Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

[Jormengand]

All according to plan.

Anyway, I'm technically not sure whether or not I'll get Brahmin done in a week (man, it's been a long time since I worried about the Brahmin) but I probably won't. I would need to make, what, four or five incarnations a day before I was happy with how many I had? So, meh. Unlikely, possible. Unlikely.

[rferries]

Whew! Finished my conversion of the Nameless One (from the Planescape: Torment computer game), mainly because I decided to excise all the Faction feats I had planned :D. Looks like we all have hefty entries for this contest!

[Morphic tide]

Largely-placeholder version of the class post has been made. Will finish it up... Probably post-contest, sadly, but it'll probably have the bare minimum to function before then. Have to do a good deal of number crunching and comparisons and analysis of really old homebrew (okay, not that old, only 2012, but still) before I can work out the subsystem and, from there, features. Because the two are fairly strongly tied together.

[Jormengand]

Okay, so I've got brahmin to an actually playable state - a minimum viable product, I guess. I want more incarnations, but they're not strictly necessary I guess. Got a while to add some finishing touches. Any requests or suggestions for incarnations (I guess people request things from me? That's a thing now?) that people make in the next few hours will probably be worked in, even if they're just "It needs something to do in [situation]".

[Morphic tide]

Speaking of minimum viable products, the Skaberen needs one more association. Can't quite decide on what to do for the Incarnum Association for the pair, as I'm torn between a Necrocarnum Zombie based one, using the Totemist meld list as a semi-placeholder preliminary to get it "out the door", with the Necrocarnate's stuff for soul assimilation added, and a Roguish sort using the Soulborn list (and the somewhat obligated lower progression) with precision damage and an etherealness ability (not the spell, the act of becoming Ethereal) that progresses to full on flight. And 7d6 precision damage, whatever it may have as a clause.

...Skaberen is probably going to be way too prone to ending up functionally t2 (the game breakers for the genuine qualification are beyond the progression available) on accident due to list expansion over time. Because the arguments for Wizard being t1 come very close to applying (it's routine ability swapping rather than everything on call, but on an hourly-with-corpses instead of daily-with-spellbook basis. And Wizard needs Magic Mart to seriously one-up Sorcerer, particularly given the difference in practical versatility between prepared and spontaneous), and 5th level spells are often enough to wreck campaigns. Especially with multiple lists and even power sources potentially available. For now, it seems solidly t3 to me, as the baseline features work for both nearly all healing needs (provided the Heal skill is high enough to deal with tissue rejection, even reviving the dead is entirely doable. With a note as to fixing the failed check problems) and melee combat, with some skills appropriate for intrigue, then the existing Association... Basically gives it Wizard casting of a third its level and a Skeleton Warrior of half its level, with Conjuration as an auto-banned school.

[sengmeng]

Well, I wasn't feeling too inspired until the very last minute, buy it hit all at once and I type up the Phoenixborn today... on my phone. Never doing that again. Forgive me for not putting in columns for powers known and highest level power; that would have been just a bit too tedious. If you must see them, it's identical to the Wilder class.

Obvious inspirations are the dragonborn from Skyrim, and the phoenix force from X-men.

[Morphic tide]

...Well that just embaresses me, now doesn't it? Then again, I filled out some 1,300 cells of tables without being able to just reuse them, and had to work out stuff for a subsystem at the same time without being able to purely ad-hoc it because the topic is way too breakable. Also, bundles of other forums. Like, way too much focus splitting.

[Morphic tide]

Pretty sure the contest is done, now.

[rferries]

Pretty sure the contest is done, now.

Ayup. *sits back in rocking chair on veranda, puffs pipe*

[Temotei]

Sorry for the delay, peeps. Was away from my home and computer for a few extra days. Here we go!

[sengmeng]

Third to Phoenix. I wanted to rank it higher but it feels like it needs more meat on it's bones as a class. Still like the base idea though and would love to see some expanded stuff on it after the contest.

Definitely agree. The idea was still forming the day of the deadline; just an hour to breathe and then go over it again would have probably led to double the feats and some better streamlining/scaling of the class features. Usually I try to post a skeletal but playable class early and then just add support like feats and class-specific spells/powers/whatever after letting it stew for a bit. Tried to go through that whole process in six hours this time. Still pretty happy with the result, but it needs and deserves more love after the contest.

[Lanth Sor]

Next game options
1. Liars
2. Lovers
3. Haters
4. Memes
5. Everyday Heroes

[sengmeng]

4. Memes

My vote. Still have an idea rattling around for an Amazing Horseman. Or maybe a diviner who calls on various advice animals. Or maybe a light mage who specializes in attacking the darkness. Or hey, why not Zoidberg?

But for another option: meta. Just the idea of being really meta.

[ShiningStarling]

I'm gonna vote memes, cause I can actually think of something for that...

[Jormengand]

I already did the ultimate meme class, though!

[khadgar567]

I already did the ultimate meme class, though!

ow shut up you overgrown snake. my vote is also on memes and i think i got the idea for it

[rferries]

I think I'm already outnumbered but I'll go for Everyday Heroes! I'll make a tier 1 noncaster if it kills me :D

[Lanth Sor]

I think I'm already outnumbered but I'll go for Everyday Heroes! I'll make a tier 1 noncaster if it kills me :D

My vote is for "Everyday Heroes" too. I love classes like the fire fighter, the baker, the farmer, the candle stick maker. :D

[ShiningStarling]

... i withdraw my vote for memes, too many good possibilities in Everyday Heroes

[Jormengand]

Everyday heroes does sound more interesting than memes, I'd say.

[Morphic tide]

...Okay, Sengmeng, can you explain the spelling and grammar issues that led you to place Skabaren below Nameless One? Because it seriously bugs me, as I had no spelling errors according to the GiantITP inbuilt spellcheck and the grammar should be at least entirely technically correct, though perhaps it's stilted. Do you just dislike the word choices?

I also find it funny that nobody has come forth to sling **** at me for having grave robbing corpse-stitchers tend towards morally neutral, with the justification that the demographics of those able to become one are heavily slanted to those who will pull an Edgelord Tortured Monster while graverobbing and butchering corpses on the street. Then again, Chaotic people can get away with that, because Chaos is a matter of rejecting authority, rather than malice. Quite helpfully, the Association setup means you can build around a single level of another class as a source of Associations, such as snagging Paladin 2 with Serenity

As for the next contest, I'll go with Memes, because I didn't do anything for the idiom-based one and there's a supply of some high-end silliness.

[sengmeng]

Certainly.

Skaberen

Put a quote by or about a member of your class here!

Stitched corpses around sorrowful souls, vengeful wraiths wrapped in the flesh of those who wronged them, surgeon-priests who became ageless horrors for their cause, Skaberen are half-dead creatures that stitch parts of corpses onto themselves after stitching their souls back into their own bodies, calling on echos of minds, lingering fragments of souls, esoteric corporeal properties and sometimes merely properties attributed to the creatures rather than anything actually present to gain abilities based on the dead they find.

Adventures: Skaberen adventure largely to have less opposition to their work or presence, as adventurers are more often tolerant of unpleasant means of deriving benefit from slain foes and disfigurements from past events. The other major reason for Skaberen adventurers is that they seek exotic creatures and powerful persons to advance themselves, whether ancient priest-kings or still extant necromancers, the grave sites of long-dead dragons or taking advantage of a hunt to claim the corpse of a Manticore.

Characteristics: Corpse-stitchers by nature, Skaberen find themselves difficult to put down when they have a supply of flesh to replace damage body parts and can change their capabilities rapidly, so long as they have the right bodies around. Particularly old Skaberen

Alignment: Rarely Lawful, owing to a frequent dislike of nature and the assumption of mortality, their moral status is usually Neutral, as many of those most predisposed to becoming Skaberen commit the acts needed out of desperation and many do not abandon morality entirely, at least not before slain by authorities for breaking laws relating to treatment of the dead or attempting to slay beasts to maintain themselves.

Religion: Gods of magic, life, death, knowledge, chaos and more all find themselves with a smattering of Skaberen followers, people who took up faith to deal with their own now-horrid nature or never abandoned the faith they had in their previous lives, or following Gods they believe accept what they have done and have become.

Background: Skaberen come about most frequently from traumatic deaths that would typically create ghosts, but something allowed the spirit to repair and inhabit the body, returning to a semblance of life. Whether knowledge of Divine healing used to remove the fatal wounds without enough power to properly re-inhabit their natural form or Incarnate skills used to force the soul to continue within the body, they always come about with some skill that allows for cheating death in one way or another.

Races: Cowardly and hunted races, such as Kobolds and Goblins, more frequently encounter the conditions necessary, while long-lived and magically inclined races such as Elves and Dwarves more frequently have the skills needed to perform the self-revival. Races such as Azurin have innate talents that naturally lead to the skills needed to make the transition.

Other Classes: Clerics who worship non-Evil Gods of Death and most Druids view Skaberen with disdain, as most Skaberen find themselves robbing graves and butchering those they've fought, and Paladins are prone to assuming them true Undead or genuinely Evil and attempt to slay them for crimes, perceived or otherwise. Wizards with knowledge of Necromancy often find themselves curious about the bindings between flesh and soul, seeking either their own immortality through less prejudiced or difficult means than Lichdome or improving their own necrotic creations.

Role: Skaberen typically take up the role of a frontline damage dealer and healer, owing to abilities found in all of them, though their abilities allow them to fill any role, should they find corpses of creatures or persons with abilities conductive to the role.

Adaptation: In settings lacking afterlives, or at least spirits formed from trauma or regret, Skaberen would typically find a horrid reputation justified, as the dominant remaining method of their existence is mad necromancers and healers warping themselves to extend their lives or become more powerful. Settings lacking proper resurrection find little inherent issue with Skaberen, as they are defined by an only partially successful attempt at self-revival, born of improperly attaching the soul to the body.

GAME RULE INFORMATION
Skaberen have the following game statistics.
Abilities: The primary ability score of a Skaberen is Wisdom, as it is vital to utilizing their abilities properly, though Constitution is used for several abilities and Intelligence is a frequently useful, though optional, ability score.

Alignment: Skaberen, owing to the acts they must commit to diversify and improve, are rarely Lawful, owing to disrespect, even disdain, for nature and the dead, and frequently viewed as Evil, though they are slightly more often Neutral than genuinely Evil themselves.
Hit Die: d10
Starting Age: As Bard
Starting Gold: As Barbarian

Class Skills
The Skaberen's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Craft (Int), Disguise (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (History, Nature, Religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Spot (Wis)

Skill Points at First Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

Spoiler: Table: The Skaberen

Show

CLASS NAME

Level	Base Attack Bonus	Fort Save	Ref Save	Will Save	Special	Maximum Association Level	Total Association Level
1st	+0	+2	+0	+2	Echo of the Grave, Stitched Together	1	1
2nd	+1	+3	+0	+3	Reckless Force +2	1	1
3rd	+2	+3	+1	+3	Stitcher-Surgeon (Healing)	2	2
4th	+3	+4	+1	+4	Reckless Force +3	2	3
5th	+3	+5	+2	+5	Half-Dead Horror (AC)	3	3
6th	+4	+5	+2	+5	Reckless Force +4, Stitcher-Surgeon (Ability Damage)	3	4
7th	+5	+5	+2	+5	Attentive Strikes	4	5
8th	+6/+1	+6	+2	+6	Reckless Force +5	4	6
9th	+6/+1	+6	+3	+6	Aiding the Return	5	6
10th	+7/+2	+7	+3	+7	Reckless Force +6	5	7
11th	+8/+3	+7	+3	+7	Half-Dead Horror (25% Fortification, Resistances)	6	8
12th	+9/+4	+8	+4	+8	Reckless Force +7	6	9
13th	+9/+4	+8	+4	+8	Stitcher-Surgeon (Efficient Use)	7	9
14th	+10/+5	+9	+4	+9	Reckless Force +8	7	10
15th	+11/+6/+1	+9	+5	+9		8	11
16th	+12/+7/+2	+10	+5	+10	Reckless Force +9	8	12
17th	+12/+7/+2	+10	+5	+10	Half-Dead Horror (50% Fortification, Immunities)	9	12
18th	+13/+8/+3	+11	+6	+11	Reckless Force +10	9	13
19th	+14/+9/+4	+11	+6	+11	Aiding the Return, Greater	10	14
20th	+15/+10/+5	+12	+6	+12	Reckless Force +11, Endless Perseverance	10	15

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Skaberen.

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: Skaberen are proficient with all Simple weapons and Light and Medium armor, but not shields.

Echo of the Grave (Ex): The one experience all Skaberen have in common is death. Every one of them has experienced it firsthand, if only briefly, and rejected it with only partial success. Upon gaining their first level of Skaberen, a creature may become an Undead or Construct with the Augmented subtype if they choose, becoming ageless, but also becoming unable to benefit from normal healing magic or natural healing, including restoration of ability damage or drain. Undead Skaberen can be healed by Negative Energy, while Construct Skaberen can be repaired as any other Construct, using the Heal skill instead of Craft for methods that use it, such as repairing Warforged. If they would die of old age or starvation, they instead automatically become an Undead or Construct, losing their previous type entirely. In either case, they do not gain immunity to poison, death effects or mind-affecting effects. Their first Association level must have the Healing, Necromancy or Incarnum tag.

However, because Skaberen are universally dead persons who returned under their own power, one cannot gain their first level of Skaberen like an ordinary class. Instead, they must have an ability that allows them to return themselves or others to life that would not normally work to revive themselves in the circumstances of their death, but must be available to them, as well as have enough XP to gain a level. If they choose to, such a creature may choose to gain a level in Skaberen and lose a level in one other class, spending XP as if gaining a level normally, returning to life in the process. Alternatively, a non-Undead, non-Construct creature capable of creating Undead with at least as many hit dice as them can cast a spell capable of creating intelligent Undead with as many hit dice as themselves and trade a class level or racial hit die for a level of Skaberen, with their Alignment moving one step towards Chaotic.

Stitched Together (Su): While Skaberen are merely heavily scarred members of their former race when they first arise, they often rapidly find themselves using the flesh of other creatures to remove the scars and truly close the wounds of their death, finding that this both invigorates them and offers them skills they lacked previously. Many find newer wounds only healing when the flesh is replaced, or when old bones in another part of their body are changed out for "new" bones.

At 1st level, they may stitch flesh and bone from living creatures, or at least the corpses of such, into themselves in a process taking one hour, making a Heal check. This restores health equal to the result of the check multiplied by the creature's or the Skaberen's Constitution modifier, whichever is higher, with an upper limit of thrice their Skaberen level or twice the HD of the creature, whichever is higher. They may also gain Association levels connected to the creature, or retrain their existing Association levels to ones connected to the creature, up to a limit of their Constitution modifier or the creature's hit dice. This may only grant them Association levels with the Monster, Incarnum or Necromancy tags. This ability may only be used on corpses, and only once per corpse.

Reckless Force (Ex): A Skaberen's sense of touch is often twisted and their ability to use their bodies is warped to decidedly unnatural limits. This offers them the ability to push themselves much harder than normal creatures, at the cost of inflicting damage upon themselves for doing so. This does not benefit dexterity or mental acuity, but the brute force they can bring to bare has its own value.

At 2nd level, a Skaberen may add a Racial Bonus of one plus one half their class level to any roll that applies their Strength or Constitution modifier once per turn , but take Bludgeoning damage equal to half the bonus applied. Any effect that would reduce or negate this damage instead makes it nonlethal damage.

Stitcher-Surgeon (Su): Experienced Skaberen learn to adapt their skills to aid others, however unsightly the results. Because of this, they often take up jobs as healers later on in "life", whether as a cover for their other activities or out of true benevolence. Some merely do it to have something to do with excess stocks of flesh and bone, creating rudimentary grafts to replace lost limbs and masses of lost flesh.

At 3rd level, they may stitch corpse-flesh onto other living creatures in a process taking ten minutes, making a heal check. The target regains HP equal to the check times their Constitution modifier, up to a limit of twice the hit dice of the creature the flesh came from or three times the Skaberen's class level, whichever is lower, sharing use limits with Stitched Together. At 6th level, they may restore ability damage instead of health at a rate of one point per five HP the check made could restore. At 13th level, they may use a single corpse and skill check to heal any number of creatures, taking ten minutes per target. The total HP healed is increased to the HP the creature possessed in life.

If the flesh is from a creature not of the same race as the target(s), then using this ability to heal others is a DC 20 Heal check, adding the target(s)'s Fortitude save bonus to the check and the creature's CR as an increase to the DC. On a failed check, only half as much health is healed and the target(s) take 1 point of Constitution damage per 10 HP or 2 ability damage healed.

Half-Dead Horror (Ex): As Skaberen grow older and fight longer, they become ever more grisly visages of scars and fused flesh, at times having tumerous-seeming growths where wounds overlap with the scars of flesh from others. Owing to their all-but-dead nature, the lasting damage does nothing to truly harm them, instead making them resistant to further damage as the state of their flesh dwindles in importance, and their increasing distance from life renders them more resistant to harm living creatures of flesh are commonly vulnerable to.

At 5th level, a Skabaran gains Natural Armor equal to one plus their Constitution modifier (1+Con), as it becomes rarer for blows to strike anything harmful. Should they lack a Constitution modifier, they instead use their Wisdom modifier. At 11th level, they gain 25% Fortification, as the Light Fortification armor property, and gain a bonus equal to half their level to saves against Poison and Death Effects, due to fewer elements of their biology having any important role to their half-living state. At 17th level, their Fortification increases to 50% and they become immune to Poison and Death Effects, as what important parts they have left become more abnormal and harder to reach and their flesh becomes nothing but a means for them to act on the world.

Attentive Strikes (Ex): With a worsening sense of touch as nerves rot and the soul fits less and less, Skaberen often find themselves relying on their wits to know their limits. This offers some benefits as they grow used to knowing their limits intellectually instead of instinctively, allowing them to apply appropriate force much more often.

At 7th level, whenever a Skaberen uses their Reckless Force class feature and the roll is a success, they may make a DC 13+1/2 bonus Reflex save to notice how much force they need before they finish the action. If they succeed the save, the bonus offered by Reckless Force is reduced by their Intelligence modifier, to a minimum of the bonus needed to succeed the roll.

Aiding the Return (Su): As their abhorrent endurance matches and surpasses the Cadaver Golems they come to so strongly resemble, Skaberen learn to restore others to the same half-life many of them fall into, with little more than rumors and hearsay of veterans of a hundred battles and gnarled ancients who've lost sensation restoring others with only scars to show for it.

At 9th level, a Skaberen's understanding of healing with corpse-flesh advances to such a great degree that they can return the souls of others to their bodies, at the cost of losing their true life. With a DC 20+target's HD Heal check in a process lasting two hours and requiring them to restore all of the creature's health as if with their Stitcher-Surgeon feature, they can revive a person as if with Raise Dead with CL equal to their Skaberen level. If the check succeeds, then the target loses two levels and gains a level of Skaberen, with an Association level of their choice connected to a class they possess or their race. If the check fails, then they return as a Construct or Undead instead of their original type, losing half their levels or hit dice and replacing them with racial hit dice of their new type and a single Skaberen level. Additionally, the Skaberen can retrain Skaberen with less levels than them in the lesser Skaberen's other classes, and into Skaberen levels at one per day instead of one per week and with one third the normal GP cost.

At 19th level, succeeding the check instead restores the target as if with Resurrection, with a CL equal to the user's Skaberen level, and a failed check acts as if it were a successful check for the 9th level version of the feature, as their knowledge of healing with corpse-flesh is functionally absolute.

Spoiler: Important Note

Show

The revived person obviously has the Skaberen present to provide retraining in Skaberen levels at the discounted and accelerated rate. Party members will usually be within one or two levels of the Skaberen, bar egregious LA stacking or overly frequent revival, so failing the check means long downtime and a pile of gold to recover lost levels and being stuck as a Construct (not really a problem when you have no RHD!) or a relatively fast rebuild as a Skaberen with a large discount. That's also a Construct. With all the immunities that comes with.

Endless Perseverance (Su): Legends tell of cadaverous giants, immune to all but the darkest and most powerful of soul-slaying and mind-binding spells, utterly unable to be slain in combat as their dead flesh channels a soul older than any nation alive today for its power. What not even the faintest rumor speaks of is that such tales are of the oldest Skaberen, who wear faces as masks and own crypts to store the bones of horrors from bygone eras, in the days when they acted as lords of the battlefield.

At 20th level, a Skaberen becomes immune to Mind Affecting Effects cast from any plane other than the Ethereal, as their soul's relation to anything on the material plane becomes untraceable to even the strongest of spells. Additionally, whenever they die, they persist as a Ghost and may make a DC 50 Heal check to attach any soul, including their own, to any corpse, acting as True Resurrection with a caster level equal to their level in Skaberen, while they are a Ghost. On a failed check, the corpse animates as a Skeleton of the corpse's kind.

[Alabenson]

I'll put my vote to Everyday Heroes as well.

[sengmeng]

Wow, memes got outvoted hard. May I suggest, somewhat selfishly, that the title be "Hey, I know that guy"? That would capture the idea of everyday heroes, but my idea for a meme class could be adapted as well.

[rferries]

Wow, memes got outvoted hard. May I suggest, somewhat selfishly, that the title be "Hey, I know that guy"? That would capture the idea of everyday heroes, but my idea for a meme class could be adapted as well.

Sounds good to me, and it's broad enough that it doesn't really restrict the brewing options.

[sengmeng]

Sounds good to me, and it's broad enough that it doesn't really restrict the brewing options.

Is the champ's word law? I'm going to start working on my entry either way.

[rferries]

Is the champ's word law? I'm going to start working on my entry either way.

Oh uh no haha! I can't be trusted with that kind of power :D

[sengmeng]

I've tried to reach Temotei and got no response. I hope he's okay. If no one objects, I'll put up the next contest thread by Monday.

[Jormengand]

Thread! Yay, thread!

Also, has scienceJormengand gone too far?

[rferries]

I've tried to reach Temotei and got no response. I hope he's okay. If no one objects, I'll put up the next contest thread by Monday.

Thanks!

Thread! Yay, thread!

Also, has scienceJormengand gone too far?

One can never go too far - that's why the Far Realm has infinite levels. :D The Wanderer looks like it'll be exciting!

Humble Hero is up (not a great name, I admit).