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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Tome of Battle is too popular. It's done to death.


    Still....


    Hm, for a theme, what about oceans? Sea? Things involving water or would be very useful in a naval or sea based campaign. We can call it "Job for Aquaman"
    Last edited by Almarck; 2017-07-23 at 12:36 PM.
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  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Almarck View Post
    Tome of Battle is too popular. It's done to death.


    Still....


    Hm, for a theme, what about oceans? Sea? Things involving water or would be very useful in a naval or sea based campaign. We can call it "Job for Aquaman"
    my vote on tome of magic I already have a class ready to submit.
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    RedKnightGirl

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    Post Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Alright. Done.

    The last version of the Antiquarian is done. I've been uploading all day. Let me try and catalogue the changes.

    Flavor: Races and Religion sections update.
    Antique Restoration: Better explained how others using antiquarian artifacts works, and how the antiquarian can 'change' their selection of artifacts (encounter replacements it still up to DM fiat).
    Artifacts: All artifacts have had their descriptions separated from their base power in order read better and interact with the rules better. Some artifacts, particularly those that granted spells or had interaction with spells were given new abilities or renamed.
    Feats: Several new feats added, language clarified. Enjoy!
    Racial Substitution Levels: Two plane touched races got a little boost to their Antiquarian dreams.
    Alternate Class Features: Wanna hit people with a thousand year old staff more and worry about traps less? This section was made for you.

    I hope everyone enjoyed this class. It was tough to make but an absolute delight.
    Good luck to my competitors and thanks for holding the competition!

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Lanth Sor's Avatar

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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Super sad I had my final inspiration 24 hour prior to end.

    My Home Brew: Here

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Temotei's Avatar

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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    We're going to try something a bit different this time. Voting will work in the same manner--everyone in the contest must vote to qualify, and each voter makes three votes. First place vote receives three points, second place vote receives two points, and the third place vote receives one point. This time, though, voters will PM me a message with their votes. At the end, after totaling up all the points, I'll post the point results in this thread on August 7th at 23:59 Central Standard Time (GMT -5:00).

    Feel free to discuss classes as much as desired in this thread, as usual, even if you think that might give away information about how you voted. I don't want discussion to be stunted because of this.

    For voting convenience, here's a table of the contestants' entries:

    Base Class Author
    Transcendent Eno Remnant
    Knitted Knight Mangles
    Wizard of the Coast Jormengand
    Antiquarian (Artifacts, Options) Knitifine
    Artist Macabre Lanth Sor
    Photorealist (Paintings, Other) bekeleven
    Last edited by Temotei; 2017-07-24 at 11:53 PM.
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  6. - Top - End - #36
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    RedKnightGirl

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    Post Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Very cool. I like this kind of voting system. May I request that the "Others" on Antiquarian's list be labeled "Options"?
    Also what is the voting deadline?

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Temotei's Avatar

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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Knitifine View Post
    Very cool. I like this kind of voting system. May I request that the "Others" on Antiquarian's list be labeled "Options"?
    Also what is the voting deadline?
    Changed.

    Oh, right. I'll edit the date into that last post.
    Base Class Contest XXXXII - Entropy and Renewal
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  8. - Top - End - #38
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    PirateGuy

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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    I'm glad you gave us plenty of time to read the other entries.

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Photorealist's first link is to "Paintings." The other one is admittedly a grab-bag, but I was running into character limits with 2 and figured there was no need for me to make separate posts a couple paragraphs long for a bunch of different categories.

    I've read through the shorter classes and made a few preliminary notes on them. I'll finish up the rest and then hopefully go for a second pass and compare them.

  10. - Top - End - #40
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    I was writing a grant and missed my opportunity to unleash my Flawa'a Rainja Ikebana specialist on you, because i couldn't finish it until after the grant deadline.

    Class is built around building a flower altar to produce a localized specialized effect. Just needed an extra week...

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by daremetoidareyo View Post
    I was writing a grant and missed my opportunity to unleash my Flawa'a Rainja Ikebana specialist on you, because i couldn't finish it until after the grant deadline.

    Class is built around building a flower altar to produce a localized specialized effect. Just needed an extra week...
    Dang. If you had posted asking for another week, I would have freely given it.
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  12. - Top - End - #42
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    RedKnightGirl

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    Post Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Temotei View Post
    Dang. If you had posted asking for another week, I would have freely given it.
    Potential solution: The next contest could be plant themed.

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    I still want to have a water or aquatic theme "Job of Aquaman" style.
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  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Lanth Sor's Avatar

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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    How about contest in green, All things nature

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    bekeleven's Avatar

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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    I'm trying to figure out the antiquarian. Half the feats don't work if you have the Antique Restoration class feature, which is not optional, and is not traded away by any of the racial sub levels. How do I get these feats?

    I'm sure I'm missing something really obvious.

  16. - Top - End - #46
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    RedKnightGirl

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    Post Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by bekeleven View Post
    I'm trying to figure out the antiquarian. Half the feats don't work if you have the Antique Restoration class feature, which is not optional, and is not traded away by any of the racial sub levels. How do I get these feats?

    I'm sure I'm missing something really obvious.
    Correction: 3 of the 13 feats (Less than a quarter) do not work if you have Antique Restoration.
    Clarification: This is because those three feats are not meant for Antiquarians, they're meant for players who want to dip their toe into the Antiquarian's mechanics. You can find feats like these in most alternative magic systems. Essentially, they're included because they play off the Antiquarian's mechanics and show those mechanics have value and application outside of it's base class.

    P.S. Sorry if I sound like a weird robot for posting it that way. I couldn't think of how to reformat it.

  17. - Top - End - #47
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Temotei View Post
    Dang. If you had posted asking for another week, I would have freely given it.
    Awww. Thanks.

    It seemed selfish to request when there was as much material as was there already. I didn't want to be that guy.

  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by daremetoidareyo View Post
    Awww. Thanks.

    It seemed selfish to request when there was as much material as was there already. I didn't want to be that guy.
    Nah, it's been done plenty of times before and nobody thinks those people are being selfish (or at least, I hope not). We always welcome more entries.
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  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Temotei View Post
    I don't want discussion to be stunted because of this.
    That's unfortunate, given the apparent circumstances.
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  20. - Top - End - #50
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    RedKnightGirl

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    Post Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Temotei View Post
    Base Class Author
    Transcendent Eno Remnant
    Knitted Knight Mangles
    Wizard of the Coast Jormengand
    Antiquarian (Artifacts, Options) Knitifine
    Artist Macabre Lanth Sor
    Photorealist (Paintings, Other) bekeleven
    Checking out some of these classes. Gonna do a deep dive into them later.

    Transcendent: I like the flavor of the transcendent, but I loathe dead levels. The first two I can get over, but the third one is killing me because it comes at a level where you really don't get anything else.
    Additionally, I think you could have just made a spell-list for this class, or let them use druid spells without the level increase since druid spells are... kind of weak to be honest.

    Knitted Knight: Would have liked to see more cold resistance and fire vulnerability interactions in this class (especially with the familiar). I really like the concept, just wish it had more followers and perhaps a custom living construct race associated with it. I feel like there's a lot of potential in this idea. I like the alternate class features, though I would have specified that the hook does piercing and/or bludgeoning damage, since slashing doesn't seem appropriate for a crochet hook.

    Wizard of the Coast: this is a fun unglued style class that I really enjoy... but since it's too wacky and rule bending to actually play in a game, which kills it for me.

    Antiquarian: I think it'd be in poor taste for me to review my own class.

    Artist Macabre: This is a neat little class. It's a little too unfocused for my tastes, the BAB seems too low and the way Dance of Blood works seems... overly complex.

    Photorealist: This class is super cool, and I really like it. The only gripe I have is that it's a bit... style over substance. I would like to see more than one option of each level per style, and I feel like part of why that wasn't included was because of all the artwork which went into making this class pop.

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  22. - Top - End - #52
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    PirateGuy

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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    I'd rather get critical notes than none. I had a long break between homebrewing and I know I'm rusty. Only way to improve is with constructive criticism. If you feel bad posting em here you can PM m

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    RedKnightGirl

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    Post Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Mangles View Post
    I'd rather get critical notes than none. I had a long break between homebrewing and I know I'm rusty. Only way to improve is with constructive criticism. If you feel bad posting em here you can PM m
    I feel the same as Mangles expressed here.

  24. - Top - End - #54
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Knitifine View Post
    Transcendent: I like the flavor of the transcendent, but I loathe dead levels. The first two I can get over, but the third one is killing me because it comes at a level where you really don't get anything else.
    Additionally, I think you could have just made a spell-list for this class, or let them use druid spells without the level increase since druid spells are... kind of weak to be honest.
    As it happens, originally all of the dead levels coincided with a new spell level. But as more class features were added, and I considered what was appropriate at what level, things got switched around a bit. I hate dead levels too, but I figure a class that ended up being Bard+, minus the Inspire Courage, should probably take its lumps.

    Were I to put further work into the class, I'd probably take some of those higher level class features down a couple of levels, add some features more worthy of the original levels, and have it all set up so that your dead levels were spell level increases.

    As for the spell list, I had originally started on one working from Core and Spell Compendium. About halfway through the 1st level spells, I thought to myself "This is almost exactly the Bard and Ranger lists, with a bit of Druid thrown in." So I decided it was just easier to work with pre-established list than to pore through pages of the Site-That-must-Not-Be-Named to devise my own list.

    I actually hadn't realised Druid spells were weak. I made an assumption about their power level due to their being a Tier 1 class. Though since the Transcendent only hits 6th level spells, I suppose it wouldn't have had much chance to get out of hand. I guess if I were to do it again, I'd just drop the Ranger spell list and have Druid spells at the same level as Druid gets them.




    As for discussion on everyone else's classes, I had been meaning to offer my two coppers. When I was deciding on where to put my vote, I actually devised a rating system like the one used in the Villainous Competition, to help inform my decision. I won't share what each rating was, since I was being particularly harsh in the spirit of assuring a well-considered result. However, I will share how I judged, since it might help you grasp my thought process when I get around to sharing my thoughts (and I fully intend to).

    I created six categories, with a rating of 1 to 5, to a potential total of 30: Theme (for how well the concept and the class features conformed to the theme), Effort (both in the amount of detail and the amount of content), Polish (which ranged from spelling, to aesthetic appearance, to how easy a class feature was to read and understand), Balance (which hardly bares explanation), Fun (as a matter of opinion, of course. This one and Theme were really the most important factors), and Versatility (with the Bard as the benchmark at around 3-4).

    For the sake of a baseline, I actually judged my own class, and it came out at 21/30, and I allowed for two or three points above or below that - to account for personal bias or excessive critique. At the very least, it goes to show that I wasn't blinded by love for my own creation

    When I find the time, I'll let you guys know what I thought of your classes. I can certainly say, for the time being, that they were all great concepts.
    Last edited by Eno Remnant; 2017-07-28 at 06:56 AM.
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    Eno said what I was going to say, better, and faster, too.
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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Eno Remnant View Post
    I actually hadn't realised Druid spells were weak. I made an assumption about their power level due to their being a Tier 1 class. Though since the Transcendent only hits 6th level spells, I suppose it wouldn't have had much chance to get out of hand. I guess if I were to do it again, I'd just drop the Ranger spell list and have Druid spells at the same level as Druid gets them.
    I don't think druid spells are weak at all. They're not on par with the Sor/Wiz lists and maybe a cleric who chooses strong domains, but it's not like that makes them weak. They're still casting entangle, impeding stones, wall of smoke, blinding spittle, kelpstrand, luminous armor, snake's swiftness, mass, and plenty of other spells, and the ones listed are only 1st- and 2nd-level spells.
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    RedKnightGirl

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    Post Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Temotei View Post
    I don't think druid spells are weak at all. They're not on par with the Sor/Wiz lists and maybe a cleric who chooses strong domains, but it's not like that makes them weak. They're still casting entangle, impeding stones, wall of smoke, blinding spittle, kelpstrand, luminous armor, snake's swiftness, mass, and plenty of other spells, and the ones listed are only 1st- and 2nd-level spells.
    Perhaps I phrased it wrong. I don't think druid spells are weak, but I don't think they're so strong that they need a level bump to fit into a 1/2 or 3/4th caster's spell list.
    Last edited by Knitifine; 2017-07-28 at 06:37 PM.

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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Base Class Contest XXXXII - Entropy and Renewal
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  28. - Top - End - #58
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    RedKnightGirl

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    Post Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Temotei View Post
    Wait, new contest before the old contest results come out?

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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Knitifine View Post
    Wait, new contest before the old contest results come out?
    Yup. Been doing that for a couple contests now. I actually messed up on the due date for this contest, though. I'm supposed to pretend like I'm posting the thread for the contest at the end of the voting period so people won't get penalized for having to take time to vote. I'll fix it.
    Base Class Contest XXXXII - Entropy and Renewal
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  30. - Top - End - #60
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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Nature themed? Well, there's plenty of design space with classes focused on pieces of Druid or Spirit Shaman, as well as fixing Ranger or Spirit Shaman. Totem Barbarian as a base class unto itself also works.

    As an example, one of the weirder ideas I've had for a while is a class that shifts HD between multiple creatures. In the context of making classes based on parts of Druid, it'd be making a class that has a limited pool of bonus HD to distribute between itself and it's animal companion(s), with Wildshape being limited by how many HD are on the character. These HD would carry statistics similar to the Animal Companion progression, only being described as per-HD and as BAB instead of Strength. So stacking enough of these HD onto oneself would legitimately give added iteratives, with a catch of that being a needed thing for the class's effective chassis to work in melee at all, while having it's other abilities be about flanking and making ranged stuff work at half-BAB in a way that allows it to work with full-BAB melee while not being OP. Possibly by having it have a sweet spot of two or three range increments that it goes down for being closer or farther than, which makes crossbows a bad pick for normal combat because being more than 100 ft. away is rare in regular combat. Also makes thrown weapons work for melee-focused builds by making them worth spending an action on while getting into Charge range, which makes me think switch-hitter would be a good "optimized" role. Swift-action Thrown or Ranged attack?

    Another idea is a class devoted to the nasty side of nature. Bundles of toxins and diseases. With the Alignment restriction, if present, being Any Non-Chaotic, divorcing it from Evil by being very much about how horrible things exist in nature and how things are supposed to die and stay dead. This means pairing diseases and poisons with anti-Undead abilities in a way that actually works and makes sense. Possibly through Acid damage being an option among the poison options, which doesn't lack precedent in nature. Spiders actually perform digestion externally by injecting digestive fluids into captured prey, then sucking out the digested slush from the corpse. One could have bonus damage vs. particular "unnatural" creature types be a set of options. Undead, Constructs and Outsiders, perhaps. Maybe Fey if you want to be absolute about it, but D&D Fey are more "Supra"natural than supernatural. Above it, rather than outside it. Elementals are in a similar, more absolute and obvious, position of being part of nature, but past "normal" nature. Like, Fey and Elementals are extraordinary nature, not supernatural, despite their typical ability type being Supernatural and Spell-Like. Supernatural as in better-than-normal nature, rather than beyond-what-is-natural...

    As for ideas for Totem Barbarian as a solo-class themed on nature, it can be built around Totem Druid being turned into a Gish-in-a-can by merging with Totem Barbarian. Wildshape and Animal Companion restricted to Totem Animal, Rage coming with Totem Animal traits, probably Bard casting off of Druid's list, perhaps with Spirit Shaman's Spells Known mechanism, stuff with trading spell slots for buffs, maybe getting per-spell-level spontaneous healing that lets them have a decent ability to tank without needing to deal with specific Cure spells.

    I suppose I'll work on something that can be all three of these ideas at once. With the basic table set up first while I decide how, exactly, I'm going to make this all work as one class. Maybe I'll have the second idea as a variant with different Totem picks and the primary class being deeply focused on flanking switch-hitter stuff.
    My most liked class, thematically, is the Artificer. Make free items! (fail by RAW to)Hold up the setting! Have access to every magic item...
    My most liked class, mechanically, is the Bard. I sing the enemy to death! (at level 21)I talk you into a suicidal fanatic! I need to cheese rules that make me sing as I fight or talk to get things done...

    I prefer t2 over anything else, because t2 lets you become anything. I think Psionics is more versatile than magic.

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