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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Knitifine View Post
    This is an assumption without any substantial evidence. There has been only a single contest in which the changes were implemented. That's a current sample size of 1 which is nowhere near enough to show anything.
    I mean, apart from the people literally saying that it's not a coincidence that they didn't give the critique they normally would...

    Spoiler: In which a real scientist does science
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    First there's the fact that the sample size isn't one, it's forty, because you count every member of both groups when counting a sample size. The group size is one, and also [insert problems with observational studies here], but the sample size is... I mean, I wouldn't trust a scientific study with sample size 40, but I don't have much of a choice and I'm not trying to be massively precise. Second, there's nothing stopping a single result in one group being meaningful for a known prior trend; if it's multiple standard deviations out of line it can easily hit the critical region (assuming p=0.05) on its own. Third, the fact that the change is noticeable with a single result actually implies that the change was a very drastic one. If it weren't then it would only be noticeable after a long time.


    But then there's the fact that you're trying to apply scientific rigour to something that was a relatively trivially obvious observation about something that doesn't really merit the scientific method, so I don't know what that says about you.
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  2. - Top - End - #92
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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Totals were:

    Antiquarian - 13 points
    Photorealist - 7 points + tiebreaker vote from me for 2nd
    Wizard of the Coast - 1 point
    Transcendent - 7 points
    Knitted Knight - 6 points
    Artist Macabre - 2 points
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  3. - Top - End - #93
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    Post Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    I mean, apart from the people literally saying that it's not a coincidence that they didn't give the critique they normally would...
    I have not seen anyone claim that. Seems to be a bogus claim to me.
    Last edited by Knitifine; 2017-08-08 at 05:03 PM.

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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Knitifine View Post
    I have not seen anyone claim that. Seems to be a bogus claim to me.
    Jorm is referencing bekeleven saying they didn't post their critiques because they were very critical.

    Quote Originally Posted by bekeleven View Post
    I wrote up some notes, but (like my notes always are) they're critical of everything so I feel like it's not wise for me to post them.
    Last edited by Temotei; 2017-08-08 at 05:11 PM.
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  5. - Top - End - #95
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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Knitifine View Post
    I have not seen anyone claim that. Seems to be a bogus claim to me.
    Isn't it just a pity that someone did that right before I made the post saying so?

    I mean, good god, if you're going to accuse me of lying at least make sure the truth isn't staring you straight in the face.
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  6. - Top - End - #96
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    Post Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    Isn't it just a pity that someone did that right before I made the post saying so?

    I mean, good god, if you're going to accuse me of lying at least make sure the truth isn't staring you straight in the face.
    Please link to the post you are describing because I see no such post.

  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Mangles View Post
    I kept the good points out of my critique for just such reasons. I felt that saying anything good would tip my hand as to who I voted for, so only put up negative critique.
    *Whistles.*
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  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Post Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    *Whistles.*
    Okay. Well there's a couple of points I want to address.

    That is not the post right before you complained, it is considerably after you started complaining.
    That post is not a reflection on the voting method because it has been stated that you were free to disclose your own votes, rather it's more of a comment on the persons personality. Additionally, their comment had to do with phrasing something carefully, I (the designer in question) would have read both statements the same. "Hey you forgot this rule thing, that sucks". Yeah, I got it thank you, either way.

    Finally, I am tabling this discussion because it has devolved into condescension and hostility which I certainly did not invite.

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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Knitifine View Post
    Okay. Well there's a couple of points I want to address.

    That is not the post right before you complained, it is considerably after you started complaining.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    Isn't it just a pity that someone did that right before I made the post saying so?
    You'll notice that the post saying someone did that was #91 and the post in which they did was #90.

    That post is not a reflection on the voting method because it has been stated that you were free to disclose your own votes, rather it's more of a comment on the persons personality.
    Some things are still antecedent to other things even though there are other antecedents.

    Finally, I am tabling this discussion because it has devolved into condescension and hostility which I certainly did not invite.
    Right, because accusing someone of lying, while the truth is staring you right in the face, isn't hostile either. But fine, please do table this discussion: you were never positively contributing to it in the first place.
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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    I publicly posted my votes because I missed the line saying we should message him them. When I saw it and chose not to message him because I had already posted publicly. Later I got a message saying I had not voted. I had not voted the way he had intended so I do not begrudge him for that but I think private voting kills the points mean nothing status of the competition. People should focus on the craft and hope people like thier class. The skillful voting to prevent someone form winning is a way you can make your votes have more impact. For instance Jor had an amazing class, but because the class was so META I couldn't support it on a whole. And well there was my critique of my class...sad panda.

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    Post Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    The Egregore's class description, features and swarm companion are more or less finished. Any feedback on that or the WIP power list would be helpful.

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    Post Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    I'm really excited about Feyblessed. I think Fey are definately underutilized.

    Hm... I wonder if I could run a homebrew creature contest...

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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Knitifine View Post
    I'm really excited about Feyblessed. I think Fey are definately underutilized.

    Hm... I wonder if I could run a homebrew creature contest...
    Back in the day, there was a monster contest that got a decent amount of traffic. I think more recently someone tried to start it up again but it didn't go so well. So, maybe?

    Worst that happens is no one posts and then you know.
    Last edited by Temotei; 2017-08-09 at 09:54 PM.
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    Post Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Temotei View Post
    Back in the day, there was a monster contest that got a decent amount of traffic. I think more recently someone tried to start it up again but it didn't go so well. So, maybe?

    Worst that happens is no one posts and then you know.
    Interested. Would it be alright if I copied some of the formatting you use for the base class contest?

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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    I've completed my entry besides finishing the saves and the druid casting progression. It is definitely more powerful than my last class.

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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Congrats to Knit and bek, you guys really earned it. For myself, I'm pleased and surprised - I honestly expected Wizard of the Coast to come in higher than the Transcendent. So thanks for rating my class higher than I did, I suppose

    Anyway, I promised I'd give my thoughts on the classes when I had the time, so here we go:

    Knighted Knight: I was all about the flavour on this one, and the playstyle it supported looked fun, too. What lost it for me, bek already pretty much covered - it needed a bit of polishing, both in format and content. Missing skills, Magical Knit was just crazy as written, you get the idea. Overall, it's a fun-looking class that fit the theme well, but it had technical issues I couldn't overlook.

    Wizard of the Coast: You know I'm always a fan of your work, Jorm, and this is no exception. The WotC is so tongue-in-cheek, from the flavour to the mechanics, and I loved it. The idea of giving out class features was inspired. My issues with it were largely that it's a bit of a slog to read through, and a little difficult to understand without multiple readings. I also couldn't really see myself playing it, so it lost a bit of its appeal to me personally. That said, it was my number three vote, all that humour and the uniqueness of the concept selling it for me.

    Antiquarian: This was my number one vote. It was very nearly my number two vote, but it sold me on a decidedly tie-breaking factor: it looked like something I'd have a lot of fun with. Clearly, a lot of time and effort was devoted to this class, and it shows. It was given in an easy-to-read, polished format, and nothing about it seemed particularly over- or underpowered. It took a unique angle to the theme that I appreciated, and it screams options without overdoing it, which is always a good thing for a class. The only thing I had against the class, the one thing, was spending a week on new artifacts. Which is mostly down to the complete lack of downtime in campaigns I play. The Antiquarian definitely won this for me, no doubt.

    Artist Macabre: I'm a sucker for dancing classes. Couldn't tell you why, that's just who I am. As such, I loved the theme and flavour of this class. However, I was immediately struck by the key feature. The class basically hinges on Dance of Blood, which is written in a somewhat confusing manner, and is rather situational. I felt like I could have fun with this, but I also felt like I'd have to put work in and go out of my way to force interactions with this ability. Much as I was sold on the fluff of the class, the crunch was a stumbling block.

    Photorealist: So finally we reach, if you couldn't guess, my number two vote. Pretty much everything I said about the Antiquarian is true of the Photorealist - the invested effort, the options, the theme (which was really just a better use of painting than I had), it was all golden. In the end, the thing that separated the two classes was my bias towards the Antiquarian's main mechanic, and the spot of trouble I had figuring out the Photorealist's primary class feature; having to go over it a couple of times to get it set in my mind made me feel like it would give me trouble down the line if I played it myself, and I hate to have to constantly refer to a class feature to make sure I don't have it wrong. But the Photorealist is really fantastic, the work put into it is self-evident, and obviously I felt it earned second place.

    Overall, I can honestly say I loved all of your work. You certainly gave me a run for my money. Again, thanks for rating the Transcendent as favourably as you did, it did far better than I could have hoped - and many congratulations to bek and Knit for outdoing me, and you two completely earned it.
    Last edited by Eno Remnant; 2017-08-09 at 11:23 PM.
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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Knitifine View Post
    Interested. Would it be alright if I copied some of the formatting you use for the base class contest?
    Sure, no problem.
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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Hi, I'm back

    I threw my hat in the ring with the Feyblessed. Still a WIP.
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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Knitifine View Post
    Interested. Would it be alright if I copied some of the formatting you use for the base class contest?
    There's actually a Monster template in my contest (linked below), feel free to use it!

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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Coloring unfinished sections red is pretty clever, idareyou. I might have to steal that next time I'm making something big. A lot easier than my previous method of TEXT.
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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Feyblessed is playable. Feats and more paths may come.

    I really question if it's balanced, since it has 9th level spells and full BAB. But, the Druid is hailed as one of the toughest gishes in the game, and this one has stunted spellcasting compared to them, which it has to sacrifice to gain wildshape instead of having it as a separate ability, and also an extremely restrictive oath compared to druids: no proficiency in armor or weapons and loss of all class abilities if broken. On the other hand, it has two more skills and all good saves. Anyone care to PEACH?
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    Lightbulb Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by sengmeng View Post
    Feyblessed is playable. Feats and more paths may come.

    I really question if it's balanced, since it has 9th level spells and full BAB. But, the Druid is hailed as one of the toughest gishes in the game, and this one has stunted spellcasting compared to them, which it has to sacrifice to gain wildshape instead of having it as a separate ability, and also an extremely restrictive oath compared to druids: no proficiency in armor or weapons and loss of all class abilities if broken. On the other hand, it has two more skills and all good saves. Anyone care to PEACH?
    The Feyblessed looks really cool, but I had a couple of ideas.

    First of all, the oath seems... flavor inappropriate? I guess to me, the idea of that fey don't make leather armor or weapons seems alien.
    Second, I feel like being a prepared spellcaster is the wrong choice for this type of character, at least, power wise. They feel like they can honestly do a -lot- because of that. If your goal is to make a tier 1 one class that can go toe to toe with the druid though, then I don't think this is a problem.

    Finally, from a design standpoint I dislike the dead level at 19th, and the continued use of 1d3 for unarmed damage (it's an awkward dice size I feel should be moved away from when possible).

    Overall, it does look pretty good, I just think it could use some more refinement and punch.
    Last edited by Knitifine; 2017-08-16 at 05:12 AM.
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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Knitifine View Post
    The Feyblessed looks really cool, but I had a couple of ideas.

    First of all, the oath seems... flavor inappropriate? I guess to me, the idea of that fey don't make leather armor or weapons seems alien.
    Second, I feel like being a prepared spellcaster is the wrong choice for this type of character, at least, power wise. They feel like they can honestly do a -lot- because of that. If your goal is to make a tier 1 one class that can go toe to toe with the druid though, then I don't think this is a problem.

    Finally, from a design standpoint I dislike the dead level at 19th, and the continued use of 1d3 for unarmed damage (it's an awkward dice size I feel should be moved away from when possible).

    Overall, it does look pretty good, I just think it could use some more refinement and punch.
    Thanks! I guess the balance sits fine with you at least. I think your problem with the oath could be fixed with more fluff support (since 4 of the 5 paths are named for animals, I was thinking that the oath was less about being like a fey and more about getting in touch with the beast within, which I failed to state). I'm not sure how to balance spontaneous casting with the druid spell list and I've always heard that favored souls suck because they apply the sorcerer's idea to a spell list that it doesn't work for. Themewise, it is the naturey version of a favored soul, but I don't want to make the same mistakes.

    I agree about the unarmed damage and it wouldnt be gamebreaking to boost it to 1d4 at level 1 (or rather, increase the dice size by one in the case of characters other than the standard medium sized humanoids). Later the paths all give you ways to pile on more damage, so I'd probably have it stay the same all the way through.

    I've been criticized before for filling every level, so this time for once I erred on the side of caution. Really though, there's no such thing as a dead level on a full caster, but I suppose I could move the final DR increase to 19th level. I'm open to other suggestions too, on that and for other paths. Is there any other sufficiently distinct combat style that a ferocious animal could represent? I dont want to make one based on cute fluffy bunnies or anything like that because I'd probably end up making five more instead of 1 or 2. I was thinking maybe a leader type represented by a lion, but the wolf covers group tactics pretty well. Maybe a crocodile or shark for aquatic campaigns? A dragon? Thanks again for the prompt response and positivity :)
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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Disclaimer: This posts contains a lot of OPINIONS about GAME BALANCE in 3.5E which are SUBJECTIVE.

    Quote Originally Posted by sengmeng View Post
    I'm not sure how to balance spontaneous casting with the druid spell list and I've always heard that favored souls suck because they apply the sorcerer's idea to a spell list that it doesn't work for. Themewise, it is the naturey version of a favored soul, but I don't want to make the same mistakes.
    The favored soul sucks because it has to split its stats when it's class features already suggest a gish build and it must spend some spell known on healing in order to avoid party misunderstands or disappointment. In order to get around this, I would say you could give the 'Cure' line of spells as free spells known (though I'm also fond of Goodberry).

    Quote Originally Posted by sengmeng View Post
    I agree about the unarmed damage and it wouldn't be gamebreaking to boost it to 1d4 at level 1 (or rather, increase the dice size by one in the case of characters other than the standard medium sized humanoids). Later the paths all give you ways to pile on more damage, so I'd probably have it stay the same all the way through.
    I would advance all the way to the devious level of 1d6 for medium sized characters. This way no standard race has to fiddle around with awkward 1d3s. This boosts your average damage by like... 2? So I don't think it's a huge deal. Damage has always been a rather finicky thing to balance in 3.5e anyways.

    Quote Originally Posted by sengmeng View Post
    I've been criticized before for filling every level, so this time for once I erred on the side of caution. Really though, there's no such thing as a dead level on a full caster, but I suppose I could move the final DR increase to 19th level. I'm open to other suggestions too, on that and for other paths.
    Maybe a deception themed ability like A Thousand Faces?

    Quote Originally Posted by sengmeng View Post
    Is there any other sufficiently distinct combat style that a ferocious animal could represent? I dont want to make one based on cute fluffy bunnies or anything like that because I'd probably end up making five more instead of 1 or 2. I was thinking maybe a leader type represented by a lion, but the wolf covers group tactics pretty well. Maybe a crocodile or shark for aquatic campaigns? A dragon?
    Perhaps shark based style based upon bleeding damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by sengmeng View Post
    Thanks again for the prompt response and positivity :)
    Always welcome. I hope this shapes up to be a great class, lots of good stuff going for it.
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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Well after an hour of work, I managed to get enough of a signal to release the class's first part for read.


    The keepers life and chassis are complete, and is sufficiently ready for you to infer the kind of loadour it's primary powersst so employ. The Essence system can be best described as a bastafdization of Binding and Oncarnoum Chakras though less restrictive and it's more about applying it to allies than yourself.

    My main problem so far is a lack of ideas to give the keeper something to do while in combat.... I shoe horned in a pseudo ensnare and a miniblast to try work something out.

    I'll see if I can be more active and comment on other people's work this time around. It's just a bit hard to do so because of band width problems.
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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    I think the Feyblessed is done... changed it to a spontaneous caster, added two new paths, Ape (charging and movement) and Shark (bleeding and aquatic affinity), and added a 19th level boost to whichever path you've invested the most in.
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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Well commitments got in the way. Wont be able to finish the class in time for the deadline especially since i scrapped the whole thing and restarted.

    I was too ambitious.
    I possess the Addicted to Editing flaw. I have edit my posts 3 seconds after posting them for 10 minutes.

    Current Projects:

    Backing Dragon: the Inheritance - World of Darkness Fan game where you play a dragon
    Mutant - Be a horrible abomination of a player character. Comes in a variety of flavors.
    Proprietor - Bring a House to a Sword fight! Be the adventuring interior/exterior decorator. Use siege weapons, customize your hour.

    Extended Signature

  28. - Top - End - #118
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Temotei's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Minnesota
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Almarck View Post
    Well commitments got in the way. Wont be able to finish the class in time for the deadline especially since i scrapped the whole thing and restarted.

    I was too ambitious.
    If you need a little extra time, just ask. Life gets in the way sometimes, and I'm sure others would appreciate more time, too.
    Base Class Contest XXXXII - Entropy and Renewal
    Due December 15th

    Chat Thread

    Homebrew
    Please feel free to PM me any thoughts on my homebrew (or comment in the thread if it's not too old).

  29. - Top - End - #119
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Kobold

    Join Date
    Oct 2014

    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Temotei View Post
    If you need a little extra time, just ask. Life gets in the way sometimes, and I'm sure others would appreciate more time, too.

    Lost way too mich time redesigning and have too many priorities. So im axing the one that has the least need. Sorry.

    Just go on without me for now.
    I possess the Addicted to Editing flaw. I have edit my posts 3 seconds after posting them for 10 minutes.

    Current Projects:

    Backing Dragon: the Inheritance - World of Darkness Fan game where you play a dragon
    Mutant - Be a horrible abomination of a player character. Comes in a variety of flavors.
    Proprietor - Bring a House to a Sword fight! Be the adventuring interior/exterior decorator. Use siege weapons, customize your hour.

    Extended Signature

  30. - Top - End - #120
    Orc in the Playground
     
    RedKnightGirl

    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Gender
    Female

    frown Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Due to crises both academic and financial I am forced to end development of the Egregore and submit it as is.
    I apologize for any disappointment that brings.
    Professional Sorcerer Advocate.

    Winner of the Base Class Contest XXXX 'Happy Little Accidents'
    Winning Entry: The Antiquarian (Artifacts, Options).
    Runner Up for Base Class Context XXXXI 'It's In Our Nature'
    Entry: The Egregore (Vermin Companion)

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