Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

[Glimbur]

I am thinking about a class that is a mix between warlock and Geomancer from the final fantasy games. It is going to take a lot of herbs.

[Almarck]

I am thinking about a class that is a mix between warlock and Gemoancer from the final fantasy games. It is going to take a lot of herbs.

If you aren't ashamed of using someone else's work, you can use this to form the basis of your herbs or copy them outright.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...-PFRPG-Edition

The main issue is that herbalism classes find primarily herbs rather than grow them themselves (that and unless you try to find the book alternative ways, you need you shell out some cash to read it)

Finding herbs would be an issue since you can't really technically make "harvest" a core theme since in order to harvest, you first must sow. If you "harvest" plants you didn't plan or maintain, it's more foraging.

[ElFi]

If you aren't ashamed of using someone else's work, you can use this to form the basis of your herbs or copy them outright.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...-PFRPG-Edition

The main issue is that herbalism classes find primarily herbs rather than grow them themselves (that and unless you try to find the book alternative ways, you need you shell out some cash to read it)

Finding herbs would be an issue since you can't really technically make "harvest" a core theme since in order to harvest, you first must sow. If you "harvest" plants you didn't plan or maintain, it's more foraging.

Ditto taking inspiration from the Ultimate Herbalism system if you want to make a herb-finding/using class. You can find all the rules for free here, just scroll down the page a little.

Not sure whether or not I'm going to try and make a class for this contest. Was thinking of something culinary-based, but it might not pan out.

[Morphic tide]

Something I'd quite like to see in a later contest would be having the theme be base-prestige classes. Stuff that innately scales well with other base classes, such that it can be used in replacement of a standard prestige class, like my own Supernal Thief from Undetermined Scruples. Psionics, Tome of Battle and Incarnum are natural systems for this, due to their less-than-complete separation of classes in mechanics, but variant Bards, Rogues and Barbarians could also work due to their own various not-actually-class-specific features.

[Temotei]

Something I'd quite like to see in a later contest would be having the theme be base-prestige classes. Stuff that innately scales well with other base classes, such that it can be used in replacement of a standard prestige class, like my own Supernal Thief from Undetermined Scruples. Psionics, Tome of Battle and Incarnum are natural systems for this, due to their less-than-complete separation of classes in mechanics, but variant Bards, Rogues and Barbarians could also work due to their own various not-actually-class-specific features.

I think Jarian did some things like that a while back. Elocator and Swiftblade, if I remember correctly. This could be a cool theme, though mechanical themes are rare for this contest.

[rferries]

Harvester; mechanically my main concerns would be the the dead levels after level 12 as well as some concern regarding the power-level of Trick or Treat. While the provisos do cut down on some of the most severe potential abuses, it still gives access to highest available spells 3 + Cha mod times a day.

I take your point about the SLAs but I'm not too worried. It's still less powerful and versatile than a Favoured Soul or similar T2 caster. Plus, SLAs mean I don't have to make more overcomplicated class features haha.

Another potential issue is that Dark Grace gives a bit much right at level 1, I'd be inclined to split up the AC and save bonuses and move one or both to slightly higher levels.

I concur, I would do something like 'A.C. equal to your class level or Cha mod, whichever is lower'

Righto. I've pushed Dark Grace back to 3rd level. I'm not too worried about abuse; since it grants typed bonuses it won't stack with items in the way that Divine Grace or Monk AC do.

Thanks guys, and for my notes...

Haruspex
-Great flavour (as per usual!).
-Recalling spells - this is a unique spin on bonus spells/day, and a great compromise between prepared and spontaneous casters, but I worry it might be a bit too complex. It might be better to make them into spontaneous casters following Favoured Soul/Spirit Shaman precedent, but YMMV.
-The abilities are quite extensive, so I'd advise breaking them up into smaller paragraphs.
-need some minor edits (e.g. Sow Energy mentions Lay on Hands)
-Reaping Aura - do creatures take 1 damage per round, or +1 damage whenever they are damaged? The latter would be a nightmare to keep track of WRT to healing the Haruspex
-Harvest Soul - does this have a limit of uses/day?
-overall top-notch work

Zenzenman
I too will have to plead ignorance of the Mythos subsystem. However I like what I see (even if I've no idea if it's balanced or not :D).

Cultivator
I'm dying to see how this turns out - the potted plants will have unique abilities, I take it?

[Alabenson]

Haruspex
-Great flavour (as per usual!).
-Recalling spells - this is a unique spin on bonus spells/day, and a great compromise between prepared and spontaneous casters, but I worry it might be a bit too complex. It might be better to make them into spontaneous casters following Favoured Soul/Spirit Shaman precedent, but YMMV.
-The abilities are quite extensive, so I'd advise breaking them up into smaller paragraphs.
-need some minor edits (e.g. Sow Energy mentions Lay on Hands)
-Reaping Aura - do creatures take 1 damage per round, or +1 damage whenever they are damaged? The latter would be a nightmare to keep track of WRT to healing the Haruspex
-Harvest Soul - does this have a limit of uses/day?
-overall top-notch work

Well, my face is a little red regarding some of these, particularly the Harvest Soul ability which was supposed to have a use/per day limit but I forgot to include it. That oversight has been fixed, along with some editing in Sow Energy and a tweak to the wording for Reaping Aura to improve clarity.
Regarding the haruspex's spell recall ability, I don't know about it being too complex. Essentially, the haruspex is a prepared caster, but instead of receiving bonus spells they essentially have the ability to recall spells they've case as though using pearls of power. I'll admit it's not something seen before, but in practice it shouldn't be too out there.

As for the the Cultivator, I can't really make any concrete assessments at this stage, but I do have a few concerns regarding 1) the portability of the Cultivator's pots, 2) it looks like it has quite a few dead levels and 3) the fact that it appears to be a very passive class.

[Almarck]

Cultivator
I'm dying to see how this turns out - the potted plants will have unique abilities, I take it?

Yes. Yes they will. Some will be boring and give you bonuses when using the feeding ability. Others will be more active. It all really depends on how you want to build.

As for the the Cultivator, I can't really make any concrete assessments at this stage, but I do have a few concerns regarding 1) the portability of the Cultivator's pots, 2) it looks like it has quite a few dead levels and 3) the fact that it appears to be a very passive class.

Dead levels were rather intentional both for balance, and because the main advancement is not too dissimilar to being a caster. You don't NEED most levels to have abilities in the first place, since you're either getting more pots or better pots every time you level up regardless. More abilities or the lack of dead levels does not make a class better and it is a design trap to think it is. Sides, alot of the dead levels are timed such that you unlock the next level of pot useage instead of a wordy class feature, so the real class features there would be "Plants Level +1"


As to portability, well, you're talking about 80 pounds later on, 40 early game, but the simulationism was required to make the theme work... You cannot garden if you can't tend crops. I actually tried in the earlier drafts to use "spectral" plants, but then, I kept wondering to myself why wasn't I just hacking druid and not actually farming.

You are correct however, and as a result, I am now adding a class feature to handle both dead levels and portability.




As to passivity. That's what I intend to use Upbringing to counter. which I just posted. Alot of these abilities are buggy and broken or need a second thought.

[Temotei]

My biggest suggestion would be to remove half of those spoilers or more. There's no need to hide your entry in a bunch of spoilers. One or two for the alternate Pathfinder rules would be enough, in my opinion. That's maybe just personal preference, though.

[Lanth Sor]

I updated to non mythos class I would appreciate some critique.

[rferries]

Sanguinaire
-GORGEOUS art!

-minor edits (e.g. in the class table there's a typo on the 3rd level feature)

-no alignment prereq?

-floating weapon proficiencies allow choices (good) but aren't in line with a particular flavour. Note I and Alabenson both went for scythes - I suggest whips, daggers, sickles or a similar blood-drawing/"sacrificial" weapon for you. Totally optional of course.

-Blood Bonded Object - can this be a weapon? a piece of armour? or only a non-combat item e.g. an amulet?

-Blood Pool - this oozes (bleeds?) flavour but can be very annoying for PCs (have to regularly "hunt", unlike spellcasters and their spell slots) or DMs (if PCs recharge too often and spam their abilities). I would set it as once per day they must sacrifice a living creature of their type (or deal X damage to themselves) to replenish their Pool.

-Blood Talents - very creative options! There's too many to critique them all but I was sold from the start (Assume Blood Heritage is brilliant!).

-Blood Transformation -references Blood Points stored in your Bonded Object, but the Object entry doesn't mention being able to store points. EDIT: nevermind, I read further on.
-the Sprite option doesn't feel very thematic; I can at least appreciate a Blood Angel.

-Blood Object - a lot of references to "Object", a lot to "Weapon". I might make it explicit that it has to be a weapon.
-the energy damage doesn't feel thematic
-the SR should just be class level +5/10/15... the Ego doesn't amount to much protection.

-no option to summon blood elementals? ;_; (refluffed water elementals)
Overall I like it!

[Lanth Sor]

WIP

Sanguinaire
-GORGEOUS art!

I just found it one day, but that reminds me I need to credit it. I really want to make a character based on it.

-minor edits (e.g. in the class table there's a typo on the 3rd level feature)

thanx

-no alignment prereq?

No, they aren't the bad guys they just manipulate blood.

-floating weapon proficiencies allow choices (good) but aren't in line with a particular flavour. Note I and Alabenson both went for scythes - I suggest whips, daggers, sickles or a similar blood-drawing/"sacrificial" weapon for you. Totally optional of course.

-Blood Bonded Object - can this be a weapon? a piece of armour? or only a non-combat item e.g. an amulet?
-Blood Object - a lot of references to "Object", a lot to "Weapon". I might make it explicit that it has to be a weapon.

This was based on the Magus(PF) black blade, im

-Blood Pool - this oozes (bleeds?) flavour but can be very annoying for PCs (have to regularly "hunt", unlike spellcasters and their spell slots) or DMs (if PCs recharge too often and spam their abilities). I would set it as once per day they must sacrifice a living creature of their type (or deal X damage to themselves) to replenish their Pool.

I understand what you mean so I'll leave it as a optional rule to recharge daily, i like your idea, the core of the class blood pool is to have Alucard types, where they have accumulated billions of blood points to only unleashe them in a grand display of awsome. Inversely if they collect blood points too slowly they can quickly find themselves starving.

-Blood Talents - very creative options! There's too many to critique them all but I was sold from the start (Assume Blood Heritage is brilliant!).

Thanx

-Blood Transformation -references Blood Points stored in your Bonded Object, but the Object entry doesn't mention being able to store points. EDIT: nevermind, I read further on.
-the Sprite option doesn't feel very thematic; I can at least appreciate a Blood Angel.

The different options are to represent different types of play. The sprite is for nondirect combat wall most of the others are focused on more brutal combat. Also I'm Terrified for the blood mage that just becomes harder to hit after "hulking out"

-the energy damage doesn't feel thematic

Yeah this is a relic from the black blade, I need to revisit this.

-the SR should just be class level +5/10/15... the Ego doesn't amount to much protection.

More Relics of the original ability

-no option to summon blood elementals? ;_; (refluffed water elementals)
Overall I like it!

Its in the works.

[Almarck]

Gotten initial plants set up. I plan to eventually double the list and maybe do some rebalancing. Alot of it is seemingly OP I will admit, but part of the theme is patience, so... you're dealing alot of your damage in DoT's

[UristMcRandom]

Chiming into this contest, I need to get my homebrew muscles flexed, it's been too long. First version of the Autumnarche is up. The concept started as basically a hack of the druid and the warlock, but the tale sort of grew in the telling and it picked up some alchemy flavor along the way. I'll get a list of invocations sorted out at some point in the near future. For now, I hope you like the class as it stands.

---

Edit: Starting a list of invocations, removed some vestigial text from Healer's Touch that referred to the Warlock class. Nowhere near complete, but progress.

[Alabenson]

For what its worth, I've made a last-minute tweak to the Haruspex allowing it to render a small number of creatures unaffected by it's reaping aura to improve usability.

[Alabenson]

And Alabenson said Let there be a voting thread

[Alabenson]

Just a reminder, voting for the latest contest will be open until next Friday so please vote if you haven't already.

[Alabenson]

And voting is now closed. Tied for first place are the Harvester by rferries and the Haruspex by myself. Coming in second we have the Sanguinare by Lanth Sor, and third place goes to the Autumnarche by UristMcRandom. Unfortunately, Almarck did not place a vote and so the Cultivator is not eligible to place. Good job to everyone, to echo some of the comments in the voting thread I think all of the entries we had for this contest were quite good.

So, to start off the suggestions for the next contest, I'd like to suggest Travel as a possible theme.

[UristMcRandom]

Since we're heading into the new year, I'm personally fond of themes involving rebirth, cycles, or time. But, I could definitely be persuaded towards travel as well.

[rferries]

I'm going to be troublesome and add two more suggestions: Aquatic Campaigns and Dragons.

[Lanth Sor]

1> Dragons
2> Travel
3> Time

[UristMcRandom]

Those pesky time-travelling dragons...

Jokes aside, I'm completely good with a Dragons theme, just to give something a clear majority. But if we do it, I'd like to propose that the contest be titled "Dungeons And".

[lopa12]

In the spirit of a fresh new thread, the Transcendent has a fresh new capstone. Feel free to let me know what you think, I'm still not sure on how good it is.

[Lanth Sor]

Thought, unique rule for this brew, we have to actually make a dragon monster class, type is up to author.

[Alabenson]

So, by my count we have
Travel; 2
Rebirth/cycles/time; 1
Aquatic: 1
Dragons; 3
Dragons (monster class); 1

I'm counting doing a monster class based on dragons as a separate thing, since that would be significantly different from what we normally do. I'll leave voting to continue until Friday so I can see what everyone else thinks about the idea.

[UristMcRandom]

I'm personally more in favor of dragons as a generic theme than I am of a dragon monster class. While a separate thread for a monster class contest would certainly be welcome, I'm not sure it fits here.

That and I already have a couple ideas for a dragon-based base class that I'd like to try.

[Lanth Sor]

Touche lets just proceed with dragon in general.

[rferries]

Plus we can always submit dragon monster classes in the generic dragon contest.

[rferries]

Those pesky time-travelling dragons...

Nozdormu and Chromie: "You rang?"

But if we do it, I'd like to propose that the contest be titled "Dungeons And".

Seconded!

[Lanth Sor]

Chromie is my waifu