway, this has already been covered earlier in the thread. Go back and read it.
Furthermore, the exact reason that you claim to like Paladin (compelled duel locking down a single enemy only) is one of the reasons that you dislike the Rogue (when that's untrue anyway)?
That makes no sense.
Against multiple enemies I can sanctuary the VIP, and also a second enemy. Your Paladin using Compelled Duel can only do the former. He is absolutely zero threat to anyone else, and the rest of the mobs can run around and kill squishies freely, while you stand back and watch them die because of the spell you cast.

Edit due to edit: booming blade is cantrip damage... that's not preventing some beefy things to get past you. You are not gonna get sentinel going if you uncanny dodge, or cast shield.

Cantrip damage, plus sneak attack, plus potential secondary cantrip damage, plus potential tertiary second casting of BB again on a reaction, doubling it all again.
It is anything BUT insignificant. It stops enemies in their tracks. Or they die.

That "cantrip damage... that's not preventing some beefy things to get past you" is dealing, at level 11:
1d8+4weapon+2d8bb+4d6sneak= ~8.5+9+14= ~31.5 primary
+3d8secondary= ~13.5 +31.5= ~45 if they move
+31.5 again if you have WarCaster= ~76.5 if this convinces them to stop moving
+13.5 again if they keep moving after that= ~90 damage when it's all said and done.... if the enemy is a compete and total moron.

Yeah, cantrip damage. Yep.
As for not using Sentinel or UC or shield, so what? I just killed one enemy I was tanking. I'll take a hit this round (if he can get past my AC). He isn't going to do 90 damage to me like I did.
But my point is that BB locks him down. He's not moving, and if he does he dies. So I can certainly use Sentinel or UC or whatever. If I can't, then there's one less enemy to worry about, so it was worth it.

I keep hearing "but he can only lock down one enemy!"
I asked previously for someone to give me examples of another tank that can lock down multiple enemies in the way that you're all talking about. I have yet to see an answer. This isn't a problem for the Rogue. It's a common theme for tanks in 5e. One, maybe two. That's all you get for the most part.

[JellyPooga]

good post

I don't disagree with anything you say at all. The Rogue definitely has trouble with multiple foes and really only shines if the "enemy pool" is small.

As you mention though, party composition plays a massive role in how effective a given tank build will function; given adequate support, the Rogue can be a massive force multiplier for the likes of Conjure Animals in the tanking department. Even being able to draw attention for a turn, weather the ensuing attacks with Mirror Image and/or high AC and UD, then being the locus for an incoming Fireball from a friendly is a valuable ability.

My point isn't that Rogues are necessarily the best Tanks, only that they have several key abilities that allow them to perform in that role more than adequately, perhaps even better than some under the right circumstances. The "Tank Rogue" is most definitely a viable build, IMO. Better than other tanks? Perhaps, perhaps not, but certainly not to be underestimated.

[Citan]

I don't disagree with anything you say at all. The Rogue definitely has trouble with multiple foes and really only shines if the "enemy pool" is small.

As you mention though, party composition plays a massive role in how effective a given tank build will function; given adequate support, the Rogue can be a massive force multiplier for the likes of Conjure Animals in the tanking department. Even being able to draw attention for a turn, weather the ensuing attacks with Mirror Image and/or high AC and UD, then being the locus for an incoming Fireball from a friendly is a valuable ability.

My point isn't that Rogues are necessarily the best Tanks, only that they have several key abilities that allow them to perform in that role more than adequately, perhaps even better than some under the right circumstances. The "Tank Rogue" is most definitely a viable build, IMO. Better than other tanks? Perhaps, perhaps not, but certainly not to be underestimated.

That I perfectly agree with. ;) I would certainly put a bit of Rogue in any multiclass that aims to protect others (at the very least 2 for Expertise and Cunning Action, but up to 5 for Uncanny Dodge is indeed great for many other classes).
I'm for example very fond of Rogue 2 on most Monks that don't care about magic (otherwise Life Cleric / Druid is my favorite 2-level dip). ^^

EDIT: I don't understand what you imply with Conjure Animals (apart from them providing advantage obviously)? I'm not seeing the synergy here, even if once you explain it it will probably seem obvious. XD

[MaxWilson]

Also, where are you getting the 1500gp for Full Plate at level 1? I'm pretty sure none of the starting equipment packages have it...

Maybe from a hole in the ground? I hear the monsters in there have lots of gold.

You may or may not still be level 1 when your full plate is ready (it's very situational how fast you gain XP vs. gold). But it's not like a low-level party has a ton of other high priorities besides armor, either. They can't yet use expensive spell components, most DMs don't seem eager to offer henchmen, and exotic poisons aren't really cost-effective against low-level foes. (Sure, you can buy some just in case you meet a high-level foe--but it's probably not a higher priority than getting good armor.)

[Yagyujubei]

I can agree that there isn't a dedicated tank class but saying that no class can be a true tank is not true in my opinion (see my paladin posts above)

well for me a requirement of being a true tank is a way to force the enemies to fight you which no class really has. None of the core classes really have a taunt-like mechanic aside from compelled duel i guess but thats pretty impractical to have to rely on all the time.

I would say that UA included Ancestral guardian is pretty close to a true tank but even then it cant force an enemy to focus on it...It does give it the most incentive to though. If you could somehow combine that class and a paladin I think you would have a true tank.

[Findulidas]

well for me a requirement of being a true tank is a way to force the enemies to fight you which no class really has. None of the core classes really have a taunt-like mechanic aside from compelled duel i guess but thats pretty impractical to have to rely on all the time.

You also have panache from the swashbuckler archetype. Its a poor use for an action unless you are far away though.

[Specter]

I've changed my mind. Now I'm going for Crown Paladin 9/Battlemaster 3 (Sentinel with polearm) as the best tank you can make.

Spells: Command, Compelled Duel and Spirit Guardians. If you can't tank with that, give up on the game. Spirit Guardians is especially nice, considering you restrict movement and give damage at the same time.

AC: 19AC on full plate. Very nice, but not to the point of disincentivizing enemies to attack you.

Saves: At least +3 in all saves. Nifty.

Maneuvers: Trip, Precision and Goading. All you need.

Champion Challenge: A WIS save that costs you no action, so that enemies can't move more than 30 feet from you. Just tell the casters to stay behind that point and they'll be alright.

Divine Allegiance: If you really want to tank, how about taking damage instead of your friends when the going gets tough?

Opportunity attacks that matter: 1d10+STR can be ignored, but add a smite and a maneuver on top of it, and enemies will either die or respect you. Plus, if you trip them, they may not even get where they wanted. If you roll low on your attack, Precision will save you.

The only downside of this build is that maneuvers are rest-dependant, and spells are long-rest dependant.

[MaxWilson]

Cantrip damage, plus sneak attack, plus potential secondary cantrip damage, plus potential tertiary second casting of BB again on a reaction, doubling it all again.
It is anything BUT insignificant. It stops enemies in their tracks. Or they die.

That "cantrip damage... that's not preventing some beefy things to get past you" is dealing, at level 11:
1d8+4weapon+2d8bb+4d6sneak= ~8.5+9+14= ~31.5 primary
+3d8secondary= ~13.5 +31.5= ~45 if they move
+31.5 again if you have WarCaster= ~76.5 if this convinces them to stop moving
+13.5 again if they keep moving after that= ~90 damage when it's all said and done.... if the enemy is a compete and total moron.

Yeah, cantrip damage. Yep.
As for not using Sentinel or UC or shield, so what?

Wait, so now your Roguesinger has Sentinel AND Warcaster? You have exactly four ASIs, and it takes two ASIs plus Bladesong for you even to match the AC of a bog-standard Defense Fighter. If you're investing in Sentinel and Warcaster, that means you will NEVER exceed standard AC and you might as well drop the Bladesinger angle entirely and just wear plate armor. Now you're just a Fighter 1/Arcane Trickster X, so you can be a variant human and start out with Sentinel. That starts to approximate a reasonable tank build.

You still have way less effective HP than a paladorc (thanks to amazingly efficient healing, and more spell slots than you), and worse control capabilities at high levels (Wrathful Smite, Fear, etc.), but once you drop the bladesinger angle at least you can tank effectively without having to be 19th level first.

I keep hearing "but he can only lock down one enemy!"
I asked previously for someone to give me examples of another tank that can lock down multiple enemies in the way that you're all talking about. I have yet to see an answer. This isn't a problem for the Rogue. It's a common theme for tanks in 5e. One, maybe two. That's all you get for the most part.

Already gave an example of locking down multiple enemies, way back in the thread: Warcaster paladorc grapples/shoves prone one Chuul, casts Wrathful Smite with his bonus action to enhance his opportunity attack. He's locking down two Chuuls thereby, leaving only two for the rest of the party to deal with.

If he were willing to forego a shield he could grapple two Chuuls simultaneously, while using Wrathful Smite to enhance his opportunity attack (kick) to handle a third Chuul. I've never seen that happen in practice though--you'd have to know in advance that you needed to doff your shield. More likely in that scenario the bard or wizard would just cast Hypnotic Pattern on the biggest cluster of Chuuls (to which the paladorc in question is immune because of Devotion aura), unless the terrain was such that the paladin's grapple had already closed off the chokepoint.

================================================== ========

You also have panache from the swashbuckler archetype. Its a poor use for an action unless you are far away though.

It's better than you think when you realize that you can actually use Panache on a target that can't see you, as long as it can hear you. You can taunt + Cunning Action (Hide in the curtains). And of course it completely bypasses Legendary Resistance since it's not a save at all.

It's not a super-powerful ability but it has its uses. (I'm biased in its favor though because I just think it's fun.)

[DivisibleByZero]

Wait, so now your Roguesinger has Sentinel AND Warcaster? You have exactly four ASIs,

I have 5, because Rogue.
And I believe I already said I was done with you here because of your tone and attitude.
Just so we're clear.

[MaxWilson]

I have 5, because Rogue.

Ah, yes. I stand corrected--you can become a decent tank by 15th level instead of 19th.

And I believe I already said I was done with you here because of your tone and attitude.

Why are you telling me this? If you're done, then stop. Don't keep telling me you're done while still trying to get in the last word.

Just so we're clear.

You've developed a strange fixation on that phrase. You've used it at least three times now in the past twenty-four hours. I wonder why.

[GlenSmash!]

well for me a requirement of being a true tank is a way to force the enemies to fight you which no class really has. None of the core classes really have a taunt-like mechanic aside from compelled duel i guess but thats pretty impractical to have to rely on all the time.

I would say that UA included Ancestral guardian is pretty close to a true tank but even then it cant force an enemy to focus on it...It does give it the most incentive to though. If you could somehow combine that class and a paladin I think you would have a true tank.

I dislike abilities that "Force" enemies to fight you. I find them to be gamiist.

I LOVE abilities that give enemies incentive to fight you instead of your allies. Reckless Attack, Sentinel, Level 14 Bear Totem, and others provide this incentive.

The most recent Ancestral Guardian path from Unearthed Arcana has quite a few of these abilities.

[Waterdeep Merch]

Tanking has three major facets- damage mitigation, damage soaking, and drawing attacks (or 'aggro').

For damage mitigation, a paladin pure-class or a sorcadin if you're allowed to multiclass for it. They can just have crazy high defensive values for avoiding being hit in the first place thanks to heavy armor, shields, aura of protection, and spells that lend themselves well to defense.

For damage soaking, a bear totem barbarian without really much difference if you multiclass. d12 hit dice and resistance to (almost) everything when raging means you don't need to avoid anything. Just go ahead and eat fireballs and crap lightning bolts.

For aggro, go with a kender thief rogue. Every single thing that finds you will try to kill you, including your own party. There really just isn't any other build in the game that will be as widely targeted.

[Yagyujubei]

I dislike abilities that "Force" enemies to fight you. I find them to be gamiist.

I LOVE abilities that give enemies incentive to fight you instead of your allies. Reckless Attack, Sentinel, Level 14 Bear Totem, and others provide this incentive.

The most recent Ancestral Guardian path from Unearthed Arcana has quite a few of these abilities.

im not saying one way is better than the other or anything, and this is probably just because we live in a world where video games have set the standard for many archetypes when it comes to RPG/fantasy settings and terminology. So because I've played so many games where this was the case, when i think of "tank" i think of words "taunt", "provoke", "cover", "sword and board" etc.

but yeah i do think ancestral guardian path barbarian comes the closest to being a true tank in the game.

[Ralanr]

im not saying one way is better than the other or anything, and this is probably just because we live in a world where video games have set the standard for many archetypes when it comes to RPG/fantasy settings and terminology. So because I've played so many games where this was the case, when i think of "tank" i think of words "taunt", "provoke", "cover", "sword and board" etc.

but yeah i do think ancestral guardian path barbarian comes the closest to being a true tank in the game.

Kinda wish it wasn't flavored so ghostly.

Fluff is fluff, but I don't like the idea of my dead grandpa and granny protecting me and my allies or distracting enemies in combat.

They earned their rest damn it. And grandpa won't shut up about the old days.

[Waterdeep Merch]

Kinda wish it wasn't flavored so ghostly.

Fluff is fluff, but I don't like the idea of my dead grandpa and granny protecting me and my allies or distracting enemies in combat.

They earned their rest damn it. And grandpa won't shut up about the old days.

That... actually makes me want to play them. Just imagine if your power basically comes from a bunch of nagging, dead relatives that think you'd be useless without them. Now imagine if they don't necessarily go away when you aren't raging and they just won't stop nagging you.

Barbarian: I'm going to the tavern.
Grampbarian: Oh, sure. Go get drunk and be useless for the rest of the day. You sure did earn it with all that walking today.
Barbarian: I walked ten miles, grandpa.
Grampbarian: *mockingly* I walked 10 miles, grandpa! Hooey! In my day, all the dungeons took a whole month of traveling through swamps, snow, and random encounters. Uphill, both ways!
Grannybarian: Ooh, do you see that nice young lady by the bar? She looks healthy. You should go introduce yourself.
Barbarian: Grandma, no!
Grannybarian: You're not getting any younger. Think about the family.

[Ralanr]

That... actually makes me want to play them. Just imagine if your power basically comes from a bunch of nagging, dead relatives that think you'd be useless without them. Now imagine if they don't necessarily go away when you aren't raging and they just won't stop nagging you.

Barbarian: I'm going to the tavern.
Grampbarian: Oh, sure. Go get drunk and be useless for the rest of the day. You sure did earn it with all that walking today.
Barbarian: I walked ten miles, grandpa.
Grampbarian: *mockingly* I walked 10 miles, grandpa! Hooey! In my day, all the dungeons took a whole month of traveling through swamps, snow, and random encounters. Uphill, both ways!
Grannybarian: Ooh, do you see that nice young lady by the bar? She looks healthy. You should go introduce yourself.
Barbarian: Grandma, no!
Grannybarian: You're not getting any younger. Think about the family.

Ok yes, that does make it more fun. Would still prefer a different fluff for it.

If it makes it in the next book, I hope WOTC puts in a sidebar that showcases different fluff ideas that could work for it.

[Finger6842]

What level are we talking about?
17+ best tank is Warlock, Sorcerer, Wizard or Bard because they can have a wall of zombies between bad people and you, High saves, shield spell etc...
Sometimes the single player mentality gets in the way. Focus on party makeup just like your doing, but to choose well you need to know what everyone else is thinking.

PS Fear, Prismatic, Wall, Charm...

Druid should also get a mention as Dragons seem to tank well AND become the focus of much attention. Really the only class that can't tank in a pinch is Ranger, and even he gets snare for kiting.

[GlenSmash!]

Ok yes, that does make it more fun. Would still prefer a different fluff for it.

If it makes it in the next book, I hope WOTC puts in a sidebar that showcases different fluff ideas that could work for it.

Good point. They could just change "Ancestral" to "Spiritual" then it could be nature spirits, ancestors, or Ghosts your character has enslaved.

[Vogonjeltz]

That's a misrepresentation. The difference in AC between Dex light armor and heavy armor is literally one point. But if you have Bladesong, you have the best potential AC in the game.

Yes, exactly, the heavy armor will always have a higher potential to protect, making light armor strictly inferior.

Why don't we just itemize the benefits?

Fighter Champion gets:
d10 hit die (2nd highest value in the game)
2 fighting styles (so, Defense + Protection)
Second Wind
Action Surge (for whatever), 4 Attacks (combat contests are great for suppressing enemies)
Indomitable
Remarkable Athlete (for non-proficienct checks)
Survivor
Heavy Armor and shield (21 AC before magic items).
Two extra ASI they can invest in some feats like: Heavy Armor Master, Shield Master, Tough, and Sentinel while still being able to get their Strength and Constitution up to 20.


Ancients Paladin gets:
d10 hit die
1 Fighting Style
Lay on Hands
Divine Health (Disease immunity)
2 Attacks
Aura of Protection (+saves), Aura of Courage (Fear immunity), Aura of Warding (Spell damage resistance)
Cleansing Touch (spell removal)
Undying Sentinel (Half-Orc racial feature)
Elder Champion (1 minute of being a Champion)


Rogue gets:
d8 hit die
Light Armor (17 AC before magic items)
Uncanny dodge (reaction for 1/2 damage against a single attack)
Evasion (half damage saving throws negated on success, only half on failure)
Elusive (no advantage on enemy attacks)
One extra ASI that could be a feat.

Uncanny dodge is nice enough, albeit limited in use and not going to do much against any melee attacker who will have 2+ attacks at higher levels. Elusive is also nice enough, but also basically just a status quo ability, if the enemy never had advantage it might as well not exist. Evasion is good, but only works vs spells that deal damage, something the tankier classes just shrug off thanks to more hit points and hit point restoring abilities.

I'd also caution that Bladesinger suffers from two overt problems:
1) It relies on short rest abilities to improve AC which do nothing against area of effects.
2) It brings no reason to focus on it, in lieu of another party member.

Bladesinger is probably the single worst archetype in the game precisely because it is so untethered from the concept of the base class.

[Citan]

I asked previously for someone to give me examples of another tank that can lock down multiple enemies in the way that you're all talking about. I have yet to see an answer. This isn't a problem for the Rogue. It's a common theme for tanks in 5e. One, maybe two. That's all you get for the most part.

A few examples, in disorder of efficiency (too tired to be really smart about that reflexion right now XD).

- Crown Paladin: Channel Divinity mass Compelled Duel. Not useful against all enemies, but an efficient mass lockdown (on you XD) of many melee people. Extremely good paired with Spirit Guardians and a possible Sanctuary put on you by a friend.

- Druid: one of the class with the most ways to influence creatures's behaviour: Fog Cloud (the usual), Heat Metal (situational, but the big bad guy you cast it on will usually make breaking your concentration his priority), Moonbeam / Spike Growth to make crossing an area costly, Plant Growth to outright make reaching your party (without dying in the process) impossible unless special movement abilities like fly, and the obvious Conjure spells (Animals for a quick meat barrier, Woodlands to apply some mass spells, etc).
Too bad Druid is otherwise mostly lacking the aspects of a tank, beginning with a proper resilience (unless >10 Moon Druid, and even so), but some of those spells are accessible to other classes (including Arcane Trickster ;)) so I wanted to list them here FYI.

- Cleric: Spirit Guardians is actually working against the affect of tanking (why would a reasonable creature go into a zone that damages it, with free will?), but paired with Thorns Whip (Nature Cleric), Command (any) or a friend's shoving effect (or self Sentinel), gives a great locking ability.
Cleric also get many buff spells for friends, as well as protection zones that effectively act at least as "demotivating barriers" such as Magic Circle and later Forbiddance. Life, Light and Nature are better than others at being protective.

- Monk: Open Hand that would really specialize in tank could, provided he hit of course, keep at least 2, maybe 3 enemies in check (4 with extreme luck so let's say it's just no possible): Grapple one enemy, attack him with maybe Stunning Strike attempt, attack one (or two, depending on success) other enemy on which you apply prone. Long Death, although it uses an action, imposes fear on enemies in a 30 feet radius: considering fear imposes disadvantage on attacks rolls and checks, it means you are effectively providing great protection to all your friends and help Shovers/Grapplers do their job. Of course their are ways to break this (especially with an enemy caster), but it is still good against many ones.

- Lore Bard: Cutting Words, features that help with healing, access to of the best "control" spells (Dissonant Whispers, Compulsion, Confusion, Phantasmal Force) and Magic Secrets to pick others would make him a great tank, if he had some resilience. Sadly he is severely lacking in that department unless he would invest much.


Now for some example multiclass, without UA (not necessarily the most optimized though, I make it on the fly ^^)...

CHA-based (complex): Ancients Paladin 7 (Protection FS) / Lore Bard 5 (Healing Words, Blindness, etc) / Wild Magic Sorcerer 6 (Counterspell, any battlefield control, Careful and Quickened Metamagics) / Warlock 2 (Repelling Blast). Quite clunky to level, so better in theory than in practice unless you start at least character level 8 or so. ;)
Does offer some wondrous synergy though in the end: grab Lightning Lure and Shocking Grasp or any other cantrip with rider, bump CHA once, pick Sentinel and Warcaster. Obviously secondary stat is Constitution, third being DEX. Wield a whip and a shield.
You are very resilient yourself, you get Cutting Words and Bend Luck to protect people, a decent Counterspell, and a bunch of spells to use in various situations. Thanks to whip, Sentinel and Warcaster, you can cast any cantrip or spell, even ranged attack, without disadvantage. You can also push and pull people as needed.

CHA-based (simple): Ancients Paladin 20. Ok it's not a multiclass. XD Let's go with Crown Paladin 6 / Lore Bard 6 / Swashbuckler 9: still Cutting Words, Counterspell as Magic Secrets (to pair with Mirror Image), but also mass Compelled Duel, that can be paired with Panache. Obviously a DEX & CHA build, with Shield Master. Much more "martial" feeling.

WIS-based (complex): Life Cleric 5 / Land Druid 6 / Eldricht Knight 3 / Open Hand Monk 6: another wonky build, with new combinations coming online at key steps, can be leveled up in several ways.
The end goal is to combine a Plant Growth with Spirit Guardians and Monk's abilities to lock down definitively people in the vicinity. EK is here mainly for Action Surge which help setting this. You can either boost WIS and then use turns pulling people with Thorn Whips. Or boost DEX and ditch WIS-related Monk abilities, just using Ki on Dodge (because enemies stuck near you will probably try to attack to break concentration) or Flurry of Blows (more chances to grapple). You still have one ASI for Sentinel. Problem of this build is that you don't get any "soaking damage" ability, so your resilience comes from putting people down and dodging attacks.

WIS-based (simple): Long Death Monk 18 / Life Cleric 1 / Druid 1: just two casters levels for occasional buff or Life Goodberries to help a bit with restoration out of fighting, put on top of the best tank (or second best, depending on kind of enemies) in the game.

WIS-based (simple): Moon Druid 20. Oops, forgot, not a multiclass. XD

INT-based (complex): Arcane Trickster 11 / Fighter 2 / Bladesinger 7: with Action Surge, Greater Invisibility and Cunning Action combined together, you can unleash up to a 4th level spell with great chance of success, with Slow of Fear as a prime choice. You also get very decent resilience as long as you don't try to aggro: your tanking will take the form of either surprise mass debuff or concentrating on a spell that splits battlefield such as Wall ones.

INT-based (complex): Bladesinger 2 / Thief Rogue 7 / Battlemaster 3 / Bear Barbarian 8: DEX-based (secondary CON, tertiary INT) Barbarian, Expertise in Athletics, grab Longstrider and maybe Jump as a Bladesinger.
Bump DEX twice, grab Healer feat: you can now heal people on the battlefield, you are extremely resilient when the fight gets harder (+INT to AC + resistance to all damage + potential Uncanny Dodge).
Two problems of this build: Bladesong and Rage are both bonus action (so Action Surge won't help). Also, you have no way to incite people to attack you except Reckless Attack.

INT-based (variant of previous): Bladesinger 2 / Swashbuckler Rogue 6 / Bear Barbarian 12: Expertise in Athletics, max DEX, grab Mage Slayer and Sentinel.

INT-based (simple): Abjurer Wizard 18 / Fighter 2: tank wizard that goes around in heavy armor and shield, using reactions on Shield (for himself) or Protection (on others), preventing enemy attacks through direct battlefield control (Spheres, Walls) or indirect (Conjure).

INT-based (simple): Bladesinger Wizard 18 / Rogue 2: mobile wizard that relies on mobility to avoid attacks, using Haste or other spells to control: with the right Expertise and Cunning Action, paired with free Shield/Mirror Image and Fire Shield+Haste/Fly or Flaming Sphere, you could make some funny things like grappling people away from a group to prevent them from ever reaching allies, or make them fall to their death, or keep them in place while you make your Sphere come close for example.


Once you take UA...
Well, I will need much time to review all new options. For a WIS-based class, I'm pretty sure the Sheperd Druid would make a fine addition. ;)

Bladesinger is probably the single worst archetype in the game precisely because it is so untethered from the concept of the base class.

How so?
Wizard's main weakness is being extremely frail, and having his greatness usually relying on concentration. Conversely, it's usually embarrassed in melee.
Bladesong shores partially the first ("just" AC, but AC nonetheless: until level 10 at least, attacks against AC should be the majority of threats) and reinforces greatly another (+5 to AC which you can stack with Resilient:Constitution and Warcaster, or just Warcaster to instead pick Resilient:Wisdom, ending with something very close to "proficient in all 3 important saves"), while providing efficient options on the latter (proficiencies, weapon cantrips).
Song of Defense also shores the "frailness" weakness, athough this is obviously a feature for emergencies only: otherwise it's better to keep slots for actual casting imo.
Extra Attack is arguably the less interesting feature at least until you get level 14, but it has its uses.

Without feats, only an Abjurer Wizard will have better concentration, and only from high level onwards, and only against magic effects targeting saves. Bladesinger will be plain better at keeping concentration from level 2 to 14, and still better against attacks afterwards.
Basically, Bladesinger offers great features for the Wizard to actually be a better Wizard, while also giving him more options when he has to deal with a melee attacker.

[DivisibleByZero]

Just so you know, I was only skimming, and I stopped doing even that when I saw you listed lore bard as a tank.

[Hairfish]

Just so you know, I was only skimming, and I stopped doing even that when I saw you listed lore bard as a tank.

Then you missed the part in that very section on lore bards, where he stated they don't actually make good tanks.

It's interesting that you complain about other peoples' attitudes when you're such a snippy ******* to others, but not so interesting that I'm not going to put you on ignore now. Just so you know.

[JellyPooga]

Uncanny dodge is nice enough, albeit limited in use and not going to do much against any melee attacker who will have 2+ attacks at higher levels.

I hate to go on about it, but UD is so much better than this implies. All other things being equal, Uncanny Dodge is a massive multiplier for a Rogues HP, regardless of the number of opponents or how many attacks they have.

As has been mentioned, the difference between d8 and d10 is only 1HP/level. At level 5, a Rogue has 5 less HP than a Fighter or Paladin. One hit dealing a mere 10 damage puts the Rogue using UD on the same HP total as the Fighter. One. Functionally speaking (other abilities/healing aside), after the second hit a level 5+ Rogue takes in a day (assuming they don't occur in the same round, of course), he's sitting on more HP than an equivalent level Fighter or Paladin. And UD is once per round.

Claims of multiple attacks/foes being a Rogues weakness because UD is only once/round is misleading. Those multiple foes are just as lethal, if not more so, to a Fighter or Paladin. Only the Barbarian (or other sources of Resistance) deals with multiple incoming instances of damage better*

(*this is all based solely on damage actually dealt by direct attacks and does not address AC, healing, or any other ability that might mitigate hit ratios and so forth.)

As for Evasion; yeah, it's only vs. Direct damage AoE but zero damage vs. some damage is a massive difference. Especially when you have more effective HP than the guys that have a higher HP total written on their character sheet, because of UD. Who's the one doing the shrugging again?

[Citan]

Just so you know, I was only skimming, and I stopped doing even that when I saw you listed lore bard as a tank.

Now we can all understand why a constructive discussion is impossible with you. It's nice of you to finally acknowledge that you don't bother trying to read and understand what other people write, it's the first step towards progress. Good job. :)

[DivisibleByZero]

Then you missed the part in that very section on lore bards, where he stated they don't actually make good tanks.

Then why did he list it at all?
"Which tanks can lock down multiple enemies in the way that you're describing?"
-- "Lore Bards aren't tanks, but they can"
If they aren't tanks, then they aren't an answer to the question.

Druids? Moon only, and for 15-17 levels they're terrible.
Cleric? Spirit guardians to tank?
Monks? They're good backup tanks, but their ki being what makes them good as backup tanks and their relatively low AC (comparably) limits their usefulness as main.

He wasn't answering the question, he looking for things to argue about. In so doing, he makes a few questionable choices, and one so ridiculous it invalidated his entire post, so I stopped reading.

[mgshamster]

I still maintain that my bard would attract a lot of attacks. :)

[Ralanr]

Good point. They could just change "Ancestral" to "Spiritual" then it could be nature spirits, ancestors, or Ghosts your character has enslaved.

Or your character is possessed by spirits that need to keep him alive for their own purposes.

Granted it's still one of those "draws power from something else when barbarians are supposed to draw power from themselves" type of deals. But it feels less guilty than forcing granny out of her dirt nap.

[Citan]

Then why did he list it at all?
"Which tanks can lock down multiple enemies in the way that you're describing?"
-- "Lore Bards aren't tanks, but they can"
If they aren't tanks, then they aren't an answer to the question.

Druids? Moon only, and for 15-17 levels they're terrible.
Cleric? Spirit guardians to tank?
Monks? They're good backup tanks, but their ki being what makes them good as backup tanks and their relatively low AC (comparably) limits their usefulness as main.

He wasn't answering the question, he looking for things to argue about. In so doing, he makes a few questionable choices, and one so ridiculous it invalidated his entire post, so I stopped reading.

You should stop looking for excuses for being non-constructive (to stay polite), because they are very bad ones.

Beyond the fact that your critic could easily be turned against you (you first started in the thread saying that "Rogue is the best tank" and presenting a multiclass build), I talked about Bard because they can easily shine in one particular aspect of tanking which is damage prevention, thanks to several spells from either list or Magic Secrets, plus short-rest Cutting Words and natural host for Inspiring Leader.
Furthermore, a Lore Bard could actually be built "as a tank" up to a very decent level of efficiency just with feats, but I didn't detail it because, like your Rogue, I feel it's going very far to stretch a class towards a specific goal and somewhat diminishing its overall greatness.
Or like your Rogue, Lore Bard could dip into another class to shore some of its main weakness, with AC being first in line. But that's another story.

By the way...
- Any Conjure Spell means having a few more friends on the battlefield you could dedicate to being meat shield, fast transport or lockdown grapplers. So a Druid can "tank" in a very effective way, even if he's not actually doing it himself. And when he gets better forms, it's easier for him so maintain concentration, running away/hiding/going underground or high in the air if necessary.

- Clerics: as I said, Spirit Guardians seems counter-intuitive at first because enemies would rather avoid you. But it creates difficult terrain. So a Cleric could easily act as a moving barrier, either Grappling creatures to keep them in check, drawing them with Thorns Whip (Nature), then preventing at least one of them to flee thanks to Sentinel.

- Monks: they start with only decent AC so as tanks would need to blow more Ki than usual on Dodge, but they end as plain better overall than any other class simply because towards the end, nasty effects targeting saves become as (or more?) common than "plain attacks, against which they impose disadvantage against a 19-20 AC.

I'm really sorry I didn't detail everything by the menu like I was talking to someone that don't know D&d; I was actually expecting you to make the effort and use your brain to make the maths like everybody else here is doing. ;)