Eldritch Claws Help!

[Salt&Burn]

I have a Draconian (homebrew) Warlock level 10 with a natural claw attack - but also took the Eldritch Claws feat for the added purpose of being able to use his Eldritch Blast as well a a melee attack...

Now there's a disagreement. The feat says: "Benefit: As a free action, you can form the energy of your eldritch blast into a set of claws extending almost an entire foot from your hands. While your eldritch claws exist you may make up to two claw attacks as natural weapons. You are automatically proficient with your eldritch claws. On a successful attack with an eldritch claw, you deal your normal amount of unarmed strike damage plus your eldritch blast damage. Once you form your eldritch claws they remain until just before the beginning of your next turn. You cannot use your normal eldritch blast ability while your eldritch claws exist. A monk may not use eldritch claws as part of her flurry of blows."

So I get he can attack with both Eldritch Claws - but if he hits with both, can he deal Eldritch Blast damage twice? That'd end up being something like 12d6 at this point if he did.

[The_Jette]

Yes, if you hit twice you do damage twice. What's the disagreement?

[Kaleph]

I think that's the sense of the feat. I wonder if the base damage of the eldritch claw is 1d3 (as medium humanoid), or your normal claw damage.

I'd rule it's 1d3, since you have two forms of claw attack, and in these cases you get the one with the highest damage and ignore the other.

[The_Jette]

I think that's the sense of the feat. I wonder if the base damage of the eldritch claw is 1d3 (as medium humanoid), or your normal claw damage.

I'd rule it's 1d3, since you have two forms of claw attack, and in these cases you get the one with the highest damage and ignore the other.

I would agree with you, because Eldritch Claws says "unarmed damage" instead of "unarmed or natural weapon damage." It was probably written with the idea that the character using the idea would have fists instead of claws, and didn't take that into consideration. So, I would understand if a DM wanted to say he'd get the claw damage, instead.

[Salt&Burn]

Yes, if you hit twice you do damage twice. What's the disagreement?

The disagreement was that Warlocks only get to deal Eldritch Blast once a round - but this feat would allow not only attack damage, but also two Eldritch Blasts on top of that. Some people in our group think it's too overpowered that way. But it doesn't specify one way or the other.

[Gruftzwerg]

regular claw rule: creatures with 2 claws, get 2 attacks at their highest BAB, since the two claw attacks count both as primary attack.

If you want to get more than 2 attacks, due to high BAB (11+), you need to add Beast Strike (feat).
Beast Strike adds you "claw dmg" on your "unarmed strike dmg":
Beast Strike = unarmed + (eldritch) claw
= unarmed + (unarmed + Eldritch Blast)
= 2x unarmed + Eldritch Blast

You trade your 2 max BAB claw attacks into claw boosted, double unarmed dmg which further profits from high BAB for a regular full attack..


edit: for further cheese and build/optimization suggestion, look at my monk/warlock clawlock build.

edit2: the hand/claw interpretation of Eldritch Claws feat (how imho it should be read).
You hands ( = everything that counts as Hands, Claws that are able to hold/wield weapons, which most humanoids with claws can) turn into (or get covered by) Eldritch Claws.
Should work without any problems.

[Salt&Burn]

regular claw rule: creatures with 2 claws, get 2 attacks at their highest BAB, since the two claw attacks count both as primary attack.

If you want to get more than 2 attacks, due to high BAB (11+), you need to add Beast Strike (feat).
Beast Strike adds you "claw dmg" on your "unarmed strike dmg":
Beast Strike = unarmed + (eldritch) claw
= unarmed + (unarmed + Eldritch Blast)
= 2x unarmed + Eldritch Blast

You trade your 2 max BAB claw attacks into claw boosted, double unarmed dmg which further profits from high BAB for a regular full attack..

I get that he'd get two claw attacks - but do they each get an Eldritch Blast if they both hit? Or is it just one Eldritch blast even if both hit?

[Dagroth]

The disagreement was that Warlocks only get to deal Eldritch Blast once a round - but this feat would allow not only attack damage, but also two Eldritch Blasts on top of that. Some people in our group think it's too overpowered that way. But it doesn't specify one way or the other.

This is no different than using the Eldritch Glaive Invocation to get iterative attacks with a +6 or higher BAB.

You do your Eldritch Blast damage as a claw attack twice, if you hit with both claws.

By rule, you do your unarmed strike damage as well (which is typically 1d3 unless you have Monk levels or a Monk's Belt) but most GMs will simply stack it with your natural claw damage.

The Beast Claws feat is only useful if you have Improved Unarmed Strike and a very high BAB (11+) so you can get 3+ attacks per round (more if you have Flurry or Snap Kick).

Also note that if you make any Attacks of Opportunity on the same round after you activate your Eldritch Claws, you do full Eldritch Claw damage with the AoO.

Also remember that your Eldritch Claws are a Melee Attack roll, not a Touch Attack.

[Gruftzwerg]

I get that he'd get two claw attacks - but do they each get an Eldritch Blast if they both hit? Or is it just one Eldritch blast even if both hit?

the warlock gets " Eldritch Claws"
and each does the same dmg: unarmed + Eldritch Blast

unless you fully optimize for it (see suggested build), it should't break the game. Remember that each d6 is an average of +3.5 dmg. A Barb with a 2h weapon as ubercharger and an Eldritch Claws/Beast Strike optimized build and both will deal the same amount of dmg.

Depending on your optimization lvl of your group, 3.5 tends to get Rocket Tag at higher lvls, sooner or later. And thus in most groups are high dmg/1hit builds not uncommon.

But if you play on a lower optimization lvl and everybody else is just going for fluff and have no real combat synergy in their builds, you could think about tuning it down. But I wouldn't suggest it. Cause there are other ways for high dmg synergy too. And unless you bann high dmg optimization overall at your table, you should just let him have it and see the results yourself.

[KillianHawkeye]

So I get he can attack with both Eldritch Claws - but if he hits with both, can he deal Eldritch Blast damage twice? That'd end up being something like 12d6 at this point if he did.

Yes.

Some people in our group think it's too overpowered that way.

It really isn't.

Compare 12d6 to an adjacent enemy to what a Wizard of your level can do. A simple fireball spell will do 10d6 damage at a range of 800 feet and will probably hit at least three enemies (effectively becoming like 30d6 or more if you count them individually). Even if they all make their Saving Throws, that's still more damage than you're dishing out (unless they have Evasion, but that's relatively rare).

[TheFurith]

Some people in our group think it's too overpowered that way.

I usually use the rogue as a baseline for how overpowered something is. If it can't out damage a rogue, it's not overpowered. Rogue at that level does 15d6 bonus sneak damage. And should have the things to always sneak attack. So 12d6 isn't overpowered.

I'm curious to know what the rest of the party is playing that they think that's just too strong.

[Waker]

And of course you are playing a d6HD class relegated to wearing light armor with medium BAB progression. If you get into range and manage to hit your target, you are absolutely entitled to that damage.

[Necroticplague]

1. Eldritch Blast doesn't have a 1/round limit. If you find a way to get multiple standard actions, you can fire off multiple Eldritch Blasts in a round.
2. Your Eldritch Claws aren't Eldritch Blasts, they just add the damage of the blasts to the claw's damage. So no Blast Shapes or Essences, or turning the Blast into something else (like a Hellfire Blast), because you aren't using it.
3. In terms of damage, this isn't remotely overpowered. Unless you double down with things like Beast Strike+GMW, it's behind a dual-wielding rogue.
4. What would the alternative be? You hit with your first claw, do EB+UAS damage, hit with your second, it does....?